Digital TV installation for less than 50 quid ;)

watty · 06-02-2012 12:13AM

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

Compton · 06-02-2012 12:25AM

watty wrote: »

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

Because personally, I know that I don't watch TV for more than an hour a day, unless there is a match on (not on saorview).
I definitely won't be looking up digital text, playing games, browsing youtube or whatever they add onto the interactive services. I have a laptop for information, and a TV to watch TV.

Not starting an argument here, just saying, I know for a fact that I don't need MHEG 5.

Onikage · 06-02-2012 10:05AM

watty wrote: »

But you are making a common wrong assumption.

It's not just a new version of teletext. It's a "platform" for running TV related Apps. No-one can say what you might miss if your TV or Setbox is a generic cripple and can't do MHEG5.

Freeview and Freesat Interactive also use the same version of MHEG5. There may also be Enhanced EPG, or on boxes/TV with ethernet, Internet applications or "catch up" TV.

Apps? Seriously? MHEG5 has ZERO chance of delivering an experience superior to Flash 1.0

Not worth bothering with IMHO. Better to buy a cheap netbook if you want that kind of stuff

Sam Russell · 06-02-2012 11:12AM

watty wrote: »

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

If MHEG5 is that important, how come RTE have given no indication what they have planned for it?

RTE NL and RTE have failed to implement series link for recording - giving the excuse that there are no approved PVRs certified, which is clearly nonsense. BBC started DVD-T2 broadcasts before any kit was available to receive it. RTE have the spec, they should start using it. Equally, it would be useful if they started broadcasting at least one channel using the various audio CODECs that are part of Nordig 2.2 so people could check out their equipment.

I suspect that MHEG5 will be used as an added cost (or lower value) to the viewer, such as pay-per-view, extra advertising, or some such scheme. We shall see, but I am sure few will be at a loss if they have not got MHEG5. Aertel is a scheme that brings limited information but much advertising to my TV, and it is not used much. I assume MHEG5 will do more of the same.

CiniO · 06-02-2012 11:18AM

In general though at the moment MHEG5 is used only for teletext and Aertel which I'm not using.
In future it might be used for something else, but no one know when and for what, so I don't really regret my equipment don't have it - even opposite - I prefer 100x more my Ferguson Ariva, than Saorview approved Bush or others like that

Whenever anything interesting will be available through MHEG5, I can always change the tuner.

watty · 06-02-2012 11:26AM

RTE NL and RTE have failed to implement series link for recording - giving the excuse that there are no approved PVRs certified, which is clearly nonsense.

Actually, no, originally they said it was because they didn't yet have the playout system configured.

There are no Saorview PVRs and no-one is entirely clear what incompatibilities the Humax and Sony "Freesat+ HD" PVRs have.

RTE like BBC did start transmission before there were any boxes or TVs certified for the system.

watty · 06-02-2012 11:38AM

If MHEG5 is that important, how come RTE have given no indication what they have planned for it?

The WHOLE point of MHEG5 is that you don't need to know what you are going to deliver, unlike Analogue Era when any feature had to be built into the TV (such as Teletext, Accented characters on Teletext, Subtitles, channel names, Stereo and even photos on Teletext-1970s!).

The point of a standard is that whatever features the Broadcaster advertises on air, in the guide and implements is that they "just work" for everyone.

France quite rightly made French Retail sale of equipment not meeting French Digital Standards illegal. You can still import whatever you want personally.

Here has been a mess over the last few years with many retailers/Wholesale/Makers even deliberately "dumping" obsolete German (stuck on badges on box and remote!) and UK stuff here instead of selling compatible gear or warning people. They are still at it.

It's fine for people to make a personal decision to buy a "crippled" cheap generic box or combo. It's not fine to use Boards as a public Platform to promote them. Especially equipment that doesn't have the Irish/UK three pin plug fitted. Retailers are obliged by law that all equipment has the proper 3 pin plug (the Earth pin needs to be there by law even if it's plastic and not connected as using the wall sockets otherwise is potentially lethal. The plug also MUST legally have a fuse, even if sealed in it and not user replaceable as in the case of plug top chargers).

watty · 06-02-2012 11:42AM

Onikage wrote: »

Apps? Seriously? MHEG5 has ZERO chance of delivering an experience superior to Flash 1.0

Not worth bothering with IMHO. Better to buy a cheap netbook if you want that kind of stuff

Really you need to research. You don't know what you are talking about. We are not talking about Apple (which doesn't have Flash at all) or Android.

