€423/hr for credit union "manager"

Trader1991 · 19-01-2012 01:16AM

krudler wrote: »

coal mining is a demanding job, fixing suspension bridges is a demanding job, managing a credit union? fcuk off.

exactly. I worked as a labourer in London over last summer between college years, got about 423 for a 50 hour week!..

seanmc1980 · 19-01-2012 10:11AM

Trader1991 wrote: »

exactly. I worked as a labourer in London over last summer between college years, got about 423 for a 50 hour week!..

yep that a fair wage for an un-skilled job like a labourer. Stick at the college and identify an area/sector where you can make money, its simple.

E&Y are the 3 biggest accountancy firm in the world. They can and will command high consultancy fees because of this.

seanmc1980 · 19-01-2012 10:16AM

krudler wrote: »

coal mining is a demanding job, fixing suspension bridges is a demanding job, managing a credit union? fcuk off.

coal mining is am un-skilled job, demanding but un-skilled. thats why wages are ****
People who fix suspension bridges get paid very well i would assume. highly skilled job.

can you see the correlation here, the more skilled the peoson the higher money the can command, its called economics

MagicSean · 19-01-2012 10:16AM

I'll do it for €100 an hour. My time spent on boards more than qualifies me.

Wicklowrider · 19-01-2012 11:03AM

seanmc1980 wrote: »

E&Y are the 3 biggest accountancy firm in the world. They can and will command high consultancy fees because of this.

3.2 million members OWN the CU. The "QUALIFIED", greed driven, pen pushing, bean counting, thieving lot who couldn't get a real degree nor a real job got the credit union into this mess. These people never served anything or anybody except them selves. They should be told to drop dead.

[QUOTE=seanmc1980;76601797
can you see the correlation here, the more skilled the peoson the higher money the can command, its called economics[/QUOTE]

No its not. Its greed.

How skilled is the fire fighter who will literally lay down their life so a stranger might live? How skilled is the rescue crew on the helicopter?How much do they get paid?
E&Y and their ilk only get these fees because their government cohorts will give them out of OUR money.

Its no wonder we are walked on with the weak kneed opinions like these.

You lot probably address the likes of this consultant as " Sir" instead of "Cur"

Zulu · 19-01-2012 11:19AM

You know that E&Y would have private customers as well right? And you know that the rates would be driven by deman right?

...in fact, take a step back. You know how economics works right - supply and demand, and all that?

So when theres a low supply (of say principle accountants with "x" experience) and a high demand (someone looking for, say, a principle accountant with "x" experience), he/she gets to name their price.
But when there's high supply (people looking for a good pensionable job, like the fire service) and low demand (few roles required) you don't get to name your price. Simples.

seanmc1980 · 19-01-2012 11:26AM

QUOTE=Wicklowrider;76602423]3.2 million members OWN the CU. The "QUALIFIED", greed driven, pen pushing, bean counting, thieving lot who couldn't get a real degree nor a real job got the credit union into this mess. These people never served anything or anybody except them selves. They should be told to drop dead.

[/QUOTE]

who are you talking about here? the Accountants or the firemen, teachers and butchers who make up the boards of a CU and who's total inadequacies and poor decisions have most CUs in the country in the mess they are in now?

Wicklowrider wrote: »

No its not. Its greed.

How skilled is the fire fighter who will literally lay down their life so a stranger might live? How skilled is the rescue crew on the helicopter?How much do they get paid?

well they get paid quiet well actually in ireland compared with the industry norms across the world. These are State/Civil Servent jobs. the incentive's for these jobs isn't money be secure employment and a large state pension at the end.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

E&Y and their ilk only get these fees because their government cohorts will give them out of OUR money.

again the vast majority of E&Ys fee would come from the private sector. Where the same fee would be charged per hour for a Director/Partners input. Why should they adjust their fee structure for state appointments, i

Its no wonder we are walked on with the weak kneed opinions like these.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

You lot probably address the likes of this consultant as " Sir" instead of "Cur"

the chip is getting bigger man, i usually address a consultant i deal with by their name

Zulu · 19-01-2012 11:30AM

Actually, as a consultant, I have it in my contract that I'm referred to as "his Excellency".

