If you drink alcohol, yet you are against other drugs...

yupyup7up · 08-02-2012 05:46PM

I don't give a sh!t what anyone does as long as it doesn't cost me money, or affect me, my family or friends in anyway. Go blow cocaine up a dogs ar$e through a straw for all I care! Just make sure you don't increase the price of cans.

snowfinch · 08-02-2012 05:49PM

grazz wrote: »

They made alcohol illegal in America and it was abused by the mob and Al Capone. the prohibition of cannabis and other plants is whats causing the criminal gangs to be around. It also makes the drugs a lot more dangerous because all sorts of crap are put into them, like the mob used to put dangerous chemicals in drink to spread out the profit in the 20s and 30s. When alchohol was illegal, it funded illegal activity. People who want other recreational drugs are made to suffer while drinkers and smokers are allowed to legally carry out their habits which have been proven to cause a lot more social and health problems than drugs which are illegal.

That is why later on in the same post that you refer to I said that I was for legalisation of drugs as the money would go the state. I have no interest in what other people do with their health. I agree if alcohol were illegal it would fund criminals and criminal activity in which case I wouldn't touch it either.

Cú Giobach · 08-02-2012 07:04PM

xflyer wrote: »

Alcohol is a known quantity learned over the millenia. We know what happens when it's abused. For all the others, everyone of you indulging in a spliff or whatever are undertaking a giant experiment because no one really knows the effect it will have on you.

Ah come on now.

Cannabis use 3,000 years, Opium use 4,000 years, and they are just the numbers we have actual evidence of.
Closer to home, every year many of our lovely fields fill up with a very nice type of Mushroom, and another very interesting one which has been used in shamanistic rituals for thousands of years can be found in our woods, so no doubt the Túatha De Danann or Fir Bolg were using these little gems.

Basically people have been using all sorts of drugs for millennia and an extremely recent ban isn't going to change what seems to be an innate human desire to get of our heads.

jimpump · 08-02-2012 08:31PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Are you actually comparing drinking alcohol to using herion, cocaine...ect....

The thing is, OP, most if not the majority of people can enjoy a causal few drinks out and not descend into alcoholism.

Yet the majority of heroin users effectively destroy their own lives and others. Correct me if I'm wrong. Alcoholism is terrible and for those who turn into alcoholics, its devestating, but most people can enjoy alcohol safely, bar some who cant.

The use of hard drugs like Heroin have immediate disasterous results on someone. And the studies of cocaine ect.....have proven results of mental disorders occuring due to its usage.

So no, it's not hypocritical. Alcohol has been deemed safe to consume as long as you adhere to the guidelines in place on how much you consume. But considering how addictive Heroin and other hard drugs are, there is a reason why they are not legal.

So is it really that shocking that someone might look down on a person who has destroyed their life with heroin when its been made perfectly clear how destructive the drug is. People who are alcoholics aren't exactly looked at as nicely either. The fact is, people look down at how people have abused something to the extent that their lives are ruined. So naturally, why would you begrudge someone enjoying one glass of wine or a beer ect. If heroin ect could be enjoyed safely without serious consequences, it would be exactly the same. but the fact is, its not.

you couldnt be so wrong

there are plenty of 'casual' heroin users out there as well who only use it the odd time, much like people just going for a few pints at the weekend

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-02-2012 08:37PM

jimpump wrote: »

you couldnt be so wrong

there are plenty of 'casual' heroin users out there as well who only use it the odd time, much like people just going for a few pints at the weekend

Heroin is a chemical addiction though and over time recreational use manifests into dependency. It differs from alcohol and tobacco as every heroin addict reaches a stage where stopping use suddenly could kill them, hence recovery treatment consists of been weaned off the drug with the use of methadone etc.

jimpump · 08-02-2012 08:42PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Heroin is a chemical addiction though and over time recreational use manifests into dependency. It differs from alcohol and tobacco as every heroin addict reaches a stage where stopping use suddenly could kill them, hence recovery treatment consists of been weaned off the drug with the use of methadone etc.

what a loada of bull

cold turkey off of heroin has never killed anyone

where did you get this dumb info?

oh and just to add, its actually alcohol that can kill you if stopped suddenly

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 08:47PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Heroin is a chemical addiction though and over time recreational use manifests into dependency. It differs from alcohol and tobacco as every heroin addict reaches a stage where stopping use suddenly could kill them, hence recovery treatment consists of been weaned off the drug with the use of methadone etc.

