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Can YOU represent Airsoft?

  • 10-01-2012 7:24pm
    #1
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭


    There is another thread available for the proposal to allow commercial interests to have executive positions in order for the IAA to not become disbanded as they are willing to do the work.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056506302

    This thread is for the discussion or perhaps realisation that the Players Association can no longer be sustained by the players.

    ****

    For those who are scared away by anything IAA or bickering related i implore you to disregard it, hang in there and continue reading.

    At present the IAA (as a body) has excellent work behind it and has established the sport..... (roll credits) however as the AGM was called and there was not 1 nomination for a position it will disband at the AGM.

    Now thats not scaremongering or over statement, it is a fact.

    What this means is far too complicated for the point i want to make so i will continue to my point and leave you to this research.

    Can the players, you... yes you reading this, can any of you see yourself representing airsoft (as i hope you already do) while also doing some roles associated with a position of the IAA.

    Can any of you come forward and say that they feel they could do the job?
    Don't get into pointing to past committee's or actions, reactions blah blah blah.
    Only consider the present, the IAA is dying, can you help?

    If you can i implore you to nominate yourself for a position so that we continue to run the IAA as a player run association and then ammend it as needed to allow it to grow and represent everyone including those with commercial interests.

    If nobody does then we all have no choice but to pass the changes that will allow our commercial interests to take those positions and keep the good work going and represent the sport.

    Current Positions Open:

    i. Chairperson
    ii. Vice Chair Person
    iii Secretary
    iv. PRO - Nuke1973
    v. Treasurer
    vi. National Childrens Officer.

    Updated 10/01/2012


Comments

  • #2
    horgan_p
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭horgan_p


    I would be interested ,but with these aims :


    1) Make membership free for a period of one year. Get the numbers in and get the numbers up.

    2) 4 open "town hall" style meetings of the committee , 1 every 3 months. 1 in each province (munster , connaught , leinster and ulster). this would be in addition to the regular meetings , which I assume are happening every other month at least.

    3) Unaffiliate everyone and examine the affiliation process. Make it commercially advantageous to be affiliated.

    4) Take the whole thing apart , separate every nut from every bolt and if it isn't working - chuck it out. Start at the beginning with the constitution and work your way up. get the members to vote on the changes you make along the way.

    5) raise revenue by selling patches / badges / t-shirts or fleeces. Airsofters love telling the world that they're Airsofters.

    6) Engage the members - whether thats with Facebook , twitter , emails or even snail mail. Hammer them with info - make sure they know at least once every 2 months whats going on.

    7) commercial rep : have 1 commercial rep on the committee.let the commercials organize themselves and then put forward 1 spokesperson. Exec / non exec ? I really wouldn't mind.

    8) 3 "gathering" style events during the year. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of this one , but I do know we need to get back to basics , where airsoft was a community.

    I think that would nicely fill up the year , a hell of a lot of work , but I think at the end of it all you'd have done a "reboot" of the association.Hopefully keep the same committee for year 2 - which is your growth year.After that I think (assuming the jobs been done right) you wouldn't have a problem filling a committee.


    Pretty much anything less is a waste of time.as I said before ,the thing's shagged - it needs a serious kick in the ass.


  • #3
    Lemming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    One other thing to add to horgan_p's wishlist; proper, organised minutes, produced in timely fashion. Just like this, or this, or this, all taken from the UKAPU.

    They are closer to what I would expect from minutes (and was involved in producing during commitee years elsewhere), provide a clear and more accountable, transparent message to members & non-members alike, show activity, direction, and generally that the organisation has traction.


  • #4
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    OK, I'd be willing to go forward for it. I have experience as a PRO and event production as well as data protection(current role) and web development


  • #5
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    horgan_p wrote: »
    1) Make membership free for a period of one year. Get the numbers in and get the numbers up.

    This is against the constitution as it stands as a consideration must be paid for membership
    horgan_p wrote: »
    2) 4 open "town hall" style meetings of the committee , 1 every 3 months. 1 in each province (munster , connaught , leinster and ulster). this would be in addition to the regular meetings , which I assume are happening every other month at least.

