Occupy Galway Promoting Freeman Pseudo-law

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 01:03AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

No civilized court of law would permit a conviction of murder in those circumstances. Well, maybe Texas.

Accessory though...

c_man · 20-01-2012 01:17AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Can you, maybe, tell us what the goals of Occupy Galway are? You'd be the first occupier to do it. (not holding my breath)

Not going to happen. I wouldn't advise reading through the OG thread in the Galway forum but suffice to say that when challenged, posters are frequently told to "go down to the camp" and accused of being keyboard warriors.

With ideas so good that they don't stand up to any scrutiny in a written medium, well they're definitely onto something....

e.g.

Spacedog wrote: »

Of course they don't have the courage to say it to your faces, here on boards.ie, many people are cowardly and hide behind perceived anonymity

Lockstep · 20-01-2012 09:44AM

For what it's worth, I went down to the OG camp to speak to them directly (as they seem to want us to do) and found them to be very nice and well meaning but naive.

The young man I was speaking to was genuinely lovely: pleasant and eager to help but I was a bit taken aback by how simplistic his views were.
When I asked how we could make up the budget deficit, I was told we could print all the money we needed (when I brought up Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic, his response was that running the printing press would not mean hyperinflation as governments already run unbacked currency. He also claimed that the US has no gold reserves as Fort Knox has long since been sold off)

He was railing against the bosses screwing over the working man (he himself was unemployed) and seemed completely taken aback when I told him that I like my job and my employer (I'm a bartender). I was then told that soon technology would mean my job would be obsolete and I'd have a lot of free time to engage in volunteer work.

That said, I gotta give OG props for keeping Eyre Square safe. It can get very rough at night so having some people there is fairly handy.

20Cent · 20-01-2012 09:46AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

FreudianSlippers has a day job and CBF'd going to Galway to babysit the occupiers. Occupy harps on about transparency but refuses to engage it in apparently.

Also, can we get back on topic now? I'd like for the Occupy movement to stop derailing legitimate threads and getting them closed because they cannot answer any questions put to them.

What is the topic of this thread a facebook post?
Is that really up to standard?
The question on the nations lips when will the receipts for Occupy Galways tea kitty be published we must know!

Hello world · 20-01-2012 09:52AM

Lockstep wrote: »

For what it's worth, I went down to the OG camp to speak to them directly (as always seems to be advocated for any criticism) and found them to be very nice and well meaning but utterly naive.

The young man I was speaking to was genuinely lovely: pleasant and eager to help but I was a bit taken aback by how simplistic his views were.
When I asked how we could make up the budget deficit, I was told we could print all the money we needed (when I brought up Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic, his response was that running the printing press would not mean hyperinflation as governments already run unbacked currency. He also claimed that the US has no gold reserves as Fort Knox has long since been sold off)

He was railing against the bosses screwing over the working man (he himself was unemployed) and seemed completely taken aback when I told him that I like my job and my employer (I'm a bartender). I was then told that soon technology would mean my job would be obsolete and I'd have a lot of free time to engage in volunteer work.

That said, I gotta give OG props for keeping Eyre Square safe. It can get very rough at night so having some people there is fairly handy.

Please post this in the og thread it's priceless

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 10:14AM

20Cent wrote: »

What is the topic of this thread a facebook post?
Is that really up to standard?
The question on the nations lips when will the receipts for Occupy Galways tea kitty be published we must know!

If you have a problem with the thread, then report it.

As I have said before, this is the official Occupy Galway Facebook page; I presume you would have no problem with this thread if it were on their website (with they don't have).
You have zero answer to the spread of misinformation other than trying to slight it because it's on facebook... sure, attack the medium rather than the message.

Inclusion · 20-01-2012 11:23AM

c_man wrote: »

Not going to happen. I wouldn't advise reading through the OG thread in the Galway forum but suffice to say that when challenged, posters are frequently told to "go down to the camp" and accused of being keyboard warriors.

With ideas so good that they don't stand up to any scrutiny in a written medium, well they're definitely onto something....

e.g.

