Possible Irish SOPA Law? :/

Amirani · 22-01-2012 5:36pm

LighterGuy wrote: »

best ones are the debates about stealing vs copyright infringement :rolleyes: ... YOU GOT SOMETHING FOR FREE YOU SURE AS FUCK DIDNT PAY FOR IT! Again, call a spade a spade.

I suppose there's no difference between somebody walking into town and stabbing somebody and killing an intruder in your home with the knife they brought. Sure it's all murder, let's call a spade a space. :rolleyes:

Simple fact is you're wrong.

DeVore · 22-01-2012 7:41pm

Its being snuck through this month.

If you thought the defamation laws made the Irish internet "difficult"... this will kill us off.

Please help, particularly on Twitter (@Devore is my username there) and we hope to be doing something about it on Boards too (currently planning).

DeV.

squod · 22-01-2012 7:51pm

Have sent e-mails to lots of TDs particularly ''EMI Sherlock''. Willing to gamble thousands of jobs at not cost to himself. I think people should at least e-mail their local TD about this.

Unfortunately my local FG TD doesn't speak English.

Laisurg · 22-01-2012 8:05pm

pmcmahon wrote: »

Whatever about the recession and all that,but if something like that came in There would be a national emergency called because of the riots it would incur.

Not in this country.

The_Thing · 22-01-2012 8:08pm

In related news it seems that the arrogance of the MPAA knows no bounds - http://torrentfreak.com/white-house-petitioned-to-investigate-mpaa-bribery-120122/

When you pirate a Hollywood movie you can be happy in the knoweledge that none of your hard-earned money has been used to prop up the state of Israel.

bealtine · 22-01-2012 8:13pm

squod wrote: »

Unfortunately my local FG TD doesn't speak English.

Only does "doublespeak"?

Gman1 · 22-01-2012 8:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I sent a number if emails to Sean Sherlock regarding this when it was first mentioned a few months back. I pointed out the EU law, digital downloads, ect and asked why was it that the Irish government was lobbying on behalf of private companies to help protect profits and restrict access to the Internet. I asked him would they allow sites such as Flickr to be removed as there are numerous copyrighted images on the site or if they would take in google, yahoo, bing, etc which offer easied access to copyright material than any other site. I asked him to provide me with documents/proof that could link the fall of CDs with piracy.

I've yet to receive a reply.

Ive also yet to receive a reply, I pointed the same things out to him. I also pointed out that the entertainment industry is at the center of creating the file sharing software. Check out these videos by JeepersMedia, there is a lot of truth and facts backing up what he says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ

Also, other links:
EMI Sues Irish State For Not Implementing Piracy Blocking Provisions

US Threatened To Blacklist Spain For Not Implementing Site Blocking Law

bealtine · 22-01-2012 8:18pm

DeVore wrote: »

Its being snuck through this month.

If you thought the defamation laws made the Irish internet "difficult"... this will kill us off.

Please help, particularly on Twitter (@Devore is my username there) and we hope to be doing something about it on Boards too (currently planning).

DeV.

We are starting to get organized, emailing TDs is pointless as they don't know how to use that new fangled stuff anyway. which is the main reason EMI/IRMA can get stupid laws onto the books...
The main point of contact so far is just a Facebook group but we need a website or a central forum on here, as the efforts are very disorganized as yet.

DRI is the most authoritative voice at present and IrelandOffline will join in too and help to organize and coordinate responses. PM me if there's anyway I can help.

squod · 22-01-2012 8:18pm

bealtine wrote: »

Only does "doublespeak"?

John Kenny, Father Ted. Episode where they sing my lovely horse? That's him.

nacho libre · 22-01-2012 8:22pm

Stopping SOPA and other legislation like it would be more effective if there were mass boycotts of the companies that support it.

here are some of them:

