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Conditions in limerick prison

1356

Comments

  • #62
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm talking about the empirical studies which show that some forms of rehabiliation in prisons reduces the incidence of prisoners resorting to crime once released. There are ample studies which back this up. If you're really interested in the topic, do a google search.

    I'm not stating that prisons should be places of luxury. Indeed, I wrote that they should be places of punishment. But refusing to even attempt to rehabilitate people when we have the chance is idiotic. Why wouldn't we want to reduce crime rates?

    look I get what you are saying, but if someone murders someone or lots, they can die really, Im talking about the scum whose idea of fun is killing people to keep gangs going. THOSE kinds of people are beyond rehabilitation, and just need putting down frankly. Dont let 'love/hate' series sway a romantic view on these people can change, they cant and wont, the best bet is death penalty for them.


  • #63
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    To be honest rehab is less expensive and it has lower re-offending rates.


    Disclaimer:Cannot backup above statement. Use Google. Educate yourself.


  • #64
    Fozzydog3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Fozzydog3


    Eh here's an idea . Make them clean up after themselves ???


  • #65
    mercenary2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭mercenary2


    if they rape cut it off if they kill give em the chair save a lot on tax payers money and then maybe they could do up a few cells for ppl that dont pay a tv licence that by the way you have to pay by lay other wise jerry ryan could not of afforded to overdose..

    what is the tv licence ment to fund ......DRUGS..... for rte to unwind?,when ppl that have to pay it by law and cant afford bread..isnt it them beaming radio waves through us ,so why should we pay them?

    a little of topic in the end there.......


  • #66
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    12 hour days on chain gangs all year round and those scum wouldn't be so fast to reoffend. Basically, work them almost to death and they'd have gone somewhat towards paying for their crimes.


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  • #67
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Guill wrote: »
    This is where i struggle, if they are so depressing etc., why would someone consider becoming a life long criminal? Only to increase the chance of ending back in there?

    I say leave the prisons as they are, show people that these are horrible places but make sure that there is proper rehab available, which the article does not mention, and when the criminals get pout a proper system of monitoring, rehab and integration back into society is needed.


    There are lots of reasons why someone ends up in prison, disadvantaged areas need work seeing as the majority of prisons population comes from these areas, quite interesting today that they are cutting teachers in Darnedale after they have had their most highest rating of literacy ever, it will revert back quick enough now the support has been abandoned, quite shameful really Ireland has too much of a three or four tier class system.


  • #68
    Crazy Horse 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    Guill wrote: »
    ^^^WTF???


    If people act like animals, threat them like animals.

    People are in the prision for not being able to afford paying TV licence fees and other such sh it. Should they be treated like animals?


  • #69
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    billybudd wrote: »
    Unless you have spent time in prison you would have no idea how horrible it is and how depressing of a place it is and how it has a massive effect on your mental ability, for sure tell them to rot inside as thats the punishment for doing crime but all it does is create life time criminals, basic hygnenic cells with basic infrastructure and a decent rehab facility should be the norm, its not and its why jails are usually 80% infested with drugs.

    Haven't spent any time in prison because I wouldn't do anything to justify it.

    Not sure what 'mental ability" existed existed before going in there, but if it were put to good use then maybe it could have come to the conclusion that crime - causing stress and depression and worse to the victim - isn't the way to go.

    If someone's "mental ability" can't come to that conclusion on it's own then prison isn't going to have much left to deteriorate.


  • #70
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Haven't spent any time in prison because I wouldn't do anything to justify it.

    Not sure what 'mental ability" existed existed before going in there, but if it were put to good use then maybe it could have come to the conclusion that crime - causing stress and depression and worse to the victim - isn't the way to go.

    If someone's "mental ability" can't come to that conclusion on it's own then prison isn't going to have much left to deteriorate.


    I am not defending criminals first of all, but it would be stupid and blind to ignore reasons why criminals become criminals and why they reoffend, with out social change then innocent people will end up being murdered, maimed and everything else.

    or we could just throw them in prison living like animals and hope for the best, you do know the central mental hospital will not take prisoners anymore so you have mentally unfit people being housed with petty criminals, fine dodgers etc etc etc.


