Grey muscle

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 12:45AM #1

Once again it appears the grey muscle brigade are out to avoid their share of budget cuts. I wouldn't mind so much, but it's neausiating to listen to well heeled retirees trotting out the "most vulnerable" line yet again when their interests are at stake.
When the last government tried to remove the medical card from the section of the older community who recieve 70k + of a pension they were shouted out of it, with hyperbole about people dying in their homes because of it.
This time, while revenue appear to have made a bit of a balls of the letters, the intent to tax combined pensions over 50k is I think reasonable given the current state of affairs.
I have no issue with how much of a pension these people recieve, many get it from their own private sector pension scheme, which they contributed to, but surely it's only fair they pay their share in these times.
IMO 50k+ (which is the figure Revenue have said they are interested in) is a very decent income in retirement.
They cry that these are the people who worked for nothing in hard times past, but aren't many of these also the people who benefitted most from the boom of the last 15- 20 years ?
David Mc Williams in his book "the generation game" points out that there has been a massive transfer of wealth from the 30 to 45 year olds up to the 60+ generation.

They have any money that's left around here, they have years of connections and "old boy" networks, they have plenty of time to protest, - it's practically a hobby for them, and frankly I'm getting sick of their whinging.
Their children paying massive mortgages, and grandchildren who have no future here have it a lot tougher in my opinion.

Anyone else getting sick of it ?

As I pointed out above, this is not an attack on older people per se, just their culture of bitching and use of their muscle to see off any budgetary measures which affect them.
So don't bother to accuse me of being ageist.

.

Temptamperu · 10-01-2012 12:55AM

I dont think you should have to pay tax twice on the same money. They done there dues already.
I say the gubement need to start looking inward for money not the old folks.

minidazzler · 10-01-2012 01:01AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

I dont think you should have to pay tax twice on the same money. They done there dues already.
I say the gubement need to start looking inward for money not the old folks.

Private pensions are invested and when it comes time to draw it you have probably made a profit. Therefore it's an income. Tax em I say.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 01:02AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

I dont think you should have to pay tax twice on the same money. They done there dues already.
I say the gubement need to start looking inward for money not the old folks.

So no matter what the amount they earn/collect in pension they shouldn't have to pay anything on it, despite it being TAX FREE money they put into it in the first place.
Where are they being taxed twice ?

Rabble rabble rabble, gubberment should cut their own wages etc rabble rabble rabble. :rolleyes:

TheZohanS · 10-01-2012 01:29AM

johnr1 wrote: »

Anyone else getting sick of it ?

.

I am. I'm getting sick of people attacking the old age pensioners. They've paid their dues, leave them alone and let them enjoy retirement. They built this country and paid their taxes.

Pick on someone else FFS.

RichieC · 10-01-2012 01:34AM

Grey muscle o_O

My name is URL · 10-01-2012 01:34AM

Anyone likely to morph into an old person some day should pay for every mistake ever made

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 01:37AM

TheZohan wrote: »

I am. I'm getting sick of people attacking the old age pensioners. They've paid their dues, leave them alone and let them enjoy retirement. They built this country and paid their taxes.

Pick on someone else FFS.

If you were half as smart as you appear to think you are, you'd dissect and refute my arguments as to why they should pay their share of taxes like everyone else.
Your response is uninformed and you clearly didn't read my post, where I stated about three times in three different ways that I have no issue with pensioners, I just expect them to pay their share.

Stupid response. I'd expect no more from you though.

My name is URL · 10-01-2012 01:41AM

The old people, the young people, the people that don't work, the students, the public sector, the self employed, the wealthy, the new poor & the scroungers.

They all need to fcuk off so that I have me slice.

Temptamperu · 10-01-2012 01:41AM

johnr1 wrote: »

If you were half as smart as you appear to think you are, you'd dissect and refute my arguments as to why they should pay their share of taxes like everyone else.
Your response is uninformed and you clearly didn't read my post, where I stated about three times in three different ways that I have no issue with pensioners, I just expect them to pay their share.

Stupid response. I'd expect no more from you though.

What the hell have they been doing there whole working life? I suppose they never payed a lick of tax at all? They have done there dues and because they are smart enough to put money away we should tax intelligence?

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 01:45AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

What the hell have they been doing there whole working life? I suppose they never payed a lick of tax at all? They have done there dues and because they are smart enough to put money away we should tax intelligence?

Well a few minutes ago you thought they were paying double tax on this money, now you have an issue with them paying tax on it once?