1-800 Contacts, Inc.
1-800-PetMeds
2b1 Inc
3M Company
ABRO Industries, Inc.
Acushnet Company
adidas America
Advanced Medical Technology Association (AdvaMed)
Allen Russell Photograph
Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers
Alliance of Visual Artists (AVA)
Altria Client Services
American Apparel and Footwear Association
American Association of Independent Music (A2IM)
American Board of Internal Medicine
American Federation of Musicians
American Gramaphone LLC
American Made Alliance
American Mental Health Counselors Association
American Photographic Artists
American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
American Society of Media Photographers
American Society of Picture Professionals
American Watch Association
Anatoly Pronin Photography
Andrea Rugg Photography
Anti-Counterfeiting and Piracy Initiative (ACAPI)
Applied DNA Sciences
Art Holeman Photography
Association of American Publishers (AAP)
Association of Equipment Manufacturers
Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP)
Association of Test Publishers
AstraZeneca plc
Australian Medical Council
Autodesk, Inc.
Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association
Baker & Taylor Ent.
Bay State Psychological Associates
Beachbody, LLC
Beam Global Spirits & Wine
Blue Sky Studios, Inc.
Bose Corporation
Braasch Biotech LLC
Brian Stevenson Photography
Brigid Collins Family Support Center
Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI)
Burberry
C. F. Martin & Co., Inc.
Callaway Golf Company
Cascade Designs Incorporated
Caterpillar Inc.
Caveon, LLC
CBS Corporation
Cengage Learning
Center for Credentialing & Education
Center Stage Photography
CFA Institute
Chanel USA
Christopher Semmes Photography
Church Music Publishers Association
CMH Images
Coach
Coalition Against Counterfeiting and Piracy (CACP)
Columbia Sportswear Company
Comcast Corporation
Commercial Photo Design
Commercial Photographers International
Comprehensive Adult Student Assessment System
Consumer Healthcare Products Association
Copyright Alliance
Copyright Clearance Center (CCC)
Coty Inc.
Council of Fashion Designers of America
Country Music Association
CropLife America
Cross-Entertainment LLC
CSA Group
CVS Caremark
D'Addario & Company, Inc.
Dan Sherwood Photography
Danita Delimont Stock Photography
Dayco Products, LLC
Deluxe Entertainment Services Group
Dennyfoto
Derek DiLuzio Photography
DeVaul Photography
Direct Selling Association (DSA)
Directional Insight
Distefano Enterprises Inc.
Doriguzzi Photographic Artistry
Dolby Laboratories, Inc.
Dolce & Gabbana USA, INC.
Dollar General Corporation
Don Grall Photography
Dunford Architectural Photography
Eagle Rock Entertainment
Ed McDonald Photography
Educational & Industrial Testing Service
Electronic Arts, Inc.
Electronic Components Industry Association (ECIA)
Eli Lilly and Company
Englebert Photography
Entertainment Software Association (ESA)
ERAI, Inc.
Eric Meola Studio Inc
Evidence Photographers International Council
Ex Officio
Exxel Outdoors
FAME Publishing Co., LLC.
FAME Recording Studios
Far Bank Enterprises
Fashion Business Incorporated
Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy
Fender Musical Instrument Company
Footwear Distributors & Retailers of America (FDRA)
Ford Motor Company
Fortune Brands, Inc.
Fred J. Lord Photography
GAR Associates
Gelderland Productions, L.L.C.
Gemvision Corporation
Gibson Guitar Corp.
GlaxoSmithKline
Gospel Music Association
Governors America Corp.
Graduate Management Admission Council
Graphic Artists Guild
Greeting Card Association (GCA)
Greg Nikas Photography
Guru Denim
H.S. Marketing & Design, Inc.
Harley-Davidson Motor Company
HarperCollins Publishers
Harry Fox Agency
Hastings Entertainment, Inc.
ICM Distributing Company, Inc.
IDS Publishing
IEC Electronics corp.
Images Plus
Imaging Supplies Coalition (ISC)
Independent Distributors of Electronics Association (IDEA)
INgrooves
Innate-gear
International AntiCounterfeiting Coalition (IACC)
International Trademark Association (INTA)
IPC-Association Connecting Electronics Industries
Ira Montgomery Photography
J.S. Grove Photography
James Drug Inc.
Jaynes Gallery
JCPage Photography
Jean Poland Photography
Jeff Stevensen Photography
John Fulton Photography
John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
Johnson & Johnson
Juicy Couture, Inc
Julien McRoberts Photography
K&R Photographics
kate spade
Kekepana International Services
Kenneth Garrett, photographer for National Geographic
Killing Jar Productions LLC
Lacoste USA
Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.
Lexmark International, Inc.
Light Perspectives
Linda Olsen Photography
Little Dog Records
Liz Claiborne, Inc
L'Oréal USA
Lucky Brand Jeans
LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton
Macmillan
Major League Baseball
Marcia Andberg Associates LLC
Mark Niederman Photography
Marmot
Marona Photography
McLain Photography Inc
Merck & Co., Inc.
Messy Face Designs, Inc.
Michael Stern Photography
MicroRam Electronics, Inc.
Minter Works of Art
Mira Images
Monster Cable Products, Inc.
Moose’s Photos
Morningstar Films LLC
Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA)
MotionMasters
Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association
MPA - The Association of Magazine Media
Mr. Theodor Feibel (sole proprietor)
Music Managers Forum-U.S.
Nashville Songwriters Association International
Natalie Neckyfarow Actor/Dancer/Singer
National Association of Broadcasters
National Association of Manufacturers
National Association of Recording Merchandisers (NARM)
National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO)
National Basketball Association (NBA)
National Board for Certified Counselors
National Board for Certified Counselors Foundation
National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA)
National Football League (NFL)
National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA)
National Retail Federation (NRF)
NBCUniversal
Nervous Tattoo Inc., dba Ed Hardy
New Balance Athletic Shoe, Inc.
New Era Cap Co Inc
New Levels Ent. Co. LLC
News Corporation
Next Decade Entertainment, Inc.
NHL Enterprises, L.P.
Nicholas Petrucci, Artist, LLC
Nike, Inc.
Nintendo of America Inc.
Nissle Fine Art Photography
North Dakota Pharmacists Association
North Dakota Pharmacy Service Corporation
Oakley, Inc.
One Voice Recordings
OpSec Security, Inc.
Outdoor Industry Association
Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI)
Outdoor Research, Inc
Pacific Component Xchange, Inc.
Party Killer Films LLC
Pearson Clinical Assessment
Peavey Electronics Corporation
Perry Ellis International
Personal Care Products Council
Peter C. Brandt, Architectural and Fine Art Photography
Peter Hawkins Photography, Inc.
Petzl America
Pfizer Inc.
PGA of America
Philip Morris International
Photojournalist Dave Bartruff
Picture Archive Council of America (PACA)
Pigfactory Music
PING
PNW Images
Premier League
Production Music Association (PMA)
Professional Photographers of America
Quality Float Works, Inc.
Raging Waters Music
Ralph Lauren Corporation
Ramsay Corporation
Rebel Photo
Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)
Red4 Music/Doogs Rock Inc
Red Wing Shoe Company
Reebok International Ltd.
Reed Elsevier Inc.
Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA)
Revlon
Richard Flutie Photography
Rite Aid
Robin Davis Photography, Inc.
Rodger Scott Craig, a member of Liverpool Express, The Merseybeats, Fortune, Harlan
Cage, 101 South, and Mtunz Media
Roger Smith Photography Services
Rolex Watch USA Inc.
Romance Writers of America (RWA)
Rosetta Stone Inc.
Saddle Creek
Sage Studios LLC
Sam D'Amico Photography
Schneider Electric
Sean McGinty Photography
Secret Sea Visions (Photography)
SESAC, Inc.
SG Industries, Inc.
Shure Incorporated
SIGMA Assessment Systems
Six Degrees Records
Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council
SMC Entertainment
SMT Corp.
SoBe Entertainment
Society of Sport & Event Photographers
Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA)
Sony Electronics Inc.
Sony Music Entertainment
Sony Pictures Entertainment
Soul Appeal Records and Music
SoundExchange
Southern Gothic LLC
Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)
SPI (The Plastics Industry Trade Association)
Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association
Sports Rights Owners Coalition
Spring Fever Productions LLC
Spyder Active Sports, Inc
Stenbakken Photography
Stephen Dantzig Photography
Stock Artist Alliance
Stuart Weitzman Holdings, LLC
Student Photographic Society
Studio 404
SunRise Solar Inc.
Taylor Glenn Photographs
Taylor Guitars
Taylor Made Golf Company, Inc.
Tednologies, Inc.
The Cambridge Don
The Collegiate Licensing Company/IMG College
The Donath Group, Inc.
The Dow Chemical Company
The Estee Lauder Companies
The McGraw-Hill Companies
The Music People! Inc.
The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)
The Recording Academy (National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences)
The Timberland Company
The Walt Disney Company
Tiffany & Co.
Time Warner Inc.
Tony Bullard Photography
Toshiba America Business Solutions, Inc.
TRA Global
Tricoast Worldwide
Trio Productions, Inc. / Songscape Music,
Twist & Shout, Inc.
U.S. Chamber of Commerce
Ultimate Fighting Championship
Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
Universal Music Group
Uniweld Products Inc.
VF Corporation
Viacom
Vibram USA, Inc
Virtual Chip Exchange USA, Inc.
Voltage Pictures, LLC
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
Walcott Studio, LLC
Wal-Mart
Warner Music Group
Wendy Kaveney Photography
Western Psychological Services
Westmorland Images, LLC
Wild & Associates, Inc.
Wild Eye Photos LLC
William Sutton Photography
Willis Music
WindLegends Ink LLC
Winestem Company
Winslow Research Institute
Wolfe Video
Wolverine World Wide, Inc.
Woolrich, Inc.
World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc.
Xerox Corporation
Zippo Manufacturing Company
Zumba Fitness, LLC

