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If you drink alcohol, yet you are against other drugs...

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Comments

  • #92
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Doc wrote: »
    Basically you are just wrong.

    Here's what you said.
    Doc wrote: »
    Just because I have a glass of wine at dinner but am against cannabis,cocaine,heroin use I am the biggest hypocrites there is?

    I'll answer the question again. Yes, you are indeed a hypocrite.


  • #93
    Doc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Doc


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Here's what you said.
    Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Just because I have a glass of wine at dinner but am against cannabis,cocaine,heroin use I am the biggest hypocrites there is?

    I'll answer the question again. Yes, you are indeed a hypocrite.

    No that is a partial quote this is what I said
    I think you may be mixing up use and abuse. Just because I have a glass of wine at dinner but am against cannabis,cocaine,heroin use I am the biggest hypocrites there is? Grow up.

    And you have not explanied how I'm being hypocritical, in my last post I clearly explained how I was not.

    You say I'm hypocritical without saying why.


  • #94
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Doc wrote: »
    And you have not explanied how I'm being hypocritical, in my last post I clearly explained how I was not.

    I'm not sure you're going to get this but let's try again.

    You believe your having a glass of wine (your drug of choice) is somehow not wrong whereas the use of the other drugs is.

    That is an irreconcilable stance, ergo, hypocritical.


  • #95
    Doc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Doc


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    And you have not explanied how I'm being hypocritical, in my last post I clearly explained how I was not.

    I'm not sure you're going to get this but let's try again.

    You believe your having a glass of wine (your drug of choice) is somehow not wrong whereas the use of the other drugs is.

    That is an irreconcilable stance, ergo, hypocritical.

    You believe it to be a irreconcilable stance but it is not.

    You are disregarding the huge differences between the use of alcohol (a legal drug that when use within recommend guidelines is safe) to other drugs (which are illegal and with different levels of potential danger and not generally recommend be consumed at all)

    I can be in favour of the use of one type without being in favour of the other without being a hypocrite and am simply baffled that you can't understand this.

    Just because two things can be classified under the same umbrella term dose not make them the same.


  • #96
    mickrock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Doc wrote: »
    You are disregarding the huge differences between the use of alcohol (a legal drug that when use within recommend guidelines is safe) to other drugs (which are illegal and with different levels of potential danger and not generally recommend be consumed at all)

    The medical people who claim that alcohol in moderation is fine also happen to be, in most cases, users of the drug themselves. Hmm, I wonder is that just a coincidence.


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  • #97
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    I'm not sure you're going to get this but let's try again.

    You believe your having a glass of wine (your drug of choice) is somehow not wrong whereas the use of the other drugs is.

    That is an irreconcilable stance, ergo, hypocritical.

    You really equate drinking a glass of wine with injecting a syringe of heroin? You would be equally as comfortable for your kids to take either?


  • #98
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Doc wrote: »
    You are disregarding the huge differences between the use of alcohol (a legal drug that when use within recommend guidelines is safe) to other drugs.

    This is a logical fallacy; an appeal to common practice. Just because many people drink alcohol and it is visible and accepted in society does not mean that it is a more moral drug. In fact evidence has been presented earlier in this thread that alcohol is one the most destructive drugs availiable.
    (which are illegal and with different levels of potential danger and not generally recommend be consumed at all)

    The illegal status of a drug has no bearing on whether it's consumption is wrong or right. Alcohol is illegal in many middle eastern countries - if you partake in alcohol use in these countries you are breaking the law.

    Do you think it is fair that you are labelled a criminal in Saudi Arabia for something that you choose to do routinely in Ireland? Of course you don't.


  • #99
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Do you think it is fair that you are labelled a criminal in Saudi Arabia for something that you choose to do routinely in Ireland? Of course you don't.

    The country where you can be locked up for kissing. Is that wrong too?


  • #100
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    You really equate drinking a glass of wine with injecting a syringe of heroin? You would be equally as comfortable for your kids to take either?

    Who said anything about injecting heroin? Heroin can be smoked. Smoking opium was a common practice before it was outlawed. Why is it any worse than having a pint?

    Injecting heroin is abusing the drug rather than using it. Just like slamming cans of cider versus having a glass of wine.


  • #101
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    The country where you can be locked up for kissing. Is that wrong too?

    I think you're missing the point. The fact that alcohol is illegal in the middle east doesn't make an argument that it should illegal here - it highlights the absurdity of having some drugs illegal and others acceptable.