Wicklowrider · 19-01-2012 03:47PM

seanmc1980 wrote: »

the firemen, teachers and butchers who make up the boards of a CU and who's total inadequacies and poor decisions have most CUs in the country in the mess they are in now?d on with the weak kneed opinions like these.

You are remarkably ill informed.

The boards of the credit unions performed brilliantly for over 4 decades. They made their members a lot of money by taking sound decisions. All of this is proven fact by audited accounts. About 8 years ago the boards started to listen to Advisers from the banks and financial institutions. Either inept or corrupt, these advisers steered the Credit Unions into the trouble they are in.

Regarding your Firefighters's pensions comments, again you are ill informed.
Most Fire Service people leave long before they qualify for a pension. In fact most Fire Service in Ireland are part time retained and do not qualify for a pension. The Helicopter Rescue Service is a private enterprise so again you are ill informed.

Its not a chip on my shoulder, its plain and simple contempt.

E&Y abused the high court of my country by seeking to stop an investigation into their role in the Anglo Irish affair.

Ever hear of "Repo 500" ?
E & Y failed to either spot it (ineptitude?) or failed to report it ( corruption?) in Lehman Brothers collapse. That was back in 2008.

They either did not spot the trouble in Anglo or failed to report that.

Buffoon or criminal? Either way their standards aren't close to being high enough to manage the ordinary Irish person's finances.

msg11 · 19-01-2012 05:11PM

Here is an idea for the credit union, stop spending money stupid stuff, cut the salary of the top brass.

Paying out 500 euro an hour is going to rack up one hell of a bill, ironically it's adding to the problem they are trying to fix.

If my bank started, paying someone this amount of money, I would be down there tomorrow and be withdrawing my savings and going else where.

ScumLord · 19-01-2012 05:22PM

msg11 wrote: »

Here is an idea for the credit union, stop spending money stupid stuff, cut the salary of the top brass.

To be fair the CU are pretty good in this regard, they just got sucked into the hysteria like everyone else. Outside of those mistakes I think they would be fairly sound.

Anyone · 19-01-2012 05:23PM

msg11 wrote: »

Here is an idea for the credit union, stop spending money stupid stuff, cut the salary of the top brass.

Errr, the Credit Union didn't have a say in this, your idea should be sent to:

Mr James O'Brien,
Registry of Credit Unions,
Financial Regulator,
PO Box 559,
Dame Street,
Dublin 2.

seanmc1980 · 19-01-2012 05:43PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

You are remarkably ill informed.

The boards of the credit unions performed brilliantly for over 4 decades. They made their members a lot of money by taking sound decisions. All of this is proven fact by audited accounts. About 8 years ago the boards started to listen to Advisers from the banks and financial institutions. Either inept or corrupt, these advisers steered the Credit Unions into the trouble they are in.

Actually i'm quiet well informed on the CU position at present as i do consultancy work for about 12 of them. Yes the boards did start to take advice from external sources about 8 years ago. But it was their own inept decisions that put them in the position they are in at the moment. They got greedy, plain and simple. they lost their core focus, you would be surprised how many Deposits for houses they lent out with on recourse, security or saving history. its baffling to say the least. If they had stuck to their core competency they would not be in the mess they are in now. Fault lies solely with the CU mgt.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Regarding your Firefighters's pensions comments, again you are ill informed.
Most Fire Service people leave long before they qualify for a pension. In fact most Fire Service in Ireland are part time retained and do not qualify for a pension.
The Helicopter Rescue Service is a private enterprise so again you are ill informed.

So they are suplementing their income by doing fire firefighting. Sounds like they get paid plenty so. whats your issue, do you think they should get paid 100k on to of their already full time salary?

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Its not a chip on my shoulder, its plain and simple contempt.

E&Y abused the high court of my country by seeking to stop an investigation into their role in the Anglo Irish affair.

Ever hear of "Repo 500" ?
E & Y failed to either spot it (ineptitude?) or failed to report it ( corruption?) in Lehman Brothers collapse. That was back in 2008.

They either did not spot the trouble in Anglo or failed to report that.

Buffoon or criminal? Either way their standards aren't close to being high enough to manage the ordinary Irish person's finances.

We all know about E&Ys role in anglo and Lehmans (and its repo 105 by the way) But who do you think should be appointed a receiver/ liquidator/administrator of a company and what do you think the fee should be.
The crooks of the matter is E&Y were appointed to administrate Newbridge CU. they charge a fee for this which a paper broke down to make it more sensational. 423 an hour. crazy!! great headline but very misleading.

