Superbowl XLVI

fisgon · 06-02-2012 12:50PM

New England Patriots

Syferus wrote: »

One of the most incongruous aspects of the sport for non-Americans. Visually it sends out the wrong message - putting the money man out front - even if they happen to have been doing trojan work for the team.

Totally agree with this. Noticed it during the world series in baseball this year, these guys slogging their guts out over 7 games, (in baseball) or 19 games, in football, through injuries, playing hard, training hard, dealing with the stress and elation and disappointment, and they give the trophy to some dude in a suit who has never played a day in his life. Looks awful.

fisgon · 06-02-2012 12:52PM

New England Patriots

Great game, very enjoyable and competitive. Just a few observations...

- that Manningham catch was out of this world, and won the Giants the superbowl..
- The reason the Pats lost is that they have no deep threat. They miss Randy Moss big time. I think Brady threw it long only twice in the last two games, and was picked off both times.

neilster · 06-02-2012 12:56PM

spiralism wrote: »

Last night surely wrapped up the HOF for Coughlin and Eli i would imagine. TC at 65 is the oldest coach to win a SB.

Yes its true....an OP last night mentioned Tom Coughlin going off into the sunset and retiring ....

Firstly i dont buy it in anything Coughlin has done before...he has a 31 yr old clutch quarterback ...reasonably young defensive line ...PierrePaul is only a 2nd year players...CruzNicksMann...are young even though Manningham will probably depart

its not really a veteran team ...in fact the Pats have more issues regarding free agency ...holes to fill for the draft

so why should Coughlin retire ? if he feels good why not

GoldFour4 · 06-02-2012 12:57PM

New England Patriots

fisgon wrote: »

Totally agree with this. Noticed it during the world series in baseball this year, these guys slogging their guts out over 7 games, (in baseball) or 19 games, in football, through injuries, playing hard, training hard, dealing with the stress and elation and disappointment, and they give the trophy to some dude in a suit who has never played a day in his life. Looks awful.

I have to disagree. The nfl and other us sports would be nowhere without their owners. They sacrifice millions of dollars in salarys each year. They pay for the players to fly across the country.

Also I think its better to give the trophy to the owner because football is a team sport.Hes the representative for all the players and coaches and all the assistants.

Owners out up with some pretty ****ty seasons in the hope that someday they get to lift the lombardi trophy. They still keep signing the checks year after year.

GoldFour4 · 06-02-2012 01:00PM

New England Patriots

The patriots really need a massive year from Brady next year. I think they need a really good draft too. They're obviously a very good football team but I think they will decine sooner rather then later.

Syferus · 06-02-2012 01:08PM

New England Patriots

malachyscott wrote: »

I have to disagree. The nfl and other us sports would be nowhere without their owners. They sacrifice millions of dollars in salarys each year. They pay for the players to fly across the country.

Also I think its better to give the trophy to the owner because football is a team sport.Hes the representative for all the players and coaches and all the assistants.

Owners out up with some pretty ****ty seasons in the hope that someday they get to lift the lombardi trophy. They still keep signing the checks year after year.

Only a very few of them do it as a simple vanity project and even then they'd probably reconsider that if the team started hemorrhaging money. Most will jump ship given a good offer, or if things are going belly up. Owners are just as transient as any player or coach.

It's a business; we don't need to lower the romance further by presenting the trophy the coaches and players have spent their entire lives working for to the guy with a big bank account.

bryangiggsy · 06-02-2012 01:23PM

What a game!!! Gutted but really enjoyed it.

Some personal observations.

1.Throughout the game I never quite felt the Pats had a hold of it. The pendulum seemed to be swinging in NY's direction for the most part. 3 fumbles and 3 own team recoveries you normally would never see

2. I felt Wes Welker body was not in the correct position to make that catch. Hi torso looked twisted to me. He was 97% the way there but the 3% cost him. Maybe the throw was milliseconds off. Just my opinion.

3. Unbelievable sideline catch by the Giants WR. It stuck to the tip of his fingers. Sensational. I felt when he caught that ..that was it

4. Loved the parting of the red seas for the giants touchdown. U could not script that.

Great game. Great year. We'll be back.
Congrats Giants.

neilster · 06-02-2012 01:31PM

malachyscott wrote: »

The patriots really need a massive year from Brady next year. I think they need a really good draft too. They're obviously a very good football team but I think they will decine sooner rather then later.