    JFC.


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  • #102
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Who said anything about injecting heroin? Heroin can be smoked. Smoking opium was a common practice before it was outlawed. Why is it any worse than having a pint?

    Injecting heroin is abusing the drug rather than using it. Just like slamming cans of cider versus having a glass of wine.

    Is it hypocritical to drink a few pints, and yet object to injecting heroin? Earlier you seemed to suggest the level of use had no relevance.


  • #103
    Father Damo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    jimpump wrote: »
    Are you a huge hypocrite

    In my opinion, yes!

    anyone that drinks alcohol or smokes tobacco yet are against cannabis,cocaine,heroin users are the biggest hypocrites there is

    What age are you, 15?

    I drink heavily at the weekend. I take yokes regularly, if they are good quality I fcuking love them. I used to smoke hash by the ton. I have never had much time for coke in truth, most of it in Ireland is rubbish for the price it costs. Paying a quarter weeks wage for a brief kick followed by feeling like Ive been to the dentist has never cut the mustard with me.

    Of all of the above I would rate alcohol as the safest, cleanest, most enjoyable drug. Cannabis is atrociously anti social. Id rather be surrounded by mouldy drunks in a pub getting sideways that sitting in a gaff with people comparing how stoned the other is.


    And there is no better joke than the rubbish that cannabis somehow inspires people in terms of art and music. Jesus christ.


  • #104
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Earlier you seemed to suggest the level of use had no relevance.

    Use =/= abuse.

    Abuse of any substance is a problem. Eating too much chocolate, sugar, chips - whatever - is a problem.


  • #105
    mickrock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Injecting heroin is abusing the drug rather than using it. Just like slamming cans of cider versus having a glass of wine.

    Why the distinction between using and abusing?

    Both want to get high, one quicker than the other.


  • #106
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Use =/= abuse.

    Abuse of any substance is a problem. Eating too much chocolate, sugar, chips - whatever - is a problem.

    Alcohol >= to heroin for an individual would seem unlikely. Maybe it is ignorance on my part though.


  • #107
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    mickrock wrote: »
    Why the distinction between using and abusing

    The distinction between use and abuse is everything because abuse of any drug is a problem. As said earlier abusing food will cause huge problems for people but we wouldn't dream of trying to limit people's calorie intake (at least not yet).

    The guy who has a few cans of beer or a few pints on a Saturday night, the guy who has a joint when he comes home from work, the girl who takes a couple of E's at the weekend - these people are not a problem.

    Some people will abuse these substances and will harm themselves or others - these people are.

    I'm out.


  • #108
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The distinction between use and abuse is everything because abuse of any drug is a problem. As said earlier abusing food will cause huge problems for people but we wouldn't dream of trying to limit people's calorie intake (at least not yet).

    The guy who has a few cans of beer or a few pints on a Saturday night, the guy who has a joint when he comes home from work, the girl who takes a couple of E's at the weekend - these people are not a problem.


    So the answer is, you would see no difference between your kids (18+) having a glass of wine a day, and taking heroin each day.


  • #109
    snowfinch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭snowfinch


    This is so easy. I have no problem drinking alcohol as it is legal and taxed and the state profits from it. Monies from drugs go to fund the criminal underbelly of society whom I despise and I think it hypocritical of people who go on about being socially upstanding yet take drugs that fund the lowest of the low.

    Legalise cannabis, cocaine etc and I have no problem with people taking them, the state will profit, some of the money can go to treatments to those who can't handle it but in the meantime the money goes to thugs & murderers. I am glad to have no part of that. I can enjoy a glass of wine and not feel hypocritical at all.


  • #110
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    So the answer is, you would see no difference between your kids (18+) having a glass of wine a day, and taking heroin each day.

    If I was forced to choose I would rather they'd drink alcohol because they wouldn't have to get it from scumbags and face being criminalised for use and possession. If smoking opium was legal and normalised then maybe I'd choose that.


  • #111
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If I was forced to choose I would rather they'd drink alcohol because they wouldn't have to get it from scumbags and face being criminalised for use and possession. If smoking opium was legal and normalised then maybe I'd choose that.

    There is no doubting how bad alcohol can be when abused. I do think people can have an opinion on the difference between alcohol and other drugs without being hypocrites though.

    To simply say if one drug is legal and freely available, they must all be legal and freely available, and any other opinoin is hypocritical, seems a bit unjust possibly.


