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If you drink alcohol, yet you are against other drugs...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Heroin is not a filthy drug. It is one the best drugs ever discovered. Has an absolutely brilliant effect on the body, with NO side effects.
    Too bad that's all completely incorrect.

    Even medicinal grade Heroin (and most other opioids like codeine or morphine) do have side effects and fairly significant ones at that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Too bad that's all completely incorrect.

    Even medicinal grade Heroin (and most other opioids like codeine or morphine) do have side effects and fairly significant ones at that.
    Your right they have side effects, a dicky stomach for a week and amazing pain relief... its f**king terrible joe.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 730 ✭✭✭gosuckonalemon


    Too bad that's all completely incorrect.

    Even medicinal grade Heroin (and most other opioids like codeine or morphine) do have side effects and fairly significant ones at that.

    Bit of constipation, that's about it. OD by respiratory depression.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭BunShopVoyeur


    jimpump wrote: »
    explain...

    cocaine is used in dentistry

    heroin,cannabis are used to relieve pain

    only thing alcohol does is maybe clean a wound and damage your liver


    Cannabis is also used to increase cancer patients appetites.

    Alcohol is good for your heart in moderation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Cannabis is also used to increase cancer patients appetites.

    Alcohol is good for your heart in moderation.

    Red wine especially


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Your right they have side effects, a dicky stomach for a week and amazing pain relief... its f**king terrible joe.
    Bit of constipation, that's about it. OD by respiratory depression.
    Diamorphine Hydrochloride

    Opioid analgesics share many side-effects, although qualitative and quantitative differences exist. The most common side-effects include nausea and vomiting (particularly in initial stages), constipation, dry mouth, and biliary spasm; larger doses produce muscle rigidity, hypotension, and respiratory depression (for reversal of opioid-induced respiratory depression, see section 15.1.7). Other common side-effects of opioid analgesics include bradycardia, tachycardia, palpitation, oedema, postural hypotension, hallucinations, vertigo, euphoria, dysphoria, mood changes, dependence, dizziness, confusion, drowsiness, sleep disturbances, headache, sexual dysfunction, difficulty with micturition, urinary retention, ureteric spasm, miosis, visual disturbances, sweating, flushing, rash, urticaria, and pruritus. Overdosage: see Emergency Treatment of Poisoning.

    Long term use of opioids can cause hypogonadism and adrenal insufficiency in both men and women. This is thought to be dose related and can lead to amenorrhoea, reduced libido, infertility, depression, and erectile dysfunction. Long-term use of opioid analgesics has also been associated with a state of abnormal pain sensitivity (hyperalgesia). Pain associated with hyperalgesia is usually distinct from pain associated with disease progression or breakthrough pain, and is often more diffuse and less defined. Treatment of hyperalgesia involves reducing the dose of opioid medication or switching therapy; cases of suspected hyperalgesia should be referred to a specialist pain team.

    The BNF suggests otherwise. But don't let that put you off. I'm sure those Pharmacists and Clinicians are nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced with drugs as the good people of After Hours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    The BNF suggests otherwise. But don't let that put you off. I'm sure those Pharmacists and Clinicians are nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced with drugs as the good people of After Hours.
    Back pain; constipation; dizziness; drowsiness; dry mouth; headache; increased appetite; light-headedness; nausea; runny or stuffy nose; sluggishness; sore throat; stomach pain or upset; tiredness; vomiting; weakness; weight gain.
    Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); confusion; difficult or painful urination; fainting; fast, slow, or irregular heartbeat; fever, chills, or persistent sore throat; hallucinations; increased saliva production or drooling; increased sweating; memory loss; menstrual changes; muscle pain, stiffness, or weakness; new or worsening mental or mood changes (eg, aggressiveness, agitation, anxiety, depression, exaggerated feeling of well-being, hostility, impulsiveness, inability to sit still, irritability, panic attacks, restlessness); numbness, burning, or tingling; persistent, painful erection; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; seizures; severe or prolonged dizziness, light-headedness, or headache; shortness of breath; suicidal thoughts or actions; swelling of the hands, legs, or feet; symptoms of high blood sugar (eg, increased thirst, hunger, or urination; unusual weakness); tremor; trouble concentrating, speaking, or swallowing; trouble sleeping; trouble walking or standing; uncontrolled muscle movements (eg, arm or leg movements, jerking or twisting, twitching of the face or tongue); vision changes.

