The Role of the GAA in Irish Society

Mervyn Crawford · 25-01-2012 05:19PM #1

The GAA is intimately connected to nationalism.
National bourgeoisies conflate a legitimate and nescessary struggle against oppression with national identity per se. They confine oppositiobn to the question only of national 'freedom'. The question of social justice and real freedom and progress (i.e. socialism in place of capitalism) is very much off the agenda.

The GAA is supposedly the 'glue' that makes a community. Especially in rural ireland. (Clifford in the Examiner).
On the contrary. The GAA, like the Church, stands OVER the community cajoling the local populace to fall in line.
It is an organisation that encourages backwardness across the board. Celebrates brutality (being 'a man'). Promotes parochialism. Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently.
It receives wholesale funding from the state; but always dispensed so as to encourage favourites, uber-clubs, and create resentment.

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink.

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

There is a big lie concerning the GAA. That it is a 'pure' organisation because it is Irish!
The last time I looked most of the vipers and vampires making everyone's life a misery have an Irish accent.
The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

The Duke of Wellington's claim that the British officer corps were 'trained on the playing fields of Eton' was not referring to cricket; but to the brutality of Public School life, and the nature of Rugby.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule. Those who fawned would be rewarded.
The elbow in the nose, the rabbit punch, the heel trip..... opposing supporters attacking one another. Is this new?

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

The potential for sport as a co-operative / competitive recreation is enormous. The GAA does anything but promote co-operative/competitive games.

hisholinessnb · 25-01-2012 05:37PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The GAA is intimately connected to nationalism.
National bourgeoisies conflate a legitimate and nescessary struggle against oppression with national identity per se. They confine oppositiobn to the question only of national 'freedom'. The question of social justice and real freedom and progress (i.e. socialism in place of capitalism) is very much off the agenda.

The GAA is supposedly the 'glue' that makes a community. Especially in rural ireland. (Clifford in the Examiner).
On the contrary. The GAA, like the Church, stands OVER the community cajoling the local populace to fall in line.
It is an organisation that encourages backwardness across the board. Celebrates brutality (being 'a man'). Promotes parochialism. Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently.
It receives wholesale funding from the state; but always dispensed so as to encourage favourites, uber-clubs, and create resentment.

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink.

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

There is a big lie concerning the GAA. That it is a 'pure' organisation because it is Irish!
The last time I looked most of the vipers and vampires making everyone's life a misery have an Irish accent.
The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

The Duke of Wellington's claim that the British officer corps were 'trained on the playing fields of Eton' was not referring to cricket; but to the brutality of Public School life, and the nature of Rugby.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule. Those who fawned would be rewarded.
The elbow in the nose, the rabbit punch, the heel trip..... opposing supporters attacking one another. Is this new?

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

The potential for sport as a co-operative / competitive recreation is enormous. The GAA does anything but promote co-operative/competitive games.

Wow! you really don't like the GAA do you

keane2097 · 25-01-2012 05:42PM

hisholinessnb wrote: »

Wow! you really don't like the GAA do you

Sort of puts your "gobshite" comment earlier into perspective, get your dig in first and then when confronted with a well constructed, well thought out argument retreat to glib little remarks or other reductio ad ridiculum to avoid being made to look the fool if you get into any coherent discussion of a topic.

Would love to hear your definition of gobshite tbh.

Mervyn Crawford · 25-01-2012 05:50PM

Any discussion concerning the role of the GAA in Irish society is welcome as far as I am concerned.

hisholinessnb · 25-01-2012 05:53PM

"The GAA is a reactionary organisation that encourages parochialism and violence.

Controlled by local elites it engages in favouritism and bullying.

Supported by the banks and the alcohol industry"

Ah come on Keane, I know you and I like to have a dig at each other now and then, but I posted my "insult" in reference to the above, which surely you must agree is ridiculous?? Also I have received an infraction for the insult and have accepted it gracefully. But do you honestly believe his second post was well constructed and well thought out? Do you actually agree with the post?
The post to me had so much wrong and so much bitterness in it I don't think it justified any more "debate" more than an acknowledgement of his strong (understatement) dislike of the GAA.
Plus its an internet forum, I can post as much, or as little on a given topic as I want, and should be able to do so without being constantly attacked for not spending more time on the topic!
I won't be harrassed into a long drawn debate no matter how much someone is looking for a row.