bealtine · 22-01-2012 8:23pm

squod wrote: »

John Kenny, Father Ted. Episode where they sing my lovely horse? That's him.

I know Jon Kenny personally, he does speak something approximating to English, this I can assure you...obviously you don't mean *THE* Jon Kenny but...

I know those types of TDs, all this internet is doubletalk to them anyway.

LighterGuy · 22-01-2012 8:27pm

NiallSparky wrote: »

I suppose there's no difference between somebody walking into town and stabbing somebody and killing an intruder in your home with the knife they brought. Sure it's all murder, let's call a spade a space. :rolleyes:

Simple fact is you're wrong.

how in the blue hell can you make that comparison to downloading?

you alright mate?

GarIT · 22-01-2012 9:01pm

90% of you are probably gonna want to kill me but I support the crackdown on pirate materials but not sites that are used by pirates. I know someone who used Limewire to send an audition tape to america before and Limewire was a good service that shouldn't have been shut down, but maybe there should have been stricter regulations on the pirate materials on limewire.

I currently stream from Vivo and sometimes Muzu for my music via 3G, I dont download anything legally or illegally.

I have to say though I will never buy a DVD where I pay money to get a dvd and they dare to put ads on it. We need legslation to ban advertising on dvds and in cinemas.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2012 9:10pm

Who defines a pirate website ?

youtube will at any given time contain reams of copyrighted material , one example being chart videos, even whole films have been uploaded in a series of shot videos, facebook too

what about google ads ?
if they link to dodgy sites will google be blocked ?

or search results, will google.ie have to guarantee that it doesn't link to dodgy sites ?

look at twitter in recent UK court injunctions, I'm sure there are copyright implications there too

EU allows free movement of goods and services,
http://gutenberg.net.au/ - this should be blocked because the copyright rules in Oz are different to here

let's block archive.org , bound to be something dodgy there.

Evey month someone on boards asks about buying windows at 1/10 the regular price. It's always a dodgy website. US law allows draconian punishments for fraud (it's not just 5 years) up to 20 years IIRC and I can't remember any concerted campaign against such sites that yielded extraditions. In fact since about the only way to pay is via paypal or credit card making the payment company liable in cases of blatant fraud might be much easier.

But google, paypal & co. employ a LOT of people here...

If only the same level of interest was paid to road safety where law enforcement is random
http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/Vehicle-Speed-Survey-Shows-Mixed-Results/

1,296 articulated vehicles were also monitored during the Free Speed Survey to determine their compliance levels with the posted speed limits on different road types. ... The report found that 65% of articulated vehicles observed on rural roads were speeding

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2012 9:28pm

Excluding people involved in live music, ( and artists who don't pay tax here ), how many people are actually employed in the distribution of downloadable content in Ireland ?