  • #71
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Einhard wrote: »
    Alternatively: If you treat people like animals, don't be surprised if they act like animals.

    wasnt it acting like animals that got a lot of them put there to begin with?


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  • #72
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    billybudd wrote: »
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Haven't spent any time in prison because I wouldn't do anything to justify it.

    Not sure what 'mental ability" existed existed before going in there, but if it were put to good use then maybe it could have come to the conclusion that crime - causing stress and depression and worse to the victim - isn't the way to go.

    If someone's "mental ability" can't come to that conclusion on it's own then prison isn't going to have much left to deteriorate.


    I am not defending criminals first of all, but it would be stupid and blind to ignore reasons why criminals become criminals and why they reoffend, with out social change then innocent people will end up being murdered, maimed and everything else.

    or we could just throw them in prison living like animals and hope for the best, you do know the central mental hospital will not take prisoners anymore so you have mentally unfit people being housed with petty criminals, fine dodgers etc etc etc.

    That's making the assumption that there's a "reason".......for every thug in prison with whose dad died or who had "no facilities" or who was poor who was bullied or who was lonely or who was bored (or whatever other bull**** sob-story excuse the likes of John Devane is reported in the paper as using in court) there are 10 decent people with the EXACT SAME STORIES who don't choose to be thugs.


  • #73
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    krudler wrote: »
    wasnt it acting like animals that got a lot of them put there to begin with?

    Not necessarily. People get imprisoned for non-payment of fines, selling recreational drugs, fraud etc... none of which constitute acting like animals.

    Not everyone in prisoner is a rampaging, violent scumbag - but regardless of who they are or what they did, they all get banged up together in the same prisons in conditions that are disgraceful.

    If people aren't treated with any dignity, there is little hope of rehabilitating them. Prison isn't and shouldn't be about retribution. If it were, we might as well bring back public flogging & the guillotine.


  • #74
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »
    People are in the prision for not being able to afford paying TV licence fees and other such sh it. Should they be treated like animals?


    Unfortunatly, if you break the law you break the law. If you can't afford a TV licence, A)Dont get a TV B)how the **** could you afford a Tv? Tv is a releatively new invention it is not a neccesity for a household to survive.


  • #75
    Fear Uladh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭Fear Uladh


    The_Thing wrote: »
    12 hour days on chain gangs all year round and those scum wouldn't be so fast to reoffend. Basically, work them almost to death and they'd have gone somewhat towards paying for their crimes.

    Yes because that works brilliantly in America.


  • #76
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    Fear Uladh wrote: »
    Yes because that works brilliantly in America.


    Works?

    Source?


  • #77
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That's making the assumption that there's a "reason".......for every thug in prison with whose dad died or who had "no facilities" or who was poor who was bullied or who was lonely or who was bored (or whatever other bull**** sob-story excuse the likes of John Devane is reported in the paper as using in court) there are 10 decent people with the EXACT SAME STORIES who don't choose to be thugs.

    And so what? so we ignore it? we ignore social problems? we ignore whats wrong with parts of society and just have the attitude ''throw them into a ****hole for a few years and that will show them''? it doesnt and they just become worse.


  • #78
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Guill wrote: »
    Works?

    Source?

    I think there was a tiny splash of sarcasm in there.


  • #79
    Benicetomonty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭Benicetomonty


    My sympathy tends to wane with every conviction tbh. Rehab is a great idea and one of the great achievments of the last century. But its not for everyone. People like Larry Murphy and his ilk can rot in hell for all I care, and an earthly equivilent would be perfectly satisfactory until then.


  • #80
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Guill wrote: »
    Unfortunatly, if you break the law you break the law. If you can't afford a TV licence, A)Dont get a TV B)how the **** could you afford a Tv? Tv is a releatively new invention it is not a neccesity for a household to survive.

    That's not really the point at all. If you break a law such as non-payment of a fine, it's hardly reason enough to be locked up in a prison that should have been shut down years ago.


  • #81
    Fear Uladh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭Fear Uladh


    Guill wrote: »

    Source?

    Here


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  • #82
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Benicetomonty wrote: »
    My sympathy tends to wane with every conviction tbh. Rehab is a great idea and one of the great achievments of the last century. But its not for everyone. People like Larry Murphy and his ilk can rot in hell for all I care, and an earthly equivilent would be perfectly satisfactory until then.