As Hippygran isn't addressing ANY of the questions posted on here for OG my suggestion that one of the self appointed leaders emerge from their hiding places from behind this poor woman (who resorts to emotive language instead of clear cut replies) is still being ignored.
1. Why are they promoting Freeman pseudo law re non-payment of the Household Charge?
2. Why promote online governance then refuse to post online their accounts and accuse people of being 'keyboard warriors' in response to uncomfortable questions ?
3. How can Ms Borg justify an 'application' letter for people who genuinely want to join in the protest, in a blatant attempt to exclude those who will not toe the line?
4. Why are they using censorship to block people from their fb page when comments or questions arise that they do not agree with or cannot answer in all honesty?
I can assure you this will go around in circles as they will 'stick their heads in the sand' (as they are so fond of describing people who dissent from their flawed thinking) and will continue to fail miserably and taint the spirit of the movement. I find this tragic as it could have been a marvellous opportunity for this country to rally the ordinary man in the street to rail against the system in a peaceful and united manner.
It is blatantly obvious to me OG have a hidden agenda.

Spacedog · 20-01-2012 11:31AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

FreudianSlippers has a day job...

Because I disagree with your political stance, I choose not to believe you, please take time from your day to scan your payslips and present them for my inspection and judgement. (see what I did there?)

Hello world · 20-01-2012 11:47AM

Inclusion wrote: »

As Hippygran isn't addressing ANY of the questions posted on here for OG my suggestion that one of the self appointed leaders emerge from their hiding places from behind this poor woman (who resorts to emotive language instead of clear cut replies) is still being ignored.
1. Why are they promoting Freeman pseudo law re non-payment of the Household Charge?
2. Why promote online governance then refuse to post online their accounts and accuse people of being 'keyboard warriors' in response to uncomfortable questions ?
3. How can Ms Borg justify an 'application' letter for people who genuinely want to join in the protest, in a blatant attempt to exclude those who will not toe the line?
4. Why are they using censorship to block people from their fb page when comments or questions arise that they do not agree with or cannot answer in all honesty?
I can assure you this will go around in circles as they will 'stick their heads in the sand' (as they are so fond of describing people who dissent from their flawed thinking) and will continue to fail miserably and taint the spirit of the movement. I find this tragic as it could have been a marvellous opportunity for this country to rally the ordinary man in the street to rail against the system in a peaceful and united manner.
It is blatantly obvious to me OG have a hidden agenda.

I asked her a few questions in the OG thread and all she did was stop posting there and start posting here for a few days then se started posting on the other thread again without addressing any of the questions

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 11:51AM

Spacedog wrote: »

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

FreudianSlippers has a day job...

Because I disagree with your political stance, I choose not to believe you, please take time from your day to scan your payslips and present them for my inspection and judgement. (see what I did there?)

I'm self employed; no pay slips. Plus I'm not a movement touting transparency and cooperation.

If OG is taking donations then they have a moral (according to the occupy movement's definition of morality) and perhaps legal responsibility to disclose how much they are taking in and how that money is being spent.

hippygran · 20-01-2012 02:20PM

Hello world wrote: »

I asked her a few questions in the OG thread and all she did was stop posting there and start posting here for a few days then se started posting on the other thread again without addressing any of the questions

I have tried to answer all questions that are directed at me, if I can. I have been met with sarcasm and contempt. I spend several days away from home and when I am not home I don't spend much time online. I don't follow boards constantly as some of you seem to do. I did not start posting on here for a few days, I only saw this thread yesterday!
If I didn't answer your questions it was either because I didn't see them or because they were posed in a manner that I did not consider deserved a reply.

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 02:24PM

hippygran wrote: »

I have tried to answer all questions that are directed at me, if I can. I have been met with sarcasm and contempt. I spend several days away from home and when I am not home I don't spend much time online. I don't follow boards constantly as some of you seem to do. I did not start posting on here for a few days, I only saw this thread yesterday!
If I didn't answer your questions it was either because I didn't see them or because they were posed in a manner that I did not consider deserved a reply.

Yet you avoid all of mine. Nice attempt at a slam on people who spend time on boards. :rolleyes:

Spacedog · 20-01-2012 04:36PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm self employed; no pay slips. Plus I'm not a movement touting transparency and cooperation.

yeah, in other-words you're on the dole. let's see your tax returns and your business bank statements. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You don't even have to scan them either. I'll happily come by and scan/upload them myself. If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about.

Inclusion · 20-01-2012 04:53PM

Spacedog wrote: »

yeah, in other-words you're on the dole. let's see your tax returns and your business bank statements. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You don't even have to scan them either. I'll happily come by and scan/upload them myself. If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about.