TheZohanS · 10-01-2012 01:48AM

johnr1 wrote: »

If you were half as smart as you appear to think you are, you'd dissect and refute my arguments as to why they should pay their share of taxes like everyone else.
Your response is uninformed and you clearly didn't read my post, where I stated about three times in three different ways that I have no issue with pensioners, I just expect them to pay their share.

Stupid response. I'd expect no more from you though.

What a completely retarded post, a mongoloid post as it were, but of course I'd expect no less from you.

Leave the old people alone.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 01:57AM

TheZohan wrote: »

What a completely retarded post, a mongoloid post as it were, but of course I'd expect no less from you.

Leave the old people alone.

And again, no attempt- however weak or pathetic to address the subject matter.

"Four legs good, two legs bad".
:rolleyes:

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TheZohanS · 10-01-2012 02:02AM

johnr1 wrote: »

And again, no attempt- however weak or pathetic to address the subject matter.

"Four legs good, two legs bad".
:rolleyes:

.

When you replied with the ad hominem attack I lost all interest in having any sort of debate with you, now run along, you and your kind are not worth a ban.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 02:12AM

TheZohan wrote: »

When you replied with the ad hominem attack I lost all interest in having any sort of debate with you, now run along, you and your kind are not worth a ban.

Well in fairness, look what I was replying to, - a non response basically accusing me of just "attacking old age pensioners" as if my OP was some totally outrageous statement like "euthanise them all" or something, or suggesting that it was their fault that the country is bankrupt, which I never did.
I actually thought it was a fairly balanced OP tbh.

RickRoll · 10-01-2012 02:17AM

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjm4n4umw1rn1xxfo1_400.gif

Yakult · 10-01-2012 02:51AM

Why don't we target the traveling (That don't travel....) community?
Wtf have they ever done positively for this country other than receive alot of money, free houses, expensive cars, jeeps, vans (

). They add nothing to society yet they get the most.

YET this gov. wants to tax pensions that have been put away from countless years of hard working and paying tax back then.

Fools.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 03:06AM

Yakult wrote: »

Why don't we target the traveling (That don't travel....) community?
Wtf have they ever done positively for this country other than receive alot of money, free houses, expensive cars, jeeps, vans (). They add nothing to society yet they get the most.

YET this gov. wants to tax pensions that have been put away from countless years of hard working and paying tax back then.

Fools.

First section is off topic and not correct anyway so let's just leave that bit.

Last bit : Do you think it's fair to recieve a pension of 50 grand a year derived from money you invested TAX FREE, and pay NO TAX on it while we close our hospitals, pay our student nurses 8k a year less USC for 42 hours pw work?

Really? Cos thats what you just said.

Temptamperu · 10-01-2012 03:12AM

It looked to me like he was targeting the travelers and said nothing about the student nurses

Son Of A Vidic · 10-01-2012 03:17AM

johnr1 wrote: »

..IMO 50k+ (which is the figure Revenue have said they are interested in) is a very decent income in retirement.

And for very many people it would represent a very decent wage. Therefore they are more than able to afford to pay some tax on it. These pensions were also amassed with some nice tax incentives in the past, so what goes around comes around. If people receiving state pensions are taking the pain, then these whiny fúcks on 50K+ should just STFU.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 03:19AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

It looked to me like he was targeting the travelers and said nothing about the student nurses

Yes, I got that bit Temptamperu, I used them as an example of how little some people who work very hard have to live on because that particular one shocked and disgusted me when I heard it.

Yet, you and he seem to think that a pensioner on 50k+ and this is who Revenue are targetting, not the ones under that figure, should not pay any tax on it ????

oppenheimer1 · 10-01-2012 03:24AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

I dont think you should have to pay tax twice on the same money. They done there dues already.
I say the gubement need to start looking inward for money not the old folks.

They voted for the current mess... shouldn't they pay?

The fact that they are old shouldn't come into it... we should tax those that can most afford to be taxed. That includes wealthy pensioners.

10-01-2012 03:26AM

The government are getting too big for its boots, its time the wrinkly masses laid the smackdown again.

They are the largest voting bloc anyway so it was stupid to not pander to them.

stovelid · 10-01-2012 03:34AM

The more I read AH these days, I realize that the default political position can be summed up as I think some cunt may be getting something that I'm not but I can't actually prove it.