Look Keane2097, you accused me of "stalking" you before, I'm trying to avoid you when possible ever since, yet you keep following me around having a go, just drop it eh!!

Lets let this thread return to the very serious topic in discussion and not another personal squabble.

Stinicker · 25-01-2012 06:00PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby

I have never heard such a load of crap in my life, Hurling itself predates the Catholic church by around 1,000 years and even football was played in Kerry as the game "Caid" since the 1300's, however in Kerry once again in late 1800's it was codified along with Hurling given a straight set of rules with some inspiration taken from Rugby.

Gaelic Football and Rugby when both taken to Australia were eventually merged into Aussie rules as a game incorportating the traditions of Gaelic Football and Rugby hence the oval ball.

The Catholic Church encourage the GAA and the GAA itself played an important part in the cultural war against the British Empire and British attempts to crush the game only galvanized the local populace further against them.

Velvety · 25-01-2012 06:04PM

While I'm personally obviously very much a fan of the games that come under the heading of GAA I find it hard to refute any of the assertions made in the piece above.

You find it hard to refute that the Catholic Church and aspiring bourgeois invented the GAA to control the Irish population and that now the banks of Ireland have taken over that role?

The rest of the arguments seem to be against physical sport in general rather than the GAA specifically.

Nevermind_ · 25-01-2012 06:05PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The GAA is intimately connected to nationalism.
National bourgeoisies conflate a legitimate and nescessary struggle against oppression with national identity per se. They confine oppositiobn to the question only of national 'freedom'. The question of social justice and real freedom and progress (i.e. socialism in place of capitalism) is very much of the agenda.

Absolutely nothing to do with this discussion

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The GAA is supposedly 'glue' that makes acommunity ) Clifford in The Examiner. Especially in rural ireland.
I contend it is no such thing.

Contend it all you like, the reality of the importance of the GAA in rural Ireland is rather different than you imagine from your urban idyll.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

rather it is an organisation that encourages backwardness across the board.

how so? an example of encouraging backwardness here would be appropriate and something modern and relevent not something from the 1920's.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Celebrates brutality (being 'a man').

Brutality is officially celebrated within the organisation? How so? again an example plaease? the same could be said of any contact sport, no one is forced to participate.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Promotes parochialism.

So what? what harm does that cause? Pride in the area and community you are from is socially unacceptable now? sorry I didnt get that memo.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently (including within the sport and the organisation.

again i have no idea what you are referring to here could you elaborate or give an example instead of just tossing it out there in the hope it will stick.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink.

So the GAA is to blame for Irelands alcohol issues? ever been in a golf club? a rugby club? a soccer club? Many of them also have bars. Our issues with alcohol as a country far predate the formation of the GAA. there are references to the way we consumed alcohol stretching back to roman times.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

this thesis is tenuous at best and ludicrous at the extreme. Banks sponsor all types of sport and cultural events as is their right in a free country, to isolate the GAA because they receive sponsorships from a bank and ignore all others is farcical and only reveals your bias.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

There is a big lie concerning the GAA. That it is a 'pure' organisation because it is Irish!
The last time I looked most of the vipers and vampires making everyone's life a misery have an Irish accent.
The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

What is the lie, it is Irish? and what do you mean by pure?
As regards the violence in the game last sunday I and the vast majority of people find it absolutely abbhorent, and I genuinely hope that severe puishments are handed out.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The Duke of Wellington's claim that the British officer corps were 'trained on the playing fields of Eton' was not referring to cricket; but to the brutality of Public School life, and the nature of Rugby.

but we arent talking about Rugby or Britain are we

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule. Those who fawned would be rewarded.

The playing of hurling and football in ireland far predate the invention of Rugby. The connection between politics, the catholic church and the GAA from its formation is well documented. However the role and power of the catholic church in Ireland particularly among the youger generation has all but completely evaporated.
the rest of that quote reaally does just descend into tinfoil hat far left diatribe, the year is 2012 the vast majority of Irish people are well educated and are able to think for themselves. You may look down on your nose at people who enjoy or participate in sports all you like, it doesnt add credence to your assertions.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The elbow in the nose, the rabbit punch, the heel trip..... opposing supporters attcking one another. Is this new?

what are you referring to here because what you describe could be attributed to several different sports in different countries.
As for the video in question in this thread there are no "supporters" attacking other supporters in that video.

cruiserweight · 25-01-2012 06:07PM

Warning from last thread applies here, no bitching and sniping at each other. Attack the post and not the poster

premierstone · 25-01-2012 06:22PM

The GAA is intimately associated with Nationalism?? Yeah and your point, you say this as it is a bad thing, are you not a proud Irishman, I know I am

Celebrates brutality (being 'a man'). Promotes parochialism. Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently.
It receives wholesale funding from the state; but always dispensed so as to encourage favourites, uber-clubs, and create resentment.

