Superbowl XLVI

tallaghtoutlaws · 06-02-2012 11:16PM

neilster wrote: »

Couldnt disagree more the Giants defence stiffened in the 4th quarter when the Pats defence couldnt do the same to the same degree

What? Both defenses did and to be fair Brady was carving them open until Welker couldn't bring in that catch same as Branch. Both catchable balls that both guys have caught all season long.But had Manningham not made that insane catch who knows where that drive would have gone. Giants gained massive ground on that catch.

That included extra pressure and a sack and a second half sack into the turf from Tuck on Brady ...an a possible injury to Brady or at least discomfort ...im not dumping on Brady as this Dan Wetzel article describes the heartache for the guy

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-wetzel_tom_brady_super_bowl_gisele_bundchen_defeat_020512

I care less to what Dan Wetzel thinks of Bradys non throwing arm. If you honestly think this phased Tom Brady you are mad considering he made a few a decent passes after that injury.

And i dont think it is nice to make Welker the Goat...the throw was high and not in stride ....he had to reach up...and backwards ...and lunge ...in stride thats a catch

Again its not about a catch made and catch not

No one is making Welker the scapegoat but his failure to bring in a football he had his hands on and that he caught so many times in the past summed up the Pats WR corp.

On the Manning-Maiingham 38 yrd completion ...youd have to say fortune favours the brave...that call is a play to the right of the field to Nicks/Cruz...Manning spots Chung cheating to the inside of the field exposing Moore at Corner ever so slightly...Moore in Cover 2 tries to jam Manningham (poor lad ..his only mistake) but fails ...Manningham has the break on him with Chung slightly off the supporting position ...he should have had ....Manning lays it on the money but it wouldnt have been there with a cover corner or with Earl Thomas in the backfield and something tells me BB is all too aware of this as the draft will attest to

The only thing Moore did wrong on that play was not getting enough on Manningham. Knowing he would have help over the top with Chung he did what any corner would do. In this instance Manningham was too quick for him and with Chung moving inside slightly the help didn't come quick enough. But that still doesn't take away from the insane catch Manningham made. That ball was moving at speed so close to the sideline it was always going to take a good catch to keep it in. To say it wouldn't have been there with any other corner back there is stupid at best. Throws and catches like that will skin any defender no matter how good they are. No idea why you think Earl Thomas would have stopped that but ok.

Sean The Lad · 07-02-2012 01:09AM

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Anyone know any sites where I could watch or download the game? Should have recorded

highlights on nfl.com or else you could buy the dvd

:L
nice name btw :L:L

Blured · 07-02-2012 12:01PM

New England Patriots

eagle eye wrote: »

Dwayne Bowe would be top of the list, Vincent Jackson also, then Marques Colston. Three big, fast men, just ideal for the Patriots.

DeSean Jackson is a free agent as well - could be a good fit for the Patriots and his value will be down after his poor enough season

Sean The Lad · 07-02-2012 12:19PM

Blured wrote: »

DeSean Jackson is a free agent as well - could be a good fit for the Patriots and his value will be down after his poor enough season

clearly they dont need any more offense ffs, need to snap cortland finnegan and a couple safetys man pats db's and d line ****in suck balls!

HeartOfTheCity · 07-02-2012 12:30PM

The Pats need certainly isn't a deep threat receiver. As stated elsewhere in this thread, the absolute need is at corner and safety, with a consistent pass rusher close behind.

Brady's deep ball has never been fantastic, and has fallen off in the past few seasons. For those who will mention the 50 TD season, the majority of those deep balls came from Randy Moss covering up an under or overthrown ball.

I'd much rather see the Pats overpay for a DB than a WR, but neither of these things will happen.

HeartOfTheCity · 07-02-2012 12:33PM

Blured wrote: »

DeSean Jackson is a free agent as well - could be a good fit for the Patriots and his value will be down after his poor enough season

The Pats are definitely not paying a guy with an unbelievably bad attitude. They already had the Haynesworth saga this season. Yes, they gambled on Moss, but did not give up much in terms of money to get him, and Moss >>>> Jackson.

eagle eye · 07-02-2012 01:20PM

HeartOfTheCity wrote: »

The Pats need certainly isn't a deep threat receiver. As stated elsewhere in this thread, the absolute need is at corner and safety, with a consistent pass rusher close behind.