I think it was already explained to you public donations taken by OG are subject to scrutiny if you are accepting them on behalf of the 99% of which I am one (and I have also donated on three occasions which I now sincerely regret) and I now (again) respectfully request you publish the receipts for monies received.
It is plain commonsense if you put yourselves up there as a group protesting against lack of transparency and accountability in public bodies that the first thing you would do is keep records of where donations went.

What is the problem? It's not rocket science!

Inclusion · 20-01-2012 04:57PM

hippygran wrote: »

I have tried to answer all questions that are directed at me, if I can. I have been met with sarcasm and contempt. I spend several days away from home and when I am not home I don't spend much time online. I don't follow boards constantly as some of you seem to do. I did not start posting on here for a few days, I only saw this thread yesterday!
If I didn't answer your questions it was either because I didn't see them or because they were posed in a manner that I did not consider deserved a reply.

Would dearly love to know a manner that would deserve your consideration and I will amend my presentation of my still unanswered questions for you ..

hippygran · 20-01-2012 05:29PM

Inclusion wrote: »

As Hippygran isn't addressing ANY of the questions posted on here for OG my suggestion that one of the self appointed leaders emerge from their hiding places from behind this poor woman (who resorts to emotive language instead of clear cut replies) is still being ignored.
1. Why are they promoting Freeman pseudo law re non-payment of the Household Charge?
2. Why promote online governance then refuse to post online their accounts and accuse people of being 'keyboard warriors' in response to uncomfortable questions ?
3. How can Ms Borg justify an 'application' letter for people who genuinely want to join in the protest, in a blatant attempt to exclude those who will not toe the line?
4. Why are they using censorship to block people from their fb page when comments or questions arise that they do not agree with or cannot answer in all honesty?
I can assure you this will go around in circles as they will 'stick their heads in the sand' (as they are so fond of describing people who dissent from their flawed thinking) and will continue to fail miserably and taint the spirit of the movement. I find this tragic as it could have been a marvellous opportunity for this country to rally the ordinary man in the street to rail against the system in a peaceful and united manner.
It is blatantly obvious to me OG have a hidden agenda.

One minute people on these threads are saying that we have no agenda and don't know why we are there, next minute we have a hidden agenda. It is very well hidden if that is the case!

I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.
1. We have several admins on our facebook page and someone thought this was interesting enough to post, I don't think sharing a page really counts as promoting, but I do see your point. I don't know anything about this subject really, it is something I have heard mentioned a lot lately but I haven't looked into it. It sounds like an interesting idea, if only from an academic point of view, and a good subject for discussion but, in my opinion, it shouldn't be published under the group name. It is something I will raise for discussion when I am back at camp.

2. I don't know what you mean by 'promote online governance'..if we do, that's the first I've heard of it. Please explain. I have explained repeatedly why the books aren't online and I don't know under what authority you are ordering that they should be!

3. The 'application' letter is not an attempt to exclude anybody. It is not something that is insisted on in all cases, if someone has been around the camp, chatting to people, being involved etc, they become part of the camp naturally. However, we also have people that turn up at the camp, often late in the evening, saying they want to join the protest..sometimes half drunk, sometimes obviously just looking to wind people up or get somewhere to stay for the night. We have found that asking them for an explanation of why they want to be involved is a polite way of telling them no.

4. I am only aware of one person that was taken off the main facebook page, but there may be more. That was because she was being continually disruptive on everything that was posted, as far as I am aware. However, it would need an admin to fully explain that.

c_man · 20-01-2012 05:55PM

hippygran wrote: »

3. The 'application' letter is not an attempt to exclude anybody. It is not something that is insisted on in all cases, if someone has been around the camp, chatting to people, being involved etc, they become part of the camp naturally. However, we also have people that turn up at the camp, often late in the evening, saying they want to join the protest..sometimes half drunk, sometimes obviously just looking to wind people up or get somewhere to stay for the night. We have found that asking them for an explanation of why they want to be involved is a polite way of telling them no.

Do you really think it's acceptable for private citizens to deny access to a public space to other citizens?

That area is for all the people, not some self righteous minority grouping to take ownership of.

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 06:19PM

Spacedog wrote: »

yeah, in other-words you're on the dole.

Self employed people can't get the dole.. so there's that for a start.

let's see your tax returns and your business bank statements. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You don't even have to scan them either. I'll happily come by and scan/upload them myself. If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about.

Again, I'm not touting transparency and taking donations.

hippygran · 20-01-2012 07:00PM

c_man wrote: »

Do you really think it's acceptable for private citizens to deny access to a public space to other citizens?