    This is a nice idea, but however desirable, I reckon would be very difficult to get running. I had the same idea two years ago, and unfortunately without everyone on the committee having access to transport and others with job / family commitments we just couldnt do it.
    horgan_p wrote: »
    3) Unaffiliate everyone and examine the affiliation process. Make it commercially advantageous to be affiliated.

    "Article 15.2. No Member shall be deprived of Membership, either temporarily or permanently, without the opportunity to plead their case to the Executive Committee"
    Affiliation is defined as a class of membership in itself, so this could lead to some problems for the committee.
    Could you clarify the "commercially advantageous" bit for me please
    horgan_p wrote: »
    4) Take the whole thing apart , separate every nut from every bolt and if it isn't working - chuck it out. Start at the beginning with the constitution and work your way up. get the members to vote on the changes you make along the way.

    Changing anything with the constitution requires a general meeting - do you propose having a number of these throughout the year bearing in mind any amendment requires 30 days notice ?
    horgan_p wrote: »
    5) raise revenue by selling patches / badges / t-shirts or fleeces. Airsofters love telling the world that they're Airsofters.

    Fantastic idea
    horgan_p wrote: »
    6) Engage the members - whether thats with Facebook , twitter , emails or even snail mail. Hammer them with info - make sure they know at least once every 2 months whats going on.

    Agreed
    horgan_p wrote: »
    7) commercial rep : have 1 commercial rep on the committee.let the commercials organize themselves and then put forward 1 spokesperson. Exec / non exec ? I really wouldn't mind.

    Exec would require a constitutional change, but in general agreed
    horgan_p wrote: »
    8) 3 "gathering" style events during the year. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of this one , but I do know we need to get back to basics , where airsoft was a community.

    Would this not better done by the affiliates - the committee workload will be massive as it stands
    horgan_p wrote: »
    I think that would nicely fill up the year , a hell of a lot of work

    Understatement of the year IMO

    I dont want to appear negative, but I am acutely aware of the workload required to do the job. Realistically you are looking at dedicating a minimum of 1 day of your week to committee activities


  • #6
    horgan_p
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭horgan_p


    I could argue the point back and forth all night , but I wont.
    Either you want it fixed or you dont.What I outlined above would fix it.

    You've had 2 years and look where we are.Maybe it's time for new thinking.



    I will explain commercially advantageous though - It means that retailers / sites will want to be affiliated , whether through promotions or free publicity etc. in other words being affiliated will drive customers to them as opposed to an unaffiliated retailer / site.


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  • #7
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    horgan_p wrote: »
    I could argue the point back and forth all night , but I wont.
    Either you want it fixed or you dont.What I outlined above would fix it.

    You've had 2 years and look where we are.Maybe it's time for new thinking.



    I will explain commercially advantageous though - It means that retailers / sites will want to be affiliated , whether through promotions or free publicity etc.

    Hi Paul,

    A lot of the proposals you put forward, while with good intentions, assume that the framework around which the IAA is built can be dismantled, which simply isn't the case. They also assume a massive amount of support and legwork available on demand, which as we all know is scarce, and always has been.

    What I'd suggest is that you run, and attempt to affect that change. It's clear you have an ambitious vision. You should know that no one person can do it, and a firm example of dedication and hard work is always going to be more well-received than a list of demands.


  • #8
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    Paul,

    I am not looking for a fight. I am merely pointing out that there are certain restrictions placed on the activities of the committee by the constitution (and rightly so). I respect your desire to run and I have asked you on many occasions on the phone if you would consider running.
    Dont take my observations as criticism - nothing could be further from the truth


  • #9
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    OK, I'd be willing to go forward for it. I have experience as a PRO and event production as well as data protection(current role) and web development

    Excellent.
    So PRO role for you i take it?


  • #10
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    drpepper wrote: »
    Excellent.
    So PRO role for you i take it?