Ellis Dee · 19-01-2012 05:47PM

Next thing Varadkar will be telling us that running a government department is a very demanding job and therefore €400+ an hour is only reasonable.:rolleyes:

BTW, has anyone actually figured out how much an hour Varadkar is getting now?:):)

Wicklowrider · 19-01-2012 07:42PM

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Actually i'm quiet well informed on the CU position at present as i do consultancy work for about 12 of them.

Hardly accurate with figures are you? about 12?( is that 10 , less than 10?)
Easy claim to make over the internet so pardon me if I disregard....

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Yes the boards did start to take advice from external sources about 8 years ago. But it was their own inept decisions that put them in the position they are in at the moment. They got greedy, plain and simple. they lost their core focus, you would be surprised how many Deposits for houses they lent out with on recourse, security or saving history.

And what did their outside "Professional" advisers say to this through the last 8 years? Did they advise the boards to stop this practice? On the contrary they actively encouraged this course.It exactly mirrored the lending practice of the "Professionals" during that time. You know well banks were lending many times more than they should. 4 -5 times annual salary was common. Do not point a smug finger at amateur lenders when you are fully aware that the "Professionals" were doing the exact same.

seanmc1980 wrote: »

so they are suplementing their income by doing fire firefighting. Sounds like they get paid plenty so. whats your issue, do you think they should get paid 100k on to of their already full time salary?

Who was supplementing what salary? Source please?

You picked 100K out of thin air - didn't you? Do you regularly make up numbers? Through your previous posts you've been shown to make up "facts" to suit your position. Everytime you are called out on this you just make up a new set of "facts".You'll be set for a career with any of our "Professional" financial institutions so....

seanmc1980 wrote: »

We all know about E&Ys role in anglo and Lehmans

And yet you believe them fit for practice? Says it all really. Especially as you claim to be involved in the Financial profession.

seanmc1980 wrote: »

The crooks of the matter is E&Y were appointed to administrate Newbridge CU.

Nice freudian bit going on there.....

Zulu · 20-01-2012 10:47AM

Wicklowrider, I note you've failed to acknowledge my post vis economics; supply and demand.

I wonder why?

Wicklowrider · 20-01-2012 11:35AM

Zulu wrote: »

Wicklowrider, I note you've failed to acknowledge my post vis economics; supply and demand.

I wonder why?

Oversight, I apologise.

You'd honestly have us believe that there is such a shortage of skill and experience ( supply) in the Irish financial sector that we need a firm with the record of overseeing, failing to report, and mismanagement of two of the biggest financial meltdowns that led to our present financial position?
That for the privilege of having E & Y we should pay these fees?

That is your position as a Financial Sector Professional?

Really? there isn't a single responsible, qualified and experienced honest firm in Ireland that could be employed instead?

Look, accountants and firms like these only got to the position of being able to command these fees because no one ever questioned them.
Well guess what? People are now asking questions and on this thread there hasn't been anything close to an answer.

Zulu · 20-01-2012 12:08PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Oversight, I apologise.

No worries.

You'd honestly have us believe...

I wouldn't have you believe anything, the facts speak for themselves. E&Y have a rate, and it's being paid.
So unless you are suggesting that the Government are delibertly fixing prices to prop up this international orginisation, what are you raging against?
If you are suggesting the Gov are price fixing, have you any proof? Because you are suggesing a criminal offence is occuring; have you contacted the Guardai? If not, why not?

That is your position as a Financial Sector Professional?

Where did I state I was a "Financial Sector Professional"?

Really? there isn't a single responsible, qualified and experienced honest firm in Ireland that could be employed instead?

Clearly not, although, I conceed I do not have the exact job description or the terms of employment, so I don't know what exactly they were looking for. That said, I'm confident that they weren't looking for one single factor: "pay must equal €423/hr."

Look, accountants and firms like these only got to the position of being able to command these fees because no one ever questioned them.

Rubbish. Absolute horse manure. The only reason they command those rates is because no one ever questioned them! What utter, utter tosh.
So all I need to do to increase my rate is to stop people questioning me? Well I've been going at it arseways so: here was I educating myself, skilling up, gaining experience and all I needed to do was bamboozel people into not questioning me.