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  • #112
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    There is no doubting how bad alcohol can be when abused. I do think people can have an opinion on the difference between alcohol and other drugs without being hypocrites though.

    To simply say if one drug is legal and freely available, they must all be legal and freely available, and any other opinoin is hypocritical, seems a bit unjust possibly.

    If his stance was that all drug consumption should be illegal and he abstained from drugs himself then he is being consistent.

    Saying 'I should be allowed to use the drug of my choice but I don't think you should be allowed to use yours' is hypocritical.


  • #113
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Surely the issue is legality?

    Rightly or wrongly, certain drugs are classified as illegal. And if you use such drugs you are supporting the criminal underworld that supplies them?

    This makes for a more violent and run infested society that places huge demands on our policing resources. And of course we quite possibility saw a manifestation of this infestation in the slaying of that girl in Talllaght last night.


  • #114
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    lugha wrote: »
    Surely the issue is legality?

    It certainly is.
    Rightly or wrongly certain drugs are classified as illegal.

    Wrongly.
    And if you use such drugs you are supporting the criminal underworld that supplies them?

    Rubbish.

    People have no choice but to source their drugs from the criminal under world.

    Why?

    Yep, you've guessed it. Because they are illegal.

    Strawman fallacy next?

    Or perhaps an 'appeal to common practice' fallacy?

    Or are will we see the 'parade of horribles' non-argument?

    Or maybe the inability to distinguish between abuse and use? That's a good'un.


  • #115
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    It certainly is.



    Wrongly.



    Rubbish.

    People have no choice but to source their drugs from the criminal under world.

    Why?

    Yep, you've guessed it. Because they are illegal.

    Strawman fallacy next?

    Or perhaps an appeal to common practice fallacy?

    Or are will we see the parade of horribles non-argument?

    Or maybe the good old ability to not distinguish between abuse and use? That's a good'un.

    What is your argument?

    Certain drugs are illegal for a reason, I'm not against decriminalization or legalising them, dangerous substances other than recreational substances are banned due to there danger, why not certain drugs?

    I'm not against it, but there's sense to criminalising or restricting access to dangerous substances be it heroin or be it uranium.


  • #116
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    People have no choice but to source their drugs from the criminal under world.
    Think a little harder and I think you will find that they do have a choice. Not one they want to take, but choice they have?

    You are basically giving license to anybody to break the law (for personal benefit mind, not any principled altruistic reason) if they disapprove of the law!

    Might I ask, how do you distinguish between laws that we must obey (or are there any???) and optional ones that we obey only if we approve of them?


  • #117
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Saying 'I should be allowed to use the drug of my choice but I don't think you should be allowed to use yours' is hypocritical.

    So you are in effect saying, legalise all possible drugs to be freely available, or legalise none.


  • #118
    snowfinch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭snowfinch


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    It certainly is.


    Rubbish.

    People have no choice but to source their drugs from the criminal under world.

    [/unquote=Chuck Stone;76972732]

    Don't be ridiculous, no-one has to take illegal drugs. You just choose to do so thereby ignoring your social conscience and fund criminals to get your kicks. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.


  • #119
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Sindri wrote: »
    What is your argument?

    What's yours? I believe all drugs should be legalised for a multitude of reasons.
    Certain drugs are illegal for a reason

    No good reason.
    I'm not against decriminalization or legalising them

    Great.
    dangerous substances other than recreational substances are banned due to there danger,

    Like say DDT or Asbestos? Yes, they are illegal because they have the potential to harm people who have no decision in whether they are at risk or not. Drug users choose to take drugs.
    why not certain drugs

    Because the 'cure' (prohibition and the criminality and violence* that orbits it) is worse than the disease (drug use).

    * I include the violence of the state against peaceful people who choose to take drugs in this too.


  • #120
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    So you are in effect saying, legalise all possible drugs to be freely available, or legalise none.

    No - I was pointing out an inconsistency. He said, in a nutshell, 'I should be able to use my drug of choice (alcohol) while I support that you get a criminal record for using yours' (weed/E's/Cocaine etc).

    I do support the legalisation of all drugs though but that's a different matter.


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  • #121
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    Oh how I long for the day when I go to a dinner party and be asked.

    "Will you have just a line or a speedball foxy?"

    :rolleyes:

    If I drink caffeine which is a drug but abhor and condone Heroin use, does that make me a hyprocrite?


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