That area is for all the people, not some self righteous minority grouping to take ownership of.

Yes, I do think it is acceptable. It is also acceptable for us to refuse anyone who is obviously drunk or who is being disruptive, especially as it gets later in the evening and people want to go to bed. We have had incidents where someone has come in and then been threatening or intimidating, usually when drunk. This could put someone in danger and it is up to the people who are around the camp to make a judgement call. I, personally, want to know that if I am alone in my tent the guys on night safety aren't letting someone into camp who might pose a danger to me. In an ideal world it wouldn't have to be that way, but it isn't an ideal world and it certainly isn't your decision to make. This isn't being self righteous, it is looking out for each other.

c_man · 20-01-2012 07:08PM

Well there's nothing much to say to that. You believe that it's okay for an extreme minority to take that which belongs to all the people, the 99% if you will. That's that.

Inclusion · 20-01-2012 10:17PM

It's because OG's agenda is not laid out clearly for anybody that one can only come to the conclusion that it is hidden..

and I have to ask....you bother to consult with each other at all????

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2012 10:18PM

Inclusion wrote: »

It's because OG's agenda is not laid out clearly for anybody that one can only come to the conclusion that it is hidden...

regarding SOPA :-

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WUD2EiK1_NU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

it would be nice if 'Anonymous' could actually do something to save the internet from this....

SPOA is irrelevant to this thread, but congress has withdrawn both bills today.

niall_h · 20-01-2012 10:30PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

SPOA is irrelevant to this thread, but congress has withdrawn both bills today.

Not withdrawn. Postponed.

20Cent · 20-01-2012 10:55PM

Interesting exchange between Vincent Brown with the troika at a press conference today. He asks why Ireland is being forced to pay Anglo bonds. Firstly they try to avoid the question and then can't answer it!

http://youtu.be/1Vo6VzQddi0

FreudianSlippers will be out with his tent soon I think!

Jonny7 · 20-01-2012 11:22PM

hippygran wrote: »

Yes, I do think it is acceptable. It is also acceptable for us to refuse anyone who is obviously drunk or who is being disruptive, especially as it gets later in the evening and people want to go to bed. We have had incidents where someone has come in and then been threatening or intimidating, usually when drunk. This could put someone in danger and it is up to the people who are around the camp to make a judgement call. I, personally, want to know that if I am alone in my tent the guys on night safety aren't letting someone into camp who might pose a danger to me. In an ideal world it wouldn't have to be that way, but it isn't an ideal world and it certainly isn't your decision to make. This isn't being self righteous, it is looking out for each other.

Ah we appreciate you answering questions, etc. These threads have been going on awhile now, mainly weighted heavily on the side of skeptics of the Occupy movement.

However I would like to know what are the stated grievances of the occupy (galway) movement and what are their proposed solutions or workarounds to these grievances/issues.

I have read through the minutes of nearly every Occupy movement, including Dame Street and I cannot find any answers to these simple yet crucial questions
http://www.occupydamestreet.org/category/minutes

In several hundred posts on the issue I have yet to see a clear answer (or any answer) on that.

Try not to take it as disrespect but many posters (myself included) either are or have become very jaded and cynical of the occupy movement because of this lack of clarity on the issue.

Godge · 21-01-2012 12:10AM

hippygran wrote: »

Yes, I do think it is acceptable. It is also acceptable for us to refuse anyone who is obviously drunk or who is being disruptive, especially as it gets later in the evening and people want to go to bed. We have had incidents where someone has come in and then been threatening or intimidating, usually when drunk. This could put someone in danger and it is up to the people who are around the camp to make a judgement call. I, personally, want to know that if I am alone in my tent the guys on night safety aren't letting someone into camp who might pose a danger to me. In an ideal world it wouldn't have to be that way, but it isn't an ideal world and it certainly isn't your decision to make. This isn't being self righteous, it is looking out for each other.

But that attitude is an exclusive one, one that is rejecting some of the 99%. If it is public space, it is public space and anyone has an entitlement to be there without OG or anyone else stopping them.

What if I had enough money to support myself without a job and decided that the Occupy movement was a bad idea. If I decided after a bottle of wine to go down to the middle of Occupy Galway and set up a protest against the Occupy movement, a Reject Occupy protest, so to speak, you would deny me that right to set up my tent because I haven't been vetted and had a few drinks. What was it at the end of Animal Farm about the difference between the pigs and the humans.........