Methadone is about 60% more addictive than heroin though. But Its a nice drug with a copyright?
Also the most addictive drug on the market legal or illegal is nicotien and cold turkey can kill you.

partyatmygaff · 08-02-2012 08:48PM

jimpump wrote: »

what a loada of bull

cold turkey off of heroin has never killed anyone

where did you get this dumb info?

Probably from a reliable source...

Anyway, sudden heroin withdrawal can be fatal to heavy users. It's not common but if the person is already in poor health it definitely can kill.

jimpump · 08-02-2012 08:57PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Probably from a reliable source...

Anyway, sudden heroin withdrawal can be fatal to heavy users. It's not common but if the person is already in poor health it definitely can kill.

the key word there is poor health

truth is, unless heroin is injected, it is less harmful than alcohol and nicotine

i have never heard of a heroin OD through smoking it. its those that use the needle(which is a small minority of users) that are most at risk

heroin being smoked is as safe as a pint or smoke of a spliff

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 08:59PM

There are 1000 chemicals in a cup of coffee 26 of those have been tested half of which have caused cancer in rats.

mattjack · 08-02-2012 09:14PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Heroin is a chemical addiction though and over time recreational use manifests into dependency. It differs from alcohol and tobacco as every heroin addict reaches a stage where stopping use suddenly could kill them, hence recovery treatment consists of been weaned off the drug with the use of methadone etc.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Probably from a reliable source...

Anyway, sudden heroin withdrawal can be fatal to heavy users. It's not common but if the person is already in poor health it definitely can kill.

Never heard of that before and I work and study in the drug treatment area.A possible underlying medical condition may kill , though not withdrawal symptoms.
Heroin withdrawal can be very uncomfortable , utter agony for some , but it won't kill you.

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 09:53PM

ntlbell wrote: »

why do you keep banging on about heroin?

Why can someone not go out and casually have a joint or two?

snort a few lines?

drop an acid or E enjoy their night and go home?

Alcohol obviously because of the larger user base ruins more famlies and homes and lives than any other drug.

why harp on about heroin?

Relax, I just used heroin as an example.

And I obviously dont share the same viewpoint as you regarding drugs whatsoever. Not going to start on this as its a point for another thread. But if you have a history of mental illness in your family, smoking joints ect....can trigger it with awful effects. That's fact.

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 09:54PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Relax, I just used heroin as an example.

And I obviously dont share the same viewpoint as you regarding drugs whatsoever. Not going to start on this as its a point for another thread. But if you have a history of mental illness in your family, smoking joints ect....can trigger it with awful effects. That's fact.

Also if your family has a history of mental illness having pints and doing shots etc... can have truley horrific effects. Thats a FACT.

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 10:00PM

jimpump wrote: »

what a loada of bull

cold turkey off of heroin has never killed anyone

where did you get this dumb info?

oh and just to add, its actually alcohol that can kill you if stopped suddenly

I really want to throw the word idiot out there, but Id rather not get an infraction. Take it from someone who has family members who work in rehabilitation. Casual Heroin usage nearly always leads to dependency. And cold turkey unless it is managed by a professional in a rehab centre can lead to death, simply because if the addict is a serious addict, their body rejects whats happening to them. actually idiot is the right word. :rolleyes:

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 10:02PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I really want to throw the word idiot out there, but Id rather not get an infraction. Take it from someone who has family members who work in rehabilitation. Casual Heroin usage nearly always leads to dependency. And cold turkey unless it is managed by a professional in a rehab centre can lead to death, simply because if the addict is a serious addict, their body rejects whats happening to them. actually idiot is the right word. :rolleyes:

Wrong. And my brothers a chef that dosent mean I know how to cook a chicken.

jimpump · 08-02-2012 10:05PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I really want to throw the word idiot out there, but Id rather not get an infraction. Take it from someone who has family members who work in rehabilitation. Casual Heroin usage nearly always leads to dependency. And cold turkey unless it is managed by a professional in a rehab centre can lead to death, simply because if the addict is a serious addict, their body rejects whats happening to them. actually idiot is the right word. :rolleyes:

Yes, so very wrong you are

look whos the idiot now

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 10:07PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Wrong. And my brothers a chef that dosent mean I know how to cook a chicken.

Im not wrong, Temptamperu, the problem is with serious heroin users, serious addicts is, if they go cold turkey without help, they can seriously harm themselves, others, and fatally shoot up if they get their hands on heroin again. Furthermore, none of your business to tell me what I do and dont know, considering you havent a clue. grow up.

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 10:11PM

jimpump wrote: »

Yes, so very wrong you are

look whos the idiot now

Wow, Ive been talked down by a clear genius. :rolleyes: No. I'm not wrong. Learn to accept other people's viewpoints and experience. Stop shooting someone down just because you don't agree. But plugging heroin as not being seriously dangerous and leading to death is wrong.

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 10:11PM

If someone is a serious alcoholic the same can happen. So why cant I buy heroin in a store but i can buy as much booze as i want? I can legally walk into a shop and buy enough alcohol to kill thirty people. But opium is a no no because i "might" get hooked.

And i am sorry for the insult.

gmac102 · 08-02-2012 10:19PM

jimpump wrote: »

Are you a huge hypocrite

In my opinion, yes!

anyone that drinks alcohol or smokes tobacco yet are against cannabis,cocaine,heroin users are the biggest hypocrites there is

Alcohol and tobacco users are the biggest cost to the health service in most countries yet these legal drugs are tolerated more than the illegal drugs out there

i just dont get it

lol at ur silliness

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 10:20PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

If someone is a serious alcoholic the same can happen. So why cant I buy heroin in a store but i can buy as much booze as i want? I can legally walk into a shop and buy enough alcohol to kill thirty people. But opium is a no no because i "might" get hooked.

And i am sorry for the insult.

I'm not arguing that alcohol isn't a killer. It is! But the chances of getting hooked on heroin are a lot higher than getting hooked on alcohol, hence why one is legal, the other is not. Personally I just believe heroin is a life destroyer. As is alcohol, but the majority of people can control themselves with alcohol. Im not sure Id fancy my chances with heroin were I to try it and I wouldnt risk it either

Temptamperu · 08-02-2012 10:26PM

I have smoked and snorted heroin I really enjoyed it but its not something I would want to do a hell of a lot of. Booze? first drink i had got me hooked. I suppose its different for everyone.

grazz · 08-02-2012 10:35PM

IrishEyes19 · 08-02-2012 10:36PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

I have smoked and snorted heroin I really enjoyed it but its not something I would want to do a hell of a lot of. Booze? first drink i had got me hooked. I suppose its different for everyone.

I hate drugs to be honest, Temptamperu, and I probably am biased and slightly harsh due to that view, but I wasn't being cheeky or all high and mighty in saying Ive seen terrible cases due to relatives professions.

I agree its different to everyone. But heroin imo is a disaster and I would never look down on addicts either, its tragic what can happen to people. But there is no way I would compare alcohol to heroin. Not unless you took a serious alcoholic and a serious heroin addict and compared. But you cant compare a 18 year old girl having her first drink to the same 18 year old girl shooting up for the first time. I know which one Id be hauling home by the ears.

jimpump · 08-02-2012 11:22PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I hate drugs to be honest, Temptamperu, and I probably am biased and slightly harsh due to that view, but I wasn't being cheeky or all high and mighty in saying Ive seen terrible cases due to relatives professions.

