Unpopular Opinions.

ItsAWindUp · 23-01-2012 09:13AM

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Women treat men a lot worse than men treat women

Women have an unfair advantage in interviews. Most guys doing interviews are so dumb that a twinkle in the eye or a low top will be enough to get the job. Qualifications and experience are no substitute for the juvenile fantasies of Irish men in the workplace.

Recruitment websites are a scam and should be shut down without proper evidence that the jobs they 'advertise' actually exist

And here is a dinger . . . most people are stupid

How can most people be stupid? Surely intelligence is relative?

Zorbas · 23-01-2012 10:41AM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Define "working", socialism creates more poverty than capitalism and wastes resources. Read a basic economics book.

God is not great - definie God, religion causes more conflict than aethism, read a book about religion.
Enlightening is'nt it?

mikemac1 · 23-01-2012 11:04AM

All car drivers doing their training should spend maybe five hours on a scooter.
I was going to say motorbike but that takes training, anyone can ride a scooter.

It would improve any car drivers skill, make them a lot more aware and ensure they have to think about blindspots

Getting motorcycle training had a side benefit of making me a better car driver
Or cage driver as we say

token101 · 23-01-2012 11:21AM

The sense of entitlement among people in receipt of social welfare is sickening at times. Food, water and adequate housing is a right. €188 a week isn't.

The demonisation against 'racists' is insanity at times. The abuse levelled at Darren Scully and Alan Hanson coming to mind. Discriminating against someone on the basis they are of a particular race is wrong. IMO neither of these people did that.

I don't want travellers living near me, in my town, or coming anywhere near my business. I don't believe they are all bad, but many are the scum of the earth. My own experiences form my opinions, not what society and those who have most likely never had direct experiences think. And I don't believe for a second that travellers are a race. It's a lifestyle choice.

Zorbas · 23-01-2012 12:18PM

The Aid NGOs such as Trocaire, Oxfam, GOAL, Irish Red Cross, Concern etc who just pull at the heart strings to get at the purse strings instead of having a grown up communication which offers some level of accountability. Why should we believe that they are all good people out to do good and able to do good?

Angeles · 23-01-2012 12:21PM

"Lets absolutely not get that second beer in"

MJ23 · 23-01-2012 01:49PM

white track suits should be made illegal. Along with hoop earings, pot noodles, Hugh grant films, dutch gold and Fair City

HalloweenJack · 23-01-2012 02:16PM

token101 wrote: »

And I don't believe for a second that travellers are a race. It's a lifestyle choice.

What a load of bollocks.

Who'd want to die younger than the rest of the population? Who'd want to have significantly worse health than the rest of the population? Who'd want to be treated like second-class citizens all their lives?

Yahew · 23-01-2012 02:17PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

What a load of bollocks.

Who'd want to die younger than the rest of the population? Who'd want to have significantly worse health than the rest of the population? Who'd want to be treated like second-class citizens all their lives?

The dying younger is part of the lifestyle choice, of course. And what laws on the books make travellers second-class citizens?

HalloweenJack · 23-01-2012 02:27PM

Yahew wrote: »

The dying younger is part of the lifestyle choice, of course.

I'm ignoring this drivel.

Yahew wrote:

And what laws on the books make travellers second-class citizens?

There are no laws but the way they are treated by the general populaiton is discriminatory. For example, opinions like this:

token101 wrote:

I don't want travellers living near me, in my town, or coming anywhere near my business. I don't believe they are all bad, but many are the scum of the earth. My own experiences form my opinions, not what society and those who have most likely never had direct experiences think.

So there you have, in a recession, a businessman who will willingly turn down business because some prospective clients belong to a certain group. That is discrimination.

And we all know that these kind of opinions are held by a lot of people in Ireland.

Yahew · 23-01-2012 02:32PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I'm ignoring this drivel.

Ignore all you want. It means you lose the argument. The actual lifestyle of the travelers - which is not something we impose on them - is what reduces their life span. An uncontroversial opinion if we are discussing settled people ( i.e. life span is lower in Scotland because of lifestyle and fried mars bars).

And we all know that these kind of opinions are held by a lot of people in Ireland.

Based on experience, I imagine. However second class citizenship is based on laws, not attitudes. There are elite clubs who will discriminate against me,and most of us. There are businesses which are invitation only. So it goes. If anything the law favours travellers.

Anyway that ends that for me, as this thread will go overboard otherwise.

The King of Moo · 23-01-2012 02:39PM

token101 wrote: »

The sense of entitlement among people in receipt of social welfare is sickening at times. Food, water and adequate housing is a right. €188 a week isn't.

The demonisation against 'racists' is insanity at times. The abuse levelled at Darren Scully and Alan Hanson coming to mind. Discriminating against someone on the basis they are of a particular race is wrong. IMO neither of these people did that.

I don't want travellers living near me, in my town, or coming anywhere near my business. I don't believe they are all bad, but many are the scum of the earth. My own experiences form my opinions, not what society and those who have most likely never had direct experiences think. And I don't believe for a second that travellers are a race. It's a lifestyle choice.