    That is the side effects of the drug I have to take 400mg of everyday should it be aken of the market too?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Back pain; constipation; dizziness; drowsiness; dry mouth; headache; increased appetite; light-headedness; .....
    That is the side effects of the drug I have to take 400mg of everyday should it be aken of the market too?
    The drug you're taking (S***q**l if i'm not mistaken) has been prescribed and dispensed to you by qualified professionals. You can't just pop in to your local supermarket and decide to buy it.

    The same goes for drugs like heroin and cocaine. They may not be readily used in Ireland but similarly powerful drugs are commonly used to manage pain. Just because said powerful drugs aren't available for consumers to purchase on a whim doesn't mean they've been taken off the market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    I get your point, but maybe we should be taking junkies of the street and giving them morphine instead of methadone. It would be cheaper for the state and less hazardes as methadone is extremly addictive and kills more people than heroin also its nothing like heroin and most junkies dont like methadone and just sell it to get heroin anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Seachmall wrote: »
    In Canada (Vancouver I believe) they had a huge heroin problem, after years of simply enforcing stricter and stricter laws they decided to take an alternative approach. They opened needle exchange programs as well as clinics for users to shoot up in. They essentially decriminalized heroin use.

    They saw a drop in crime, a drop in HIV/AIDS, a drop in addicts overdosing, and a drop in the number of addicts in general. Users had direct access to nurses who worked in the clinic and had direct access to rehab facilities and programs. Money was saved in not prosecuting users who shot up in the clinics and because of clean syringes and water the hospitals weren't full of users who had gotten infections or were being diagnosed with diseases.

    Politicians didn't like it of course, they see it as condoning drug use, but the objective facts are there. Regulating and monitoring drug use is better for everyone involved. It saves money and it saves lives.

    So, "Would it be wise to suggest a guideline as opposed to a 'Say no to Drugs' campaign?"

    Yes. But people don't like to think it would be. People are blinded by opinion and bias. The biggest problem with drug use is not the users, it's the public and the lawmakers.

    Edit - Links
    The project even has a website.
    A brief write-up on it.

    Latin America on the way to full decriminalization now as well....

    BUENOS AIRES – Latin America is headed towards the decriminalization of drug possession for personal consumption, according to experts and officials who took part in a regional conference in Buenos Aires.

    Those attending the 1st Latin American Conference on Drug Policy, which ended Friday, also said that legislative reforms are being designed to give smaller sentences “to small traffickers, and to create policies that minimize harm” by encouraging addicts who can’t quit to come into the health system.

    They also warned that the war on drugs “did not achieve its goal,” since Bolivia, Peru and Colombia, which together produce all the cocaine in the world, “could not manage in 10 years to reduce the area under cultivation,” according to a communique released at the end of the meeting, sponsored by the Pan-American Health Organization.

    Brazilian lawmaker Paulo Teixeira said that his country’s current anti-drug law “increases the harm to users, because once in jail they get involved with organized crime.”

    The legislator, originator of Brazil’s first bill to “reduce the harm” of drug consumption, presented a study saying that 84 percent of those sentenced between 2006-2008 for drug possession in that country were not armed and 50 percent of those convicted for marijuana trafficking had less than 100 grams (1/2 ounce) of the substance.

    Teixeira said that the ruling Workers Party will submit a bill next month that establishes “a democratic model” for drugs, with the legalization of consumption, alternative penalties for small-scale drug dealing, the inclusion of a strategy for harm reduction and authorization for growing and marketing marijuana in small quantities.

    For her part, Ecuador’s deputy planning secretary, Michelle Artieda, said that her country is in the process of debating a drug bill that modifies the current legislation, which dates back to 1992 and “violates the principle of legality.”

    During the meeting, organized by the Argentine association Intercambios, the Ecuadorian official said that many of those detained in her country on drug charges “were carrying less than 2 kilos (4 1/2 pounds)” of narcotics.

    Artieda also spoke about Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa’s decision to pardon 2,221 people who were arrested for carrying small amounts of drugs and those known as “mules.”

    Dionicio Nuñez Tangara, coordinador of the Bolivian Coca and Sovereignty organization, regretted that under his country’s existing legislation, “coca-leaf growers are the same as drug traffickers,” and went into detail about the Evo Morales government’s initiative to industrialize the growing of that plant.

