Question on lenition

Mr.Nice Guy · 21-01-2012 05:06PM #1

I noticed that the word for zoology in the Irish dictionary was the feminine noun 'zó-eolaíocht'. I think I'm right in saying that in Irish a feminine noun beginning with a consonant is lenited so does that mean when we add in 'the' it becomes: 'an zhó-eolaíocht'? It looks quite odd to me and more Chinese than Irish so I have to check that one. :cool:

Also wondering about the word U-Turn in Irish which the dictionary tells me is 'U-chasadh'. Again when we add the word 'the' does this become an t-U-chasadh? Is that how you would write that word?

Just trying to wrap my head around these rules on leniting nouns.

deirdremf · 22-01-2012 01:25PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I noticed that the word for zoology in the Irish dictionary was the feminine noun 'zó-eolaíocht'. I think I'm right in saying that in Irish a feminine noun beginning with a consonant is lenited so does that mean when we add in 'the' it becomes: 'an zhó-eolaíocht'? It looks quite odd to me and more Chinese than Irish so I have to check that one. :cool:

Sounds like a dreadful makey-uppy word from An Coiste Téarmaíocht.
As you probably know, there is no Z sound in Irish, native speakers traditionally pronounce it S.
However, in written Irish, Z was traditionally transliterated ST, so we have words like STodiac for Zodiac and so on. This would seem to be Italina/German Z (pronounced TS) turned back to front.
But that said, I have never seen a Z with a séimhiú. I'd say leave it as it is.

Also wondering about the word U-Turn in Irish which the dictionary tells me is 'U-chasadh'. Again when we add the word 'the' does this become an t-U-chasadh? Is that how you would write that word?

Yeah, that would seem to be right.
Another makey-uppy word, I think.

Enkidu · 22-01-2012 01:25PM

Interesting question Mr. Nice Guy!

At least in my experience native speakers don't mutate borrowed words that contain non-Irish sounds, like z, basically because there is no "zh" sound.

However for something like U-chasadh you would have an t-U-chasadh. For example I've heard an t-ÚFO for the UFO.

Although in some dialects the eclipses of s was z. So, you had An sagart, but leis an zsagart in speech.

EDIT: deirdremf makes a good point that z never really occurs, you're basically just using an English word. For most words with z there is a natural Irish equivalent.

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