Gyms and Women only sections. Sexism or not?

kylith · 16-01-2012 02:50PM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Surely the answer is to remove some men instead of ALL women?

That's tricky though. Do you remove particular men because women say that they're looking at them funny? What constitutes leering?

I do agree that if there's a private women's area there should be a corresponding men's area.

HellFireClub · 16-01-2012 03:04PM

You can be fúcking sure if there was a men's only area it would be deemed illegal and would be on the RTE news.

pickarooney · 16-01-2012 03:05PM

biko wrote: »

LOL

http://life.bitchbuzz.com/rules-for-going-to-the-gym-everyone-should.html

It's not sexist if you make a sweeping generalisation, add a parenthetical "of course not all X are Y" and then continue on with the initial stereotype.

saa · 16-01-2012 03:47PM

Doesn't bother me, as long as I can gain access to an affordable gym,
If there was a mens only gym I doubt I'd want to go there anyway..

MagicSean · 16-01-2012 04:51PM

smallBiscuit wrote: »

Is it sexist? Depends are women allowed to use the men's section? If so then yes it is.

First off the point made "Women feel uncomfortable being ogled at", I'm a bloke, but very conscious of stares (real or imagined) in a gym. Does that mean I should get my own private section?
Using the weights after somebody, male or female, I feel very conscious of the fact that they were lifting, say 60lb, and i have to reset to about 10lb.

Second, Women ogle men A quick google shows according to a survey, women ogle men half as much as men ogle women, but they do ogle, so ....

Third what about gays and lesbians, they will ogle their own sex, so that means not only are men not allowed in the women's section, neither are lesbians. Lets see the gay rights groups reaction to that!

OP, go into the women's section, when you kicked out sue for discrimination

Ladies, I'm sorry, I believe very strongly, not in women's rights, but in equality. We are all equal, regardless or sex or race or creed.

Can't really put it better.

Op i think you said your college fees pay for this membership. I would be objecting strongly to that. David Norris might back your cause.

later12 · 17-01-2012 07:22AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, but the point is that women complain about this kind of thing if it happens in reverse, IE that golf club case a few years ago - that's why it's hypocritical.

It would only be hypocritical if the same women were opposed to Portmarnock Golf Club's policy as who defend female only gyms (or perhaps sex segregation in gyms).

But quite possibly they're different women.

In the exact same way, can we say that the men opposed to sex segregation in gyms were opposed to Portmarnock's male only policy a few years ago?

I don't think we can be confident of that, no.

mikemac1 · 17-01-2012 07:45AM

Batsy wrote: »

Maybe in Ireland, but in Britain men-only gyms could never exist. As soon as one is set up they'd be forced to close down again due to being "sexist."

In Britain even the Boy Scouts cannot be exclusively male now. The Boy Scouts now have to admit girls because apparently it's "sexist" for the BOY Scouts to have just boys in it.

Of course, boys are not allowed to join the Girl Guides, though.

That's not new and not exclusive to the UK

When I was in the Scouts [I know, I know] nearly two decades ago there were girl members.

It was known as the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland but had girl members.

And before anyone hones in on Catholic, I can't remember anything religious about it. That's the name of the organization.
Probably a branch in your town

Babybuff · 17-01-2012 07:51AM

used to working out in unisex gyms/sports arenas and generally prefer it that way, actually the thought of being in a womans only gym conjurs up images of women doing particularly womanly excercises ..like lots of aerobic workouts and leg warmers and I wouldn't be able to cut it.
BUT..
I don't think it's sexist in the terms of demeaning men by exclusion, the intention is not to devalue men but to give women a more comfortable place to workout.

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious. It would be a little like some peoples opposition to unisex changing rooms, they just would feel more comfortable if they were less exposed. If men decided they wanted a same sex gym only for the same reason I wouldn't oppose it but as it stands I know of at least one gym that is unspokenly for men only. I mean I could go there but would be let know quick enough that I wasn't welcome. (specifically for weight training) I know this because my brother is a member and laughed when I asked if I could join.

reallyrose · 17-01-2012 08:06AM

I don't agree with women's only gyms. I'm not so terrified of men looking at me that I feel the need to avoid a gym. I mean, if I was worried about being ogled when I'm red in the face, sweaty and wishing I was dead in the gym, how should I feel when I'm out and about, looking presentable?