Brady's deep ball has never been fantastic, and has fallen off in the past few seasons. For those who will mention the 50 TD season, the majority of those deep balls came from Randy Moss covering up an under or overthrown ball.

I'd much rather see the Pats overpay for a DB than a WR, but neither of these things will happen.

Oh so we can't mention the unbeaten regular season because it was all Randy Moss who was a magnificent deep threat. Lmfao.

HeartOfTheCity · 07-02-2012 01:27PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh so we can't mention the unbeaten regular season because it was all Randy Moss who was a magnificent deep threat. Lmfao.

I'm a Pats fan. I'm just being realistic in my assessment.

eagle eye · 07-02-2012 02:36PM

HeartOfTheCity wrote: »

I'm a Pats fan. I'm just being realistic in my assessment.

No you are not being realistic. We need a premium deep threat to get the very best from this offense.

mikemac1 · 07-02-2012 02:42PM

New England Patriots

Steelers are in cap hell and the team will be gutted this offseason

If Patriots are willing to pay a first rounder tender then Mike Wallace is a restricted free agent

Me just thinking of trades in my head, it's never been rumoured but it seems to make sense.

Many WR draft picks are busts and do not work out, Mike Wallace is proven and worth a first round pick imo

Danger_dave1 · 07-02-2012 02:46PM

New England Patriots

eagle eye wrote: »

No you are not being realistic. We need a premium deep threat to get the very best from this offense.

The patriot's got to the Superbowl in spite of there defense. Making your top priority a deep threat in my opinion is crazy.

Yes its a concern but its not the main one.

Wish the jets had the patriots problems.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 02:57PM

The Pats have 4 picks over the first 2 rounds. Quite easily for us to take a quality CB, Quality WR and Quality linebackers/pass rushers. There is also plenty of talent on the Free agency to play with. We can still take our absolute need at CB and still have plenty of options to take our other needs.

Anyone who thinks we dont need a deep threat Im sorry clearly doesnt understand an offense and how to spread a defense. A high percentage of all our pass down the middle or short. A very low amount of passes were wide left or deep. You open up the field with a legit deep threat and every defense in the league will have problems.

As for the Pats fan who said we dont need a Deep threat, dude you are on your own.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 02:58PM

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

The patriot's got to the Superbowl in spite of there defense. Making your top priority a deep threat in my opinion is crazy.

Yes its a concern but its not the main one.

Wish the jets had the patriots problems.

Where did EE say top priority in any of what he wrote? As I said in my post before this we have 2 first round picks and 2 second. We could use them to get both quite easily. Bill wont take anymore than one CB if he goes down that road in the top 2 rounds.

Morrisseeee · 07-02-2012 03:08PM

New England Patriots

Ah come on lads, it's clear what the Pats need, and that's a QB that's clutch in the 4th Q, someone like............say.....................Tebow

/Only kiddin, I'm still hurting from the beatings ye gave us

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 03:09PM

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Ah come on lads, it's clear what the Pats need, and that's a QB that's clutch in the 4th Q, someone like............say.....................Tebow

/Only kiddin, I'm still hurting from the beatings ye gave us

Ryan Leaf would be my choice.

jman0war · 07-02-2012 03:12PM

Just finished watching the SB.
I thought the game was rather conservative.
Defenses ruled the roost a lot.
2nd Qt the Pats offense was really doing well.
Giants looked positively conservative in the 3rd Qt, running it loads in the red zone.

Overall i would rate the game as not really living up to the hype.
But it was tense in the final 4 or 5 mins.

Danger_dave1 · 07-02-2012 03:18PM

New England Patriots

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Where did EE say top priority in any of what he wrote?.

All eagle eye has mentioned is a deep threat. He tried to say that I was wrong the patriots needed a D Back. They do

He's been very vocal in last few pages about a deep threat he hasn't mentioned the patriots others needs.

He's got an opinion and sure he might be right. A deep threat to stretch the field and it doesn't matter how good the other teams D is.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 03:24PM

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

All eagle eye has mentioned is a deep threat. He tried to say that I was wrong the patriots needed a D Back. They do

He's been very vocal in last few pages about a deep threat he hasn't mentioned the patriots others needs.

He's got an opinion and sure he might be right. A deep threat to stretch the field and it doesn't matter how good the other teams D is.