I think this may be a bit rough ....Brady may have played some of that game hurt and the Giants probably were an improved outfit with the Pats inferior in talent than 2007 ...i think they are a grittier team ...

They have a fantastic Offensive Line .....Connolly has been good...Solder...Cannon as well as the big names Mankins ...Light ...Waters ...i think Waters will eventually return for 2012

Yes they have pass rush problems but they could package pick 27 & 31 for one of the really good pass rushers

They could use 31 on a falling Alfonzo Dennard ...welcome Ras I Dowling back at Safety with McCourtey and have a lot of secondary issues sorted. They dont have a lot of money tied up in the secondary which helps

They also have picks 48, 63 & 95 ....all nice picks

And to the deep threat again they can lose Ochocincos salary & Branch ($3.2m) which is a lot in free agency and bring in a good free agent

The pats will be back ...they are too good at what they do and only few pieces from the complete article ...i dont buy the Tom Brady woes stuff...a pile of bull

Johnny_Fontane · 06-02-2012 01:34PM

New England Patriots

was in the Capitol bar last night,fair dues to the dublin rebels, they made it a great event.

What a game though. Just went through the highlights again and what a game by eli. The pressure on him was astonishing and he just kept on delivering and delivering, particularly after they abandoned the running game half way through quarter 3. I think brady's receiving core had a bad day at the office, throw in one or two very silly penalties (12 men on the field?) and thats what cost them the game.

The intensity in that fourth quarter was remarkable, not sure I've witnessed anything like it in the NFL before.

Utopia Parkway · 06-02-2012 01:36PM

New England Patriots

malachyscott wrote: »

The patriots really need a massive year from Brady next year. I think they need a really good draft too. They're obviously a very good football team but I think they will decine sooner rather then later.

I don't see why they would decline to be honest. Unlike the 07 Patriots who were as old as the hills this is actually a pretty young Pats team. If anything they should get better. Brady is no spring chicken alright but he's probably got another few good years left in him.

They might try and get a pass rusher (although their pass rush was probably underrated this year), maybe a big WR with some speed to stretch the field and maybe some help in the secondary (but again their secondary is very young and actually played really well in the post-season I thought).

Would be very surprised if they are not back in the playoffs again next season.

UrbanSea · 06-02-2012 01:48PM

New England Patriots

Having backed the Giants,I thought my money was gone.

Welker makes that catch and the Patriots win,that was the game changing moment.

While I was up for the Giants,I still think the Patriots were the better team. They always looked good defensively, while the Giants looked like they were going to give away a touchdown every time after the first quarter for me, they were very fortunate to win. They needed to go after Brady harder than they did. Not complaining though.

human 19 · 06-02-2012 02:25PM

New England Patriots

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Decisions, decisions!

kryogen · 06-02-2012 02:33PM

New England Patriots

Brady at 34 can play for another 4-5 years at a high level imo.

His game isnt based on scrambling, that will help and having the protection he gets cant hurt either

tallaghtoutlaws · 06-02-2012 02:33PM

neilster wrote: »

The Giants Front 4 wasnt the ultimate difference maker but it was a difference maker and outplayed their counterparts where Wilfork was successfully contained ...but there were others ....

Both Front 4's added the same amount of pressure to each others offense. But I am sorry I have to 100% disagree with you here. The difference maker in that game last night was the catching ability of WR. Had Welker caught that ball game over and the pass was perfect by the way. Manningham made an amzing catch that setup the win.

Sure the Front 4 pressured Brady all night and it started off looking like it was going to be them winning the game for the Giants but they did the same amount of work as the Pats front 4 and linebackers. The fact Brady went 27/41 276 2 TD and an Int shows the front 4 didn't ultimately control the Pats Offense. Even the Int a fit Gronk probably would have gotten to but Brady flinging it to him with a dodgy ankle was stupid.

There was times in that game the Pats o-line gave Brady 5-6 seconds and plenty of time to pick off passes including the Welker pass.

Both teams played extremely well and Giants last drive was true Eli style this season and fair fooks to them great game of football. But that game could have gone either way and it was the difference of whos Receivers were going to step up and catch footballs. When it mattered the Pats WR corp failed and the Giants WR didn't.