Where have you seen brutality celebrated, please give me an example of this, shouldnt be hard you have over 125 years to find one. It receives funding from the state as does all the major sporting organisations, and you last line makes fcuk all sense tbh and is actually a description of everything the GAA is not, its why we have the parish rule!

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation.

74 clubs in Tipperary and only one of them has a bar (Thurles Sars, because its in the grounds of the second biggest stadium, its actually closed most of the time), please dont tar all clubs with the one brush or any bad experience you have had yourself.

By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

Right so, you dont think the GAA should accept sponsership from the finacial industry, fair enough a little left field but I'll allow some scope but are you trying here to suggest that the GAA is in some way responsible for the housing crisis, that is laughable, oh and btw who sponsors the 6Nations, or our new stadium in Landsowne for that matter.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule.

This again is lies and quite frankly boll*x, what role did the catholic church play in the foundation of the GAA, and as for the numbers playing Rugby in Ireand in the 1880's you cannot be serious? And you are aware that the origins of the GAA's game date back 000's of years previous to this again, even before Rugby was invented.

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

Agreed, thats why it was recently decided in Tipp and I know in a number of other counties to abolish competitive games untill u-14, blitzes are held from u-8 up and one of the conditions is that all members of the panel must play at least one half of the game.

Can you tell me of any other sporting organisation in our land that has such forward thinking and proactive programmes??

LeoB · 25-01-2012 06:26PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The GAA is intimately connected to nationalism.
National bourgeoisies conflate a legitimate and nescessary struggle against oppression with national identity per se. They confine oppositiobn to the question only of national 'freedom'. The question of social justice and real freedom and progress (i.e. socialism in place of capitalism) is very much off the agenda.

The GAA is supposedly the 'glue' that makes a community. Especially in rural ireland. (Clifford in the Examiner).
On the contrary. The GAA, like the Church, stands OVER the community cajoling the local populace to fall in line.
It is an organisation that encourages backwardness across the board. Celebrates brutality (being 'a man'). Promotes parochialism. Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently.
It receives wholesale funding from the state; but always dispensed so as to encourage favourites, uber-clubs, and create resentment.

The G.A.A is the glue that holds a lot of people and communities together. The G.A.A. and people like me stand fully over "The Parish", AS A MEANS OF BEING PROUD OF YOUR PLACE, YOUR HOME, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR NEIGHBOURS. There is nothing wrong with that.

The G.A.A. as I know it promotes a lot of very positive things in communities from giving kids who want to have a go the opportunity to play games and hopefully stay healthy. I have not witnessed any of this crap you have above. And I would not stand over it in my club if it were happening.

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink..

Just like all the rugby clubs, Soccer clubs, Golf clubs, Sailing clubs.....

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

There is a big lie concerning the GAA. That it is a 'pure' organisation because it is Irish!
The last time I looked most of the vipers and vampires making everyone's life a misery have an Irish accent...

This is a fcking windup!!! The G.A.A done a good job promoting Irish culture, through Scor Na Nog, Irish nights and classes in clubs(No point relying our political leaders to do it). The policy of also buying Irish was also a big boost to many Irish companies who benefitted from the foresight the G.A.A. had to develop Clubhouses and dressing rooms when other Irish sporting organisation wasted money bringing hanger ons to all sorts of functions and overseas junkets. FACT

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

The Duke of Wellington's claim that the British officer corps were 'trained on the playing fields of Eton' was not referring to cricket; but to the brutality of Public School life, and the nature of Rugby.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule. Those who fawned would be rewarded.
The elbow in the nose, the rabbit punch, the heel trip..... opposing supporters attacking one another. Is this new? ..

The rake with studs in a maul or ruck,, Biting in the scrum, spear tackles,, spitting at opponents!!!!

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'. .

As bad as reading **** like this.
I have never seen this happen. Did you? Perhaps some proof

The potential for sport as a co-operative / competitive recreation is enormous. The GAA does anything but promote co-operative/competitive games.

If some hack got paid for this he should get a P45.
THIS IS A DISGRACEFUL ATTACK ON ON A REALLY GOOD SPORTING ORGANISATION.