Irish Steve · 10-01-2012 03:40AM

Whatever happens, it's going to be short term, and there's a much bigger problem coming down the line before long,

There are plenty of people in their late 50's and early 60's that are going to be lucky to have 5 K a year let alone 50 K a year before long, unless they worked for the state.

They spent most of their money on buying a decent property, because they were told 20 or 30 years ago that the best investment for their retirement was property, and they believed it.

They've seen their cash reserves wiped out by the downturn, and the problems of supporting their children through the problems of the last few years, and massive energy price rises.

Their pension funds and shares have been wiped out by the mistakes of the politicians and bankers.

Their pension value in their property has been decimated and at the moment is almost unsaleable.

They are faced with massive increases in taxes that didn't exist before, and some of those taxes are significant.

The value of their pension from the state is under threat, or may not be there at all if they made the mistake of going self employed for a while.

Many of them are now unemployed, but have massive debts from the collapse, and no way to pay them other than sell their only remaining asset, their house

What that's going to mean in possibly less than 10 years time will be a lot of people that are poor in every aspect of the word, because they tried to provide for their retirement, but are now in a position where their provisions have been destroyed by the greed and short term actions of people that were not acting in the interest of anyone other than themselves.

That's when you will see real Grey Muscle, because they'll have nothing else to do, and nothing left to lose.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 03:43AM

stovelid wrote: »

The more I read AH these days, I realize that the default political position can be summed up as I think some cunt may be getting something that I'm not but I can't actually prove it.

Well everyone is in favour of more taxation - of someone else.

That's a given, but the thread was originally meant to be about the power older people hold because more of them vote, and how they are (quite sensibly IMO) using that power to avoid any budgetary pain.

The medical card issue showed the complete cowardice Cowens government, and if this crowd row back on the taxation, I'll give up on this country.

johnr1 · 10-01-2012 03:46AM

Irish Steve wrote: »

Whatever happens, it's going to be short term, and there's a much bigger problem coming down the line before long,

There are plenty of people in their late 50's and early 60's that are going to be lucky to have 5 K a year let alone 50 K a year before long, unless they worked for the state.

They spent most of their money on buying a decent property, because they were told 20 or 30 years ago that the best investment for their retirement was property, and they believed it.

They've seen their cash reserves wiped out by the downturn, and the problems of supporting their children through the problems of the last few years, and massive energy price rises.

Their pension funds and shares have been wiped out by the mistakes of the politicians and bankers.

Their pension value in their property has been decimated and at the moment is almost unsaleable.

They are faced with massive increases in taxes that didn't exist before, and some of those taxes are significant.

The value of their pension from the state is under threat, or may not be there at all if they made the mistake of going self employed for a while.

Many of them are now unemployed, but have massive debts from the collapse, and no way to pay them other than sell their only remaining asset, their house

What that's going to mean in possibly less than 10 years time will be a lot of people that are poor in every aspect of the word, because they tried to provide for their retirement, but are now in a position where their provisions have been destroyed by the greed and short term actions of people that were not acting in the interest of anyone other than themselves.

That's when you will see real Grey Muscle, because they'll have nothing else to do, and nothing left to lose.

I agree.

Hank_Jones · 10-01-2012 03:48AM

I say fair play to them for kicking up stink.

If the rest of the nation organised half as well as pensioners do,
then I doubt that government cuts would be so stringent.

The J Stands for Jay · 10-01-2012 08:36AM

Temptamperu wrote: »

I dont think you should have to pay tax twice on the same money. They done there dues already.
I say the gubement need to start looking inward for money not the old folks.

They didn't pay tax on their pension contributions. Try are only taxed once in retirement and they knew this from the day they signed up. This shouldn't be a surprise to them.

The J Stands for Jay · 10-01-2012 08:38AM

TheZohan wrote: »

They've paid their dues, leave them alone and let them enjoy retirement. They built this country and paid their taxes.

The point is that they haven't paid their taxes.

The J Stands for Jay · 10-01-2012 08:51AM

This issue is that people who are getting payments from a private pension haven't been paying the right amount of tax. The state pension is taxable, but on its own it's below the level of income where tax is to be paid. This means pretty much any private pension should push them over into paying some tax.

When they originally set up their pensions, the government said, "if you pay money on here, you won't pay any tax on it till you're old and wrinkley." So that meant their tax bill went down for that year. So now that the government are following up looking for payment of the deferred tax, the old people won't hold up their part of the deal?

It's a disgrace Joe.

Grey muscle

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