NFL Playoffs Thread

kmart6 · 10-01-2012 12:43AM

Wow...use some paragraphs and that would be much easier to read!!

kmart6 · 10-01-2012 12:44AM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Six of the ten passes Tebow completed were to WR that had got behind the CB - the actual distance of the pass is irrelevent.

Well then if your saying the distance of the pass doesn't matter, then I presume Tebow's total yards doesn't matter either?!

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Tebow has won 8 and lost 4 games this season - you can look at the last three games if your want but the season is longer than that - and the loss again NE was his best passing performance outside of last night.

Ah yes 11/22 194Yards(a large amount of that when the game was over) 2TD's and 2 Fumbles...fantastic numbers :rolleyes:

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Is Tebow a competent NFL QB as is expected today - no - of course not - but his has taken a team that started 1-4 and were awful into the second game of the play-offs playing the way he plays best.

Yep, cause it's been all Tebow, it's been nothing to do with the D keeping them in games where he can't hit open receivers for the majority of the game

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

We shall see - the Broncos stayed with NE through the game except for the 2nd quarter which has been a problem all season except for last night.

Wow, how blind are you? Being out scored 34-3 over 3 quarters is not staying with them!

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Dick LeBeau used the correct defence for the read-option all game - the Broncos executed, Pittsburgh did not - end of.

Oh so NE have no chance since you believe McDaniels doesn't have a clue what the read option is!

poldebruin wrote: »

This is just getting ridiculous - anyone that watches football could see Denver were taking shots deep, YAC or not is totally irrelevant.

See above point!

poldebruin wrote: »

I think the point that was being made is that when executed properly, it will prove difficult to defend. There is no doubt nor argument that Denver didn't execute for the last 3 games of the season.

You need both execution and poor defense, not just about him actually getting completions!

poldebruin wrote: »

Regarding Tebow's completion %. In this type of offence, there aren't high percentage passes that substitute for runs as there are in the many WCO that are run around the league. Instead, Denver run when they want to run. And when they try to pass, it is normally in the intermediate to deep end of the scale.

10-15 Yard incompletions can not be considered intermediate-deep passes, I've lost count of the amount of times he has missed open receivers from either throwing at their feet or way over their head...his accuracy is still a huge issue!

poldebruin wrote: »

I knew i would read this on the forum today - that the Steelers weren't that good at all, they had injuries, they are old, they played poorly etc. They were ranked no.1 statistically D in the NFL, possibly not the actual best Defense, but they are no slouches and everybody was predicting that they would crush Denver. It didn't work out that way, and were it not for a blown call on the lateral Denver would have been out of sight of Pittsburgh. Denver should have beaten them far more comprehensively than the final score suggested.

Statistics over 16 games don't mean that it'll continue to the next game or do you think it should?!

Are you trying to say injuries didn't affect them?! Clark couldn't play for health reasons, they lost both Hampton and Kiesel to suspected ACL's and Ben was screwed!

Overall they were poor though, I'm not using it as an excuse because I don't support them and it doesn't bother me, but if someone is trying to say they played well they're blind! One of Polamalu's poorest games!

poldebruin wrote: »

I'm sure they knew, and Dick LeBeau's D was set up to be aggressive and to bottle up the run. If they leave someone back, maybe Tebow checks into a run and Denver drive up the field?

It's a strange one to me, the run hadn't been great all night, longest run's were two 11 Yard gains! So how worried could they have been!?

kmart6 · 10-01-2012 01:47AM

Devastating news for Joe Philbin!

ProFootballTalk wrote:

Jason Wilde of ESPN Wisconsin reported a short time ago that the Packers players have been told that the body of Michael Philbin, son of offensive coordinator Joe Philbin, has been identified. The younger Philbin had been reported missing after last being heard from at 2 a.m. on Sunday and authorities were searching around Oshkosh in hopes of finding him. A body was recovered earlier Monday in Oshkosh.

Our thoughts go out to the Philbin family and the larger Packer family at this time.

Something like this puts football in perspective as only a game!

Really could have an effect on the Packers!