And for the record Both QBs were outstanding last night. Both of them playing the top of their game under pressure and its for this reason why I think neither front 4 deserved the full credit for the win. As I said at the end last night it was going to take something special to win that game and Manningham did just that.

Stev_o · 06-02-2012 02:39PM

New England Patriots

Wow what a match, such an odd game in the sense that the occasion didn't seem to get to either team (to a degree) with the opening drives, Giants came out and started finding their groove which is a far cry from last years SB which took a while before either team really settled in.

Eli was brilliant and boy was he clutch as f*ck. People said how well Rogers played last year putting some tight balls in and Eli matched that last night!

For me the difference maker was Weatherford. Sounds mad right, but it's true Patriots had ****e field possession all game and he was perfect with his boot.

Sterling Moore, should be going to the Pro Bowl next year if he continues to show this promise but the Pats CB curse may strike him.

Danny Woodhead finally saw some action his way (yay), people tend to forget how explosive he can be. Delighted he got a TD but at the same way gutted cause I had a feeling all week to put a bet on him to score (felt like he'd return a kick).

Draft Time next boys can't wait!

eagle eye · 06-02-2012 02:59PM

I'm feeling pretty sick today because it was so like 4 years ago. Manningham's catch just like Tyree a couple of years ago was amazing. We should have won it but somehow the Giants got the win.

I've a new level of respect for Eli Manning, he was clutch last night just as he was a couple of years back.

The Patriot's D was excellent last night. The offense was certainly hampered by Gronk's injury and I agree with Tallaght that the receivers were the difference last night.

Only thing I have to clutch to now is that fact that we have a good young team and I think we can only improve next year. We still need the deep threat receiver.

The one thing that puzzled me last night was how we suddenly went back to being so one-sided on offense. We seemed to want to pass the ball on every play bar a couple. I've thought we looked so much better this year when we had balance. Its made teams respect the run too and Brady gets less pressure as a result. We've won comfortably in every game when we had a decent balance in playcalling between the passing and running game. One of our two best receiving threats was injured last night so there was even more reason to have a balanced attack.

Johnny_Fontane · 06-02-2012 03:14PM

New England Patriots

the manningham catch was a great play, but I dont think you can compare to Tyree's catch. it was a 1st and 10 with time on the clock and timeouts.

I found the bradshaw td at the end very bemusing. did the patriots 'let' him score? or was it incredible blocking by the nyg o line?

Nicks is a bit of a forgotten hero in all this, he had ten catches for over 100 yards....he was immense.

D.R Adams · 06-02-2012 03:25PM

New England Patriots

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Both teams played extremely well and Giants last drive was true Eli style this season and fair fooks to them great game of football. But that game could have gone either way and it was the difference of whos Receivers were going to step up and catch footballs. When it mattered the Pats WR corp failed and the Giants WR didn't

100% correct, the Giants WR's were catching passes all night, Nicks & Cruz caught some great over the middle balls, Pats just didn't have that threat, and the Manningham catch was prob catch of the year. Again like you said tallaghtoutlaws, Eli has been the master of 4th Qtr comebacks all year and he proved it once again. He didn't do an awful lot on 3rd and long yesterday which did surprise me because he had been known for it all year but how and ever he is waking up today to another SB ring and MVP.

Well done Giants!

themont85 · 06-02-2012 03:44PM

Syferus wrote: »

Only a very few of them do it as a simple vanity project and even then they'd probably reconsider that if the team started hemorrhaging money. Most will jump ship given a good offer, or if things are going belly up. Owners are just as transient as any player or coach.

It's a business; we don't need to lower the romance further by presenting the trophy the coaches and players have spent their entire lives working for to the guy with a big bank account.

This comes up every year. There's a couple of things.

First, unlike a Soccer or Rugby club even, American sports teams have always been franchises with owners. Other sports have arrived later at this point and have a tradition of the captain of the club taking the trophy. The tradition of the guy who stumped up the money receiving the trophy is long established.

Secondly, who do you want to lift the trophy? There are multiple captains. The General Manager is as important as the Head Coach.

As the overall leader of the organisation I don't have a problem with it.