How much of the down turn in media sales are caused by people moving to grey imports and play.com and itunes and a reaction to chart music ?

There are demographic shifts, or supporters of chart music staying away in droves.
http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/older-music-acts-drive-us-touring-revenue-15886/

In 2011, the lead singers for eight of the 20 top-grossing US live acts from 2000-2009 will be 60 or older.

In 2010 only 6% of the top 20 revenue came from lead singers in their 30's or younger.

How many people are employed here or how many jobs the IDA would like to get here are in companies who have campaigned against SOPA ?

Sheeps · 22-01-2012 9:38pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Who defines a pirate website ?

youtube will at any given time contain reams of copyrighted material , one example being chart videos, even whole films have been uploaded in a series of shot videos, facebook too

what about google ads ?
if they link to dodgy sites will google be blocked ?

or search results, will google.ie have to guarantee that it doesn't link to dodgy sites ?

look at twitter in recent UK court injunctions, I'm sure there are copyright implications there too

EU allows free movement of goods and services,
http://gutenberg.net.au/ - this should be blocked because the copyright rules in Oz are different to here

let's block archive.org , bound to be something dodgy there.

Evey month someone on boards asks about buying windows at 1/10 the regular price. It's always a dodgy website. US law allows draconian punishments for fraud (it's not just 5 years) up to 20 years IIRC and I can't remember any concerted campaign against such sites that yielded extraditions. In fact since about the only way to pay is via paypal or credit card making the payment company liable in cases of blatant fraud might be much easier.

But google, paypal & co. employ a LOT of people here...

If only the same level of interest was paid to road safety where law enforcement is random
http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/Vehicle-Speed-Survey-Shows-Mixed-Results/

Since you've linked to all of those offending sites, you might as well add Boards.ie to that list.

batistuta9 · 22-01-2012 9:42pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Stopping SOPA and other legislation like it would be more effective if there were mass boycotts of the companies that support it.

here are some of them:

where did you get that list?

i seen one the other day that was far smaller & two companies that i remembered from it aren't even on the list you gave

Fluorescence · 22-01-2012 9:44pm

GarIT wrote: »

90% of you are probably gonna want to kill me but I support the crackdown on pirate materials but not sites that are used by pirates. I know someone who used Limewire to send an audition tape to america before and Limewire was a good service that shouldn't have been shut down, but maybe there should have been stricter regulations on the pirate materials on limewire.

I currently stream from Vivo and sometimes Muzu for my music via 3G, I dont download anything legally or illegally.

I have to say though I will never buy a DVD where I pay money to get a dvd and they dare to put ads on it. We need legslation to ban advertising on dvds and in cinemas.

This law isn't about preventing piracy at all - that's just the guise to have it voted in by white haired luddites who hear "piracy" and say to themselves "well that's bad." People passing this legislation will, by and large, know nothing of the scope of the internet as a platform for self expression and communication. They are pretty much ignorant of internet culture.

There's an excellent blog post by Irish professor of Law in UCD, Adrian Weckler, that demonstrates just how loosely worded this piece of legislation is.

Adrian Weckler wrote:

The clear implication from his interview with Sean Sherlock is that the proposed measures will be lacking in any real detail, leaving it entirely up to the judges as to what types of blocking might emerge. (Possibly going beyond web blocking to also target hosting and other services.) This ambiguity - as well as jeopardising fundamental rights - will create intolerable uncertainty for businesses such as Google who might find themselves at risk of business threatening and unpredictable injunctions and will certainly deter others from setting up in Ireland. Instead, any action should only take place by primary legislation which the Oireachtas would have a chance to scrutinise and debate.

...more

Don't think for a second this law is about combatting piracy. It's not. Not even a tiny little bit. If you value freedom of speech and self expression, you should be strongly opposed to this. Don't be deceived.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2012 9:45pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Since you've linked to all of those offending sites, you might as well add Boards.ie to that list.

Et voilá

22-01-2012 10:10pm

Gman1 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I sent a number if emails to Sean Sherlock regarding this when it was first mentioned a few months back. I pointed out the EU law, digital downloads, ect and asked why was it that the Irish government was lobbying on behalf of private companies to help protect profits and restrict access to the Internet. I asked him would they allow sites such as Flickr to be removed as there are numerous copyrighted images on the site or if they would take in google, yahoo, bing, etc which offer easied access to copyright material than any other site. I asked him to provide me with documents/proof that could link the fall of CDs with piracy.

I've yet to receive a reply.

Ive also yet to receive a reply, I pointed the same things out to him. I also pointed out that the entertainment industry is at the center of creating the file sharing software. Check out these videos by JeepersMedia, there is a lot of truth and facts backing up what he says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ

Also, other links:
EMI Sues Irish State For Not Implementing Piracy Blocking Provisions

US Threatened To Blacklist Spain For Not Implementing Site Blocking Law

About to send this:

Dear Mr. Sherlock,
From the various comments you have made on the upcoming law which will force ISPs to block access to certain websites you have repeatedly stated that you have emailed/phoned companies such as EMI to personally assure them that you are doing your damnedest to protect their interests. Yet you won't show the same decency to the average Irish citizen and take two minutes out of your day to answer any of the numerous emails sent by myself and others regarding this law.
It's nice to know that elected officials can make the time to assure big business that their best interests are being looked after but you don't have the decency to take 30 seconds of your time to send a dimple email saying that you are considering all aspects of the issue.
I have on numerous times tried calling but have yet to be put through to you a d the promises of a call back have yet to be followed through.
If I do not receive a reply to this email I will be visiting your office in person to discuss this issue. I will also be contacting newspapers and informing them of your lack of response to anyone who has contacted you to point out the serious faults in this law which will destroy our emerging tech industry.