Red Crow · 10-01-2012 05:39AM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Eli Manning wrote: »

Delusion of the highest order. Championship defense?

Pure cockiness.

Got your hotel in Indianapolis yet?

In fairness, the Packers are general 8/9 points favourites so it's hardly cockiness to think they will win by 14.

Their defense was a championship defense last year, so it's not like it's impossible they'll step up. And part of the reason the Packers have been so good this year is the amount of turnovers that D has created. People get caught up in Points/yards allowed but forget how many points that D has scored and how many short fields they've given Rodgers.

A championship defense isn't a giveaway defense.

bruschi · 10-01-2012 08:51AM

Eli Manning wrote: »

A championship defense isn't a giveaway defense.

this here is why I think the Packers are beatable. They are relying interceptions to keep the opposition off the field. They have worse yards against than the Patriots.

It just sems odd to me that when the Patriots (rightly) are knocked as being vulnerable because of their bad defence, the same argument doesnt seem to be that common for the Packers even though I think it is a major weakness for them.

with some of the debate above, I dont see why Stevo needs to have stats and prove his point if in his opinion he thinks the Steelers defence is over rated. much like the comment of the Packers defence being a championship defence, I honestly would not agree, but it doesnt mean whoever said it is wrong, its just their opinion. being over rated is someones opinion too.

Morrisseeee · 10-01-2012 11:45AM

€20 on a 49ers(17/10) / Broncos(15/2) speculative double would be nice !
I don't think the Giants(29/10) will win, the Pack are too strong in all areas & home adv, but as the NFL commentators say: "....I BELIEVE in Eli" :pac:, so adding them to a treble would net a big profit and a big

Chardee MacDennis · 10-01-2012 11:57AM

i think the Giants, 49ers, Texans and Broncos can all win (in that order of likelihood) this weekend. There'll be at least one upset anyway thats why i'm going:

Green Bay
49ers
Patriots
Ravens

WakeyTyke · 10-01-2012 01:22PM

Last year's Packers thrived on the adversity of having 16 players on IR which drove them on all the way to winning the SB. Questions have been asked on whether the Pack can create the same edge for this year's play-offs.

The consequence of the tragic loss of the life of OC's Joe Philbin's son could well be the factor that drive them on to another SB.

Jolly Red Giant · 10-01-2012 07:12PM

kmart6 wrote: »

Well then if your saying the distance of the pass doesn't matter, then I presume Tebow's total yards doesn't matter either?!

I couldn't give a fiddlers how many passing yards a QB has - As a Broncos fan I want them to win games - end of - I don't care how - passing, rushing or by dominant D or sheer luck.

kmart6 wrote: »

Ah yes 11/22 194Yards(a large amount of that when the game was over) 2TD's and 2 Fumbles...fantastic numbers :rolleyes:

You are being facetious - fantastic numbers - no - second best passing performance of the year - yes

kmart6 wrote: »

Yep, cause it's been all Tebow, it's been nothing to do with the D keeping them in games where he can't hit open receivers for the majority of the game

You know that I don't think Tebow is anything approaching a decent passer of the ball. American Football is a team game - both sides - the offense has to score the defence has to stop the oppoents. Several times this season Tebow qb'd comeback wins - Orton would have been floundering in the same situation.

kmart6 wrote: »

Wow, how blind are you? Being out scored 34-3 over 3 quarters is not staying with them!

The Broncos imploded in the second quarter ending with a 17 point deficit - without that it was 24-23. I am not saying the Broncos would have won the game but the Pats scored from a fumble on the Broncos 19yd line, a fumble on the Broncos 40 and a muffed punt reception with 3 seconds left on the 24 yd line.

kmart6 wrote: »

Oh so NE have no chance since you believe McDaniels doesn't have a clue what the read option is!

Pats are hot favourites and should win - however, given what the Broncos have done this season, anything can happen - and last I saw McDaniels was the Offensive co-ordinator (in waiting) - I doubt he will be calling the defensive plays.

kmart6 wrote: »

You need both execution and poor defense, not just about him actually getting completions!