Darren Scully said he would not deal with Black Africans.
He therefore discriminated against people because of their skin colour.
I'd find it hard to think of a better example of racism.

Paparazzo · 23-01-2012 02:47PM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Muhammad Ali was a racist.

Ohhhhh!
I'll go one further. Muhammad Ali was a complete knobend.

token101 · 23-01-2012 02:55PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

What a load of bollocks.

Who'd want to die younger than the rest of the population? Who'd want to have significantly worse health than the rest of the population? Who'd want to be treated like second-class citizens all their lives?

The same people who choose to wreck every almost campsite they're ever given, fight with anyone at the drop of a hat, hold illegal fights on country roads, attack any kind of person who tries to intervene in either of the last two. The same people who will intimidate people refusing to buy whatever they are selling. The same people who time and time again will wreck a hotel/bar given to them by anyone who trusts them to act like decent human beings. These are all choices made by a hell of a lot more than a few in travelling community.

They live in a first world country where they have the same access to health, welfare services as anyone else. They are treated the same way they behave. If they act outside the norms of society, by treating property and people with utter disrespect and violent contempt, they'll be treated similarly. To say we should hold them up as some sort of repressed underclass is utter f**king nonsense.

onlyrocknroll · 23-01-2012 03:00PM

Peetrik wrote: »

Shakespeare was rubbish, boring romantic drivel. Call me a philistine if you like...

Fair enough, each to their own... even if it's either a very selective or a very misinformed reading of Shakespeare.

but I suspect anyone who 'likes' Shakespeare really means they enjoy being thought of as intellectuals.

Nah that's just patently stupid and not a little obnoxious.

token101 · 23-01-2012 03:09PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Darren Scully said he would not deal with Black Africans.
He therefore discriminated against people because of their skin colour.
I'd find it hard to think of a better example of racism.

He said we wouldn't deal with members of the African community because of their bad attitude and manners towards him, not because they were black. There's a difference. I'm willing to bet that if he'd said he prefers dealing with them because they're so friendly, no one would have batted an eyelid. It's a double standard. If he said that about a group of people from certain street in the area, there'd be no problem.

token101 · 23-01-2012 03:17PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I'm ignoring this drivel.

There are no laws but the way they are treated by the general populaiton is discriminatory. For example, opinions like this:

So there you have, in a recession, a businessman who will willingly turn down business because some prospective clients belong to a certain group. That is discrimination.

And we all know that these kind of opinions are held by a lot of people in Ireland.

I didn't say I'd turn them away. That would be illegal. I said I don't want them. There's a difference. When said clients come in continously, and wreck your premises, threaten staff, other customers, what is a business owner supposed to do? Say it's not all of them, it just appears to be? It's a commonly held opinion because it's based on experience. Discriminating against people based on something they can't control, ie color, is wrong. Discriminating against people based on their actions is a perfectly legitimate practice and people doing so being branded racists is BS.

The King of Moo · 23-01-2012 03:19PM

token101 wrote: »

He said we wouldn't deal with members of the African community because of their bad attitude and manners towards him, not because they were black. There's a difference. I'm willing to bet that if he'd said he prefers dealing with them because they're so friendly, no one would have batted an eyelid. It's a double standard. If he said that about a group of people from certain street in the area, there'd be no problem.

RTÉ.ie: Speaking to Clem Ryan on KFM's 'Kildare Today', Cllr Scully said he made his decision based on what he described as the "aggressive attitude" he has experienced when representations were made to him by "black Africans".

Here's a link to a transcript of the interview in which he made his remarks.

He specified that his problems were with black Africans. He was therefore specifying people based on the continent they were from and their skin colour.

As mentioned many times in the thread on him, if his problems were with African people being aggressive towards him, he should have said he was refusing to deal with aggressive people, and that would have dealt with the problem (if it existed) in a way that would have avoided him saying something which could be construed as racist.
In fact, he probably would've got a lot of support for saying something like that.

Instead, he made a point of singling out black Africans, as, based on previous remarks of his, the guy likes stirring up trouble to get himself some attention.

token101 · 23-01-2012 03:39PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Here's a link to a transcript of the interview in which he made his remarks.

He specified that his problems were with black Africans. He was therefore specifying people based on the continent they were from and their skin colour.

As mentioned many times in the thread on him, if his problems were with African people being aggressive towards him, he should have said he was refusing to deal with aggressive people, and that would have dealt with the problem (if it existed) in a way that would have avoided him saying something which could be construed as racist.
In fact, he probably would've got a lot of support for saying something like that.

Instead, he made a point of singling out black Africans, as, based on previous remarks of his, the guy likes stirring up trouble to get himself some attention.

There's the key issue. Construed. To me and many others, Black Africans was meant as a descriptive term in the context he's talking about. If it isn't, then why do people even make reference to various communities at all, ie the Polish community, the Slovak community, the African community, or the Irish community when we're abroad. I've heard politicians reference these communities countless times in positive ways, like when we hear about how these contribute to society, which is true. Why is so different when people highlight the negative aspects of a said community? If you generalise positively as most do, you can't utterly condemn someone for generalising negatively. He's guilty of generalising if anything, and to be treated the way he has because of it is ludricous.