Yours

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2012 10:19pm

http://i.imgur.com/xGqSJ.jpg

except the roles are reversed.

Gman1 · 22-01-2012 10:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

About to send this:

Dear Mr. Sherlock,
From the various comments you have made on the upcoming law which will force ISPs to block access to certain websites you have repeatedly stated that you have emailed/phoned companies such as EMI to personally assure them that you are doing your damnedest to protect their interests. Yet you won't show the same decency to the average Irish citizen and take two minutes out of your day to answer any of the numerous emails sent by myself and others regarding this law.
It's nice to know that elected officials can make the time to assure big business that their best interests are being looked after but you don't have the decency to take 30 seconds of your time to send a dimple email saying that you are considering all aspects of the issue.
I have on numerous times tried calling but have yet to be put through to you a d the promises of a call back have yet to be followed through.
If I do not receive a reply to this email I will be visiting your office in person to discuss this issue. I will also be contacting newspapers and informing them of your lack of response to anyone who has contacted you to point out the serious faults in this law which will destroy our emerging tech industry.

Yours

I cc'd editors and newspapers when I emailed Sherlock. No luck!

Also this lawyer got some talk out of him:
http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2012/01/adrian-weckler-confims-that-irelands.html

Phill Ewinn · 22-01-2012 10:43pm

This is like Anglo all over again. It's not like Sherlock doesn't know what he's doing. Something more needs to be done. Anyway we can get him onto the TV? Have him explain why he intends wrecking jobs and setting the country back ten years.

Gman1 · 22-01-2012 10:49pm

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

This is like Anglo all over again. It's not like Sherlock doesn't know what he's doing. Something more needs to be done. Anyway we can get him onto the TV? Have him explain why he intends wrecking jobs and setting the country back ten years.

Stacy Herbertjust tweeted this:

If the Irish weren't able to prevent tens of billions being transferred to unsecured bondholders of Anglo Irish,can they stop their SOPA?

And your right about the jobs! Google, Facebook and the others will pack their bags and leave

Temptamperu · 22-01-2012 11:03pm

Found this, its really interesting.

http://www.ted.com/talks/defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea.html?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2012-01-20

Trevor451 · 22-01-2012 11:46pm

Looks like after the megaupload takedown, file sharing sites are starting to self censor themselves

http://markets.financialcontent.com/mng-ba.mercurynews/news/read?GUID=20222568

bealtine · 22-01-2012 11:50pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Et voilá

You can bet boards.ie will be one of the targets, evil and nasty and fighting the will of the good guys like EMI and IRMA...

This is not about piracy,we don't ban roads because criminals use them to drive away from bank robberies or say there's a lot of crime in Limerick so the road won't go there...

This is simply a land grab by the "entertainment" industry to control vast swathes of the internet.

44leto · 23-01-2012 12:29am

How will this legislation effect jobs??

nacho libre · 23-01-2012 12:58am

batistuta9 wrote: »

where did you get that list?

i seen one the other day that was far smaller & two companies that i remembered from it aren't even on the list you gave

I got it from reddit.com. Which two companies were they? Bear in mind I didn't say it was a list of all companies supporting it.

CiaranC · 23-01-2012 12:58am

44leto wrote: »

How will this legislation effect jobs??

Why dont you read the thread? It will not be viable for a business like Google to operate in Ireland if this legislation passes.

nacho libre · 23-01-2012 1:02am

44leto wrote: »

How will this legislation effect jobs??

A lot of if sites like youtube and google are forced to shut down. Obviously that won't likely happen, but in theory this new legislation would give US lawmakers the power to do things like that

Amirani · 23-01-2012 1:09am

LighterGuy wrote: »

how in the blue hell can you make that comparison to downloading?

you alright mate?

I didn't make a comparison. You obviously don't know what a comparison is.

mikom · 23-01-2012 1:44am

Deleted User wrote: »

About to send this:

It's nice to know that elected officials can make the time to assure big business that their best interests are being looked after but you don't have the decency to take 30 seconds of your time to send a dimple email saying that you are considering all aspects of the issue.

Don't be confusing the lad....

Daftendirekt · 23-01-2012 1:57am

44leto wrote: »

How will this legislation effect jobs??

It forces website owners to police whatever content users upload or link to.

So if I were to put a link to Megavideo here, Boards would be responsible, and the IP owners could seek a court order to force the ISP's to block it. (Something along those lines anyway.)

Think of the climate this would create for the tech industry in Ireland. Sites like YouTube simply can't monitor everything that's uploaded to it, not to mention Google. I don't see any reason to presume Email providers would be exempt, either. Wikipedia is a site that's completely dependent on users uploading content, and even though it actively tries to prevent any copyright infringement, any randomer linking to a dodgy site could leave it exposed.

No one would be crazy enough to try and build a new tech start-up knowing that they could be shut down at the whim of EMI.

If this all sounds completely bonkers, it's important to bear in mind that the people pushing for this don't necessarily know the first thing about the net or how it works.