A fully fledged read-option offence with a QB who can run the offence and be a competent passer could do serious damage in the NFL. Defences have to committ to defending the runs (by RB or QB) or keep the safeties back to stop the deep passes. I think it can work - If Tebow develops as a decent passer and Fox installs a grinding read-option scheme with a dominent defence then the Broncos could dominate for a long time. I am going to enjoy watching it either way.

kmart6 wrote: »

10-15 Yard incompletions can not be considered intermediate-deep passes, I've lost count of the amount of times he has missed open receivers from either throwing at their feet or way over their head...his accuracy is still a huge issue!

Who has ever argued anything different

kmart6 wrote: »

Are you trying to say injuries didn't affect them?! Clark couldn't play for health reasons, they lost both Hampton and Kiesel to suspected ACL's and Ben was screwed!

The Broncos lost Decker to that nasty premeditated hit by that thug Harrison and were missing Kuper, Dawkins, Spenser Larson, Ty Warren and Kevin Dickerson (ther two starting DTs) had Miller limited with a cast on his hand. Injuries are part and parcel of the game - you don't win if you can't cope.

kmart6 wrote: »

Overall they were poor though, I'm not using it as an excuse because I don't support them and it doesn't bother me, but if someone is trying to say they played well they're blind! One of Polamalu's poorest games!

Yes they were poor - they couldn't cope with the read-option - both Harrison and Polamalu were running around like headless chickens. They were poor because the Broncos made them play poorly by executing effectively and efficiently (most of the time).

kmart6 wrote: »

It's a strange one to me, the run hadn't been great all night, longest run's were two 11 Yard gains! So how worried could they have been!?

The Broncos have been, are and will continue to be committed to the run. The Steelers contained the running game relatively speaking - the Broncos did run for 130 yards - by putting 9 men in the box and leaving the CB's one-on-one with the receivers much of the time. They didn't think Tebow could hit and could continue to hit, the deep balls - but he did.

adrian522 · 10-01-2012 11:13PM

Well what are your thoughts on the divisional round games

Saints(-3.5) @ 49ers

I'm really looking forward to this one. This the 49ers biggest game in a decade and it couldn't be tougher. Having said all that I can see this being close and I'm confident the 49ers will play well and limit the Saints offence.

The 49ers will need to put pressure on Brees through Aldon smith, and shut down the Saints running game. They'll also need a few takeaways but I think all this is possible. On offense they will have to run the ball well and convert in the red zone and even if they do all this it still might not be good enough.

The last time these 2 played the Saints won the game with a FG as time expired. This one could go right down to the final drive as well. It's probably wishful thinking but I can see the niners taking this. Something like 23-21

Broncos(+13.5) @ Patriots

Surely a bridge too far for Tebow and co. NE hammered Denver 1 month ago and I don't think too much has changed in the interim. Denver may cover the spread but no way I can see them beating New England. Patriots by 10.

Texans(+7.5) @ Ravens

I think the ravens are going to the super bowl, they are unbeaten at home and have a great defence and a great running game. The Texans may have a chance with a fully fit roster but they really stumbled into the play-offs, they'll put up a good show but ravens to advance.Baltimore by 7.

Giants(+7.5) @ Packers

I really think the giants are the last team the packers wanted to see in this game. I think it will be close and the giants on the handicap is a great bet. Eli has had a great season and that will need to continue. They will need to get their running game going and keep Rodgers and co on the sideline. In the end I think even if the Giants play well the packers will find a way to win. I think it will be close but Green Bay by 3.

Syferus · 10-01-2012 11:29PM

The Patriots hardly 'hammered' the Broncos, Tebow and the offense exploited the Patriots defense well and for three quarters the game was very much in the balance, remember that Denver went into a 17-6 lead at one point. If Denver can handle the Steelers then the Patriots are far from a bridge too far.

tallaghtoutlaws · 10-01-2012 11:51PM

Syferus wrote: »

The Patriots hardly 'hammered' the Broncos, Tebow and the offense exploited the Patriots defense well and for three quarters the game was very much in the balance, remember that Denver went into a 17-6 lead at one point. If Denver can handle the Steelers then the Patriots are far from a bridge too far.