I have been involved as player , mentor coach Secretary and Chairman since 1973 and this article reflects nothing of what I have experienced. In fact I have seen kids going off the rails in some areas being encouraged to play and turning their lives around. They didnt need to be working in the bank or going to certain schools to play or join.
The games were tougher when I played but I envy the level of fitness reached by players today, the behind the scenes work they do to prepare for the season, the commitment during the season and most want to do it to see there Parish get their names on a cup or roll of honour, nothing wrong with that, or is there?

There have been incidents in many counties that no sportsman would stand over but the article above is just a piece of anti G.A.A crap. Yes there are some incidents at games but this was over the top and not the norm.

Whoever caused this should particular trouble should be banned immediatley. It has no place in any sport and that is fairly evident from people on here.
But sure then the hacks would be twiddling their thumbs and sipping from the hip flask

strewelpeter · 25-01-2012 10:59PM

For more than a hundred years the GAA was nothing more than the Provos at play. Now they can't decide whether they want to hold on to their core audience who treat it as an outlet for faction fighting or to move into the modern world.
Year after year incidents of outrageous violence occur, the same questions arise and as of yet everything the organisation does is geared towards not alienating the Neanderthals for whom the spectacle of violence is the real attraction.

Overstated though it it I would concur with most of the OP's points especially about orthodoxy and this fantasy of the purity of the organisation.
The point that I believe has had the most impact on the failure of the GAA to grow up and deal with the cancers at its heart is the excessive focus on competition at underage levels. Its truly frightening what goes on in a lot of clubs, my experience in the main has been that GAA Clubs were wholly unsuitable places for children to be and certainly as the OP points out no place at all for a Kid who is only there to enjoy the game and get some exercise.
I have seen some changes recently in this regard probably as a new generation of parents comes online and as the organisations protection of children in its care comes under a bit of scrutiny. I'm very encouraged by what Premierstone says about Tipp, it would be great if this was applied everywhere. .
On the other hand I won't hold my breath in expectation of appropriate action being taken on any of the latest incidents of thuggery.

deisedude · 25-01-2012 11:16PM

strewelpeter wrote: »

For more than a hundred years the GAA was nothing more than the Provos at play. Now they can't decide whether they want to hold on to their core audience who treat it as an outlet for faction fighting or to move into the modern world.
Year after year incidents of outrageous violence occur, the same questions arise and as of yet everything the organisation does is geared towards not alienating the Neanderthals for whom the spectacle of violence is the real attraction.

Overstated though it it I would concur with most of the OP's points especially about orthodoxy and this fantasy of the purity of the organisation.
The point that I believe has had the most impact on the failure of the GAA to grow up and deal with the cancers at its heart is the excessive focus on competition at underage levels. Its truly frightening what goes on in a lot of clubs, my experience in the main has been that GAA Clubs were wholly unsuitable places for children to be and certainly as the OP points out no place at all for a Kid who is only there to enjoy the game and get some exercise.
I have seen some changes recently in this regard probably as a new generation of parents comes online and as the organisations protection of children in its care comes under a bit of scrutiny. I'm very encouraged by what Premierstone says about Tipp, it would be great if this was applied everywhere. .
On the other hand I won't hold my breath in expectation of appropriate action being taken on any of the latest incidents of thuggery.

99% of team sports for children are competitive not just the GAA. You conveniently ignore that.

Too much is made of this issue anyway. Kids are being wrapped in cotton wool nowadays. It does no harm to lose now and again. Builds character

strewelpeter · 26-01-2012 12:23AM

deisedude wrote: »

99% of team sports for children are competitive not just the GAA. You conveniently ignore that.

Too much is made of this issue anyway. Kids are being wrapped in cotton wool nowadays. It does no harm to lose now and again. Builds character

Nah its not even close. The attitude and competitiveness below u14 in the Gaa is very different from the other sports I've seen. Rugby clubs in particular are so much better at this. Its not about wrapping kids in cotton wool or about preventing them having any competitive games its about giving them a chance to grow up with something that will serve them for life and not just till they get dropped after Minor level and go on the beer.

LeoB · 26-01-2012 12:23AM

strewelpeter wrote: »

For more than a hundred years the GAA was nothing more than the Provos at play. Now they can't decide whether they want to hold on to their core audience who treat it as an outlet for faction fighting or to move into the modern world.
Year after year incidents of outrageous violence occur, the same questions arise and as of yet everything the organisation does is geared towards not alienating the Neanderthals for whom the spectacle of violence is the real attraction. .