They've got the content industry whispering in their ear that piracy is hurting them and something, anything has to be done to stop it. In reality, while piracy is hurting them to an extent, a lot of the damage is self inflicted - their ultimate goal is to protect their traditional revenue streams. At any cost. So rather than update their business model, they're taking the easier route of lobbying well-meaning but woefully misguided politicians, who probably don't even recognise the severity of what's being proposed. They probably do think that this will protect jobs and prevent piracy, while being completely oblivious to the damage it'll do.

I know it sounds horribly conspiracy theory-ish to say it, but this new trend of extremely draconian anti-piracy legislation really is about Internet censorship. The Internet has damaged the content industry's monopoly, but not through piracy. It's given consumers greater choice as to what to buy and where to buy from and for the first time content creators (artists, musicians, film-makers and the like) are able to reach their target markets directly and on their own terms, effectively cutting out the need for a middle-man.

So of course, EMI and co aren't happy with that.

People's problem with this kind of legislation isn't that it'll prevent them from getting free stuff (people are still more than happy to pay for music, they're just buying it in a different format) or that they're opposed to the idea of intellectual property. The problem is that this is legislation that's being passed for the sole purpose of keeping a group of lobbyists happy at the expense of Ireland, and quite possibly its economic recovery.

It's a classic example of big business having too much influence over our elected officials. People need to remind them who they're accountable to at the end of the day.

RobbingBandit · 23-01-2012 2:18am

It's time we face facts in this country we are the guinea pig for any and all new innovations like this in Europe for as long as we are in debt to the overlords. Greece, Spain or Italy would riot if anything like this was proposed for them, we will bitch and moan but accept it with ass cheeks spread while Germany and France accept Google, Facebook, Paypal and all others based here with open arms.

LighterGuy · 23-01-2012 2:29am

NiallSparky wrote: »

I didn't make a comparison. You obviously don't know what a comparison is.

we're talking about downloading. You mention killing people. In reference to my "call a spade a spade" comment.

downloading >>> murder

generalmiaow · 23-01-2012 2:30am

RobbingBandit wrote: »

It's time we face facts in this country we are the guinea pig for any and all new innovations like this in Europe for as long as we are in debt to the overlords. Greece, Spain or Italy would riot if anything like this was proposed for them, we will bitch and moan but accept it with ass cheeks spread while Germany and France accept Google, Facebook, Paypal and all others based here with open arms.

That's not exactly true. France, Italy and Denmark and the UK all have similar laws to this. Germany narrowly avoided it and seems to be moving in the direction of copyright reform instead.

It's extremely frustrating trying to find out information about this proposed legislation. From what I can see, nobody has any idea about it except that it's a reaction to the government being unable to respond to industry requests to block sites. However, I hold hope that the reaction from the technology industry to SOPA in the last week might turn a few heads. Facebook are planning to double their employees in Dublin and they were opposed to the US legislation (they are having enough trouble with the data protection act here as it is) so any tech industry consultation these legislators have will hopefully result in some opposition.

The entertainment industry does not hold any promise for the economic future of Ireland compared to technology, and this should be obvious. It shouldn't come down to which industry is better than which though, there's a very sound engineering principle as well as a social contract that should take precedence.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2012 2:30am

People abroad could launch DoS attacks on many Irish blog and community sites by pasting content banned in Ireland but perfectly legal in their country which had more freedom of speech.

Unless the new laws had a safe harbour provision EVERY comment and attachment could have to be moderated before being visible.

In other news
sales of SUV's and Houses has dropped somewhat since 2006 too

44leto · 23-01-2012 2:35am

Daftendirekt wrote: »

It forces website owners to police whatever content users upload or link to.

So if I were to put a link to Megavideo here, Boards would be responsible, and the IP owners could seek a court order to force the ISP's to block it. (Something along those lines anyway.)

Think of the climate this would create for the tech industry in Ireland. Sites like YouTube simply can't monitor everything that's uploaded to it, not to mention Google. I don't see any reason to presume Email providers would be exempt, either. Wikipedia is a site that's completely dependent on users uploading content, and even though it actively tries to prevent any copyright infringement, any randomer linking to a dodgy site could leave it exposed.

No one would be crazy enough to try and build a new tech start-up knowing that they could be shut down at the whim of EMI.

If this all sounds completely bonkers, it's important to bear in mind that the people pushing for this don't necessarily know the first thing about the net or how it works.

They've got the content industry whispering in their ear that piracy is hurting them and something, anything has to be done to stop it. In reality, while piracy is hurting them to an extent, a lot of the damage is self inflicted - their ultimate goal is to protect their traditional revenue streams. At any cost. So rather than update their business model, they're taking the easier route of lobbying well-meaning but woefully misguided politicians, who probably don't even recognise the severity of what's being proposed. They probably do think that this will protect jobs and prevent piracy, while being completely oblivious to the damage it'll do.

I know it sounds horribly conspiracy theory-ish to say it, but this new trend of extremely draconian anti-piracy legislation really is about Internet censorship. The Internet has damaged the content industry's monopoly, but not through piracy. It's given consumers greater choice as to what to buy and where to buy from and for the first time content creators (artists, musicians, film-makers and the like) are able to reach their target markets directly and on their own terms, effectively cutting out the need for a middle-man.

So of course, EMI and co aren't happy with that.

People's problem with this kind of legislation isn't that it'll prevent them from getting free stuff (people are still more than happy to pay for music, they're just buying it in a different format) or that they're opposed to the idea of intellectual property. The problem is that this is legislation that's being passed for the sole purpose of keeping a group of lobbyists happy at the expense of Ireland, and quite possibly its economic recovery.

It's a classic example of big business having too much influence over our elected officials. People need to remind them who they're accountable to at the end of the day.

