Social housing for non-EU nationals queried

zenno · 12-02-2012 08:02AM #1

Well what do you think of this ?.

I could never understand why the past and current government gave houses to non E.U nationals, sure brazil is not in the E.U as we all know unless you were living under a meteorite crater, and houses for all while there are thousands of people here living on the streets of Ireland.

Source: http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-3004444.html

Tuesday January 31 2012 I haven't seen it posted here or any comments to it even though it's 12 days old.

A REPORT that reveals 70 different nationalities on Fingal's social housing lists has led one councillor to question why the local authority offers housing support to non-EU citizens.
Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison has raised questions about Ireland's social housing policy after it was revealed that Fingal County Council were housing up to 70 different nationalities, many from outside the EU. Cllr. Dennison said: 'It was only when I was elected to the council that I realised we were housing people from all over the world. 'I can understand our obligation to provide for EU citizens who have been working here but I do question why we are providing social housing for the rest of the world.'
The councillor said that this year Fingal will spend €40m maintaining its 4,465 social housing units and administering a growing waiting list that now stand at 8,572. More than half those on the list are from outside Ireland with non-eu nationals accounting for 26 per cent of the total.
Despite efforts to reduce the list through various leasing schemes and voluntary housing initiatives, the housing list has grown by 26 per cent over the last two years, according to the Fine Gael councillor. With no new houses being built, local authorities are relying on the Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS) in which units are leased from private landlords and then rented to those on the housing list. Since its inception in 2006, over 700 units have been leased in Fingal but the uptake by landlords has been slower than expected.
Suggesting too much is spent on rent supplement, Cllr. Dennison said: ' This (the low uptake of RAS) is because landlords can get higher rents from tenants on rent supplement than from a local authority that will drive a harder bargain under the RAS scheme. 'Figures provided to me by the HSE last year revealed that over €520m was spent nationally on rent supplement, accounting for half of all residential rents in Ireland. 'Recent changes announced by the Minister for Social protection, Joan Burton will cut this by €22m or a mere five per cent.'

More than half those on the list are from outside Ireland with non-eu nationals accounting for 26 per cent of the total.

Mike 1972 · 12-02-2012 09:49AM

zenno wrote: »

Well what do you think of this ?

Badly written one-sided article appealing to the rabble rabble/im not racist but/tis a disgrace joe brigade. In short -move along not much to see here.

stoneill · 12-02-2012 09:56AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Badly written article appealing to the rabble rabble/im not racist but/tis a disgrace joe brigade. In short -move along not much to see here.

Actually - it's a valid question.
The OP didn't write the article, so doesn't matter how badly written it is.
The question remains - should Ireland be providing social housing for no-EU citizens?
My opinion is that all people should be provided with a basic dwelling, there should never be a case of a person living on the streets no mater what nationality or immigration status. However, how does the priority list work. How does a person from Brazil say get a social house over a person on a waiting list living in an overcrowded situation with their mother on Cappagh Road for example?

zenno · 12-02-2012 09:58AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Badly written one-sided article appealing to the rabble rabble/im not racist but/tis a disgrace joe brigade. In short -move along not much to see here.

Typical under the cover comment with nothing constructive to add.

Ellis Dee · 12-02-2012 10:00AM

The idea with social housing is to provide it for legally resident people - irrespective of nationality - on the basis of need. Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison seems to overlook the fact that we are living in a globalised world and I suspect he is only trying to curry favour with the xenophobic envy-monger lobby.:)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't at the same time one of the Blueshirt reactionary Catholic wing who, led by Lucy Cretin, are demanding that we continue to spend millions on an embassy in that comic-opera (and non-EU) statelet the Vatican.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mike 1972 · 12-02-2012 10:04AM

stoneill wrote: »

Actually - it's a valid question.
The OP didn't write the article, so doesn't matter how badly written it is.
?

The OP posted an article and invited people to comment. It is therfore perfectly reasonable to point out that the rehashed press release article looks like the work of a five year old in the throes of heroin withdrawl.

stoneill wrote: »

The question remains - should Ireland be providing social housing for no-EU citizens?

Ireland should be providing social housing for anyone resident in the state who requires it and were the level of provision to be adequete then priority wouldnt be much of an issue.

