Digital TV installation for less than 50 quid ;)

CiniO

I didn't have any aerial at my house before (I was just using satellite dish) but decided I'll try saorview as 7 Irish channels seemed tempting.

I did my shopping while on holidays in Poland.



Aerial like that - €8

Digital tuner - Ferguson Ariva T65 - €35.

15m of coaxial cable + few plugs - €7.

Total: €50

It took me about 1h to install it.
Aerial is directional so I had to point it out exactly to transmitter, but I suppose I did. Transmitter is 25 km away (on Achill island) but I could see it with binoculars. My tuner shows signal strength 80% but it seems enough as there are not any problems with picture quality.

Only my neighbours were looking at me bit suspicious when they saw me on my roof with binoculars.

Generally speaking it was just about time to get Irish TV after 5 years living here

FRIENDO

Hi CiniO,

Well done.

Did the aerial come with a mounting bracket or poll ?

How did you get the aerial back from Poland ?

watty

If you have a Saorview TV and aerial works in an attic, then an install could be €5

It's a misleading thread title.

How did you get the aerial back from Poland ?

Never mind that, how did he get it on the Chimney pole and where is cost of mount?

FRIENDO

I would like to know how CiniO got the aerial back from Poland.

CiniO, did it also come with a poll and mount ?

CiniO

FRIENDO wrote: »

Hi CiniO,

Well done.

Did the aerial come with a mounting bracket or poll ?

No it didn't.
I had a bracket already, as I used it before for my wireless internet, which I don't use anymore.

But if I had to buy it together with aerial it would be about €4.
Something like that:

How did you get the aerial back from Poland ?

I was there on holidays and I drove back so I took it in my boot

CiniO

watty wrote: »

If you have a Saorview TV and aerial works in an attic, then an install could be €5

It's a misleading thread title.

Probably you are right. I forgot to mention I didn't have an aerial and my TV is not saorview ready.

Never mind that, how did he get it on the Chimney pole and where is cost of mount?

I did the work myself so it didn't cost me anything.

watty

But how did you get on the roof?

The bracket you show is unsuitable for chimneys, I meant the cost of the Chimney mount hardware.

Just for anyone new reading the forum, here are the approved products that ahve Guarantee of Compatibility with Saorview:
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

I don't think the Ferguson is on the list.

So
1) A Saorview install that is DIY and involves a Certified Setbox and Aerial above peak of roof (both the minimum) is much more than €50

2) If you need a professional it's a lot more.

My Saorview "Install" cost nothing. Or €20
My son bought a TV that works
I bought a Dual DTT stick for Media PC
Our aerial for Analogue TV and distribution amp works perfectly.

FRIENDO

I had wondered how.

Postage for such an item aerial and pole from Poland would be expensive and if the aerial did not work this would be more expense.

I don't think you would be allowed to carry such items through airport passenger screening in hand luggage to board a passenger aircraft (aerial, you would be taking a chance and may have to leave item for disposal or return to check in, you would not be allowed bring a pole in hand luggage).

Over size luggage can often be expensive or extra weight can be costly.

Driving would be the only way to get value, however would be most costly if you just drove for an aerial.

You could also compare Polish prices with many other Irish Prices as been better value, if you happen to be driving for leisure.

Thanks CiniO,
If I need an aerial or other items I will be contacting an Irish shop in future.

CiniO

watty wrote: »

But how did you get on the roof?

Through the roof window

The bracket you show is unsuitable for chimneys, I meant the cost of the Chimney mount hardware.

It suits my chimney and it was there for last 4 years, as it was used for wireless broadband.

Just for anyone new reading the forum, here are the approved products that ahve Guarantee of Compatibility with Saorview:
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

I don't think the Ferguson is on the list.

I wasn't sure actually if Ferguson will be 100% compatibile, but from basic tech spec I checked it looked it should work.
After installing it, I know it works 100% for me now. Therefore I can't see any difference between this and Saorview approved stuff.

So
1) A Saorview install that is DIY and involves a Certified Setbox and Aerial above peak of roof (both the minimum) is much more than €50

I actually thought that Ferguson is quite good class equipment, way better than some offered as Saorview approved, and therefore more expensive.

Why should the aerial be above peak of the roof? I didn't put it above and it works. But I'm not professional

2) If you need a professional it's a lot more.

That's for sure.

CiniO

FRIENDO wrote: »

I had wondered how.