I dont know if this is wind up Wednesday but the above is laughable and just shows how blinkered you are and uninformed.

To even suggest the G.A.A was nothing more than the provos at play is downright insulting to the thousands of people who played Gaelic Games all over this Island and beyond. The G.A.A was set up foster a sense of pride and promote Irish culture at a time when our language and traditions were being hammered out of us, a time when great athletes like Paddy Nally were not allowed compete in sports events at certain grounds in Ireland. So the G.A.A. gave Nally and many people like him the opportunity to play and partake in sport in THEIR country.

I am sure there are provos who have played and served on committees up and down this this country but they were in every other sporting organisation also, they were in state departments, Church, schools, Banks (legally robbing people). Who built the grounds all over this country and provided spme of the best facilities for our young people ? The G.A.A. did.

strewelpeter wrote: »

Overstated though it it I would concur with most of the OP's points especially about orthodoxy and this fantasy of the purity of the organisation.
The point that I believe has had the most impact on the failure of the GAA to grow up and deal with the cancers at its heart is the excessive focus on competition at underage levels. Its truly frightening what goes on in a lot of clubs, my experience in the main has been that GAA Clubs were wholly unsuitable places for children to be and certainly as the OP points out no place at all for a Kid who is only there to enjoy the game and get some exercise. .

That is your experience, name the club...... The G.A.A. is a great place for kids for many reasons, promoting a healthy lifestyle, participation, friendship and of course its competitive and a physical contact game that does spill over sometimes. But the G.A.A have taken out a lot this with the GO-GAMES iniative.

This is not just a G.A.A. problem. The competition for kids is I believe being driven by quite a few parents (sporting and academically) who only see their kids and just dont get the big picture of what sport is about at juvenile level. Parents are driving kids bonkers pushing them beyond what their bodies can cope with and yes some coachs are doing it as well and its causing kids to walk away from all sports. I know for a fact 2 other major organisations are way worse than the G.A.A. after I spoke to a number of kids who played both codes and G.A.A. I have been a juvenile coach for quite a few years now and I believe my club was one of the first back in 1990 to offically lauch a child protection policy which in the meantime has been updated quite a few times. Life in General is also now far more competitive in just about every aspect

strewelpeter wrote: »

I have seen some changes recently in this regard probably as a new generation of parents comes online and as the organisations protection of children in its care comes under a bit of scrutiny. I'm very encouraged by what Premierstone says about Tipp, it would be great if this was applied everywhere. .
On the other hand I won't hold my breath in expectation of appropriate action being taken on any of the latest incidents of thuggery.

These changes you talk about, would you explain them to me, please. County boards up and down this country have welfare and child protection officers in place. I know my club has 2 welfare officers in place one male and one female. All our coachs are Garda vetted and all coachs must at least do the foundation course and a child protection night.

The G.A.A. has given this country so much and its role should not be demeaned by silly posts from people who obviously know know very little about the Association. The G.A.A. has contributed hugely to what I believe is mainly a good decent society. Some of the biggest critics the G.A.A. have are from within the organisation but they are people who know what they are talking about. We do get a lot of stuff wrong but the G.A.A. can hold its head high when it reflects on the role it has played in Irish society. Keeping communities together, promoting Irish culture through Scór, promoting Irish business the lisyt just goes on....

No matter what the G.A.A. does it wont be enough for the begrudgers.

LeoB · 26-01-2012 12:55AM

strewelpeter wrote: »

The attitude and competitiveness below u14 in the Gaa is very different from the other sports I've seen. Rugby clubs in particular are so much better at this..

Rugby is well organised in fairness. But would kids play if they thought they were going to get raked in a maul or ruck? Or get a spear tackle Oh and some lads tape up their ers just incase someone has a nible? There is plenty of dirt in junior club rugby

strewelpeter wrote: »

Its not about wrapping kids in cotton wool or about preventing them having any competitive games its about giving them a chance to grow up with something that will serve them for life and not just till they get dropped after Minor level and go on the beer.

The G.A.A. gives plenty of good life skills to juvenile players. The majority of kids who drop out of sport in my experience is they just get fed up with up with it. They start to young maybe? Has some school not been investigated in the last few years over encouraging kids to go on some mad diet or take some type of Drink to enhance body size or performance? Big school and they dont play G.A.A. Young players also get dumped in Rugby clubs where a few €uro is used to entice a player in and a local gets dropped, that is widespread in other sports. They discover women, drink drugs but this is in all sports.