    Sure why not, tough gig but always an interesting one


  • #11
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    drpepper wrote: »
    Excellent.
    So PRO role for you i take it?

    Sure why not, tough gig but always an interesting one

    Alright, a few more people like this out there that are willing to help their sport to survive?


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  • #12
    Zen 2nd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Zen 2nd


    I'd love to do something but I'm unsure what I could bring forward to the IAA. I'm in Galway at the moment but I hope to return to Dublin for good early March.

    Also I never signed up for membership from seeing people who had difficultly signing up.


  • #13
    Faolchu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    could you elaborate on what is expected of people in the remaining roles.


  • #14
    se conman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    I intend going for a position on the executive committee but have a slightly different outlook on the purpose of the IAA now.
    Airsoft is a phrase used to cover sites , retailers , collectors , plinkers and players. All of these have a part to play in airsoft in Ireland , so in my opinion all should have an opportunity to have a voice in how the "sport" is controlled.
    All of the above can be split into two main groups , users and facilitators. Now , if we take the users , if you talk to any retailer they will tell you that the smallest part of their business is players yet we , the players insist on having total control over how the "sport is controlled , why ? Because we are the most vocal and visible , that is why.
    I would like to include plinkers and collectors as-well as retailers/sites in the IAA and make it truly The Irish Airsoft Association for all airsoft users and facilitators.
    Plinkers is a part of airsoft that we all describe as just shooting in your back garden and we then immediately go on the defencive saying "but you can't let anyone see you" Why not just say "Plinking it's just target shooting" end of.
    Collectors are a big part of airsoft so why not give them an opportunity to display their lovely collections. I would look for a site to put aside a weekend for a display. A small entry fee would cover any loss of earnings and teams could also set up camp , It could be a big show and tell with the IAA at the forefront.
    Retailers in my opinion should be able to sell/sign up people to the IAA. I would work hard at getting all retailers affiliated to the IAA and give them something in return like hosting info days in their stores and making a big push on getting people to support affiliated retailers.
    Sites are our biggest asset , it is where most people meet and where the best work can be done. I would like the IAA committee to rock up once every 6 or 8 weeks to a site en-force. The goodwill alone that this could do is immense. The ordinary airsofter need to see their committee on the ground playing and talking , mixing with young and old and being more than a call-sign on the Internet. (Tommy arrived down to us for an event and we milked him while we had him)
    The IAA has business to attend to but that is only of interest to very few , whether we like it or not most people just want to know "what is the IAA doing for me ?" I am not going to talk about the business because that has to be done regardless of who is on the committee , but what I will talk about is the image of the IAA. I would like to be part of a committee that is more visible (I am lucky in my job in that I have visited nearly 20 retailers in Ireland) By visiting sites as a committee it makes players more aware of the IAA. By attending more military shows we can include more collectors , this can be as little as an attending team or site flying an IAA flag with leaflets at hand.
    I would also like to change the types of membership slightly ,
    1 €2 Under 18 non-voting , over 18 non-voting.
    Payable at retailers/sites , names on a list only.
    2 €10 Over 18 Voting ,
    Join at retailers or at IAA.
    3 €50 Affiliate non-voting ,
    Site , retailer , club , team , Any group that wants to be advertised by the IAA or just wants to support the IAA.
    I have more ideas but that is enough to be going on with.


  • #15
    hellfireie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 345 ✭✭hellfireie


    Fair play to you se conman you will have my vote for sure !!


  • #16
    kieranfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭kieranfitz


    Mine too se conamn


  • #17
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    se conman are you actually going for a position cause that isnt clear.
    If so which one?

    Thanks.


  • #18
    _ricochet_
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭_ricochet_


    Best of luck conman, an ideal chairman imho.


  • #19
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Is it possible to restructure the payment scheme for membership like that? Thought there was some issues in doing that.

    Although sounds a pretty solid idea.

    For example, while I probably wouldn't pay normal membership (out of principle not out of scabyness ) I would probably sign up for the €2 option for non voting rights.