...Weirdly, my rate has been increasing my way.

Well guess what? People are now asking questions and on this thread there hasn't been anything close to an answer.

Asking all the right questions, and asking all the right people. :rolleyes: I'd say E&Y are shitting bricks. They'll probably have to pull out of Ireland. I wonder how that will impact their European operations? What with the Gov not price fixing etc..

MagicSean · 20-01-2012 12:15PM

I wonder how much that guy from KPMG gets for watching the lotto draws.

Zulu · 20-01-2012 12:32PM

Probably shitloads, lucky feicker.

Wicklowrider · 20-01-2012 02:13PM

Zulu wrote: »

So unless you are suggesting that the Government are delibertly fixing prices to prop up this international orginisation, what are you raging against?

There is quite a difference between rage and contempt. I've expressed contempt and clearly stated my reasons.

Zulu wrote: »

Where did I state I was a "Financial Sector Professional"?

Apologies for the insult if you are not.
I assumed when you said you were a consultant, in direct reference to one of my comments, that your reply was actually relevant.

Zulu wrote: »

Rubbish. Absolute horse manure. The only reason they command those rates is because no one ever questioned them! What utter, utter tosh.
So all I need to do to increase my rate is to stop people questioning me? Well I've been going at it arseways so: here was I educating myself, skilling up, gaining experience and all I needed to do was bamboozel people into not questioning me.

Thats a jumble of words that twists what I said. I'll try and bring it down to your lowest denominator. You go to someone seeking a service and they say they want x fee. You pay x fee without question and everything is well and good. If you question x fee and offer lower, one of 2 things happen. They'll either agree or they won't. If they do not then you go elsewhere. As you referenced earlier - its economics. In this case I'd expect my government to employ a company without the track record associated with E & Y. Honesty, Integrity, Ethics, Duty - do none of these apply to the financial sector or does greed trump all else?

Zulu wrote: »

Asking all the right questions, and asking all the right people. :rolleyes: I'd say E&Y are shitting bricks. They'll probably have to pull out of Ireland. I wonder how that will impact their European operations? What with the Gov not price fixing etc..

Whats that saying about sarcasm?

I doubt my opinion will affect anyone, least of all E & Y. But thanks for repeatedly proving my point - people are getting really sore just because ordinary everyday folk are asking questions...

At this point I've expressed my opinion as clearly as I can several times. Theres no point in my repeating myself any further.

Freddie59 · 20-01-2012 02:23PM

Zulu wrote: »

So unless you are suggesting that the Government are delibertly fixing prices to prop up this international orginisation, what are you raging against?

I would imagine, as I have pointed out already, that he is raging against not the rate, but the fact that someone was prepared to pay it without question.
Did the Government even haggle?

Zulu wrote: »

Rubbish. Absolute horse manure. The only reason they command those rates is because no one ever questioned them! What utter, utter tosh.

Again I ask - are these rates - and those like them - queried by Government and its Departments?

Is it actually a case of "we need you in there" - "OK that'll be fifteen grand a week" "that's grand then".

If it is then it is truly shocking. You keep paying. They'll keep charging. Surely there is someone in the DoF qualified to carry out such work on secondment?

Zulu · 20-01-2012 02:27PM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

I assumed when you said you were a consultant, in direct reference to one of my comments, that your reply was actually relevant.

It's not relavent? Does the economics of consultancy only apply to the financial sector?

I'll try and bring it down to your lowest denominator.

There's little need for the ad hominem attacks, it doesn't fool anyone & only highlights your flagging arguments.

In this case I'd expect my government to employ a company without the track record associated with E & Y.

Your assuming that exists, with the same experience, for cheaper, elsewhere. Assuming.

Either that, or you think the government is commiting a serious criminal offence. If it's the later, I'll ask again: have you reported the same to the Guards? If not, why not?

But thanks for repeatedly proving my point

What point did I repeatedly prove for you? Simply claiming something happened doesn't mean it did, you know!

At this point I've expressed my opinion as clearly as I can several times. Theres no point in my repeating myself any further.

Indeed, your nonsense isn't getting any more valid.

Zulu · 20-01-2012 02:34PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Again I ask - are these rates - and those like them - queried by Government and its Departments?