I agree 100% that we do wrap our kids in cotton wool (Im guilty at times also) and this is also creating a drop out factor.

The G.A.A HAS CONTRIBUTED MORE TO iRISH SOCIETY THAN ANY OTHER SPORT IN THIS COUNTRY IN MY OPINION.

There is always room to improve and the G.A.A. while it might be slow to impliment change they will change as they see fit not as other dictate.

thegen · 26-01-2012 01:04AM

strewelpeter wrote: »

Nah its not even close. The attitude and competitiveness below u14 in the Gaa is very different from the other sports I've seen. Rugby clubs in particular are so much better at this. Its not about wrapping kids in cotton wool or about preventing them having any competitive games its about giving them a chance to grow up with something that will serve them for life and not just till they get dropped after Minor level and go on the beer.

Way off the mark. Go games in place in most counties which is non competitive up to u12. Rugby club near mine came up to see how a coaching session for 6-7 yr olds was structured with the emphasis on skills development.

ProudDUB · 26-01-2012 03:14AM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

Rubbish. Not all kids can run, jump, hurl, throw, catch etc etc as well or as fast as another. Sooner or later some kids make the grade and others don't. That is life. I agree that when they first start out, kids need to be insulated from the harsh realities of sports. But sooner or later you have to remove the kid gloves and let ability/size/skill etc dictate who makes a team. If you don't, youngsters will have a hard time accepting realities in day to day life. I was very short as a young 'un. I wasn't picked for my school basketball team that prized height over everything else. I faced facts. I got over it, and moved onto other sports that I was physically suited for. To equate that to the religious fear and horror that the Christian Brothers tried to bate into the minds and hearts of young kids is ridiculous imo.

If you think the GAA is bad, take a good long look at what happens in the US. There, a years tuition at an average college is about $40,000. That is $160,000 over 4 years. Just imagine what it is like for the average family with 3 kids? Over there, parents start grooming their kids pretty much from the womb to earn themselves a sports scholarship to college to ease that financial burden. The pressure that these kids are put under is unreal. I know. I have seen it first hand. Irish kids (whether or not they play GAA, soccer, rugby etc ) have it mind blowingly easy in comparison.

bruschi · 26-01-2012 08:45AM

thegen wrote: »

Way off the mark. Go games in place in most counties which is non competitive up to u12. Rugby club near mine came up to see how a coaching session for 6-7 yr olds was structured with the emphasis on skills development.

exactly. talking about competetive nature of below U14, when there are no competetive competitions below that age group in pretty much every county now. Someone being well informed anyway, but I suppose facts shouldnt get away in a rant that says the GAA is not a suitable place for children.

J Cheever Loophole · 26-01-2012 09:53AM

strewelpeter wrote: »

For more than a hundred years the GAA was nothing more than the Provos at play.

The Provisional IRA was created in 1969. I'm therefore unclear as to whether or not it's your knowledge of history that is lacking, or simply that advanced mathematics is not your thing. :rolleyes:

26-01-2012 11:32AM

Hi OP

Well written post with lots of good arguments, something that is often lacking on this GAA board.

But just a couple of things.
Yes drink plays a big part in the local GAA scene but it plays the same roll in other sports clubs too, I think it has more to do with the Irish attitude to drink rather than the GAA.
Plus if you look at rugby for instance it's biggest competition in Europe is sponsored, with naming rights, by a drinks company. The competition local to this island was previously sponsored by a drinks company and is now sponsored by a bank.
At the moment only one national GAA competition has any drinks group, and that is a as co-sponsor of the hurling championship with a number of other companies.

As a avid sports and primarily a GAA fan I am not one bit interested in nationalism, the church, the GAAs place in society etc.
I just enjoy the sporting spectacle that is provided by football (I am not a big fan of hurling) and enjoy watching my county team or home club winning games and giving me enjoyment.

Tiocfaidh Armani · 26-01-2012 12:28PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

The GAA is intimately connected to nationalism.
National bourgeoisies conflate a legitimate and nescessary struggle against oppression with national identity per se. They confine oppositiobn to the question only of national 'freedom'. The question of social justice and real freedom and progress (i.e. socialism in place of capitalism) is very much off the agenda.