You ask most Pats fans what they think we need for the most part its mix of the following:

In no order: CB, WR, OLB/DE, LB

This are the 4 areas most will agree on well except one person in the last 2 pages on this thread. It doesnt matter what order they are in as most Pats fans know these are our needs. Some prioritise differently to others and being Pats fans and the fact we stockpile picks its not hard to. We have the 2 picks at the bottom of round 1 and 2 in round 2. We could actually cover all 4 of those in two rounds. And then there is the Free Agency.

Danger_dave1 · 07-02-2012 03:48PM

New England Patriots

I know that. So we agreeing I just disagree with eagle eye

davyjose · 07-02-2012 04:45PM

New England Patriots

I have to laugh at the Pats fans saying they need a deep threat. I remember at the start of the season some posters claiming this was potentially a better O than '07.
I also remember them being fairly pragmatic about releasing the best Deep threat of all time, last season. "In Bill we trust", and all that!

I feel pretty bad for the Pats fans on here, as all you guys are great posters, and have been the heartbeat of this forum at times, but ultimately you lost on a couple of iffy throws by Brady, IMO. The fact is, Manning's throw to Manningham was infinitely better than Brady's to Welker (who was wide open). And his pass to Branch was criminal.

Sorry lads.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 05:52PM

davyjose wrote: »

I have to laugh at the Pats fans saying they need a deep threat. I remember at the start of the season some posters claiming this was potentially a better O than '07.

What Pats fans said that?

I also remember them being fairly pragmatic about releasing the best Deep threat of all time, last season. "In Bill we trust", and all that!

Never catch me saying in Bill we trust. I said it also releasing Moss was stupid.

I feel pretty bad for the Pats fans on here, as all you guys are great posters, and have been the heartbeat of this forum at times, but ultimately you lost on a couple of iffy throws by Brady, IMO.

A throw that Welker has caught hundreds of times before. If anything both were at fault. Based on Welker's career you would have put your house on him catching that.

HigginsJ · 07-02-2012 06:05PM

New England Patriots

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

The Pats have 4 picks over the first 2 rounds. Quite easily for us to take a quality CB, Quality WR and Quality linebackers/pass rushers. There is also plenty of talent on the Free agency to play with. We can still take our absolute need at CB and still have plenty of options to take our other needs.

Anyone who thinks we dont need a deep threat Im sorry clearly doesnt understand an offense and how to spread a defense. A high percentage of all our pass down the middle or short. A very low amount of passes were wide left or deep. You open up the field with a legit deep threat and every defense in the league will have problems.

As for the Pats fan who said we dont need a Deep threat, dude you are on your own.

Giants fan and i hate Tom Terrible but how confident would you be of Bellichik actually using all of those picks and not just turning them into future picks again.

Does it frustrate Pat's fans when that happens, when the team has so many clear needs (pretty much same needs as the past off-season).

davyjose · 07-02-2012 06:07PM

New England Patriots

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

What Pats fans said that?

Never catch me saying in Bill we trust. I said it also releasing Moss was stupid.

A throw that Welker has caught hundreds of times before. If anything both were at fault. Based on Welker's career you would have put your house on him catching that.

I can't remember Tallaght, it stuck in my head though, such was the ridiculousness of it. I get maybe that there was a sense that people were making the best of a bad situ when moss left. but I don't remember anyone screaming for a deep threat in the reg season, when Brady was throwing almost 40TD's and 5000+ yards.

Welker catches them so often because he is so good. His body was twisting away from the direction of his run as he caught it. Yeah both were at fault, but the receiving core is not the reason this team didn't win the Super Bowl. Not even close.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 06:13PM

davyjose wrote: »

I can't remember Tallaght, it stuck in my head though, such was the ridiculousness of it. I get maybe that there was a sense that people were making the best of a bad situ when moss left. but I don't remember anyone screaming for a deep threat in the reg season, when Brady was throwing almost 40TD's and 5000+ yards.

I did a few times this season and to be fair how our offense worked many teams failed to cover our attack across the middle. But when we need to hit deep on the outside we failed and so many of the close games we played in had that deep threat been there we would have comfortably won with the offense we have.

So easy for non Pats fans to use hindsight and say "Oh you werent pushing about it much in the regular season" type phrases when the fact of the matter you just have to roll with what you got. And as I said as most teams couldnt defend it why would we complain for the most part. But like the Jets in the playoffs last season it was clear we needed another Randy Moss deep threat type.