Wait what? it was 27-14 to the Pats at Half time. And the Broncos had a 17-7 lead until the pats scored 20 unanswered points up to half time. Pats then scored first in the 2nd half making it 34-17 and making it 27 unanswered points. The Broncos next score was the 4th quarter and at that point the game was well over. It finished 41-23. Its fair to say it was a hammering. The Broncos played well for at most 1 Quarter of football.

Pherekydes · 11-01-2012 12:12AM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Wait what? it was 27-14 to the Pats at Half time. And the Broncos had a 17-7 lead...

Did the Broncos get docked 3 pts? :pac:

UnitedIrishman · 11-01-2012 12:17AM

Just been looking over the Drew Brees 'outside the domes' stats from this year - 5 games, 3 wins and admittedly should've been - Panthers, Jaguars and Titans - and two losses - Packers by 8 and Tampa by 11. Here's a comparison of inside and outside for anyone that's interested (I'm sure there's probably somewhere that had it on their site but I've googled it and can't find anything):

Indoors -
Games - 11
TD's - 37
INTS - 8
Completion % - 72.1
Yards per game - 329.7

Outdoors -
Games - 5
TD's - 9
INT's - 6
Completion % - 69.5
Yards per game - 369.8

Make of them what you will, pretty much level in terms of performance and yards. Only difference is the ratio of TD's - INT's outdoors which bodes well for a defence like the 49ers. Of course, it probably would've been better looking at a bigger array of games over the past few seasons (read somewhere Brees is 0-4 in outdoor playoff games). Does anyone read into the importance of these matters?

adrian522 · 11-01-2012 12:20AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Just been looking over the Drew Brees 'outside the domes' stats from this year - 5 games, 3 wins and admittedly should've been - Panthers, Jaguars and Titans - and two losses - Packers by 8 and Tampa by 11. Here's a comparison of inside and outside for anyone that's interested (I'm sure there's probably somewhere that had it on their site but I've googled it and can't find anything):

Indoors -
Games - 11
TD's - 37
INTS - 8
Completion % - 72.1
Yards per game - 329.7

Outdoors -
Games - 5
TD's - 9
INT's - 6
Completion % - 69.5
Yards per game - 369.8

Make of them what you will, pretty much level in terms of performance and yards. Only difference is the ratio of TD's - INT's outdoors which bodes well for a defence like the 49ers. Of course, it probably would've been better looking at a bigger array of games over the past few seasons (read somewhere Brees is 0-4 in outdoor playoff games). Does anyone read into the importance of these matters?

Well I do because I need something to cling to

His YPG and completion % are off the charts.

jimjimjimmy · 11-01-2012 04:02AM

Shocked by the amount of people that are giving the 49ers a chance. This Saints offense is the greatest of all time, broke all kinds of records this season and continued to do so last weekend. Sure the 49ers have a good defense but no better than the Texans, Giants or Falcons when they played the Saints and none of these could stop the Saints. Saints will score 30+ points, can't see the 49ers offense scoring that much.

kmart6 · 11-01-2012 04:20AM

jimjimjimmy wrote: »

This Saints offense is the greatest of all time.

No it's not! Your basing that on numbers and the fact Bress got the passing record this year! It's a pass friendly league now, and can't be used to compare with teams from decades ago!

jimjimjimmy · 11-01-2012 05:20AM

kmart6 wrote: »

No it's not! Your basing that on numbers and the fact Bress got the passing record this year! It's a pass friendly league now, and can't be used to compare with teams from decades ago!

Not just the passing stats, the Saints have a very good rushing offense to go with the greatest passing offense of all time. So many weapons on the offense too, while you might not think it now, after the Super Bowl this offense will be viewed as the greatest of all time. I'm not the only one saying it in fariness, watch Sportscenter, NFL Network or listen to some podcasts and there are a few pundits who are putting them up there as the greatest of all time, which a Super Bowl crown will confirm.

mikemac1 · 11-01-2012 05:32AM

jimjimjimmy wrote: »

the Saints have the greatest passing offense of all time.

