Haywire - ERU ?

goldie fish · 29-01-2012 05:36PM

I get mixed up between ERU and eroo. I know at least one is a proper copper.

BrianD · 29-01-2012 05:47PM

Yes allow me to introduce a new concept: Actors playing the role of real people. Mainly so they don't have to use those real people. I can't see why any actor couldn't play the role as shown in the clip. Hardly rocket science.

As for the movie, trailer looked good but from all reports is dreadful. Does anybody know when those scenes were "filmed"?

Also the Irish Army weren't hired out for Braveheart. It was the reserve that was made available. Though apart from having a large number of men available, I can't imagine why.

King Ludvig · 29-01-2012 10:57PM

BrianD wrote: »

Yes allow me to introduce a new concept: Actors playing the role of real people. Mainly so they don't have to use those real people. I can't see why any actor couldn't play the role as shown in the clip. Hardly rocket science.

As for the movie, trailer looked good but from all reports is dreadful. Does anybody know when those scenes were "filmed"?

Also the Irish Army weren't hired out for Braveheart. It was the reserve that was made available. Though apart from having a large number of men available, I can't imagine why.

Yeah the RDF was asked to pass the details on to reserve soldiers, after that it was up to members to get involved if they wanted, they certainly werent 'hired out'. Same goes for Saving Private Ryan and more recently 'Titanic: Blood and Steel' (coming soon to a television near you, featuring yours truely

) Got talking to a couple of Gardaí and prison officers on set for the titanic series actually.

RDF were requested as they needed people who could 'look soldier-like'!

bk · 30-01-2012 03:18PM

First of all, let me point out that I was in no way looking to criticise the use of real Gardai and equipment in the movie.

Quite the opposite, I think it is a great way to highlight the great work and capabilities of the Gardai.

The US military do this all the time. They allow their bases, personal and equipment to be frequently used in films as it helps promote their services.

The biggest example is the Transformers movies which were actually filmed on an Airforce Base and Army Missile testing range and involved almost every new toy the US Army and Airforce have including Tanks, Choppers, F16's, F22 Stealth Fighters, CV-22's, CV-130, CV-17 spectre gun-ships. Yes, they were all real and not just CGI:

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/depiction-vs-reality-air-force-hardware-transformers-revenge-fallen

If it is good enough for the US military, why not the Gardai too?

In fact if you look at the comments on the youtube video, you will see comments like:

"we dont have a swat team like that tho do we???"

"They funny thing about this is that they have better armed police than the whole of the Garda!"

Is it not good to let the people of Ireland know the real capabilities and great work that the Gardai do?

And there is a lot of evidence that there were real.

The landcruisers seen in the movie are exactly the same make and model and look as those the ERU have been pictured using elsewhere on the internet. Who else in Ireland has such landcruisers with total black tinted windows with Irish License plates?

Also I've checked the credits and non of the people who played Gardai are mentioned anywhere in the credits.

Is it so hard to believe that a movie mostly filmed in Ireland, by an academy award winning director, with big support from the Irish Film Board, couldn't ask and pay the Gardai for some assistance in filming a movie for one day?

Mr Simpson · 30-01-2012 03:54PM

Theres actually one minute detail with the landcruisers that makes me think that they are not owned by the Garda ERU, don't think it should be discussed in a Public Forum tbh.

bk · 30-01-2012 04:10PM

mmcn90 wrote: »

Theres actually one minute detail with the landcruisers that makes me think that they are not owned by the Garda ERU, don't think it should be discussed in a Public Forum tbh.

If that is the case, then I'll accept it and you are right it shouldn't be discussed on a public forum if it is an operational matter that might have an effect on the safety of a Guard.

Nothing I have spoken about so far isn't anything that isn't already in the public domain.

source · 30-01-2012 04:17PM

bk wrote: »

First of all, let me point out that I was in no way looking to criticise the use of real Gardai and equipment in the movie.

Quite the opposite, I think it is a great way to highlight the great work and capabilities of the Gardai.

The US military do this all the time. They allow their bases, personal and equipment to be frequently used in films as it helps promote their services.

The biggest example is the Transformers movies which were actually filmed on an Airforce Base and Army Missile testing range and involved almost every new toy the US Army and Airforce have including Tanks, Choppers, F16's, F22 Stealth Fighters, CV-22's, CV-130, CV-17 spectre gun-ships. Yes, they were all real and not just CGI:

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/depiction-vs-reality-air-force-hardware-transformers-revenge-fallen

If it is good enough for the US military, why not the Gardai too?