Postage for such an item aerial and pole from Poland would be expensive and if the aerial did not work this would be more expense.

I don't think you would be allowed to carry such items through airport passenger screening in hand luggage to board a passenger aircraft (aerial, you would be taking a chance and may have to leave item for disposal or return to check in, you would not be allowed bring a pole in hand luggage).

Over size luggage can often be expensive or extra weight can be costly.

Driving would be the only way to get value, however would be most costly if you just drove for an aerial.

You could also compare Polish prices with many other Irish Prices as been better value, if you happen to be driving for leisure.

Thanks CiniO,
If I need an aerial or other items I will be contacting an Irish shop in future.

I don't think there would be any chance of them letting me to take aerial or mounting pole into flights handluggage.

Besides I've just seen almost the same aerial in argos catalogue for about €15 so difference in price is almost negligible.

However tuner which I grabbed for €35 quid I just found on Irish ebay for €55 + €10 postage, which is almost double the price.

FRIENDO

The Ferguson you bought is not Saorview approved.

I got a Vision Saorview approved set top box in Power city on sale for 50Euro.

I find it hard to believe that Ferguson box is "Saorview compitable" or approved,
No MHEG 5, http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Ferguson-Ariva-T65-HD-Digital-MPEG4-Saorview-Compatible-PVR-/150736931169?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item23189f0961 This add is possibly misleading to the public.


A Saorview approved set top box.
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-23-DI1180&pages=&prod=DI1180&brands=DIGIHOME&image=

CiniO

FRIENDO wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that Ferguson box is "Saorview compitable" or approved,
No MHEG 5, http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Ferguson-Ariva-T65-HD-Digital-MPEG4-Saorview-Compatible-PVR-/150736931169?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item23189f0961 This add is possibly misleading to the public.

What functionality does MHEG 5 add to the tuner?

Compton

Digital Text, Aertel.

Peter Rhea

Did you mount the aerial with vertical polarisation?

JRH

Dam ... good price

Still don't beat china from your armchair
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-Digital-Scart-DVB-T-Terrestrial-Receiver-True-HD-H-264-MPEG4-TV-BOX-HDMI-IR-/160727704359?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item256c1e2327

includes CE approved double insulated PSU :pac:

FRIENDO

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/Minimum_Receiver_Requirements_5.pdf
If you read section 5.5. of the above link (MHEG 5 Supertext and EBU teletext).

A link from Saorview on approved products.
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/

CiniO

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Did you mount the aerial with vertical polarisation?

I mount it exactly as it's shown on the picture...
Is it vertical polarisation?

Peter Rhea

No, the picture shows a horizontally polarised aerial; Achill transmits vertically polarised signals.

The aerial should be rotated longitudinally through 90 degrees so that the elements are perpendicular to the ground.

CiniO

Peter Rhea wrote: »

No, the picture shows a horizontally polarised aerial; Achill transmits vertically polarised signals.

The aerial should be rotated longitudinally through 90 degrees so that the elements are perpendicular to the ground.

Hmmm.
Then I have my aerial incorrectly installed.
Is it possible that with such setup I'm getting 80% signal strenght and my picture quality i brilliant?

CiniO

FRIENDO wrote: »

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/Minimum_Receiver_Requirements_5.pdf
If you read section 5.5. of the above link (MHEG 5 Supertext and EBU teletext).

A link from Saorview on approved products.
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/

All-right.
Most likely that's the reason why it's not saorview approved.
Anyway I'm not using teletext service, and I never did, so no difference for me.

watty

CiniO wrote: »

What functionality does MHEG 5 add to the tuner?

Anything the broadcasters want. Today some text with pictures. It's a HUGE step up from Teletext which is a built in thing on the TV. MHEG5 lets the broadcaster add or change the features. Unlike Teletext on Analogue it's a "must have" feature and mandatory for compatibility

http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Peter Rhea

CiniO wrote: »

Is it possible that with such setup I'm getting 80% signal strenght and my picture quality i brilliant?

Which UHF channel are you receiving the Saorview channels on?

Compton

watty wrote: »

Anything the broadcasters want. Today some text with pictures. It's a HUGE step up from Teletext which is a built in thing on the TV. MHEG5 lets the broadcaster add or change the features. Unlike Teletext on Analogue it's a "must have" feature and mandatory for compatibility

http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Yes, but a lot of people don't use it, and have no use for it. Like myself.