Have you used BBC Red Button Wimbledon or Walking with Dinosaurs?

CiniO · 06-02-2012 12:08PM

watty wrote: »

It's fine for people to make a personal decision to buy a "crippled" cheap generic box or combo. It's not fine to use Boards as a public Platform to promote them.

Just to clarify - I'm not promoting anything.
I just decided to share, that such equipment works, even it's not "saorview approved".
Thank's to your posts, we all know now it doesn't have MHEG5 and what are the consequences of that.
However I still don't agree it's a cheap crippled generic box.
Ferguson used to do radio equipment for nearly a century, so I'm sure they have enough experience to make good quality tv tuners.

Especially equipment that doesn't have the Irish/UK three pin plug fitted. Retailers are obliged by law that all equipment has the proper 3 pin plug (the Earth pin needs to be there by law even if it's plastic and not connected as using the wall sockets otherwise is potentially lethal. The plug also MUST legally have a fuse, even if sealed in it and not user replaceable as in the case of plug top chargers).

That what these are for:

Onikage · 06-02-2012 12:11PM

watty wrote: »

Really you need to research. You don't know what you are talking about. We are not talking about Apple (which doesn't have Flash at all) or Android.

Have you used BBC Red Button Wimbledon or Walking with Dinosaurs?

I have indeed researched the spec, and used the simulator to run these so-called "apps". Have you? If not,you can get started here: http://redbutton.sourcfeforge.net
No need for the ad hominems btw.

My conclusion is that MHEG5 as a technology is about 10 years behind the times, like Flash 1.0. I don't get your reference to Apple or Android (A company and an operating system?) because they are totally unrelated to anything I said.

I don't understand your crusade to convince people of the benefits of MHEG5 at all. It should be clear by now that many people neither need nor want it.

Peter Rhea · 06-02-2012 12:33PM

CiniO wrote: »

Just to clarify - I'm not promoting anything.
I just decided to share, that such equipment works, even it's not "saorview approved".

You should have taken more care over your thread title.

Ferguson used to do radio equipment for nearly a century, so I'm sure they have enough experience to make good quality tv tuners.

I would think it's just badge engineering at this stage . . .

watty · 06-02-2012 01:01PM

Adobe is abandoning Flash.

No-one here can say that no-one needs or wants MHEG5, that's arrogance of the first order.

Onikage · 06-02-2012 01:46PM

watty wrote: »

Adobe is abandoning Flash.

No-one here can say that no-one needs or wants MHEG5, that's arrogance of the first order.

Adobe is...? Another non-sequitur and basically untrue, you are conflating Flash the product and Flash the technology. Adobe are going forwards with "new" technologies based on flash, not backwards. MHEG5 is MORE LIMITED in what it can do than Adobe software released in the early 00's. Anyone can verify that easily.

I don't need or want MHEG5. It simply does not provide me with enough value for the premium it commands. Everyone is free to make that decision for themselves.

Peter Rhea · 06-02-2012 02:58PM

Onikage wrote: »

I don't need or want MHEG5. It simply does not provide me with enough value for the premium it commands. Everyone is free to make that decision for themselves.

They are, they just shouldn't refer to a tv installation based on non-MHEG5 equipment as 'Saorview'.

CiniO · 06-02-2012 03:08PM

Peter Rhea wrote: »

They are, they just shouldn't refer to a tv installation based on non-MHEG5 equipment as 'Saorview'.

Got the point.
Subject changed.

stevenf17 · 06-02-2012 04:04PM

My Soarview Aerial

1 meter of coaxial, 1 electrical connector and 1 TV connector, simples!

Not suitable for everyone, but if your fairly close to a broadcast tower it works like a charm!

CiniO · 06-02-2012 04:07PM

stevenf17 wrote: »

My Soarview Aerial

1 meter of coaxial, 1 electrical connector and 1 TV connector, simples!

Not suitable for everyone, but if your fairly close to a broadcast tower it works like a charm!

How far are you?

stevenf17 · 06-02-2012 04:27PM

CiniO wrote: »

How far are you?