If he came out and said 'I wont deal with Africans because they're black', then fine he's a racist and deserves all the villification he gets. He didn't. He's refusing to deal with them because they were aggressive. It's not because they are black or African. It just so happens they're part of a set community.

Also, as an aside, do you really think he did this to get attention? Surely there's better ways.

The King of Moo · 23-01-2012 04:14PM

token101 wrote: »

There's the key issue. Construed. To me and many others, Black Africans was meant as a descriptive term in the context he's talking about. If it isn't, then why do people even make reference to various communities at all, ie the Polish community, the Slovak community, the African community, or the Irish community when we're abroad. I've heard politicians reference these communities countless times in positive ways, like when we hear about how these contribute to society, which is true. Why is so different when people highlight the negative aspects of a said community? If you generalise positively as most do, you can't utterly condemn someone for generalising negatively. He's guilty of generalising if anything, and to be treated the way he has because of it is ludricous.

If he came out and said 'I wont deal with Africans because they're black', then fine he's a racist and deserves all the villification he gets. He didn't. He's refusing to deal with them because they were aggressive. It's not because they are black or African. It just so happens they're part of a set community.

Also, as an aside, do you really think he did this to get attention? Surely there's better ways.

Going by his previous remarks about single mothers, I think he might've been looking for attention.

I agree that he's guilty of generalising about a particular community (though black Africans are a pretty big community) but he identified this community by their skin colour, meaning he was tarring all people from Africa who have black skin (a hugely diversified group of different tribal/national identities) with the same brush and by deciding to discriminate against them he was acting in a racist manner, whether he intended to or not.
He was effectively saying that all black Africans are aggressive, even if that wasn't his intention.

Even if there were some truth to what he was saying (and I believe it was a gross generalisation), what he said was, by definition, racist.

Whether you think he was right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but what he said was a dictionary definition of racism (which he himself acknowledged in the radio interview).

Dudess · 23-01-2012 06:20PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

This thread is no where near as interesting as I thought it would be and is infact, quite boring.

So many of the posts are neither opinions, nor unpopular.

Yahew · 23-01-2012 06:42PM

Jedward are a class act.

Karl Pilkington is putting it on.

dirtyden · 23-01-2012 09:15PM

Dudess wrote: »

So many of the posts are neither opinions, nor unpopular.

I assume you are being ironic?

Deus Ex Machina · 23-01-2012 09:23PM

Dudess wrote: »

So many of the posts are neither opinions, nor unpopular.

u jelly

Paddy Cow · 24-01-2012 04:40AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

"They all look the same to me"

Would I be called racist for saying that?
But I find it true and realy I don't know if my taximan is the guy in the photo or could be his brother or someone else

Find it more difficult to match a black face to a photo

It's not racist Cross-race effect I'm rubbish with faces and even most white people look the same to me lol

Dudess · 24-01-2012 05:35AM

dirtyden wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

So many of the posts are neither opinions, nor unpopular.

I assume you are being ironic?

No. "I hate travellers", "I hate de Romanians" - not unpopular opinions. Those are just two examples.
And an opinion is a subjective view that's neither true nor false - as opposed to the unsubstantiated assumptions/paranoid suspicions/lies here. E.g. "People who like Shakespeare are trying to look clever, derp" - no proof, nothing.

token101 · 24-01-2012 09:53AM

Dudess wrote: »

And an opinion is a subjective view that's neither true nor false - as opposed to the unsubstantiated assumptions/paranoid suspicions/lies here.

How is it an unsubstantiated assumption or paranoid or a lie if you have direct experience of this happening to you? Surely every decision you ever make in your life should be based on your experience?

ronjo · 24-01-2012 10:36AM

Dudess wrote: »

No. "I hate travellers", "I hate de Romanians" - not unpopular opinions. Those are just two examples.
And an opinion is a subjective view that's neither true nor false - as opposed to the unsubstantiated assumptions/paranoid suspicions/lies here. E.g. "People who like Shakespeare are trying to look clever, derp" - no proof, nothing.

Do you need proof to have an opinion?
I thought this was the purpose of the thread.
I am not agreeing with the poster but if its their opinion, then fair enough surely.

AngryBollix · 24-01-2012 10:56AM

I'd finger Miley Cyrus

Dudess · 24-01-2012 11:01AM

token101 wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

And an opinion is a subjective view that's neither true nor false - as opposed to the unsubstantiated assumptions/paranoid suspicions/lies here.

How is it an unsubstantiated assumption or paranoid or a lie if you have direct experience of this happening to you? Surely every decision you ever make in your life should be based on your experience?

I'm not referring to those. What I mean is: people posting stuff based on something they merely "feel" - the Shakespeare thing being an example.

Unpopular Opinions.

Comments