16 year old GIRL shot dead in Tallaght

Seachmall · 08-02-2012 12:30PM

EnterNow wrote: »

I think when people say 'for a reason', generally its assumed its a valid reason. To go on Ntlbell's logic, yes, the plumber was shot for a reason - the reason started with gunpowder being ignited. This caused a chemical reaction & fired a projectile. Thats a reason too.

I think it's clear when he says "for a reason" he's referring to the intent of the shooter, not the deterministic behaviour of physics.

The plumber mentioned earlier was not a random shooting, he was shot with intent, i.e. for a reason.

Wrong place, wrong time is unfortunately the reason.

Fran1985 · 08-02-2012 12:31PM

KTRIC wrote: »

When was the last time all of you were shot at ??? If someone puts themselves in a environment and circle that would inevitably mean they would come into the firing line at some stage then I have absolutely no sympathy for them. Obviously there are exceptions like the unfortunate plumber that was dragged into this thread. I stand by my original post.

Being born isn't putting yourself in that situation. I'm pretty sure she didn't ask to be born into that area. She may have also been influenced into hanging around with the wrong crowd, which is easily done with insecure teenagers who just want friends.

Also when did she become a traveller? I haven't seen that anywhere but here.

Any poor girl, thoughts are with her family

Myrddin · 08-02-2012 12:32PM

Seachmall wrote: »

I think it's clear when he says "for a reason" he's referring to the intent of the shooter, not the deterministic behaviour of physics.

The plumber mentioned earlier was not a random shooting, he was shot with intent, i.e. for a reason.

Wrong place, wrong time is unfortunately the reason.

In that case, saying the plumber was shot for a reason, implies he was in some way shape of form involved in something he shouldn't have been.

He was an innocent victim, & was shot for no valid reason. Murdering him to prevent identification of the assassin is not a valid reason in my book. It's just downright disgusting.

Seachmall · 08-02-2012 12:39PM

EnterNow wrote: »

In that case, saying the plumber was shot for a reason, implies he was in some way shape of form involved in something he shouldn't have been.

No, it implies the gunman had a reason to shoot him. The police people call it "motive".

He was an innocent victim, & was shot for no valid reason. Murdering him to prevent identification of the assassin is not a valid reason in my book. It's just downright disgusting.

Which is probably why nobody said it was a valid reason.

ilovelamp2000 · 08-02-2012 12:39PM

Uriel. wrote: »

How many drive bys do you do in a year?

Who knows if she was the target or not. You can't conclusively say she was or she wasn't so your point is... well pointless.

Sad loss of life, no doubt.

Anyone with the slightest bit of judgement or common sense could have said it was obvious she wasn't the target ... and oh look :

A teenage girl killed in a drive-by shooting may have been mistakenly targeted in a feud between families, detectives believe.

The 16-year-old, named locally as Melanie McCarthy, but also known by the surname McNamara, was shot in Tallaght, Dublin, last night at around 10.35pm.

She was sitting in a silver-coloured Nissan Almera car in Brookview Way with three others when her killer opened fire from a black Hyundai Santa Fe SUV that pulled up alongside.

One line of inquiry is that the shooting was linked to a falling out between traveller families.

“It is believed she may not have been the intended target,” said a garda source.

At least one shot was fired from the Hyundai into the car, shattering the side window and hitting the teenager in the head.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tallaght-girl-shot-dead-in-family-feud-539027.html#ixzz1ln0oNCGm

Slippin Jimmy · 08-02-2012 12:43PM

I doubt very much she was the intended target, but why would you let your 16 year old child hang around with scumbags. It's always going to end bad either way.

smash · 08-02-2012 12:45PM

I'm pretty sure that whatever the reason for the shooting, this thread is insensitive and wouldn't be welcomed by her friends and family.

Bruthal · 08-02-2012 12:45PM

Seachmall wrote: »

I think it's clear when he says "for a reason" he's referring to the intent of the shooter, not the deterministic behaviour of physics.

The plumber mentioned earlier was not a random shooting, he was shot with intent, i.e. for a reason.

I can fully see EnterNow`s point though. If it was brought up in discussion with your friends, you would be unlikely to turn and say, "well, he was shot for a reason"

That would be assumed to mean it was justifiable. And the "shot for a reason" statement in this thread has evolved from meaning that it usually is for a good valid reason to be shot in dublin, into the sillyness of reasoning from a killers point of view, as to the meaning of "shot for a reason"

Stark · 08-02-2012 12:46PM

I doubt very much she was the intended target, but why would you let your 16 year old child hang around with scumbags. It's always going to end bad either way.

Where does it say she was hanging with scumbags? The knackers probably mistook their car for a similar looking one.

Seachmall · 08-02-2012 12:46PM

Duffff-Man wrote: »

I doubt very much she was the intended target, but why would you let your 16 year old child hang around with scumbags. It's always going to end bad either way.

Maybe her family are the scumbags.

Or maybe her family pissed off the scumbags.

billymitchell · 08-02-2012 12:47PM

Duffff-Man wrote: »

I doubt very much she was the intended target, but why would you let your 16 year old child hang around with scumbags. It's always going to end bad either way.

Who says she was "let" hang out with scumbags?? I dont have kids, but I'd imagine its pretty difficult to stop a child doing anything once they go outside the walls of the family home.

Although, in saying that, if a child is brought up right, you would hope they would have the cop on not to hang out with scumbags.

But then again, we dont even know if the people she was in the car with were scumbags.

ntlbell · 08-02-2012 12:47PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Eh, yes it is.

No it's not.

The validity of the killing came from the gun man.

The desired result was to escape with the least risk of been caught in the future.