    Bolivian law permits the cultivation of 12,000 hectares (29,629 acres) of coca for legal traditional uses, and a similar arrangement prevails in neighboring Peru.

    Bolivian President Evo Morales, an Aymara Indian who rose to prominence as the leader of a coca-growers union, came to office in January 2006 pledging to redirect anti-drug efforts from coca eradication to cocaine interdiction.

    Meanwhile Peruvian expert Hugo Cabieses warned that “under the pretext of a war on drugs, the borders of the region’s countries are being militarized.”

    “In 1992 the hectares (acres) of coca grown in Peru, Bolivia and Colombia were 11,500 (28,395), but by 2004 they had been reduced to 11,000 (27,160). These plans (to militarize borders) do not expand democracy, they restrict it,” he said.

    The Argentine government defended Thursday the legalization of drug possession for personal consumption and said that it awaits “almost impatiently” a verdict by the Supreme Court that would make criminal punishment for a drug user unconstitutional.

    Legislative reforms in the matter of drug use sparked controversy in several Latin American countries, the region that leads the world in cocaine production.

    The conference, held at the seat of the Argentine Congress, was also sponsored by the British and Dutch Embassies in Buenos Aires, as well as by the Latin American Initiative on Drugs and Democracy.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 730 ✭✭✭gosuckonalemon


    The BNF suggests otherwise. But don't let that put you off. I'm sure those Pharmacists and Clinicians are nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced with drugs as the good people of After Hours.

    SPC of Ibuprofen:




    Aseptic meningitis


    Haematopoietic disorders (anaemia, hemolytic anemia, aplastic anemia), leucopenia, thrombocytopenia, pancytopenia, agranulocytosis). First signs are: fever, sore throat, superficial mouth ulcers, flu-like symptoms, severe exhaustion, nose and skin bleeding.


    Hypersensitivity reactions with urticaria and pruritus.


    In patients with existing auto-immune disorders (such as systemic lupus erythematosus, mixed connective tissue disease) during treatment with ibuprofen, single cases of symptoms of aseptic meningitis, such as stiff neck, headache, nausea, vomiting, fever or disorientation have been observed.
    Severe hypersensitivity reactions. Symptoms could be: facial, tongue and larynx swelling, dyspnoea, tachycardia, hypotension, (anaphylaxis, angioedema or severe shock).
    Exacerbation of asthma and bronchospasm.


    Nervousness


    Headache


    Visual disturbance


    Tinnitus and vertigo


    Cardiac failure


    Hypertension


    Asthma, broncospasm, dyspnoea and wheezing


    Abdominal pain, abdominal distension, dyspepsia and nausea.


    Diarrhoea, flatulence, constipation and vomiting.


    Peptic ulcer, perforation or gastrointestinal haemorrhage, melaena, haematemesis, sometimes fatal, particularly in the elderly (see section 4.4). Exacerbation of ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease (see section 4.4). Mouth ulceration.


    Liver disorders, especially in long-term treatment, hepatitis and jaundice.


    Various skin rashes.


    Severe forms of skin reactions such as bullous reactions, including Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, erythema multiforme and toxic epidermal necrolysis can occur.


    Acute renal failure, papillary necrosis, especially in long-term use, associated with increased serum urea and oedema. Haematuria, interstitial nephritis, nephritic syndrome, proteinuria


    Oedema, peripheral oedema.


    Decreased hematocrit and hemoglobin levels.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 730 ✭✭✭gosuckonalemon


    The BNF suggests otherwise. But don't let that put you off. I'm sure those Pharmacists and Clinicians are nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced with drugs as the good people of After Hours.

    Those side effects occur after chronic use, usually at high doses.

    No more or less than inbuprofen as I listed above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Those side effects occur after chronic use, usually at high doses.

    No more or less than inbuprofen as I listed above.
    Who enlightened to you to this fact? Or are you just having a guess? Last time I checked, SPCs weren't toxicology reports. If it was as simple as looking at an SPC then the world of medicines would be a lot of simpler.