A great post and succinctly put. But the government is losing revenue as well, I can give you one absolute concrete fact, I am spending a hell of alot less money on media, I am illegally downloading it, or file sharing (whatever) I know I am not the only one doing this.

So to be frank piracy and people like me have to be stopped. That in the long run will cost very real jobs. But this law does sound very heavy handed and I don't think it will pass. It doesn't seem workable, a law will only work if it is enforcible, this will not be. Its like Ryan giggs trying to sue Twitter, twitter cannot be responsible for everything an anonymous member uploads or posts. The same happened with that taxi fare dodging "court case".

dillo2k10 · 23-01-2012 2:39am

I assume the legislation would only allow them to block websites that contain copy righted material.

So say they bring UPC to court and force them to ban youtube.com then a new website appears called youtube.ie which just the exact same. They would have to go through the process all over again (assuming UPC continued to fight them in court) would it continue to be worth their while?

I would hope that UPC would continue to fight it, and I think they would because they know that they will loose a lot of customers that are on the high packages who would drop down to the lower ones or move to another provider.

Would it not also be possible to use proxys to get around the block too?

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2012 2:57am

44leto wrote: »

A great post and succinctly put. But the government is losing revenue as well, I can give you one absolute concrete fact, I am spending a hell of alot less money on media, I am illegally downloading it, or file sharing (whatever) I know I am not the only one doing this.

Unless you are banking the money you claim not to have spent on media you are still spending it on something and chances are that the government get it's VAT anyway. But more likely you are spending the money on local goods and services so the government gets further cuts in wages etc , when otherwise you would be sending the money abroad to the rights holders.

So I'd say in most cases the government gets as much if not more money from downloaders.

Where the government looses out in tax take is when people legally import media from other EU member states, and small imports under the tax limit from abroad. Or download it on line from itunes.

generalmiaow · 23-01-2012 2:58am

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Would it not also be possible to use proxys to get around the block too?

That's exactly the point. There is literally NO WAY to completely block access to a website. Once you have an endpoint outside the country and an encrypted connection to it (this is not difficult at all, and in fact happens every time you use a credit card) a block means nothing. In countries such as China and Saudi Arabia where internet access is restricted, people continue using blocked sites as normal. It's lip service.

People bringing up the "piracy is wrong" argument in this thread are missing the point - this won't affect piracy in the slightest. Whatever the ethics of it, the entire entertainment industry as it exists now at death's door - some say, because of piracy, but it's not coming back because some judge can order a DNS block or even an IP block.

The problem is not just the matter of principle - free commerce of information over any medium - it's that it complicates the technology to the point where it can discourage investment and innovation. To implement something like a country wide block you have to do it at every exit node from Ireland which doesn't exist and is a monumental waste of time. With things like content distribution networks where you don't even know what country a server which has something on it is in at any time, which could even be seconds.Plenty of infringing content is distributed by the big CDNs that also carry mostly legit traffic.

It's like they are building a fence to keep out flies. That looks awful.

And that means discouraging jobs. If Sean Sherlock thinks he can raise enough money from the taxes on CDs, which won't even exist in a few years, to pay for the welfare of all those who will miss out on employment opportunities he is dead wrong. Forget Google and Facebook for a second - how do you think an Irish entrepreneur who has an idea for a great website would see this?

Sorry, entertainment industry, but I can live without Beyonce or The Kardashians or Die Hard 5 or whatever else. They are not worth the tiny chance of saving if it jeopardises the fastest growing industry in Ireland.

My job depends both on the internet and on the music industry. Piracy has an effect on my livelihood as well and attitudes to it will need to change, but that will come from Netflix and Steam and other distribution methods that emphasise convenience and a social aspect (as well as sharing, in a way that still pays for the content) and break from the old ways. There's tons of opportunities in there for Ireland to make creativity profitable again but they won't happen if policy makers ruin it for us.

44leto · 23-01-2012 3:08am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Unless you are banking the money you claim not to have spent on media you are still spending it on something and chances are that the government get it's VAT anyway. But more likely you are spending the money on local goods and services so the government gets further cuts in wages etc , when otherwise you would be sending the money abroad to the rights holders.

So I'd say in most cases the government gets as much if not more money from downloaders.

Where the government looses out in tax take is when people legally import media from other EU member states, and small imports under the tax limit from abroad. Or download it on line.

Really well I am self employed so could I use that excuse for not paying taxes "I am spending it on other things" or how about when a person buys smuggled cigarettes to avoid the duty.

Media has the effect of creating desire, we will always find money for it, but now it is all free.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2012 3:09am

Blocking downloads will probably cause people to buy more pirate DVD's.

Who actually thinks the freeloaders will pay full retail price if they can find any alternative ?

One of the main sources of pirate DVD's is criminals (in Ireland especially this includes paramilitaries). If you don't believe me look at the ads at the start of any DVD , and cast your mind back to DVD's being sold in one day markets down the country

In the past the Govt. used to pay a lot to provide Garda and Army escorts for cash transfers to prevent the paramilitaries getting money that way.

IMHO one of the unintended consequences of this legislation could possibly be an increase in funding to dissidents. If this were the case then the Govt. would have to spend to prevent this.

LighterGuy · 23-01-2012 3:15am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Blocking downloads will probably cause people to buy more pirate DVD's.

Who actually thinks the freeloaders will pay full retail price if they can find any alternative ?

Totally agree.
If major sites were shut down (open torrent trackers, etc) it would make the average joe internet user just buy black market dvds.