Godge · 21-01-2012 12:16AM

Jonny7 wrote: »

Ah we appreciate you answering questions, etc. These threads have been going on awhile now, mainly weighted heavily on the side of skeptics of the Occupy movement.

However I would like to know what are the stated grievances of the occupy (galway) movement and what are their proposed solutions or workarounds to these grievances/issues.

I have read through the minutes of nearly every Occupy movement, including Dame Street and I cannot find any answers to these simple yet crucial questions
http://www.occupydamestreet.org/category/minutes

In several hundred posts on the issue I have yet to see a clear answer (or any answer) on that.

Try not to take it as disrespect but many posters (myself included) either are or have become very jaded and cynical of the occupy movement because of this lack of clarity on the issue.

Looks like the website hasn't been updated since December. I noticed the Dame St. camp seemed smaller during the week when I passed. Maybe the movement is running out of steam.

blahfckingblah · 21-01-2012 01:25AM

wow I deliberately ignore the Occupy Galway/Dame St. groups for about 2 months and absolutely nothing has changed with them. Still they are unable to outline what they wish to achieve in a clear articulate manner, still they speak in general terms and refuse to live by the basic principals of what they say and still they go on the offensive when criticised. somebody used the term self righteous a few posts up and I couldnt agree more. I put it to you hippygran or any other OG protester, what have you achieved via occupy Galway? when do the effects become visible?

I have talked to a protester in Galway face to face and I didnt get any answers, hopefully someone can change that

Inclusion · 21-01-2012 08:20AM

hippygran wrote: »

Yes, I do think it is acceptable. It is also acceptable for us to refuse anyone who is obviously drunk or who is being disruptive, especially as it gets later in the evening and people want to go to bed. We have had incidents where someone has come in and then been threatening or intimidating, usually when drunk. This could put someone in danger and it is up to the people who are around the camp to make a judgement call. I, personally, want to know that if I am alone in my tent the guys on night safety aren't letting someone into camp who might pose a danger to me. In an ideal world it wouldn't have to be that way, but it isn't an ideal world and it certainly isn't your decision to make. This isn't being self righteous, it is looking out for each other.

''if I am alone in my tent''
I knew eventually you would trip yourself up - we all know the tents are 99% empty - I happen to think you are alone there anytime you do stay- so straight from the horses mouth so to speak there's NOBODY IN THE TENTS , according to Ms Borg on the front page of the Advertiser , ''there isn't enough tents for all the people who want to stay here'' more BS from the camp, and regarding all the admins on your fb page - ask please if they think it fair to have deleted one dissenter's comments (she was asking for your accounts to be posted) and leave your own comments in place with that woman's name still visible in those comments and her own defence completely denied now to her?? I seriously recommend you read Animal Farm , what you are doing is wrong and has become so Orwellian it's worrying people like ye lot actually exist.
(Occupy Galway facebook posts dated 5th and 6th of January)

20Cent · 21-01-2012 10:14AM

Inclusion wrote: »

''if I am alone in my tent''
I knew eventually you would trip yourself up - we all know the tents are 99% empty - I happen to think you are alone there anytime you do stay- so straight from the horses mouth so to speak there's NOBODY IN THE TENTS , according to Ms Borg on the front page of the Advertiser , ''there isn't enough tents for all the people who want to stay here'' more BS from the camp, and regarding all the admins on your fb page - ask please if they think it fair to have deleted one dissenter's comments (she was asking for your accounts to be posted) and leave your own comments in place with that woman's name still visible in those comments and her own defence completely denied now to her?? I seriously recommend you read Animal Farm , what you are doing is wrong and has become so Orwellian it's worrying people like ye lot actually exist.
(Occupy Galway facebook posts dated 5th and 6th of January)

She clearly was saying alone in her tent not that she was alone in the camp. You really are clutching at straws. Herranguing a grandmother classy act you are. Doubt they ever thought anyone would want their accounts posted online! She clearly said it was handwritten, expecting them to type them up or scan them in for some randomer on the internet! If you are accusing them of stealing or scamming why don't you just say so?

Why does Occupy Galway annoy you so much/ its just people camping, the only inconvenience is if you want to use walk in that part of the park with the tents!

Do you know what is happening on Wednesday? Does that also make you angry?

Occupy Galway Promoting Freeman Pseudo-law

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