ResearchWill · 12-02-2012 10:16AM

With all the talk of fake asylum seekers it is forgotten that some non eu nationals coming here are in fact reconised refugees, some are what are called programe refugees that is people from say a refugee camp being relocated by the UN. Ireland signed up for the rights and responsibilities of the UN charter on refugees. When a person has a declaration of refugee status he or she is entitled to everything an Irish citizen is entitled to. In many cases they would go to the top of any housing list because of their personal circumstances.

A person awaiting refugees status, is usually housed in hostels in most cases a family per room, or 3 to 4 persons per room. Some are lucky depending on the quality of accommodation and get a single room. They are provide with 3 meals a day and €19 a week for personal expences.

Also the report seems to be talking about the waiting list, rather than persons actually housed.

Eleganza · 12-02-2012 10:56AM

Used to live in Fingal until last year in a private estate on the edge of a hell hole social housing estate. In our block of 8 apartments we were all owner occupiers paying hefty mortgages with the exception of one apartment which was being let out. Sudanese family moved in to our block of apartments about 3years earlier.
The man of the Sudanese family never worked during that time, couldn't speak a word of English with no intention of learning how, watched Sudanese TV via satellite while the rest of us were dragging ourselves out of bed every day to go to work. Anyhow, time passes and one day a van comes and moves them out. It turns out the County council have given them a house in another part of Fingal while we all still remain anchored to our mortgages. They'd given them a proper house with a garden. That was a luxury we couldn't even hope to aspire to and myself and my neighbours were left quizzical as to what was the point of even trying to provide for oneself when Fingal co. co. are so generous to others.
Frankly I have no idea how they managed to get from Sudan to Ireland because there are no direct flights, If they were claiming refugee status they should have claimed this in the European country they passed through to get to the promised land that is Ireland.
Social housing policy in Fingal is a joke.
Tyrrellstown in Fingal is more Nigerian than Irish with the numbers of Houses that Fingal have bought or rented up there.
Simultaneously while dealing the anti-social behaviour overspilling out from social housing estates in Fingal, working people see those who chose not to work or contribute to society being given better accommodation that they can afford for themselves.
I gave up on Ireland as a country because of this and the banker bailouts and move to Germany. I sold up and I took my job with me. They can pursue what ever misguided social housing policy they like but I for one will not pay for it.

Chinasea · 12-02-2012 11:04AM

what a lovely article. Yet another ball bounced for the racist mobs to pick up and run with.

OP, have you ever stopped to think how your ancestors’ i.e. refugees must have felt when they fled on coffin ships looking to start a new life.

Make up your mind, you don't want to house non EU nationals but it would appear you worry about the thousands of people living on our streets that might get housed.

I remember when we had a small amount of Bosnians moving to Ireland and all we heard was 'all the Bosnians are getting the houses'. I have yet to meet one.

OP, Just have a look at the amount of foreign families who have had bricks thrown to their windows and much much worse, and then ask yourself by perpetrating shameful rhetoric like this, if you sir, have blood on your hands?

Mike 1972 · 12-02-2012 11:10AM

Eleganza wrote: »

I gave up on Ireland as a country because of this and the banker bailouts and move to Germany.

Right place wrong time !

hawkelady · 12-02-2012 11:13AM

Chinasea wrote: »

what a lovely article. Yet another ball bounced for the racist mobs to pick up and run with.

OP, have you ever stopped to think how your ancestors’ i.e. refugees must have felt when they fled on coffin ships looking to start a new life.

Make up your mind, you don't want to house non EU nationals but it would appear you worry about the thousands of people living on our streets that might get housed.

I remember when we had a small amount of Bosnians moving to Ireland and all we heard was 'all the Bosnians are getting the houses'. I have yet to meet one.

OP, Just have a look at the amount of foreign families who have had bricks thrown to their windows and much much worse, and then ask yourself by perpetrating shameful rhetoric like this, if you sir, have blood on your hands?

Please it's Sunday morning!! Your last sentence made me laugh. I'm having a roast chicken for dinner later, do I have blood on my hands?? For the love of god, please think of the chickens!!!

Eleganza · 12-02-2012 11:19AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Right place wrong time !

Right place, right time. It's a functioning cohesive society while Ireland is not where everyone is expected to pull their weight but treated fairly.