The GAA is supposedly the 'glue' that makes a community. Especially in rural ireland. (Clifford in the Examiner).
On the contrary. The GAA, like the Church, stands OVER the community cajoling the local populace to fall in line.
It is an organisation that encourages backwardness across the board. Celebrates brutality (being 'a man'). Promotes parochialism. Bullys those who wish to express themselves differently.
It receives wholesale funding from the state; but always dispensed so as to encourage favourites, uber-clubs, and create resentment.

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink.

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

There is a big lie concerning the GAA. That it is a 'pure' organisation because it is Irish!
The last time I looked most of the vipers and vampires making everyone's life a misery have an Irish accent.
The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

The Duke of Wellington's claim that the British officer corps were 'trained on the playing fields of Eton' was not referring to cricket; but to the brutality of Public School life, and the nature of Rugby.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby in order to create brutes to run their business and state/church bureaucracy. And to hammer down opposition to their savage rule. Those who fawned would be rewarded.
The elbow in the nose, the rabbit punch, the heel trip..... opposing supporters attacking one another. Is this new?

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

The potential for sport as a co-operative / competitive recreation is enormous. The GAA does anything but promote co-operative/competitive games.

You forgot it's the GAA cutting down the rain forest as well.......

premierstone · 26-01-2012 01:16PM

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

You forgot it's the GAA cutting down the rain forest as well.......

Yes but you also forgot to mention that they get all the kids to do the manual labour and they are really only destroying the rain forests to get one up on the Rugby

Hammer Archer · 26-01-2012 03:07PM

OP I see you haven't returned to back up your points, most of which have been torn to shreds by other posters.

Just a few points from myself, some of which echo the points others have made. I couldn't be bothered going into more detail.

For sporting or cultural organisations to have a bar as the centre of their fund raising tells you a lot about that organisation. Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club, or because their club promotes drink.

It's a sad fact that drink is a huge part of Irish life, but it is ridiculous to say that "Many Irish youth get their first taste of drink in their club". In my opinion, many Irish young people get their first taste of drink by robbing alcohol from their parents homes.
Also, as someone pointed out earlier, what are your views on the Heineken Cup? Or on the fact that the IRFU are partially sponsored by Guinness and Bushmills?
The fact that one of the main sponsors of Euro 2012 is a major drinks company?
That several horse racing meetings are sponsored by drinks companies?
Any opinions on the above?
Sporting organisations need funding and they will usually get it by allowing drink companies sponsor them.

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people (coupled with the state's virtual stand-still in the building of rented homes).

Wow. That's astounding ignorance there. How does having banks as sponsors ignore the fact that Ireland has serious financial trouble? Yet again, you've conveniently ignored that the Irish Rugby provinces are all (apart from Connacht maybe) sponsored by banks in some way as well as the Irish National team.
That is a staggeringly idiotic point and shows up your blind hatred for the GAA.

The violence at the game last Sunday is nothing new. The brutalisation of youth that is encouraged in the GAA is no accident. The powers-that-be are only too keen to have us descending into atavistic behaviour rather than raising our awareness and seeing what is truly happening before our eyes.

Again, violence is not limited to the GAA. I've heard of several games in the local soccer league in Meath being abandoned due to violence from players and/or spectators. Also, look at the trouble between Shamrock Rovers and Boh's supporters almost every year in the LOI.
Violence is also not uncommon in rugby. Just this month, a player in the AIL lost his sight in one eye due to an eye gouge.

The Catholic Church and the aspiring Irish bourgeoisie invented/promoted the GAA as a bastardisation of Rugby

Eh no. No they did not. The GAA was established to promote Irish sport and culture which would probably have been consigned to the history books had it not been for the likes of Cusack, Davin etc.
And variations of Gaelic Games, especially hurling, have been around centuries before Rugby.

Making seven-year old children feel excluded beacuse they don't make the mark is as cruel and destructive to a child as the priest or teacher telling them they are born with 'sin on their souls'.

Look up Go Games.

Congratulations by the way. This has to be up there with the most spectacularly ignorant posts I've seen.

ormond lad · 26-01-2012 03:20PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Violence is also not uncommon in rugby. Just this month, a player in the AIL lost his sight in one eye due to an eye gouge./QUOTE]
Just to let you know the eye injury to the rugby player that happened recently was not due to an eye gouge
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/news/10035.php

Violence is not limited to the GAA but there rarely is stories about incidents at rugby games similar to what happened in tyrone recently

J Cheever Loophole · 26-01-2012 03:22PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Congratulations by the way. This has to be up there with the most spectacularly ignorant posts I've seen.