That is a huge claim to make

And if means anything Saints scored 547 points this year and were outscored by 589 by the Patriots four years ago

And that's outside for home games and no division games in a dome. And Foxboro is not known for a pristine field

And even then there are different eras in the NFL so racking up massive scores now takes advantage of rules that were not there decades ago

watch Sportscenter, NFL Network or listen to some podcasts

The media attach labels to everything and then hype them up. Touting something as the best ever gets better rating then lets watch this average offense in San Francisco
If the Saints were not in the playoffs they would be hyping up some other team

The only thing we can all agree on is the Ravens had the greatest defense of all time when they won Superbowl XXXV :pac:

jimjimjimmy · 11-01-2012 05:40AM

I forgot to even mention the Saints Offensive line, which is arguably the best in the league with 3 pro-bowlers on it, definitely the best guard combo in the league.

Pherekydes · 11-01-2012 08:22AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

That is a huge claim to make

And if means anything Saints scored 547 points this year and were outscored by 589 by the Patriots four years ago

And they were outscored this year, too. Another team scored more passing TDs and more offensive TDs.

Another outdoor team.

adrian522 · 11-01-2012 11:34AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

And they were outscored this year, too. Another team scored more passing TDs and more offensive TDs.

Another outdoor team.

Can't imagine the greatest offense of all time getting beaten by this years Rams and Buccs.

jimjimjimmy · 11-01-2012 12:45PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Can't imagine the greatest offense of all time getting beaten by this years Rams and Buccs.

Scored 21 and 20 in those games, it's not just the Offense that plays. Rams only scored more than 21 points in 2 games all season(Saints and other one against the 49ers), so that loss is on the Defense.

Bucs was a divisional game, anything can happen in those, which is part of what makes the NFL special.

By your reckoning the greatest offense of all time is the one that didn't lose a single game, so '72 Dolphins eh?

To those quoting offensive points scored, you know those include special teams and defensive scores, it's total points for the team not just offense.

Pherekydes · 11-01-2012 01:34PM

jimjimjimmy wrote: »

To those quoting offensive points scored, you know those include special teams and defensive scores, it's total points for the team not just offense.

The Packers scored 63 offensive TDs, i.e. 51 passing TDs and 12 rushing TDs. That 51 tied the All-time NFL record for passing TDs. On top of that, the Packers broke an NFL record which stood from 1971, when the Cowboys scored 42 or more points five times. The Packers scored 42 or more 6 times.

P.S. The Dolphins only won 17 games in one season. The Bears, 49ers and the Patriots have won 18 games in a single season. The Pack are on course to tie this record.

adrian522 · 11-01-2012 01:43PM

jimjimjimmy wrote: »

Scored 21 and 20 in those games, it's not just the Offense that plays. Rams only scored more than 21 points in 2 games all season(Saints and other one against the 49ers), so that loss is on the Defense.

Bucs was a divisional game, anything can happen in those, which is part of what makes the NFL special.

By your reckoning the greatest offense of all time is the one that didn't lose a single game, so '72 Dolphins eh?

To those quoting offensive points scored, you know those include special teams and defensive scores, it's total points for the team not just offense.

They are still 2 of the worst teams in the league. And no I don't think the Dolphins in 72 had the best offense.I also don't know how you read that into what I said.

Jolly Red Giant · 11-01-2012 04:24PM

adrian522 wrote: »

They are still 2 of the worst teams in the league. And no I don't think the Dolphins in 72 had the best offense.I also don't know how you read that into what I said.

In my opinion (for what its worth) the best offence in the NFL was Bill Walsh's WCO with the 49'ers with Montana, Rice and Craig 1988 & 1989 (Seifert's SB win was all based on Walsh's work).

Catherine Power · 11-01-2012 05:03PM

Anyone fancy Giants against the Packers.