To be honest, I left my last gym because a little group of three women made it their business to make me feel bad about myself. A woman only gym wouldn't protect me from that!

The only advantage of a women's section of a gym that I can see is that such a section could have lighter weights. The heavier weights could be elsewhere so that the body-builders (who are probably mostly men?) could get their grunt on without sweating on people who just want to do a few curls!

Babybuff · 17-01-2012 08:22AM

reallyrose wrote: »

people who just want to do a few curls!

pass me the shiny pink 1lb dumbells I need to work my guns

later12 · 17-01-2012 08:43AM

Babybuff wrote: »

I don't think it's sexist in the terms of demeaning men by exclusion, the intention is not to devalue men but to give women a more comfortable place to workout.

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

CiaranC · 17-01-2012 08:54AM

later10 wrote: »

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

Only if they look at other people. Maybe there should be chaperones in these gyms so the poor Irish women dont have people looking at them. Sure they dont like other women looking at them in the female changing rooms either, according to the last thread on here. Maybe the burka is the answer?

Babybuff · 17-01-2012 08:56AM

later10 wrote: »

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

no, but then unless they are wearing a neon sign most other women wouldn't be aware that there are lesbians present. Don't get me wrong later, I think it's only fair if men are permitted to have their own space too, I just don't think it's intentionally an act of ill will toward men..for being men, more a case of women just being fussy. (fussy may not be the best term there but if they are willing to pay for comfort that they get from an all female group then that should be ok too)

Scanlas The 2nd · 17-01-2012 09:11AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

People are far too easy to play the sexism card these days. If there's a women only section it's because there's a demand for it & it makes good business sense to provide it.

There's nothing sexist about it as I'm sure that if men were looking for a men only section, then gyms would also start providing them.

So you'd have no problem with a whites only part of the gym if it made business sense.

later12 · 17-01-2012 09:14AM

I'm just playing devil's advocate a little I guess Babybuff. I don't have a problem with women having their own gym (although the idea of sex segregation in the workout areas is far less palatable). But while it doesn't affect or bother me, surely it doesn't stand up to any logical scrutiny.

I'm a guy and even I sometimes feel a little intimidated in the weights section. I'm fairly average and there are some huge guys at my gym. I hate when I'm there lifting my puny weights and some enormous Goku is waiting me to walk away so he can do a real man's workout (or at least that's what my paranoia tells me).

Do I sometimes feel self conscious? Yes. Do I prefer working out around guys my own size. Definitely. Does that mean I,and the other lads my size should be allocated our own weights divisions? I don't think that's very practical, no.

metamorphosis · 17-01-2012 09:14AM

It's a business idea that works given there's demand for it.

It's not sexist.

Far more important things to care orgive a ****e about than a womens only section of the gym imho

later12 · 17-01-2012 09:23AM

metamorphosis wrote: »

It's a business idea that works given there's demand for it.

It's not sexist.

Are these two comments supposed to be related?

If I write sexist, chauvinist, degrading books about the role of women, is the magnitude of their sexist content determined by their sales demand? I don't think so.

If you agree, I'm not sure what the relevance of your first comment is in the above quote.

Far more important things to care orgive a ****e about than a womens only section of the gym imho

Then don't bother posting on it

Babybuff · 17-01-2012 09:27AM

later10 wrote: »

I'm just playing devil's advocate a little I guess Buffybot.

don't think buffybot would be too happy if she thought there were two of us

As for performance, I can relate and generally it's easier for me working weights with men as they don't feel threatened by me and I don't feel I need to compete (all though sometimes I do try to impress them with my super human strength and ability to easily lift 1/4 what they would do on a bad day and with a head cold) When I'm surrounded by women I'm more concerned with how much they are lifting and how we compare, and mostly I didn't get close but then that was enough to motivate me to get stronger.

I've also had a couple of different trainers, 3 women and one man, I used to hope the man was there because I knew he would make sure I worked my arse off.

Solair · 17-01-2012 09:37AM

It's not just men who can be total perves at gyms. I was working out while two middle aged women, at least 30 years my senior, were discussing me loudly.
It's not flattering, it's bloody embarrassing.

To be perfectly honest, if you can't use a gym without perving, you might want to consider getting a girlfriend / boyfriend and a life! It's not the time nor the place!!

starbelgrade · 17-01-2012 10:25AM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So you'd have no problem with a whites only part of the gym if it made business sense.