    Chronic use of an NSAID like Ibuprofen (At normal doses following the instructions of a Pharmacist/Doctor) might lead to gastritis and at worst a stomach ulcer. People who take very high overdoses or already have impaired renal/hepatic function might also experience (Usually reversible) renal or hepatic complications. All in all, if a person follows their Pharmacist/Doctor's advice the likelihood of them severely damaging themselves with an NSAID are minimal. The main reason that NSAIDs are allowed to be sold unprescribed and not necessarily under the supervision of a Pharmacist is due to their remarkably low toxicity. Permanent damage is possible but very unlikely to occur unless someone knowingly overdoses. Considering the normal maximum daily dose for Ibuprofen is 3200mg and the LD50 for a rat (Not even a human being) is 636 mg/kg the chance of someone actually dying from an Ibuprofen overdose is minimal.

    On the other hand, when Heroin is used (Primarily in palliative care for terminally ill patients) the dose and dosing schedule is tightly controlled and the patient's renal and hepatic function is usually monitored. If too large a dose is given the patient will enter a coma and could possibly suffer respiratory failure. They can also enter a coma and suffer respiratory arrest if they have impaired hepatic function. Considering the fact that Heroin is far more potent than Ibuprofen and has an LD50 of only 15mg the chances of someone dying or seriously harming themselves with Heroin are astronomical in comparison.

    There's a very good reason highly potent opiates like heroin aren't available for sale to the general public. It's the exact same reason why the vast majority of drugs available in Ireland are only available for sale when prescribed by a Doctor and/or dispensed under the supervision of a Pharmacist. They're complex drugs that need specialist care and advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,321 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Bump:

    Check out the Free Marijuana Prisoners: The Tommy Chong Story on Youtube for an interesting slant on the pro-cannabis theory, full doc upped on there. I initially linked it but realised that I could be breaking the charter.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 730 ✭✭✭gosuckonalemon


    Who enlightened to you to this fact? Or are you just having a guess? Last time I checked, SPCs weren't toxicology reports. If it was as simple as looking at an SPC then the world of medicines would be a lot of simpler.

    Chronic use of an NSAID like Ibuprofen (At normal doses following the instructions of a Pharmacist/Doctor) might lead to gastritis and at worst a stomach ulcer. People who take very high overdoses or already have impaired renal/hepatic function might also experience (Usually reversible) renal or hepatic complications. All in all, if a person follows their Pharmacist/Doctor's advice the likelihood of them severely damaging themselves with an NSAID are minimal. The main reason that NSAIDs are allowed to be sold unprescribed and not necessarily under the supervision of a Pharmacist is due to their remarkably low toxicity. Permanent damage is possible but very unlikely to occur unless someone knowingly overdoses. Considering the normal maximum daily dose for Ibuprofen is 3200mg and the LD50 for a rat (Not even a human being) is 636 mg/kg the chance of someone actually dying from an Ibuprofen overdose is minimal.

    On the other hand, when Heroin is used (Primarily in palliative care for terminally ill patients) the dose and dosing schedule is tightly controlled and the patient's renal and hepatic function is usually monitored. If too large a dose is given the patient will enter a coma and could possibly suffer respiratory failure. They can also enter a coma and suffer respiratory arrest if they have impaired hepatic function. Considering the fact that Heroin is far more potent than Ibuprofen and has an LD50 of only 15mg the chances of someone dying or seriously harming themselves with Heroin are astronomical in comparison.

    There's a very good reason highly potent opiates like heroin aren't available for sale to the general public. It's the exact same reason why the vast majority of drugs available in Ireland are only available for sale when prescribed by a Doctor and/or dispensed under the supervision of a Pharmacist. They're complex drugs that need specialist care and advice.

    You can still get nicely stoned off heroin without having to take anywhere near potentially lethal doses. Low dose, daily use will have very little long term complications.

    And max. daily ibuprofen dose of 3,200mg? Where do you get your figures. It's 1200mg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    You can still get nicely stoned off heroin without having to take anywhere near potentially lethal doses. Low dose, daily use will have very little long term complications.
    Indeed. Except perhaps addiction which will lead to tolerance which will lead to higher and higher doses which will lead to kidney/liver damage which will ultimately lead to coma/respiratory arrest and death.

    As for "low dose", i'm not quite sure what you mean. The usual normal dose is 5-10mg and that's for pure medicinal grade heroin being prepared and administered by qualified people in a controlled environment. Not people in their homes or on the street using dirty needles and dirty heroin.
    And max. daily ibuprofen dose of 3,200mg? Where do you get your figures. It's 1200mg.
    The BNF. 1200mg is the maximum dose you should take if using it for self-care. If you're being monitored, the usual maximum dose is 3200mg per day.


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