Remember when they won in '07 they started every play off game as outsiders and were 4/1 to win the Superbowl. !!!!!!:eek:

jimjimjimmy · 11-01-2012 05:08PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

The Packers scored 63 offensive TDs, i.e. 51 passing TDs and 12 rushing TDs. That 51 tied the All-time NFL record for passing TDs. On top of that, the Packers broke an NFL record which stood from 1971, when the Cowboys scored 42 or more points five times. The Packers scored 42 or more 6 times.

The Saints had 62 TD's, only one less whilst breaking records in a lot of other areas.

adrian522 wrote: »

They are still 2 of the worst teams in the league. And no I don't think the Dolphins in 72 had the best offense.I also don't know how you read that into what I said.

I didn't, I was exaggerating to emphasise that it's not only the offense that wins or loses games, there are other components to it. That just because the team lost doesn't mean the offense cannot still be considered the greatest of all time.

Also, surprised that none of you even consider this Saints offense to be one of the best, it's not an unsubstantiated claim. You guys are shooting down as if I was making this claim about the Broncos offense. This Saints offense had one of the best offensive seasons of all time.

adrian522 · 11-01-2012 05:36PM

jimjimjimmy wrote: »

The Saints had 62 TD's, only one less whilst breaking records in a lot of other areas.

I didn't, I was exaggerating to emphasise that it's not only the offense that wins or loses games, there are other components to it. That just because the team lost doesn't mean the offense cannot still be considered the greatest of all time.

Also, surprised that none of you even consider this Saints offense to be one of the best, it's not an unsubstantiated claim. You guys are shooting down as if I was making this claim about the Broncos offense. This Saints offense had one of the best offensive seasons of all time.

I'm happy enough with the 'one of the' pre-fix. I have a problem with the 'best of all time' After all they haven't won anything yet this year.

To my earlier point I would expect the greatest offense of all time to be able to put up a lot more points on St. Louis. That's not to say the defeat was all on the offense but they obviously didn't put up enough points to win the game.

In my time watching the sport the best I've seen are the Rams of 99-01 in 2000 they were amazing even though they lost Warner for 5 games (I think).

Flattery · 11-01-2012 05:50PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Well what are your thoughts on the divisional round games

Saints(-3.5) @ 49ers

I'm really looking forward to this one. This the 49ers biggest game in a decade and it couldn't be tougher. Having said all that I can see this being close and I'm confident the 49ers will play well and limit the Saints offence.

The 49ers will need to put pressure on Brees through Aldon smith, and shut down the Saints running game. They'll also need a few takeaways but I think all this is possible. On offense they will have to run the ball well and convert in the red zone and even if they do all this it still might not be good enough.

The last time these 2 played the Saints won the game with a FG as time expired. This one could go right down to the final drive as well. It's probably wishful thinking but I can see the niners taking this. Something like 23-21

Broncos(+13.5) @ Patriots

Surely a bridge too far for Tebow and co. NE hammered Denver 1 month ago and I don't think too much has changed in the interim. Denver may cover the spread but no way I can see them beating New England. Patriots by 10.

Texans(+7.5) @ Ravens

I think the ravens are going to the super bowl, they are unbeaten at home and have a great defence and a great running game. The Texans may have a chance with a fully fit roster but they really stumbled into the play-offs, they'll put up a good show but ravens to advance.Baltimore by 7.

Giants(+7.5) @ Packers

I really think the giants are the last team the packers wanted to see in this game. I think it will be close and the giants on the handicap is a great bet. Eli has had a great season and that will need to continue. They will need to get their running game going and keep Rodgers and co on the sideline. In the end I think even if the Giants play well the packers will find a way to win. I think it will be close but Green Bay by 3.

Yes, I tend to agree with everything you say here, with the exception of your wishful thinking re the 49ers, though for me (as for the bookies) it is the most likely of the games to yield an upset. Really looking forward to seeing if the 49ers can hold Brees and co in check, but I just cannot see them outscoring the recently rampant Saints - a great array of receivers plus options in the back field - still, this is the divisional game I am looking forward to the most.

Elsewhere, NY to push Green Bay closer than expected, but the Pack to progress.

Pats to overcome Denver readily enough.

Agree that it seems Baltimore are Super Bowl-bound.

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