    I agree. some people will always be evil and there is no hope, but for alot there has to be hope and there has to be resources.


  • #83
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Judge Reilly also found windows in every cell in Divisions A and B broken and was told the prisoners break them to let the air in.
    Sounds like they broke the windows to have a smoke out of them, and then complained that rain came in. Do they get punished for breaking the windows?


  • #84
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Not necessarily. People get imprisoned for non-payment of fines, selling recreational drugs, fraud etc... none of which constitute acting like animals.

    Not everyone in prisoner is a rampaging, violent scumbag - but regardless of who they are or what they did, they all get banged up together in the same prisons in conditions that are disgraceful.

    If people aren't treated with any dignity, there is little hope of rehabilitating them. Prison isn't and shouldn't be about retribution. If it were, we might as well bring back public flogging & the guillotine.

    alright leaving out minor stuff like fines, contempt of court etc, basically anything that didnt result in someone being hurt or robbed or murdered and is some small sentence fair enough, but I live in Limerick, grew up in St Mary's Park and would have known some of the scumbags you read about in the papers any time violent crimes or drugs are reported, they're the animals, and were even as kids and teenagers.


  • #85
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Just because people disagree with prisons being complete holes doesn't mean they have sympathy for hardened criminals or think prisoners should have games consoles, plasma-screen TVs, luxury beds etc, as if that's the only alternative. FFS, fail of an argument.


  • #86
    Iang87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Iang87


    I understand the rehabilitation, peoples ability to change and all the rest of that stuff however if you dont change in that environment you never will.

    You should be so shocked when you're there that you'll do all in your power to never go back once you get out. very few people in jail for nothing at the end of the day and its not supposed to be fun and games which is what some people lead us to believe


  • #87
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Dudess wrote: »
    Just because people disagree with prisons being complete holes doesn't mean they have sympathy for hardened criminals or think prisoners should have games consoles, plasma-screen TVs, luxury beds etc, as if that's the only alternative. FFS, fail of an argument.


    Thanks for clearing everything up for us


  • #88
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    krudler wrote: »
    alright leaving out minor stuff like fines, contempt of court etc, basically anything that didnt result in someone being hurt or robbed or murdered and is some small sentence fair enough, but I live in Limerick, grew up in St Mary's Park and would have known some of the scumbags you read about in the papers any time violent crimes or drugs are reported, they're the animals, and were even as kids and teenagers.

    Regardless of the crime, prisoners should still be afforded basic human rights & dignity.

    Some people deserve to be locked away from society - some should probably never be released, but if we treat our prisoners like "scum" then we really are no better than them.

    Prison itself should be the punishment - the sentence of deprivation of liberty in itself should be the core punitive sanction, but not the conditions or the treatment of the prisoners while they are sanctioned.


  • #89
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Dudess wrote: »
    Just because people disagree with prisons being complete holes doesn't mean they have sympathy for hardened criminals or think prisoners should have games consoles, plasma-screen TVs, luxury beds etc, as if that's the only alternative. FFS, fail of an argument.


    Thanks for clearing everything up for us
    Not once have you backed up your position, instead you've just thrown out digs - fail of a debater.


  • #90
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    I'v been in Limerick Prison myself twice, Once for an unpaid fine and the second and last time I spent ten months there but this was ten years ago and a lot in the prison culture seems to have changed for the worst. I was on the D-wing which was new at the time and had all basic facilities and was kept clean and regularly painted by the prisoners themselves.
    The A and B wings though are absolute kips. I used to work in the day there in a fabric shop on D-Wing which basically is where kitchen uniforms are produced and I attended school there doing History and Irish.
    I think the overcrowding is having a serious effect on maintaining discipline and cleanliness inside and there is really no hope of any rehabilitation if the prison staff and services are constantly under pressure.


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  • #91
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Dudess wrote: »
    Not once have you backed up your position, instead you've just thrown out digs - fail of a debater.


    Its not a position, its my opinion. Looking for a debate in AH is asking a bit much, dont you think. I could do what you do and just regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over again in every thread you post in, but i wont as i havent the same amount of time on my hands as you ;)


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