ResearchWill · 12-02-2012 11:26AM

Eleganza wrote: »

Used to live in Fingal until last year in a private estate on the edge of a hell hole social housing estate. In our block of 8 apartments we were all owner occupiers paying hefty mortgages with the exception of one apartment which was being let out. Sudanese family moved in to our block of apartments about 3years earlier.
The man of the Sudanese family never worked during that time, couldn't speak a word of English with no intention of learning how, watched Sudanese TV via satellite while the rest of us were dragging ourselves out of bed every day to go to work. Anyhow, time passes and one day a van comes and moves them out. It turns out the County council have given them a house in another part of Fingal while we all still remain anchored to our mortgages. They'd given them a proper house with a garden. That was a luxury we couldn't even hope to aspire to and myself and my neighbours were left quizzical as to what was the point of even trying to provide for oneself when Fingal co. co. are so generous to others.
Frankly I have no idea how they managed to get from Sudan to Ireland because there are no direct flights, If they were claiming refugee status they should have claimed this in the European country they passed through to get to the promised land that is Ireland.
Social housing policy in Fingal is a joke.
Tyrrellstown in Fingal is more Nigerian than Irish with the numbers of Houses that Fingal have bought or rented up there.
Simultaneously while dealing the anti-social behaviour overspilling out from social housing estates in Fingal, working people see those who chose not to work or contribute to society being given better accommodation that they can afford for themselves.
I gave up on Ireland as a country because of this and the banker bailouts and move to Germany. I sold up and I took my job with me. They can pursue what ever misguided social housing policy they like but I for one will not pay for it.

Did you ever think that Sedanese family never wanted to come to Ireland. From what little I know a number of the Sudanese in Ireland that are refugees are what are called UN programe refugees. That means in a camp in Arica a UN official decided to send a family to Ireland. Did you ever stop to think what that person went through if he was in fact one of those refugees. What horrors he and his family lived through and saw.

Is it right To want to force him and his family to learn English, when for him that will mean his dream of going home is over. Did you ever ask could anyone translate so you could have heard his story. His dreams of returning to his business or farm or job. The home they left, maybe it was burned, or stolen by the army. You see I don't know that family's story but it seems neither do you.

Some background reading.

http://www.unhcr.ie/news/irish-story/unhcrs-visit-to-kilkenny-to-meet-resettled-sudanese-refugees

Eleganza · 12-02-2012 11:53AM

did you ever stop to think that you are a bleeding heart that is being manipulated left, right and centre exploiting your psychological need to think yourself emphatic and decent than all others around you. Don't lecture me. I'm as able as the next to feel sympathy and compassion but I grew sick of being the schmoo that was paying for all the poor mouthers.
And BTW I came to the rescue of that Sudanese man when he was about to be kicked in to the ground by the scum from the neighbouring social housing estate when he interuptted them breaking in to his car.
You are no better a person than me; you are just misguided.

Eleganza · 12-02-2012 11:57AM

ResearchWill wrote: »

Is it right To want to force him and his family to learn English, when for him that will mean his dream of going home is over. Did you ever ask could anyone translate so you could have heard his story. His dreams of returning to his business or farm or job. The home they left, maybe it was burned, or stolen by the army. You see I don't know that family's story but it seems neither do you.

Some background reading.

http://www.unhcr.ie/news/irish-story/unhcrs-visit-to-kilkenny-to-meet-resettled-sudanese-refugees

I've learned German. I expect it of myself and it is expected of me by my hosts.
His wife had learned english and I spoke to her regularly. He had no inclination to learn.

Jump to conclusions all you want. You are obviously an extremely prejudiced pompous ass and I'm out of this discussion.

mod: poster banned

Mike 1972 · 12-02-2012 12:09PM

prejudiced eh ?

Ellis Dee · 12-02-2012 12:11PM

Eleganza wrote: »

I've learned German --- I'm out of this discussion.

Gut, dass wir Dich los sind!:):):)

ResearchWill · 12-02-2012 12:12PM

Eleganza wrote: »

I've learned German. I expect it of myself and it is expected of me by my hosts.
His wife had learned english and I spoke to her regularly. He had no inclination to learn.

Jump to conclusions all you want. You are obviously an extremely prejudiced pompous ass and I'm out of this discussion.

Where is my prejudices or where did I jump to conclusions, I said I did not know the family history, I said it may have been possible that this family was a programe refugee situation in response to your statement how did they get to Ireland, as there are no direct flights. If you spoke to the wife then you know how they got her as I assume you asked her.