Stev_o · 06-02-2012 03:53PM

New England Patriots

Tbh this year has very much felt like Brady saying "we win on my shoulders alone and I call the shots". It was obvious that it was Bradys decision all year long to put the ball in his hands and not Lawfirm/Woodhead, and then he got to "I don't care if your open I don't trust you" syndrome which no doubt hurted him when suddenly Gronk couldn't do jack and he was forced to go spread the ball. If anything it nearly felt like a deja vu game offesnively for the Pats v Jets last year. No deep threat, costly interception and dropped passes and a unwillingness to run it.

Problem is unless the Pats get Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe they won't sort out their problem of no WR to stretch the field cause we all know BB is going CB again in the first round.

Syferus · 06-02-2012 04:06PM

New England Patriots

themont85 wrote: »

This comes up every year. There's a couple of things.

First, unlike a Soccer or Rugby club even, American sports teams have always been franchises with owners. Other sports have arrived later at this point and have a tradition of the captain of the club taking the trophy. The tradition of the guy who stumped up the money receiving the trophy is long established.

Secondly, who do you want to lift the trophy? There are multiple captains. The General Manager is as important as the Head Coach.

As the overall leader of the organisation I don't have a problem with it.

It's pretty simple - you designate a captain to accept the trophy, maybe in conjunction with the head coach. It would create a far more indelible moment than some old guy with a cheque book (and no offense, but their jobs are the most replaceable in the entire league) lifting a trophy he may or may not have had much of an impact in winning.

The Lombardi has a football on it for a reason.

tallaghtoutlaws · 06-02-2012 04:13PM

Syferus wrote: »

It's pretty simple - you designate a captain to accept the trophy, maybe in conjunction with the head coach. It would create a far more indelible moment than some old guy with a cheque book (and no offense, but their jobs are the most replaceable in the entire league) lifting a trophy he may or may not have had much of an impact in winning.

The Lombardi has a football on it for a reason.

Who cares? Take the Krafts for example they are well respected in the Patriots locker rooms and try to instill the family mentality throughout the locker room and the players respect them for it and they would be happy to have them on stage. And this can be said for most owners, I bet if you ask most players do they care that the upper management are up there getting the trophy with them, you will probably find they dont care.

themont85 · 06-02-2012 04:18PM

Syferus wrote: »

It's pretty simple - you designate a captain to accept the trophy, maybe in conjunction with the head coach. It would create a far more indelible moment than some old guy with a cheque book (and no offense, but their jobs are the most replaceable in the entire league) lifting a trophy he may or may not have had much of an impact in winning.

The Lombardi has a football on it for a reason.

It's the same with Horse Racing owner isn't it?

Why do you want to change a tradition in itself? Why designate one captain and put the HC over the GM? It's a team game.

The owner works fine as the team figurehead. The buck stops with him. Saying they are just as transient as players or coaches is absolutely laughable. So the Rooneys, Maras, George Halas were all transient sticking around for decades in what at times was a really poor business.

As for iconic, Art Rooney getting the SB trophy in 74 is one of the most iconic moments ever.

Hazys · 06-02-2012 04:19PM

The Pats need WRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Giants pass rush was meh but their secondary won the game. i think the Pats first offensive play of the game summed it up, Brady had all the time in the world in the pocket but nobody could get open and eventually the pass rush got to him

Our WRs are shocking, we have no outside threat at all. Nobody can get open. Wes is great but who else do we have? I love Deion but Deion is too old, Chad Johnson is useless and too old now and thats it, nobody outside is a threat...nobody.

I hate to say it but we need to spend big on a WR in free agency (i dunno if there is even a marque WR available this year), draft picks are waaaay to risky on the WR position and we have wasted enough (my no17 chad jackson jersey is testament to that), we need to guarantee ourselves a proper WR.

Our defense played well again, our offense couldn't score 21 points. It was probably one of the worst quality super bowls i have ever seen but the giants played big on offense when it mattered the pats didn't.

My silver lining is at least the Pats have 2 first round picks next year...but the Pats have 2 first round picks every year

themont85 · 06-02-2012 04:20PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Who cares? Take the Krafts for example they are well respected in the Patriots locker rooms and try to instill the family mentality throughout the locker room and the players respect them for it and they would be happy to have them on stage. And this can be said for most owners, I bet if you ask most players do they care that the upper management are up there getting the trophy with them, you will probably find they dont care.