The logical thing to do at this point was to kill the plumber.

The right's and wrongs legalities we can decide but not the validity of the action.

Slippin Jimmy · 08-02-2012 12:48PM

Stark wrote: »

Where does it say she was hanging with scumbags? The knackers probably mistook their car for a similar looking one.

How do you know they were knackers? They think it was a fued, so they knew exactly who they were after.

ntlbell · 08-02-2012 12:49PM

EnterNow wrote: »

In that case, saying the plumber was shot for a reason, implies he was in some way shape of form involved in something he shouldn't have been.

He was an innocent victim, & was shot for no valid reason. Murdering him to prevent identification of the assassin is not a valid reason in my book. It's just downright disgusting.

but your book or opinion is irrelevant here.

So all this talk of disgusting an OTT responses is nonsensical.

You're getting too emotional.

Bruthal · 08-02-2012 12:50PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Which is probably why nobody said it was a valid reason.

It was said its not for us to decide of it was a valid reason or not (plumber). Not a lot better than saying it is valid really.

Seachmall · 08-02-2012 12:50PM

ntlbell wrote: »

The right's and wrongs legalities we can decide but not the validity of the action.

The validity of the action in a moral sense is for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a legal sense if for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a practical sense is for the gun man to decide, and I'm not questioning the fact 0 witnesses are better than 1.

ntlbell · 08-02-2012 12:51PM

Seachmall wrote: »

The validity of the action in a moral sense is for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a legal sense if for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a practical sense is for the gun man to decide, and I'm not questioning the fact 0 witnesses are better than 1.

So you agree then.

Good lad.

Stark · 08-02-2012 12:52PM

You're really distracting from the point here. The "shot for a reason" thing wasn't brought into this thread for the purposes of starting an intellectual discussion on killer motives, it was brought up to imply that the girl was a scumbag who got what was coming to her.

Myrddin · 08-02-2012 12:52PM

Seachmall wrote: »

The validity of the action in a moral sense is for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a legal sense if for us to decide.
The validity of the action in a practical sense is for the gun man to decide, and I'm not questioning the fact 0 witnesses are better than 1.

I hate to tell you, that unless your privy to all the facts, your fit to decide nothing.

ntlbell · 08-02-2012 12:53PM

robbie7730 wrote: »

It was said its not for us to decide of it was a valid reason or not (plumber). Not a lot better than saying it is valid really.

you keep playing on specific words.

The simple fact that was been made right from the start is this.

If you get shot in Ireland, it is highly likely but not always you did something to instigate the action.

In this particular case we don't know if that was the case but in general in these cases that is true.

So why is the assumption so horrible today? because it was a 16yr old girl?

if it was a 25yr old man from jobstown would you be so quick to defend him?

my arse you would.

Seachmall · 08-02-2012 12:53PM

ntlbell wrote: »

So you agree then.

Good lad.

Perhaps next time you could word your posts better so as to avoid any confusion.

Good lad.

EnterNow wrote:

I hate to tell you, that unless your privy to all the facts, your fit to decide nothing.

Are you suggesting it's better to have 1 witness than 0? From the gunman's perspective, obviously.

lippy11 · 08-02-2012 12:55PM

Apparently it was a case of mistaken identity..
And seems to be the result of feuding families. (Just heard it on the radio)

So, so sad.... Taking a persons life seems to be the solution to all feuds nowadays.

Stark · 08-02-2012 12:56PM

Duffff-Man wrote: »

How do you know they were knackers? They think it was a fued, so they knew exactly who they were after.

The words "traveller feud" were a bit of a give away.

Myrddin · 08-02-2012 12:57PM

ntlbell wrote: »

So why is the assumption so horrible today? because it was a 16yr old girl?

if it was a 25yr old man from jobstown would you be so quick to defend him?

my arse you would.

This is true & I'm guilty of this myself, I've no problem holding my hands up there. I've tried to distance myself from the innate, ingrained Irish cynicism that we can all hold dear, & you'd be surprised how much preconceptions can be wrong. Now I try to view all situations with an open mind.

The man who knows everything cannot be educated

Myrddin · 08-02-2012 12:58PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Are you suggesting it's better to have 1 witness than 0? From the gunman's perspective, obviously.

What I'm suggesting, is that taking an innocent mans life to protect a murderer, is wrong from where I look at it. If you want to empathize with the gunman go ahead, I'll look at it from the plumbers family's perspective.

ntlbell · 08-02-2012 12:59PM

EnterNow wrote: »

This is true & I'm guilty of this myself, I've no problem holding my hands up there. I've tried to distance myself from the innate, ingrained Irish cynicism that we can all hold dear, & you'd be surprised how much preconceptions can be wrong. Now I try to view all situations with an open mind.

The man who knows everything cannot be educated

The man who thinks he knows everything will learn nothing

Bruthal · 08-02-2012 12:59PM

ntlbell wrote: »

So why is the assumption so horrible today? because it was a 16yr old girl?

if it was a 25yr old man from jobstown would you be so quick to defend him?

my arse you would.

I would if he was shown to be an innocent man going about his normal daily life and he was being mentioned in this thread.

stovelid · 08-02-2012 12:59PM

I note with interest that the only way to avoid a deluge of spiteful generalizations about you based on your social, gender and class background is to get shot.

Myrddin · 08-02-2012 12:59PM

ntlbell wrote: »

The man who thinks he knows everything will learn nothing

Depends on your perspective

Slippin Jimmy · 08-02-2012 12:59PM

Stark wrote: »

The words "traveller feud" were a bit of a give away.

Taveller fued, not knacker fued. Call them by their proper title.

16 year old GIRL shot dead in Tallaght

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