I personally think it was broadband that did away with the dvd black market. I know they are still around but nothing compared to before broadband. Downloading a 700mb rip was just to much on dial up.
But now that people have gotten used to downloading very good quality rips and if that was taken away ... someone would step in to provide

44leto · 23-01-2012 3:20am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Blocking downloads will probably cause people to buy more pirate DVD's.

Who actually thinks the freeloaders will pay full retail price if they can find any alternative ?

One of the main sources of pirate DVD's is criminals (in Ireland especially this includes paramilitaries). If you don't believe me look at the ads at the start of any DVD , and cast your mind back to DVD's being sold in one day markets down the country

In the past the Govt. used to pay a lot to provide Garda and Army escorts for cash transfers to prevent the paramilitaries getting money that way.

IMHO one of the unintended consequences of this legislation could possibly be an increase in funding to dissidents. If this were the case then the Govt. would have to spend to prevent this.

No rubbish, I only download the Blurays and I never bought one of those. I am now even downloading books.

I bought the latest Pinker on amazon "The better angels of our nature" I know the irony, it is a hardback with 800 pages, I didn't like the weight of it. So I decided to take the hit and download the ebook. But low and behold, I got a pirate version FREE, I also got a talking book version FREE, I even recognise this as ridicules and detrimental to the long term media development and industry.

Piracy will get worse they have to make a stand. But this is probably not the way to do it.

Daftendirekt · 23-01-2012 3:22am

44leto wrote: »

A great post and succinctly put. But the government is losing revenue as well, I can give you one absolute concrete fact, I am spending a hell of alot less money on media, I am illegally downloading it, or file sharing (whatever) I know I am not the only one doing this.

Okay, that's fair enough. I'm not opposed to the idea of protecting intellectual property, but there's a couple of points I'd like to mention.

The content industry likes to claim every download as a lost sale. So if you download a thousand MP3's that you could otherwise buy on Amazon or iTunes for, let's say, €1 each, then the record labels like to make out that you've stolen €1,000 worth of music from them (I believe they value every illegally downloaded MP3 higher than that in reality, but that's beside the point). I'll concede that if you would have otherwise bought the MP3's, then that could fairly be counted as a lost sale, but how much of your downloading is opportunistic?

If you make a copy of something (and I'd challenge the notion of copying as being the same as theft) that you would never have bought in the first place, you aren't depriving the IP owner of anything, material or monetary. Apply this logic across the board, to everybody who illegally downloads, and I think the number of declining sales being chalked up to piracy would take a pretty huge dent.

You've probably spotted the obvious problem with this: any legislation built on this same reasoning would be utterly unenforceable. There's just no way you could prove someone would or wouldn't have purchased something had they not been able to pirate it. So rather than err on the side of fairness, legislators are leaning towards excessively blunt legislation with (in my opinion at least) insanely harsh punishments for non-compliance.

I agree with you that IP needs to be protected, but do you really think prison sentences and million-dollar-plus fines are an appropriate penalty for breaking such arbitrary rules? Or that censorship laws that might shut down legitimate businesses (without necessarily making much of a dent in piracy) are an acceptable solution?

To me, it looks like a case of private profits taking precedence over justice.

So to be frank piracy and people like me have to be stopped. That in the long run will cost very real jobs. But this law does sound very heavy handed and I don't think it will pass. It doesn't seem workable, a law will only work if it is enforcible, this will not be. Its like Ryan giggs trying to sue Twitter, twitter cannot be responsible for everything an anonymous member uploads or posts. The same happened with that taxi fare dodging "court case".

It should be unenforceable, but like I said above, the danger is in its bluntness. If you have money, no regard for due process, access to elected politicians and an ethical code that was shaped by a world without the Internet, I think you could make a pretty good go of it.

PseudoFamous · 23-01-2012 3:26am

RobbingBandit wrote: »

It's time we face facts in this country we are the guinea pig for any and all new innovations like this in Europe for as long as we are in debt to the overlords. Greece, Spain or Italy would riot if anything like this was proposed for them, we will bitch and moan but accept it with ass cheeks spread while Germany and France accept Google, Facebook, Paypal and all others based here with open arms.

I care a lot more about censorship being imposed on a free media than paying for our own mistakes. I would never protest about the economy, because frankly, we got everything we deserved on that front. I would go out and protest, induce roadblocks, harrass politicians, the works, if censorship was imposed. This is one of the few things I actually would stand for, and I will guarantee you that I am not the only one who would.

If you wish to make sweeping generalizations about the integrity of this nation, go, go to your local pub, be with similarly small minded people. If you want to actually do something, bloody well prepare to do something.

As of now, I drafted an email to three local TDs and sent another to Sean Sherlock, and I'll be phoning Sherlock daily if I don't get a response to my email. What have you done? Moaned a bit? Grow up and do something.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2012 3:27am

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I assume the legislation would only allow them to block websites that contain copy righted material.

If my understanding is correct sites could be blocked even if they consistently remove copyright material in a timely manner. Perhaps they could be blocked even if accused of having such material, why wait on conclusive proof ?

Would it not also be possible to use proxys to get around the block too?

tor

LighterGuy · 23-01-2012 3:29am

I just strolled over to an open torrent site.
One dvd rip file has 14,000+ seeding and 5,000+ leeching :eek:

... 1 site. 19,000+ people sharing it. Not to mention the users who downloaded without sharing back. Not to mention the other sites. Wow. That is something.

Possible Irish SOPA Law? :/

Comments