To be honest, my main concern is the number of others who have come on to congratulate Mervyn on his well argued post? :eek:

Can the level of hatred for the GAA run so deep?

c_man · 26-01-2012 03:24PM

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

One does not have to be in hock to the banks to be under their sway. By having as their major sponsors the banking industry the GAA hides the basic truth that Irish people are day-in, day-out exploited and oppressed by the big money of the finance industry. The super-inflation of house prices being the most obvious attack on ordianry people

I'll come back to the rest. Just on this, I was at the Connacht Leinster rugby game a few weeks ago. Hoardes of fans waving blue flags, the only markings on which were the Bank of Ireland name and logo. Find anything similar in GAA games and come back to me.

Hammer Archer · 26-01-2012 03:50PM

ormond lad wrote: »

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Violence is also not uncommon in rugby. Just this month, a player in the AIL lost his sight in one eye due to an eye gouge.

Just to let you know the eye injury to the rugby player that happened recently was not due to an eye gouge
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/news/10035.php

Violence is not limited to the GAA but there rarely is stories about incidents at rugby games similar to what happened in tyrone recently

Fair enough. But there have been several high profiled eye gouging incidents in rugby in recent times. And I do agree that rugby fans are far better behaved than those of other sports.

But supporter violence is equally as common in other sports. For example, I went to an ice hockey game in Belfast last weekend and witnessed a fight between supporters. And obviously, similar problems in soccer are well documented.

26-01-2012 04:12PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

ormond lad wrote: »

That is very true. I've rarely heard of violence in the stands in a rugby game.

But supporter violence is equally as common in other sports. For example, I went to an ice hockey game in Belfast last weekend and witnessed a fight between supporters. And obviously, similar problems in soccer are well documented.

The reason you hear less of it in other sports is beacuse the games that it happens in is so far down the public awareness list you do not even know it's happening and thus it gets no mention.
I made a list of all the (male) GAA competitions in a season and where various games in the competition may rank as regards general public interest.
Here is it

1. All Ireland Football final
2 All Ireland Hurling final
T3 All Ireland Football Semi final
T3 All Ireland Football Semi final
T5 All Ireland Hurling semi final
T5 All Ireland Hurling semi final
7 Football league Final
8. Hurling league Final
T9. Football provincial final
T9. Football provincial final
T9. Football provincial final
T9. Football provincial final
T13. Munster Hurling final
T13 Leinster Hurling Final
15 Senior Club final football
16 Senior Club final hurling
T17 Senior Club semi final football
T17 Senior Club semi final football
T19 Senior Club semi final hurling
T19 Senior Club semi final hurling
T21 - Five senior county finals in football and Hurling (estimate)
T26 - Intermediate club final
T26 - Junior club final
T28 - Inter semi final
T28 - Inter semi final
T30 - Junior semi final
T30 - Junior semi final

So there it is, the junior football semi final is about 30th on th list of GAA games a season as regards national interest.
If you were to apply the same to soccer or rugby the you would have the FAI cup final, the six nations game v England or the IRB European Cup final at the top
But what would you have way down at 30th place ?

At the same level of the game I'm sure there are lots of brawls in rugby and soccer, it's just that the games are so insignificant to the public conciousness that we never hear about it.

LeoB · 26-01-2012 04:14PM

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

To be honest, my main concern is the number of others who have come on to congratulate Mervyn on his well argued post? :eek: ?

Cheever Loophole, they are called throlls on Boards.ieNo telling how many ignorant people there are out there.:rolleyes:

Well able to type but not willing to go and do a bit of research on the real facts and see the great work being done up and down the country every day of the week.

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Can the level of hatred for the GAA run so deep?

Again its just plain ignorance. My mother god rest her used to say "Begrudgery was the biggest killer of people" and I strongly believe her.

LeoB · 26-01-2012 04:21PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Fair enough. But there have been several high profiled eye gouging incidents in rugby in recent times. And I do agree that rugby fans are far better behaved than those of other sports.

But supporter violence is equally as common in other sports. For example, I went to an ice hockey game in Belfast last weekend and witnessed a fight between supporters. And obviously, similar problems in soccer are well documented.

The GUUUUYS writing the reports are probably members of Rugger clubs so we wont here about it just that it was a brusing encounter with no quarter asked or give

The Role of the GAA in Irish Society

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