In fact if you look at the comments on the youtube video, you will see comments like:

"we dont have a swat team like that tho do we???"

"They funny thing about this is that they have better armed police than the whole of the Garda!"

Is it not good to let the people of Ireland know the real capabilities and great work that the Gardai do?

And there is a lot of evidence that there were real.

The landcruisers seen in the movie are exactly the same make and model and look as those the ERU have been pictured using elsewhere on the internet. Who else in Ireland has such landcruisers with total black tinted windows with Irish License plates?

Also I've checked the credits and non of the people who played Gardai are mentioned anywhere in the credits.

Is it so hard to believe that a movie mostly filmed in Ireland, by an academy award winning director, with big support from the Irish Film Board, couldn't ask and pay the Gardai for some assistance in filming a movie for one day?

myself and a mate were talking about this before, when traffic blues came out. Management should agree to a show about public order and crime along the same vein as traffic blues. It would really highlight to the public what Gardai have to deal with day to day and especially on weekend nights.

Busy city centre stations, limerick, cork, dublin and galway. show the general public for what it actually is.

we came to the conclusion that the public isn't ready yet to see what Gardai deal with on a daily basis, and management isn't ready to show it. It is a shame because the public really need to see what goes on in the streets of our cities and towns. Not just speeding tickets and drunk drivers.

MagicSean · 30-01-2012 04:20PM

source wrote: »

myself and a mate were talking about this before, when traffic blues came out. Management should agree to a show about public order and crime along the same vein as traffic blues. It would really highlight to the public what Gardai have to deal with day to day and especially on weekend nights.

Busy city centre stations, limerick, cork, dublin and galway. show the general public for what it actually is.

we came to the conclusion that the public isn't ready yet to see what Gardai deal with on a daily basis, and management isn't ready to show it. It is a shame because the public really need to see what goes on in the streets of our cities and towns. Not just speeding tickets and drunk drivers.

Wasn't there a report not too long ago that showed the Gardaí as one of the most secretive police forces?

EDIT: My mistake. It was a comment by a Criminal Law professor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1203/gardai.html

source · 30-01-2012 04:38PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Wasn't there a report not too long ago that showed the Gardaí as one of the most secretive police forces?

EDIT: My mistake. It was a comment by a Criminal Law professor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1203/gardai.html

Yeah I would say it is, and with good reason up to the 80s and even mid 90s. The problem now as I see it is dinosaur management whose mindset is still back dealing with the provos.

MagicSean · 30-01-2012 04:41PM

source wrote: »

Yeah I would say it is, and with good reason up to the 80s and even mid 90s. The problem now as I see it is dinosaur management whose mindset is still back dealing with the provos.

These days most criminals know as much as they need and the veil of secrecy tends to just damage public relations in my opinion. Videos like this and the Traffic Blues series help to improve the perception of the Gardaí as a whole. I think the Coppers series in the UK is doing a great job.

source · 30-01-2012 04:51PM

MagicSean wrote: »

These days most criminals know as much as they need and the veil of secrecy tends to just damage public relations in my opinion. Videos like this and the Traffic Blues series help to improve the perception of the Gardaí as a whole. I think the Coppers series in the UK is doing a great job.

Exactly my point, there's no need to hide anymore. With the insular mentality in garda management i dont think i'll ever figure out how traffic blues got cleared.

I'd love a camera crew to be put with the regular units, I just can't see management giving it the go ahead.

Edit: and if they did, you'd be guaranteed it'd be in some sleepy backwater where almost nothing happens.

bk · 30-01-2012 04:59PM

source wrote: »

myself and a mate were talking about this before, when traffic blues came out. Management should agree to a show about public order and crime along the same vein as traffic blues. It would really highlight to the public what Gardai have to deal with day to day and especially on weekend nights.

Exactly my point. A lot of policing is image, perception and psychology.

Unfortunately I think the Gardai fail miserably at this.

I think many ordinary Irish people have a very bad image of the Gardai. They think that all Gardai are unarmed and that they just go around in their bright yellow jackets harassing ordinary citizens and giving speed tickets. That they have no ability (equipment and training) to fight real crime.

IMO The best thing to happen to policing in years is the introduction of the RSU. I'm originally from Cork and I can tell you that peoples respect for the Gardai went up x10 when the RSU, in their well equipped vehicles and tactical uniforms appeared on the streets of Cork.