    Actually a pretty good idea when you think about it, but I guess it wouldn't be classed as membership, more so annual donation.


  • #20
    se conman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    drpepper wrote: »
    se conman are you actually going for a position cause that isnt clear.
    If so which one?

    Thanks.
    As I said on the first line of my post "I intend to" but have some things to clear up first.


  • #21
    J.D.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭J.D.R


    Under who's remit does the upkeep of the IAA's website come under?


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  • #22
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    J.D.R wrote: »
    Under who's remit does the upkeep of the IAA's website come under?
    It is a non executive position that hasn't been filled In 2 years. The ideal candidate would need experience in php / MySQL / Wordpress aswell as other web technologies. At this stage someone with web design skills would also be desirable as the site requires a major overhaul.


  • #23
    J.D.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭J.D.R


    BioHazRd wrote: »
    It is a non executive position that hasn't been filled In 2 years. The ideal candidate would need experience in php / MySQL / Wordpress aswell as other web technologies. At this stage someone with web design skills would also be desirable as the site requires a major overhaul.

    I the mean time, does the website not have a content management system where all the outdated/misleading content can be removed? Such as the "Monthly Updates" at the official documents section, which hasn't been updated since July 2009?


  • #24
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    Wordpress is cms. I am sure that the older info could be moved into an archive section, but I reckon this should be part of the overhaul anyway.


  • #25
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    BioHazRd wrote: »
    Wordpress is cms. I am sure that the older info could be moved into an archive section, but I reckon this should be part of the overhaul anyway.

    #
    The whole site should be moved fully into a CMS like wordpress or Joomla.

    I'd personally recommend Joomla as it can be integrated with JomSocial and other bits for a fully social Web 2.0.

    And it's easy enough to do, even without rafts of PHP/MySQL. Just make sure of your security and you'll be sorted.


  • #26
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    #
    The whole site should be moved fully into a CMS like wordpress or Joomla.

    I'd personally recommend Joomla as it can be integrated with JomSocial and other bits for a fully social Web 2.0.

    And it's easy enough to do, even without rafts of PHP/MySQL. Just make sure of your security and you'll be sorted.

    The site is already on wordpress. It says so down the bottom. What is "a fully social Web 2.0"?


  • #27
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    I dont think an off the shelf CMS would do the job adequately (but that is just a personal opinion). I have written my own CMS in the past, and to be honest, you get a lot more flexibility and you get the features you want without the crap that you dont.
    That being said, I think we are venturing slightly off topic here, so if anyone wants to continue this discussion in depth, might I suggest creating a thread over on the IAA projects forum http://www.irishairsoft.ie/forum/viewforum.php?f=10
    And, before anyone asks, I am not proposing that I write a CMS for the IAA


  • #28
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    gerrowadat wrote: »
    The site is already on wordpress. It says so down the bottom. What is "a fully social Web 2.0"?

    It's a god awful sentence is what it is, not even sure what i was aiming for but it was one of those days


  • #29
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Nuke1973 was that an offer to be the Technical Advisor?


  • #30
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    drpepper wrote: »
    Nuke1973 was that an offer to be the Technical Advisor?


    No, I'd go for PRO though but now looks like i'll be abroad the week of the agm :(


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  • #31
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    No, I'd go for PRO though but now looks like i'll be abroad the week of the agm :(

    Nobody can actually get voted into a position at the agm.
    There will be an EGM for voting.


  • #32
    drpepper
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Hi all,

    Just wanted to say that we need all the nominations to be put forward onto the IAA forums before the AGM so we can vote people in at the EGM.

    So if you want to run post on the forums and get seconded
    http://www.irishairsoft.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=791


  • #33
    fayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 913 ✭✭✭fayer


    Forums are open here to ask candidates for position questions.

    IAA EGM Forums


  • #34
    deepimpact
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭deepimpact


    Two members have had their names put forward and seconded by members and both have accepted the nominations.

    Fair play lads, look forward to meeting you at the AGM.

    For anyone else considering running, the closing dates for nominations and motion proposals is this Friday at 5pm.