You are the one who has all the info about the situation not me. I put forward one of many possible stories in relation to the family. If you want to react the way you are that's fine by me.

TwoShedsJackson · 12-02-2012 12:20PM

Eleganza wrote: »

Used to live in Fingal until last year in a private estate on the edge of a hell hole social housing estate. In our block of 8 apartments we were all owner occupiers paying hefty mortgages with the exception of one apartment which was being let out. Sudanese family moved in to our block of apartments about 3years earlier.
The man of the Sudanese family never worked during that time, couldn't speak a word of English with no intention of learning how, watched Sudanese TV via satellite while the rest of us were dragging ourselves out of bed every day to go to work. Anyhow, time passes and one day a van comes and moves them out. It turns out the County council have given them a house in another part of Fingal while we all still remain anchored to our mortgages. They'd given them a proper house with a garden. That was a luxury we couldn't even hope to aspire to and myself and my neighbours were left quizzical as to what was the point of even trying to provide for oneself when Fingal co. co. are so generous to others.
Frankly I have no idea how they managed to get from Sudan to Ireland because there are no direct flights, If they were claiming refugee status they should have claimed this in the European country they passed through to get to the promised land that is Ireland.
Social housing policy in Fingal is a joke.
Tyrrellstown in Fingal is more Nigerian than Irish with the numbers of Houses that Fingal have bought or rented up there.
Simultaneously while dealing the anti-social behaviour overspilling out from social housing estates in Fingal, working people see those who chose not to work or contribute to society being given better accommodation that they can afford for themselves.
I gave up on Ireland as a country because of this and the banker bailouts and move to Germany. I sold up and I took my job with me. They can pursue what ever misguided social housing policy they like but I for one will not pay for it.

So were you forced to take on this mortgage then? Someone made you take it out at gunpoint?

No, you decided to yoke yourself to a no doubt ridiculous mortgage on the edge of some hellhole in Finglas. Nice decision making.

Sonnenblumen · 12-02-2012 12:29PM

Eleganza wrote: »

Right place, right time. It's a functioning cohesive society while Ireland is not where everyone is expected to pull their weight but treated fairly.

Cohesive? You're joking? Some gems to prove it include Ruhr Gebiet, Duisburg, Mannheim, Koeln, Frankfurt, Magdeburg, Rostock, Halle, und und und und:(

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:30PM

Don't care what nationality anyone is. The ACTUAL disgrace is that the Government is paying out this money in the first instance Rent supplement should be capped at a low rate. Landlords will be damn glad to take whatever's on offer.

The whole rent supplement scheme should be reviewed anyway. What is the point in giving €600 to an 18 year-old unmarried mother, when she could live at home with her parents? Must the State take responsibility for EVERYTHING?

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:32PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

So were you forced to take on this mortgage then? Someone made you take it out at gunpoint?

No, you decided to yoke yourself to a no doubt ridiculous mortgage on the edge of some hellhole in Finglas. Nice decision making.

Lovely. I hope you're always this smug. The real poor in this country nowadays are the young families weighed down with a mortgage, not the SW freeloaders. Many not even from the EU, as has already been pointed out.

It's interesting that Councils can ret out houses in private estates anyway. If you want to open ashop, business, etc in a private estate you must obtain planning permission. Yet the Council can open lodging houses willy nilly, answerable to no-one. What a country.

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:35PM

ResearchWill wrote: »

Did you ever think that Sedanese family never wanted to come to Ireland. From what little I know a number of the Sudanese in Ireland that are refugees are what are called UN programe refugees. That means in a camp in Arica a UN official decided to send a family to Ireland. Did you ever stop to think what that person went through if he was in fact one of those refugees. What horrors he and his family lived through and saw.

Is it right To want to force him and his family to learn English, when for him that will mean his dream of going home is over. Did you ever ask could anyone translate so you could have heard his story. His dreams of returning to his business or farm or job. The home they left, maybe it was burned, or stolen by the army. You see I don't know that family's story but it seems neither do you.

Some background reading.

http://www.unhcr.ie/news/irish-story/unhcrs-visit-to-kilkenny-to-meet-resettled-sudanese-refugees

Hmm. Is there a contact number we can dial to verify the veracity of these people's 'stories'? Thought not.

Gummy Panda · 12-02-2012 12:35PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

So were you forced to take on this mortgage then? Someone made you take it out at gunpoint?