I heard many people say, "thanks be to god we finally have a well equipped and well trained Gardai protecting us". People felt very happy to see the RSU vehicles cruising around their streets.

It may have not been true, it might have made zero difference to crime stats, but I do know that ordinary people felt much safer and I do wonder if the criminal element felt just a little bit less safe and a little bit more cautious.

That is why I'd love to see the RSU style units on the streets of Dublin. I know there are already lots of armed units on the streets of Dublin, but they aren't very high visibility and most people don't even know they exist. I think the people of Dublin would have a much greater respect for the Gardai if RSU style units appeared on our streets.

Sorry, that was a little bit off topic.

I agree that a show highlighting what the Gardai really have to regularly deal with and the equipment they have would be an eye opener for the public and I think it would go a long way to improving peoples image of the Gardai.

I think it might help the Gardai increase their budget. At the moment unfortunately I think when many people hear of budget cuts, they think "good, less yellow packs issuing speeding tickets". If the public saw the reality of what the Gardai have to deal with and the dangers faced, their might not be such an acceptance of budget cut backs and it might even be reversed.

I think Garda secrecy is their own worst enemy.

BTW I'm not suggesting that the Gardai should turn into the US style shoot first and ask questions later style robocops *, but rather perhaps follow the London police image, which to my mind at least, gives off an air of professional, well trained and equipped, yet still approachable and friendly.

* BBTW I was in Boston for the 9/11 10th anniversary and I was visiting the navel yard where two Boston cops were standing their in full swat tactical gear with M4 carbines. Pretty damn scary, everyone was giving them a wide berth. However I asked if they mind me taking a picture of them and they said no problem, even poised for it looking all mean

and we ended up chatting for 30 minutes abut all sorts of things. Really nice guys in the end. Told me all about policing in Boston and were very interested to hear what it was like in Ireland. So of course the reality is different then the image.

BBBTW This isn't my opinion of the Guards. I think they are a highly professional force, but unfortunately seem to have to work with one arm tied behind their backs for whatever reason. I'm only expressing what I hear often.

BrianD · 30-01-2012 05:33PM

bk wrote: »

First of all, let me point out that I was in no way looking to criticise the use of real Gardai and equipment in the movie.

Quite the opposite, I think it is a great way to highlight the great work and capabilities of the Gardai.

The US military do this all the time. They allow their bases, personal and equipment to be frequently used in films as it helps promote their services.

The biggest example is the Transformers movies which were actually filmed on an Airforce Base and Army Missile testing range and involved almost every new toy the US Army and Airforce have including Tanks, Choppers, F16's, F22 Stealth Fighters, CV-22's, CV-130, CV-17 spectre gun-ships. Yes, they were all real and not just CGI:

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/depiction-vs-reality-air-force-hardware-transformers-revenge-fallen

If it is good enough for the US military, why not the Gardai too?

In fact if you look at the comments on the youtube video, you will see comments like:

"we dont have a swat team like that tho do we???"

"They funny thing about this is that they have better armed police than the whole of the Garda!"

Is it not good to let the people of Ireland know the real capabilities and great work that the Gardai do?

And there is a lot of evidence that there were real.

The landcruisers seen in the movie are exactly the same make and model and look as those the ERU have been pictured using elsewhere on the internet. Who else in Ireland has such landcruisers with total black tinted windows with Irish License plates?

Also I've checked the credits and non of the people who played Gardai are mentioned anywhere in the credits.

Is it so hard to believe that a movie mostly filmed in Ireland, by an academy award winning director, with big support from the Irish Film Board, couldn't ask and pay the Gardai for some assistance in filming a movie for one day?

In the States everything is available for sale. Even the cops. When in Georgia over 10 years ago there was a cop in uniform and a patrol car doing security at the pub. Apparently, as they were in a "lethal occupation" they were allowed to do it. he had his hands full with 50 Irish/British taking the p155.

If the movie makers are able to recreate the Garda vehicles and uniforms, there's no need to hire them. It's different for military equipment in movies which are probably as much as a sales pitch for the suppliers as an advert for the armed service. Don't forget that after, Vietnam in the 60's and early 70's and the the Iraq adventures since 1990 it must be a challenge to get recruits.