    Get nominating...


  • #35
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i'm sorry but are ye saying that the closing date for noms is before the agm
    and until the agm no one with a commercial interest can be nommed?

    why not leave it one more day allow noms at the agm assuming the proposal might be passed of at the very least that the azgm inspires people that a bigger in real life than on the web to run.


  • #36
    deepimpact
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭deepimpact


    Tigger wrote: »
    i'm sorry but are ye saying that the closing date for noms is before the agm

    Yes.

    However, voting on these positions will take place at the EGM, due to the lack of nominations for the AGM deadline (hence the reason for the other thread).
    Tigger wrote: »
    and until the agm no one with a commercial interest can be nommed?

    Yes. That is how the constitution is currently worded and so precludes commercial interests from being Executive Committee members,

    To flesh it out, there is a proposal for the EGM that commercial interests can be voted into the Executive Committee, but that has to be voted on by members at the EGM (as does any constitutional change) and is just as likely to fail as to pass.
    Tigger wrote: »
    why not leave it one more day allow noms at the agm assuming the proposal might be passed of at the very least that the azgm inspires people that a bigger in real life than on the web to run.

    If someone wants to propose a motion, I don't think 24 extra hours will make them rethink their idea.

    The deadline is the deadline, that is also set out in the constitution. People will be inconvenienced, regardless of the deadline, but such is life.


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  • #37
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    Tigger wrote: »
    i'm sorry but are ye saying that the closing date for noms is before the agm
    and until the agm no one with a commercial interest can be nommed?

    why not leave it one more day allow noms at the agm assuming the proposal might be passed of at the very least that the azgm inspires people that a bigger in real life than on the web to run.

    Actually tigger the motion on those with commercial interests becoming committee members won't be voted upon until the EGM so there will be no nominations from that area. However if the motion is passed at the EGM then members with commercial interests could be co-opted onto the committee.

    The reason it can't be voted upon until the EGM is that it wasn't proposed in time to be voted at the AGM.


  • #38
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i rember when tiger land started
    i said th keith and whoever else was there
    "i'm not in any community or commity and i don't vote"
    this is why

    whoever wants to represent airsoft should

    end


  • #39
    NakedDex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭NakedDex


    Tigger wrote: »
    whoever wants to represent airsoft should

    ...as long as they're elected within the rules and regulations in the constitution. Or are you suggest we toss the constitution because it's inconvenient?


  • #40
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    Hi,

    one more nomination needed so that if people are voted in there will be a quorom for the IAA committee.

    Surely there is one person(IAA Member) out there willing to take a stand for the game ?

    People are very quick to knock something down, I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but now is your chance to help and do something. Even if you don't think you have much to contribute I assure you: you will surprise yourself.


  • #41
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    NakedDex wrote: »
    ...as long as they're elected within the rules and regulations in the constitution. Or are you suggest we toss the constitution because it's inconvenient?

    where did i say that?


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  • #42
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    NakedDex wrote: »
    ...as long as they're elected within the rules and regulations in the constitution. Or are you suggest we toss the constitution because it's inconvenient?

    No, he's saying that rules are too hard to understand so he's not going to bother.


  • #43
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    gerrowadat wrote: »
    No, he's saying that rules are too hard to understand so he's not going to bother.

    Yup
    I own two companies I've got degrees in engineering and chemistry and everything to do with the poly-tics* that goes along with Airsoft makes less and less sense to me.

    As I've reiterated in this thread I believe that whoever has the belief in and love of Airsoft to help run its representitative body should.

    * politic from poly meaning many and tic a small blood sucking leach


  • #44
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    In a way you're right. People shouldn't feel they need to be on a committee or elected or somehow have a mandate to do stuff for Airsoft. Some of the most dedicated people who've done things for Airsoft and/or the IAA over the past several years weren't anywhere near the committee, nor had any interest in it.

    It's easy to get bogged down in the rules and regs: Airsoft does need a representative body however, because that's just how the world works.


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