As far as I know; in general - the standard process is that the government must put it out to tender. Companies submit applications to the tender. A list of "prefered suppliers" is drafted (based on various factors, with massive weighting on cost), and one is offered the tender.

So, as example in this case, say accenture, E&Y, deloitte, and 4 other smaller firms would have applied for the tender. E&Y would have made the "preferred supplier" list, and ultimatly won the tender.

That said, this case may have been different. I'm just speaking in general terms for government procurment.

Freddie59 · 20-01-2012 02:37PM

Zulu wrote: »

As far as I know; in general - the standard process is that the government must put it out to tender. Companies submit applications to the tender. A list of "prefered suppliers" is drafted (based on various factors, with massive weighting on cost), and one is offered the tender.

So, as example in this case, say accenture, E&Y, deloitte, and 4 other smaller firms would have applied for the tender. E&Y would have made the "preferred supplier" list, and ultimatly won the tender.

That said, this case may have been different. I'm just speaking in general terms for government procurment.

In all fairness, someone should then have sent back a letter telling then to fcuk off, and then seconded someone from the DoF to do the job. No wonder this country is going down the pan. I wouldn't say there was a tender process here, as the guy appears to have been parachuted in. Or am I wrong?

Zulu · 20-01-2012 02:49PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

In all fairness, someone should then have sent back a letter telling then to fcuk off, and then seconded someone from the DoF to do the job.

Well, cost aside DoF haven't the best reputation or the best experience to be fair. Then there's the unions to negotiate!

I wouldn't say there was a tender process here, as the guy appears to have been parachuted in. Or am I wrong?

To be honest, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a tender process DoF have a tight reign on money these days.

20-01-2012 03:08PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

In all fairness, someone should then have sent back a letter telling then to fcuk off, and then seconded someone from the DoF to do the job. No wonder this country is going down the pan. I wouldn't say there was a tender process here, as the guy appears to have been parachuted in. Or am I wrong?

Did you ever consider that someone from the department of finance wouldn't have the expertise to do the job. Consultancy is huge business in many different sectors be it Financial, IT etc. Its big business because there is a demand for the expertise brought in by the consultants. If any old person could do it do you really think consulting would be such a big business.

I still cant understand why people cant accept that highly qualified people, highly experienced in what they are brought in to do dont deserve to be highly paid for it. Sure where is the incentive for someone to go out and put in the effort in education, gaining relevant experience etc etc etc when they are not going to be rewarded for it at the end of the month.

Also where is the incentive for consulting firms to operate who employ large numbers of people if there services don't command a rate which will make the business lucrative enough to keep it operating or set it up in the first place.

Wicklowrider · 20-01-2012 04:22PM

Zulu wrote: »

There's little need for the ad hominem attacks, it doesn't fool anyone & only highlights your flagging arguments.

Strawman.
But an improvement ( though highly hypocritical) from the man who brought his own argument down to " ****ting bricks", "horse manure" and "arse ways" See where the lowest denominator jibe came from?

Zulu wrote: »

Your assuming that exists, with the same experience, for cheaper, elsewhere. Assuming.

it isn't a reasonable assumption to believe there is an honest accountancy practice on this island? Isn't it reasonable to believe the government should have sought out such an honest practice? if no such practice exists is it OK for the government to just accept that?
And what experience? Anglo? Leahman bros?

Zulu wrote: »

Either that, or you think the government is commiting a serious criminal offence. If it's the later, I'll ask again: have you reported the same to the Guards? If not, why not?

I don't think anything other than what I have repeated in clear English throughout this thread.

Zulu wrote: »

What point did I repeatedly prove for you?

If you are too lazy to read it, Im not typing it again.

Zulu wrote: »

Indeed, your nonsense isn't getting any more valid.

Nonsense?
I don't trust a company that oversaw (kind description) Lehman Bros and Anglo and that is your definition of nonsense?

Anyone · 20-01-2012 04:27PM

It was the Financial Regulator who appointed this person and agreed to pay him €423 per hour. Not the Government, not the Dept of Finance. I think that point should be clarified.

The Financial Regulator is a seperate independent organisation from any Government body.

kingtut · 20-01-2012 04:53PM

wendell borton wrote: »

WTF a lot of people hardly make that in a week.

I wouldn't get out of bed if I was only getting €423 a week :eek:

€423/hr for credit union "manager"

Comments