That's a good question & does raise a lot of interesting angles on discrimination - be it on for reasons of positive or negative purposes.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it as the same principal still applies, but I wouldn't see it going down to well in the outside world!

later12 · 17-01-2012 10:28AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it

Interesting...
What about a whites only night club?

AeoNGriM · 17-01-2012 10:32AM

Babybuff wrote: »

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious

(I must preface this by saying that I'm not directing this at anyone, especially not babybuff whose post I quoted. In fact, this is just a bunch of outraged rhetoric and should not be taken seriously. Especially not by sensitive women

)

Maybe these women should workout at home then, with the curtains drawn and black plastic bags over their faces because no-one has any sort of expectation of privacy in a public area.

It would make me feel very uncomfortable working out in a gym where women have their own little private workout area, protected from the horde of testosterone oozing sex offenders hoping to see a pair of boobies bounce up and down under tight lycra, tarring ALL men with the dirty pervert brush as it does.

It would make me feel guilty, like I had done something wrong, or I was inherently and disgustingly dirty and therefore had to be kept away from the opposite sex. It would make me feel like I should be ashamed of my gender.

Should we have Women Only lanes on footpaths? Or Women Only footpaths? Maybe we could segregate the sexes entirely so that women never, ever have to put up with a man looking at her and, God forbid, find her slightly attractive?

Or maybe you guys could just stop being such monumentally entitled bitches and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

starbelgrade · 17-01-2012 10:37AM

later10 wrote: »

Interesting...
What about a whites only night club?

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with it personally - as long as other races / colours have the right to do so too.

I think that people who share a common bond - be it through sexual orientation, sex, religion, colour etc., - should be allowed to have their own clubs, groups etc. and to decide who may or may not be part of it.

later12 · 17-01-2012 10:48AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with it personally - as long as other races / colours have the right to do so too.

I find the idea of such segregation - even on a voluntary basis - to be really disquieting. Such a pillarised social structure would be far too open to abuse and would be in danger of quietly developing into a systemic segregation of racial or ethnic groups such as in South Africa or Northern Ireland. I find it almost incredible that someone could feel it permissible.

I realise we are getting away from the issue of sex segregation by the way, which thankfully biology dictates should never become systemic.

later12 · 17-01-2012 11:21AM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

They kind of are tbh; being born with a vagina is a bit like finding willie wonka's golden ticket in your underpants

iregk · 17-01-2012 12:22PM

To be fair. The womens only sections in gyms are fine. The gym I used to go to I only once saw a woman in the free weights section so that was pretty much a men only area.

starbelgrade · 17-01-2012 12:23PM

later10 wrote: »

I find the idea of such segregation - even on a voluntary basis - to be really disquieting. Such a pillarised social structure would be far too open to abuse and would be in danger of quietly developing into a systemic segregation of racial or ethnic groups such as in South Africa or Northern Ireland. I find it almost incredible that someone could feel it permissible.

I realise we are getting away from the issue of sex segregation by the way, which thankfully biology dictates should never become systemic.

You have a point - I think the way it works at the minute is fair enough in that you can't discriminate based on sex, race etc., unless you can objectively justify the reason for doing so. Arguably, you can do this for the likes of male or female only gyms, but probably not so for the likes of "white only" nightclubs.

In that case, the principal probably isn't the same at all.

Spunge · 17-01-2012 12:24PM

Any man going to a "men only" gym would be labelled a homo.

Dudess · 17-01-2012 12:30PM

later10 wrote: »

AeoNGriM wrote: »

and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

They kind of are tbh; being born with a vagina is a bit like finding willie wonka's golden ticket in your underpants

Sigh.

It's depressing reading this shyte from even intelligent people.
Try saying that to a woman in Pakistan.

Just because men get treated like sh1t when it comes to some stuff - and they do, and it's appalling, but it doesn't mean it's fair to say nonsense like the above.
Men benefit due to their gender, they suffer due to their gender; for women it's the exact same.

Christ will the oneupmanship ever end...?

Captain_Generic · 17-01-2012 12:32PM

Everything's sexism these days. If you open a door for a woman, you're discriminating against women, unless you'd do the same for a man.
That's why I fart on buses

Gyms and Women only sections. Sexism or not?

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