No, you decided to yoke yourself to a no doubt ridiculous mortgage on the edge of some hellhole in Finglas. Nice decision making.

Lovely. I hope you're always this smug. The real poor in this country nowadays are the young families weighed down with a mortgage, not the SW freeloaders. Many not even from the EU, as has already been pointed out.

It's interesting that Councils can ret out houses in private estates anyway. If you want to open ashop, business, etc in a private estate you must obtain planning permission. Yet the Council can open lodging houses willy nilly, answerable to no-one. What a country.

They're right though. No one forced them to buy there

TwoShedsJackson · 12-02-2012 12:36PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Lovely. I hope you're always this smug. The real poor in this country nowadays are the young families weighed down with a mortgage, not the SW freeloaders. Many not even from the EU, as has already been pointed out.

It's interesting that Councils can ret out houses in private estates anyway. If you want to open ashop, business, etc in a private estate you must obtain planning permission. Yet the Council can open lodging houses willy nilly, answerable to no-one. What a country.

Smugness? He posted as if he had been forced to live on the edge of 'a hellhole social housing estate'. He wasn't, he was living there by choice.

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:38PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

They're right though. No one forced them to buy there

I wouldn't disagree. But these people paid a premium in the shape of a mortgage to live in a nice area, and were not burdening the state looking for a house. And are, in effect, discriminated against for doing so.

Freddie59 · 12-02-2012 12:39PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Smugness? He posted as if he had been forced to live on the edge of 'a hellhole social housing estate'. He wasn't, he was living there by choice.

Because he probably could afford nothing else. At least he was paying for it - unlike those poor Somalis....

ResearchWill · 12-02-2012 12:58PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Hmm. Is there a contact number we can dial to verify the veracity of these people's 'stories'? Thought not.

While there may not be a telephone number, if as I suspect the family in question are programe refugees then the truth of their story has been assessed in Sudan, by the United Nations.

If we are talking about Asylum claims in general, yes that is a different story, with about 10% of claims being upheld. Meaning that 90% of claims are not real claims for asylum. But in reality the Asylum issue is not really an issue anymore as claims have fallen from a peak of about 12000 a year to less than 2000 last year and still dropping.

El Horseboxo · 12-02-2012 01:03PM

With a lot of those new estates that popped up in the mid 2000's you would of had no idea how an estate would turn out. I've a friend that bought a house with his girlfriend in the Fingal back then. New estate and was grand at first. But a certain percentage of them were welfare housing or whatever it's called here. They must have took the biggest scum bag families from around and moved them in cause the place is now a kip. It wasn't a bad area beforehand. Just turned into one. Point being you can just have bad luck with some of those estates.

biko · 12-02-2012 01:21PM

Chinasea wrote: »

what a lovely article. Yet another ball bounced for the racist mobs to pick up and run with. OP, Just have a look at the amount of foreign families who have had bricks thrown to their windows and much much worse, and then ask yourself by perpetrating shameful rhetoric like this, if you sir, have blood on your hands?

The usual 2 responses from the opposition.
"If you mention any negative aspects of immigration you are racist" and the attempt to vilify: "Are you a brick throwing nazi sympathiser?"

You guys just want to keep discussion censored, don't you understand by doing that you will only frustrate people more and this is what leads to stone throwing and sites like stormfront, because you want to censor discussion in open forums?

44leto · 12-02-2012 01:28PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The idea with social housing is to provide it for legally resident people - irrespective of nationality - on the basis of need. Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison seems to overlook the fact that we are living in a globalised world and I suspect he is only trying to curry favour with the xenophobic envy-monger lobby.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't at the same time one of the Blueshirt reactionary Catholic wing who, led by Lucy Cretin, are demanding that we continue to spend millions on an embassy in that comic-opera (and non-EU) statelet the Vatican.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The councillor said that this year Fingal will spend €40m maintaining its 4,465 social housing units and administering a growing waiting list that now stand at 8,572. More than half those on the list are from outside Ireland with non-eu nationals accounting for 26 per cent of the total.

I am not familiar with waiting list policy, but for a very small minority who are non EU residents 26% is a huge percentage of the total waiting list, a percentage that makes you wonder how and reason something is not right.

So "if" 26% is a true figure the counselor has a right to ask that question without being loosely referred to or called a rabble rousing racist by your post. I am definately not a racist and I am asking the same question.

Social housing for non-EU nationals queried

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