I agree its different to everyone. But heroin imo is a disaster and I would never look down on addicts either, its tragic what can happen to people. But there is no way I would compare alcohol to heroin. Not unless you took a serious alcoholic and a serious heroin addict and compared. But you cant compare a 18 year old girl having her first drink to the same 18 year old girl shooting up for the first time. I know which one Id be hauling home by the ears.

shooting up heroin/opiates is not the same as smoking it
you would need to be smoking everyday for weeks on end to get a habit

trust me, i know. dont believe the nonsense that if you try it once you're hooked for life

just like if you could inject alcohol...now that would be 10Xs worse than drinking it

injecting does not equal smoking.....sick of pointing that out

gerbear1 · 08-02-2012 11:47PM

I wonder what age the OP is..

AudreyHepburn · 08-02-2012 11:54PM

The way I look at it is that while one E or shot of heroin etc could kill you, one drink is very unlikely to unless you mix it with drugs or are allegric or something. Personally I wouldn't touch them.

If you wish to do drugs and are ok with the risks then that's your business but do not lable me a hyprocrit because I choose not to.

Doc · 09-02-2012 12:00AM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

You seem here (and excuse me if I'm wrong) to consider using your drug of choice as "use", yet the use of any other drugs as "abuse". That seems a bit odd.

No sorry I think you have missed my point which was that just to use alcohol and not abuse it was not in my opinion as bad as using the other drugs the OP mentioned and that this did not make me a hypocrite. This was my point.

Others have tried to argue around and distort what I have said but I think it is justified to have one opinion about one type of drug and another about other types without being classified as a hypocrite which is the crux of my argument and the basis for the ridicules statement in the OP.

Cú Giobach · 09-02-2012 12:03AM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I hate drugs to be honest, Temptamperu, and I probably am biased and slightly harsh due to that view, but I wasn't being cheeky or all high and mighty in saying Ive seen terrible cases due to relatives professions.

I agree its different to everyone. But heroin imo is a disaster and I would never look down on addicts either, its tragic what can happen to people. But there is no way I would compare alcohol to heroin. Not unless you took a serious alcoholic and a serious heroin addict and compared. But you cant compare a 18 year old girl having her first drink to the same 18 year old girl shooting up for the first time. I know which one Id be hauling home by the ears.

In all fairness all you have said recently is that you don't have a problem with alcohol but you hate drugs because heroin is bad. Sorry but that isn't a rational argument.

Since Heroin is a very strong form of processed opium, why even bother comparing someone having their first drink to someone trying the strongest form of a strong drug and using the most serious way to get it into their body i.e. injection.
It makes about as much sense as using the complete opposite argument, that is, comparing a young girl taking few Nurofen+ to get a buzz for the first time, to a young girl drinking a bottle of ethanol for the first time. I know which one I'd be hauling home to the hospital by the ears.
As I said in an earlier post, at least compare realistic options.

IrishEyes19 · 09-02-2012 12:10AM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

In all fairness all you have said recently is that you don't have a problem with alcohol but you hate drugs because heroin is bad. Sorry but that isn't a rational argument.

Since Heroin is a very strong form of processed opium, why even bother comparing someone having their first drink to someone trying the strongest form of a strong drug and using the most serious way to get it into their body i.e. injection.
It makes about as much sense as using the complete opposite argument, that is, comparing a young girl taking few Nurofen+ to get a buzz for the first time, to a young girl drinking a bottle of ethanol for the first time. I know which one I'd be hauling home to the hospital by the ears.
As I said in an earlier post, at least compare realistic options.

you need to read the posts carefully, I said, you cant compare them because they are so unlike each other. I may have used a very hard drug to make an example of. but likewise, Id be more worried about any type of drug over alcohol. I absolutely hate drugs. Be them soft or hard.

also, I just took heroin as an example, didnt mean to focus on it, ffs. so relax there.

If you drink alcohol, yet you are against other drugs...

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