Not only that but we may not have even have had a football season this year if it wasn't for Bob Kraft getting other owners in line during the CBA.

Johnny_Fontane · 06-02-2012 04:44PM

New England Patriots

Hazys wrote: »

The Pats need WRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is a bit ridiculous.....every team needs something! and saying the pats need wr's is a total joke. brady has tons of targets, including two te's that are basically wr's!

look at poor tebow, how many targets does he have!

pats need a proper RB and a secondary way before worrying about their offense....

Hazys · 06-02-2012 04:47PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

this is a bit ridiculous.....every team needs something! and saying the pats need wr's is a total joke. brady has tons of targets, including two te's that are basically wr's!

look at poor tebow, how many targets does he have!

pats need a proper RB and a secondary way before worrying about their offense....

Seriously tho, would Deion Branch be starting for any other NFL team?

Utopia Parkway · 06-02-2012 04:49PM

New England Patriots

Hazys wrote: »

The Pats need WRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Giants pass rush was meh but their secondary won the game. i think the Pats first offensive play of the game summed it up, Brady had all the time in the world in the pocket but nobody could get open and eventually the pass rush got to him

Our WRs are shocking, we have no outside threat at all. Nobody can get open. Wes is great but who else do we have? I love Deion but Deion is too old, Chad Johnson is useless and too old now and thats it, nobody outside is a threat...nobody.

I hate to say it but we need to spend big on a WR in free agency (i dunno if there is even a marque WR available this year), draft picks are waaaay to risky on the WR position and we have wasted enough (my no17 chad jackson jersey is testament to that), we need to guarantee ourselves a proper WR.

Our defense played well again, our offense couldn't score 21 points. It was probably one of the worst quality super bowls i have ever seen but the giants played big on offense when it mattered the pats didn't.

My silver lining is at least the Pats have 2 first round picks next year...but the Pats have 2 first round picks every year

Wouldn't be too hard on the Pats. They came very close to winning that game and that was with Gronkowski being virtually a non-factor due to his injury. With Gronk hurt Brady basically only had two reliable targets to throw to, Welker and Hernandez.

Pats O-Line played really well. The D-Line got after Eli and while the secondary gave up some yards their red zone defence was fantastic. Eli only threw 1 TD. If you told the Pats before the game that Eli would only throw 1 TD they would have taken that immediately and really fancied their chances.

The game came down to tiny margins. Two catches. One made and one missed. Giants fumbling 3 times but getting away with it each time.

tallaghtoutlaws · 06-02-2012 04:50PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

this is a bit ridiculous.....every team needs something! and saying the pats need wr's is a total joke. brady has tons of targets, including two te's that are basically wr's!

look at poor tebow, how many targets does he have!

pats need a proper RB and a secondary way before worrying about their offense....

What? The Pats clearly need Recievers and the type they need is an outside deep threat. Most of the Pats success this season has been across the middle using Welker and the Tight Ends doesn't change the fact they need a clear go to go on the outside who will open up the passing game.

As for needing a RB. Why do people seem to think that is a major need. The problem is finding a back who will be effective from the Gun singleback system or spread system and I find Law Firm does that well. Ridley and Vereen will also open that up for us. Our secondary, Wide Receivers and linebackers are needs. If we can get a solid back deep down in the draft to add to depth it could work but I dont see the need to take one high at all.

And Branch is aging and until Brady trusts Ocho I dont see him being a factor so to state the obvious an need is at WR.

eagle eye · 06-02-2012 04:54PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

this is a bit ridiculous.....every team needs something! and saying the pats need wr's is a total joke. brady has tons of targets, including two te's that are basically wr's!

look at poor tebow, how many targets does he have!

pats need a proper RB and a secondary way before worrying about their offense....

Really I don't want to get into this today of all days but you don't seem to understand the game. We don't have a deep threat to spread out the opposing defense. They know we are not a threat going long and they can cover whoever goes deep man to man. They don't need safety help and it makes it tough for us to complete mid-range passes becuase there is safety help for those defenders. If we have a premium big fast receiver then it all changes and its been an issue for the last two seasons with Moss struggling and now Ochocinco struggling this season. If we get that deep threat then it means there will be a hole somewhere in the defense and when you have an elite QB who reads a defense as quickly as Tom Brady then you are going to be in trouble because he will find that hole.

Superbowl XLVI

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