CiniO

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Which UHF channel are you receiving the Saorview channels on?

I just checked it.

It's channel 47.
Frequency - 682Mhz

danjo

CiniO wrote: »

Hmmm.
Then I have my aerial incorrectly installed.
Is it possible that with such setup I'm getting 80% signal strenght and my picture quality i brilliant?

Yes, it is possible. I have seen an antenna facing in the wrong direction and still providing an excellent signal. An antenna should discriminate between polarisation and front to back but in areas of strong signal the antenna can often provide sufficient level. I would however set it to the correct polarisation.
Overall a great price, well done!

Peter Rhea

If you're receiving a strong enough signal from the transmitter, it will be sufficient to overcome the polarity discrimination of the aerial. Obviously it's better to do it right.

Here's a pic of a vertically polarised log-periodic type aerial.

CiniO

danjo wrote: »

Yes, it is possible. I have seen an antenna facing in the wrong direction and still providing an excellent signal. An antenna should discriminate between polarisation and front to back but in areas of strong signal the antenna can often provide sufficient level. I would however set it to the correct polarisation.
Overall a great price, well done!

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If you're receiving a strong enough signal from the transmitter, it will be sufficient to overcome the polarity discrimination of the aerial. Obviously it's better to do it right.

Here's a pic of a vertically polarised log-periodic type aerial.

So generally tomorrow I'll just have to go to the roof and flip my aerial by 90 degrees

Saorview works perfectly, but actually I was trying as well to set some channels on analog TV and couldn't really find anything.
I thought maybe analog tuner on TV was broken, but now I understand it's most likely because of incorrect aerial setup.

watty

shblob wrote: »

Yes, but a lot of people don't use it, and have no use for it. Like myself.

But you are making a common wrong assumption.

It's not just a new version of teletext. It's a "platform" for running TV related Apps. No-one can say what you might miss if your TV or Setbox is a generic cripple and can't do MHEG5.

Freeview and Freesat Interactive also use the same version of MHEG5. There may also be Enhanced EPG, or on boxes/TV with ethernet, Internet applications or "catch up" TV.

St Senan

CiniO wrote: »

Saorview works perfectly, but actually I was trying as well to set some channels on analog TV and couldn't really find anything.
I thought maybe analog tuner on TV was broken, but now I understand it's most likely because of incorrect aerial setup.

Have you connected your set top box to the TV through 1 of these as well
http://ahtianzheng.en.made-in-china.com/product/PoYmLDBTXwhS/China-CATV-Cable-Antenna-Cable-9-5-Male-to-Female.html it will bring Analouge to your TV although you wont probably need Analouge now.

CiniO

scaller wrote: »

Have you connected your set top box to the TV through 1 of these as well
http://ahtianzheng.en.made-in-china.com/product/PoYmLDBTXwhS/China-CATV-Cable-Antenna-Cable-9-5-Male-to-Female.html it will bring Analouge to your TV although you wont probably need Analouge now.

Of course I did. Otherwise it just couldn't work.
Even though it still didn't work really.
I only could find TG4 with actually very bad quality.

Compton

watty wrote: »

But you are making a common wrong assumption.

It's not just a new version of teletext. It's a "platform" for running TV related Apps. No-one can say what you might miss if your TV or Setbox is a generic cripple and can't do MHEG5.

Freeview and Freesat Interactive also use the same version of MHEG5. There may also be Enhanced EPG, or on boxes/TV with ethernet, Internet applications or "catch up" TV.

Yes, but if people like myself just watch TV, we are not missing anything.

watty

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

Compton

watty wrote: »

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

Because personally, I know that I don't watch TV for more than an hour a day, unless there is a match on (not on saorview).
I definitely won't be looking up digital text, playing games, browsing youtube or whatever they add onto the interactive services. I have a laptop for information, and a TV to watch TV.

Not starting an argument here, just saying, I know for a fact that I don't need MHEG 5.

Onikage

watty wrote: »

But you are making a common wrong assumption.

It's not just a new version of teletext. It's a "platform" for running TV related Apps. No-one can say what you might miss if your TV or Setbox is a generic cripple and can't do MHEG5.

Freeview and Freesat Interactive also use the same version of MHEG5. There may also be Enhanced EPG, or on boxes/TV with ethernet, Internet applications or "catch up" TV.