Mr Simpson · 31-01-2012 12:58AM

Slightly OT, I doubt the uniforms were 'recreated' for the film, afaik the Gardai, like a lot of police forces, have some real uniforms which are rented out for film and tv production, on condition they are kept secure and all items are returned.

EDIT: Just to add to this, I found this article which states that uniforms are available from the Garda press office for filming purposes

bk · 31-01-2012 09:49AM

mmcn90 wrote: »

Slightly OT, I doubt the uniforms were 'recreated' for the film, afaik the Gardai, like a lot of police forces, have some real uniforms which are rented out for film and tv production, on condition they are kept secure and all items are returned.

If so, then I guess maybe that is what happened here. That the Gardai rented out uniforms (including ERU uniforms), walkie talkies, riot shields, helmets, etc. and perhaps even some ERU landcruisers.

I can't believe that a hollywood film would bother trying to "recreate" Gardai uniforms, in particular the ERU uniforms. I'd imagine if they couldn't have rented the ERU uniforms, they would simply have rented the normal US SWAT uniforms widely available from movie props companies.

That is why I originally thought that maybe they hired some off duty Gardai with permission to partake. But this is probably a better explanation.

View Profile · 31-01-2012 08:30PM

I played the part of a Garda (an extra) in a Hollywood film and I have no link to the force. The costume trailer on the set had loads of Garda uniforms including utility belts and radios.
The tactical lads in Haywire were most likely actors and their uniforms and equipment were probably general tactical gear and prop weapons.

I don't know which weapons the ERU use (and im sure its of the utmost secrecy) but the "actors" in Haywire seemed to be using MP7s with optical sights?!

And the film is far from bad. Dublin is seen in an interesting light, especially the roof chase, and it is far more realistic then most recent Hollywood action films.

Mister Jingles · 31-01-2012 11:04PM

View Profile wrote: »

I don't know which weapons the ERU use (and im sure its of the utmost secrecy) but the "actors" in Haywire seemed to be using MP7s with optical sights?!

Not sure about the optical sights but yep I've seen many ERU lads with the MP7 at checkpoints.

BrianD · 31-01-2012 11:57PM

mmcn90 wrote: »

Slightly OT, I doubt the uniforms were 'recreated' for the film, afaik the Gardai, like a lot of police forces, have some real uniforms which are rented out for film and tv production, on condition they are kept secure and all items are returned.

EDIT: Just to add to this, I found this article which states that uniforms are available from the Garda press office for filming purposes

On a similar line, didn't the Met Police buy all the uniforms from the wardrobe dept of The Bill tv show to prevent them falling into the wrong hands?

Locust · 01-02-2012 12:05AM

Not to start nickpickin, well okay, but from seeing 'them' on the news etc i'm sure the ERU wear a different style of helmet - more like a visor? and as someone mentioned in the film their gear says - POLICE on the front and GARDA on the back, in real life its just GARDA - also, the optics sights on the MP7's in the film (Eotechs?) - i'm pretty sure are different to those issued/fitted to Garda MP7's. All small discreps, but leads me to the conclusion they are actors/props and certainly not ERU members...

But hey all that aside - i'm going to see a throw away action movie and chomp popcorn and think it looks good as a portrayal of specialist Gardai running around in the black kit and screeching up in jeeps, well done.

Mr Simpson · 01-02-2012 12:09AM

Locust wrote: »

Not to start nickpickin, well okay, but from seeing 'them' on the news etc i'm sure the ERU wear a different style of helmet - more like a visor? and as someone mentioned in the film their gear says - POLICE on the front and GARDA on the back, in real life its just GARDA - also, the optics sights on the MP7's in the film (Eotechs?) - i'm pretty sure are different to those issued/fitted to Garda MP7's. All small discreps, but leads me to the conclusion they are actors/props and certainly not ERU members...

But hey all that aside - i'm going to see a throw away action movie and chomp popcorn and think it looks good as a portrayal of specialist Gardai running around in the black kit and screeching up in jeeps, well done.

In the movie, as in real life, its says Police on the right breast, Garda on the left, and Garda on the back.

Mr Simpson · 01-02-2012 12:11AM

BrianD wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

Slightly OT, I doubt the uniforms were 'recreated' for the film, afaik the Gardai, like a lot of police forces, have some real uniforms which are rented out for film and tv production, on condition they are kept secure and all items are returned.

EDIT: Just to add to this, I found this article which states that uniforms are available from the Garda press office for filming purposes

On a similar line, didn't the Met Police buy all the uniforms from the wardrobe dept of The Bill tv show to prevent them falling into the wrong hands?