If the Pats dont spread that play out eventually like every linear offense teams will be able to stop it. Its daft to think otherwise.

Welker catches them so often because he is so good. His body was twisting away from the direction of his run as he caught it.

you can try justify all you want but even Welker knows he has made that catch many times. Lets hear what he has to say on the situation:

“It hit me right in the hands. It’s a play I never drop. I always make,” Welker said. “Most critical situation and I let the team down.”

Asked if the Patriots were guilty of squandering numerous chances to win the game, Welker said, “I’m right there at the top of the list.”

“It’s one of those plays I have made 1,000 times, just didn’t make it. The ball was right there. I have got to make the play.

“It comes to the biggest moment in my life and I don’t come up with it. It’s discouraging.”

eagle eye · 07-02-2012 06:20PM

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

The patriot's got to the Superbowl in spite of there defense. Making your top priority a deep threat in my opinion is crazy.

Yes its a concern but its not the main one.

Wish the jets had the patriots problems.

We only conceded 21 points in the Superbowl but still lost. We had a hobbled Gronkowski which was a huge loss but even when he is fully fit this offense would be better with a premium deept threat. Our defense did their job in the Superbowl, our offense did not do its job. It wasn't Brady's fault, nor was it Welker's fault, it was simply down to us not having a deep threat to keep the Giants D honest. They only have to go man on whoever is going down the field. You put a Dwayne Bowe/Vincent Jackson type into that offense and there will be holes in every defense because they have to respect the deep threat. We have a better rounded offense now than we ever had imo but it will be the best in the NFL if we get a deep threat imo.

eagle eye · 07-02-2012 06:27PM

davyjose wrote: »

I can't remember Tallaght, it stuck in my head though, such was the ridiculousness of it. I get maybe that there was a sense that people were making the best of a bad situ when moss left. but I don't remember anyone screaming for a deep threat in the reg season, when Brady was throwing almost 40TD's and 5000+ yards.

Welker catches them so often because he is so good. His body was twisting away from the direction of his run as he caught it. Yeah both were at fault, but the receiving core is not the reason this team didn't win the Super Bowl. Not even close.

I said it was potentially better, and remember the word potentially was in there. The reason for that was I thought Ocho would work out great for us but unfortunately he didn't work out at all.

I still believe this is a much better rounded offense that '07 but we still need the deep threat to complete it. If we get the guy who can be that in the Patriots system then we are in great shape.

I don't think Reggie Wayne would become a Patriot so its Bowe for me. Vincent Jackson has all the talent but he is a bad option, he is one mistake away from jail and/or being suspended by the NFL. Thats of course if we go the free agency route. There are some really good players in the draft too but we would have to move up to get the ones that would work out in their first year I think.

Edit to add: Any professional footballer will tell you that when he gets his two hands on a ball and fail to hold onto it that its a drop. I'm not saying it was easy and nobody to this point has ever said it was a perfect throw but Welker says he is gutted about it and he should be because he got his two hands on the ball and didn't make the catch. I'm not blaming him for the loss though and I'm not blaming Brady either. We just struggled on offense despite some really good plays. I think Gronk struggling had a lot to do with that, he has been a huge part of the offense this season and he wasn't up to doing his thing on Sunday.

matthew8 · 07-02-2012 06:38PM

New England Patriots

The Pats don't need a deep threat, but a Torrey Smith type of player could work well for them.

Hazys · 07-02-2012 06:45PM

The Pats need to be better at WR, it doesnt neccessarily mean a deep threat. We have no body who can catch the ball 20yrds+ down the field or outside the middle of the pitch.

Branch is not good enough, Ocho is a flop (altough another season under his belt in this system who knows), Wes is a great slot receiver but not out in the sidelines or deep, same goes for Gronk and Hernandez.

I'd love me some Dwayne Bowe!!!

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-02-2012 06:55PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not blaming him for the loss though and I'm not blaming Brady either.

No one should be but it summed up our WR corp on Sunday night. Catches they all have been making all season long suddenly became impossible catches.

eagle eye · 07-02-2012 06:58PM

matthew8 wrote: »

The Pats don't need a deep threat, but a Torrey Smith type of player could work well for them.

Torrey Smith is a deep threat.

Superbowl XLVI

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