Apps? Seriously? MHEG5 has ZERO chance of delivering an experience superior to Flash 1.0

Not worth bothering with IMHO. Better to buy a cheap netbook if you want that kind of stuff

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

But how will you know?

People with a Generic satellite box don't know what they are missing compared to a Freesat box or a Skybox.

If you never listen to the Radio (not just RTE or Local) you don't know what you are missing.

If can't or don't read you don't know what you are missing. A very strange argument you have for a brand new service just in it's infancy. Maybe it will be pointless, but how can you know in advance?

If MHEG5 is that important, how come RTE have given no indication what they have planned for it?

RTE NL and RTE have failed to implement series link for recording - giving the excuse that there are no approved PVRs certified, which is clearly nonsense. BBC started DVD-T2 broadcasts before any kit was available to receive it. RTE have the spec, they should start using it. Equally, it would be useful if they started broadcasting at least one channel using the various audio CODECs that are part of Nordig 2.2 so people could check out their equipment.

I suspect that MHEG5 will be used as an added cost (or lower value) to the viewer, such as pay-per-view, extra advertising, or some such scheme. We shall see, but I am sure few will be at a loss if they have not got MHEG5. Aertel is a scheme that brings limited information but much advertising to my TV, and it is not used much. I assume MHEG5 will do more of the same.

CiniO

In general though at the moment MHEG5 is used only for teletext and Aertel which I'm not using.
In future it might be used for something else, but no one know when and for what, so I don't really regret my equipment don't have it - even opposite - I prefer 100x more my Ferguson Ariva, than Saorview approved Bush or others like that

Whenever anything interesting will be available through MHEG5, I can always change the tuner.

watty

RTE NL and RTE have failed to implement series link for recording - giving the excuse that there are no approved PVRs certified, which is clearly nonsense.

Actually, no, originally they said it was because they didn't yet have the playout system configured.

There are no Saorview PVRs and no-one is entirely clear what incompatibilities the Humax and Sony "Freesat+ HD" PVRs have.

RTE like BBC did start transmission before there were any boxes or TVs certified for the system.

watty

If MHEG5 is that important, how come RTE have given no indication what they have planned for it?

The WHOLE point of MHEG5 is that you don't need to know what you are going to deliver, unlike Analogue Era when any feature had to be built into the TV (such as Teletext, Accented characters on Teletext, Subtitles, channel names, Stereo and even photos on Teletext-1970s!).

The point of a standard is that whatever features the Broadcaster advertises on air, in the guide and implements is that they "just work" for everyone.

France quite rightly made French Retail sale of equipment not meeting French Digital Standards illegal. You can still import whatever you want personally.

Here has been a mess over the last few years with many retailers/Wholesale/Makers even deliberately "dumping" obsolete German (stuck on badges on box and remote!) and UK stuff here instead of selling compatible gear or warning people. They are still at it.

It's fine for people to make a personal decision to buy a "crippled" cheap generic box or combo. It's not fine to use Boards as a public Platform to promote them. Especially equipment that doesn't have the Irish/UK three pin plug fitted. Retailers are obliged by law that all equipment has the proper 3 pin plug (the Earth pin needs to be there by law even if it's plastic and not connected as using the wall sockets otherwise is potentially lethal. The plug also MUST legally have a fuse, even if sealed in it and not user replaceable as in the case of plug top chargers).

watty

Onikage wrote: »

Apps? Seriously? MHEG5 has ZERO chance of delivering an experience superior to Flash 1.0

Not worth bothering with IMHO. Better to buy a cheap netbook if you want that kind of stuff

Really you need to research. You don't know what you are talking about. We are not talking about Apple (which doesn't have Flash at all) or Android.

Have you used BBC Red Button Wimbledon or Walking with Dinosaurs?

CiniO

watty wrote: »

It's fine for people to make a personal decision to buy a "crippled" cheap generic box or combo. It's not fine to use Boards as a public Platform to promote them.

Just to clarify - I'm not promoting anything.
I just decided to share, that such equipment works, even it's not "saorview approved".
Thank's to your posts, we all know now it doesn't have MHEG5 and what are the consequences of that.
However I still don't agree it's a cheap crippled generic box.
Ferguson used to do radio equipment for nearly a century, so I'm sure they have enough experience to make good quality tv tuners.