I remember hearing that the Met owned them the whole time, they were supplied for film (possibly for a fee).

bk · 01-02-2012 02:05AM

Locust wrote: »

Not to start nickpickin, well okay, but from seeing 'them' on the news etc i'm sure the ERU wear a different style of helmet - more like a visor? and as someone mentioned in the film their gear says - POLICE on the front and GARDA on the back, in real life its just GARDA - also, the optics sights on the MP7's in the film (Eotechs?) - i'm pretty sure are different to those issued/fitted to Garda MP7's. All small discreps, but leads me to the conclusion they are actors/props and certainly not ERU members...

The helmets * and uniforms seen in the movie matches pictures of ERU officers on the streets of Dublin:

http://www.herald.ie/news/nine-held-in-massive-shakedown-of-gangs-2411804.html

Also note that the landcruisers make, model, color, tinted windows and emergency light placement match between the movie and the above photograph.

So I'm pretty certain they got a loan/rented uniforms and vehicles from the ERU. Yes the ERU are armed with the MP7, but I wouldn't be surprised if the optical sights are different as obviously the gun would be a replica prop.

At the very least we can be certain that there was obviously an ERU advisor on set and the film people got a very close look at the ERU gear.

* BTW yes the ERU have also been pictured with helmets with visors, they likely also have these, for riot/public order duties. The helmet with the googles seen in the movie and above picture would be more practical for tactical ops.

Corcioch · 18-02-2012 12:10AM

I taught 'Haywire' was great entertainment . . . . .and very very realistic . . .especially the bit where a girl hammers the bejaysus out of the two 'marathon runners with guns' . . . . . . sorry, I mean the two ERU lads:rolleyes:.

SNAKEDOC · 14-04-2012 04:02PM

a lot of frayed tempers on this thread, and some ideas of the beaten track. first off has nobody heard of advisers on movie sets. the guys that everyone goes to to get advise on wardrobe for army police forces, tactics and how to hold a gun while looking like your not a danger to everyone around you. ERU do not sub as actors, management would not allow it, nor are the vehicles actual ERU vehicles either that or they changed the locations of the lights. oh no thats a state secret.

come on lads the things stick out like sore thumbs. also someone said about the helmets been different. they are the same style helmet called m88 tactical ballistic helmets. the visor can be extra but on a movie set its cumbersome for actors cus they weigh a bit. its not a big push to see that its like any other movie where police are portrayed just that its the gardai's turn in the spotlight. why does anybody think that active duty ERU Gardai were involved in a movie in dublin. ERU gardai are scarce enough without having them rented out to film crews. as to the licencing of the uniform exceptions to the rule are in place for just this instance. all in all good PR

recipio · 09-05-2012 10:56AM

Just watched this on dvd and thought I'd revive this old thread.
The reviews internationally are actually quite good. The plot is a little pedestrian but it has a top notch cast.
There are scenes set in the Shelbourne ( hotel) -one of which a room is thrashed.I find that more fascinating than the long thread on the Garda/ERU issue.!

senordingdong · 06-06-2012 01:11PM

recipio wrote: »

Just watched this on dvd and thought I'd revive this old thread.
The reviews internationally are actually quite good. The plot is a little pedestrian but it has a top notch cast.
There are scenes set in the Shelbourne ( hotel) -one of which a room is thrashed.I find that more fascinating than the long thread on the Garda/ERU issue.!

Haha was only just thinking that.
I can't believe people thought that the actual ERU would be on standby to perform in a film.
Quite enjoyed the film though I have to say.

kub · 06-06-2012 09:12PM

How in the name of all that is Holy, could anyone confuse actors dressed up as ERU officers,in this film, as the real thing?

What is immediately obvious is the build of the actors in the film, their stature and height is just not right.

Mind you what would have been really obvious, should any of them have actually spoken was the probable lack of the Garda accent.

Esel · 09-06-2012 12:26AM

kub wrote: »

Mind you what would have been really obvious, should any of them have actually spoken was the probable lack of the Garda accent.

'And why would that be, now?' :cool:

ivabiggon · 09-06-2012 02:16PM

sorta like.........heawer boy???if ye wanna stay heawer.....yill havta move on!!!! :P

senordingdong · 10-06-2012 04:57PM

'Lose the HA-IH-TUDE!'

Haywire - ERU ?

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