I actually didn't know so just looked it up here http://coverage.rtenl.ie/RTENLcoveragechecker.php
but by the looks of it I'm about 2km from the tower. (Greystones is surrounded by hills/mountains so we have our own tower)
So yeah I suppose i'm much closer than most people! Then again I don't know if the tower is much less powered because it only has a much smaller area to cover.

No harm for people to try out though.... you'd be surprised how many people would have most the parts lying around the house/garage!

Here's a video describing how to make it if anyone's interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxHXP...eature=related

CiniO · 06-02-2012 05:12PM

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If you're receiving a strong enough signal from the transmitter, it will be sufficient to overcome the polarity discrimination of the aerial. Obviously it's better to do it right.

Here's a pic of a vertically polarised log-periodic type aerial.

OK, as I said, so I did.
I went again up the roof and flipped aerial by 90 degrees.
There is no difference on saorview. My tuner still shows 80% signal.
However now my analog tv started working. As well when I plug in this aerial into radio i receives lots of channels, while before it wasn't really getting any.

Definitely aerial was incorrectly setup, but what makes me wonder is saorview - why is the no any difference.

Maybe Achill transmitter sends it's signal in both vertical and horizontal polarization, even though it says it's only vertical.

watty · 06-02-2012 06:31PM

Once you have more than a certain threshold Saorview is perfect.

Your TV or setbox "meter" isn't very accurate either.

Digital not only has more coverage than Analogue already but a lot of RTE's claimed 95% Analogue coverage is actually very poor.

lawhec · 07-02-2012 01:45AM

Onikage wrote: »

Apps? Seriously? MHEG5 has ZERO chance of delivering an experience superior to Flash 1.0

MHEG5 should be thought of along the same lines as HTML - MHEG5 itself doesn't display video and images, but displays video and images as called upon in its code in formats like JPEG and MPEG4. It is also being continually developed, with the latest version allowing the display of video and images not just from the multiplex it is being carried, but also via IP protocols over the internet. Freeview HD receivers which meet the latest D-Book standard can already achieve this; at present there is just a channel called "Sports Tonight" which is mainly Talksport on a camera, and a three-video service by CCTV of China of CCTV news, CCTV4 and CCTV9 which is selected using a MHEG5 interface. However more services are planned for launch with an initial focus on foreign language programming.

MHEG5, at least compared to MHP, has been quite successful in delivering "interactive" services across a common standard; it does not require a large amount of processing power nor a big amount of data space on a multiplex, is royalty free and continues to be developed even though it was first developed in the late 90's. While I would agree that the user experience of text services intended to replace the likes of Teletext is not as good in my own opinion as WST, MHEG can do much more than traditional teletext - "red button" services, internet streaming, simple encryption use (showing hidden streams), pop up messaging are some I can think of. If anything may supersede MHEG, it's likely to be HbbTV.

If I get time this week, I'll get a video up on YouTube of the Freeview HD MHEG-IC services.

Tony · 07-02-2012 07:45PM

CiniO wrote: »

Ferguson used to do radio equipment for nearly a century, so I'm sure they have enough experience to make good quality tv tuners.

Actually the Ferguson company in Poland is not the same one that has been in the UK for many years but thats not to say they don't make good tuners

Sam Russell · 07-02-2012 08:52PM

I think the OP should be congratulated on a very cost effective solution. If in the future he is under pressure to get MHEG5, he just needs to get a Saorview approved box or iDTV. By that time it might even be a Saorview Approved PVR that he gets.

By the way, the box he has uses the Mstar 5818 chipset which gives excellent picture quality.

Tony · 07-02-2012 08:56PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the OP should be congratulated on a very cost effective solution.

Indeed yes

Ronnie Raygun · 07-02-2012 08:58PM

Only for the fact the OP is in a decent signal area, the install wouldn't have worked at all.

Remember the cheap price is due solely to the fact that they happened to be on a trip to Poland, it's of no relevance whatsoever to the general reader here.

Sam Russell · 07-02-2012 10:13PM

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Only for the fact the OP is in a decent signal area, the install wouldn't have worked at all.

Remember the cheap price is due solely to the fact that they happened to be on a trip to Poland, it's of no relevance whatsoever to the general reader here.

That might be, but he should be congratulated on seeing a good solution at a cheap price. The product he bought is equivalent to product available from China at a simillar price, but delivery might take some time, and perhaps a degree of risk.

Well done OP.

Digital TV installation for less than 50 quid ;)

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