Especially equipment that doesn't have the Irish/UK three pin plug fitted. Retailers are obliged by law that all equipment has the proper 3 pin plug (the Earth pin needs to be there by law even if it's plastic and not connected as using the wall sockets otherwise is potentially lethal. The plug also MUST legally have a fuse, even if sealed in it and not user replaceable as in the case of plug top chargers).

That what these are for:

Onikage

watty wrote: »

Really you need to research. You don't know what you are talking about. We are not talking about Apple (which doesn't have Flash at all) or Android.

Have you used BBC Red Button Wimbledon or Walking with Dinosaurs?

I have indeed researched the spec, and used the simulator to run these so-called "apps". Have you? If not,you can get started here: http://redbutton.sourcfeforge.net
No need for the ad hominems btw.

My conclusion is that MHEG5 as a technology is about 10 years behind the times, like Flash 1.0. I don't get your reference to Apple or Android (A company and an operating system?) because they are totally unrelated to anything I said.

I don't understand your crusade to convince people of the benefits of MHEG5 at all. It should be clear by now that many people neither need nor want it.

Peter Rhea

CiniO wrote: »

Just to clarify - I'm not promoting anything.
I just decided to share, that such equipment works, even it's not "saorview approved".

You should have taken more care over your thread title.

Ferguson used to do radio equipment for nearly a century, so I'm sure they have enough experience to make good quality tv tuners.

I would think it's just badge engineering at this stage . . .

watty

Adobe is abandoning Flash.

No-one here can say that no-one needs or wants MHEG5, that's arrogance of the first order.

Onikage

watty wrote: »

Adobe is abandoning Flash.

No-one here can say that no-one needs or wants MHEG5, that's arrogance of the first order.

Adobe is...? Another non-sequitur and basically untrue, you are conflating Flash the product and Flash the technology. Adobe are going forwards with "new" technologies based on flash, not backwards. MHEG5 is MORE LIMITED in what it can do than Adobe software released in the early 00's. Anyone can verify that easily.

I don't need or want MHEG5. It simply does not provide me with enough value for the premium it commands. Everyone is free to make that decision for themselves.

Peter Rhea

Onikage wrote: »

I don't need or want MHEG5. It simply does not provide me with enough value for the premium it commands. Everyone is free to make that decision for themselves.

They are, they just shouldn't refer to a tv installation based on non-MHEG5 equipment as 'Saorview'.

CiniO

Peter Rhea wrote: »

They are, they just shouldn't refer to a tv installation based on non-MHEG5 equipment as 'Saorview'.

Got the point.
Subject changed.

stevenf17

My Soarview Aerial



1 meter of coaxial, 1 electrical connector and 1 TV connector, simples!

Not suitable for everyone, but if your fairly close to a broadcast tower it works like a charm!

CiniO

stevenf17 wrote: »

My Soarview Aerial



1 meter of coaxial, 1 electrical connector and 1 TV connector, simples!

Not suitable for everyone, but if your fairly close to a broadcast tower it works like a charm!

How far are you?

stevenf17

CiniO wrote: »

How far are you?

I actually didn't know so just looked it up here http://coverage.rtenl.ie/RTENLcoveragechecker.php
but by the looks of it I'm about 2km from the tower. (Greystones is surrounded by hills/mountains so we have our own tower)
So yeah I suppose i'm much closer than most people! Then again I don't know if the tower is much less powered because it only has a much smaller area to cover.

No harm for people to try out though.... you'd be surprised how many people would have most the parts lying around the house/garage!

Here's a video describing how to make it if anyone's interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxHXP...eature=related

CiniO

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If you're receiving a strong enough signal from the transmitter, it will be sufficient to overcome the polarity discrimination of the aerial. Obviously it's better to do it right.

Here's a pic of a vertically polarised log-periodic type aerial.

OK, as I said, so I did.
I went again up the roof and flipped aerial by 90 degrees.
There is no difference on saorview. My tuner still shows 80% signal.
However now my analog tv started working. As well when I plug in this aerial into radio i receives lots of channels, while before it wasn't really getting any.

Definitely aerial was incorrectly setup, but what makes me wonder is saorview - why is the no any difference.

Maybe Achill transmitter sends it's signal in both vertical and horizontal polarization, even though it says it's only vertical.

watty

Once you have more than a certain threshold Saorview is perfect.

Your TV or setbox "meter" isn't very accurate either.

Digital not only has more coverage than Analogue already but a lot of RTE's claimed 95% Analogue coverage is actually very poor.