Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Legalise and tax soft drugs

1235713

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭EUSSR


    Most drugs should be legal. I mean if I can buy drain cleaner and drink that, why should a grown adult not be allowed buy illicit substances? Properly regulated, it would bring in quite alot of indirect taxation for the Government, moving the activity away from illegal criminal gangs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    Radio Presenter: Hello, we have Mary here from Athlone. She is 59 years of age. She has some views on the use of drugs in her family. Hello Mary.

    Mary: Hello Tom.

    Radio Presenter: I understand your youngest son Jason, who is 23, is taking some cannabis at the moment. Tell me a bit about this please.

    Mary: *shudders* Tom......he becomes a different man when he is on it. I see him after he takes the stuff and he gets almost knocked out from it.....he looks like a zombie...*shudders*...Dear Lord what can I do?

    Radio Presenter: I understand your husband drinks a fair bit...

    *Mary interrupts*

    Mary: Ah sure it's only a small bit, a bit of drink does harm to no-one. Sure it makes you sleep well.

    Radio Presenter: I understand he drinks a bottle of Whiskey a day. He has often drove him drunk and causes scenes at home.

    Mary: Ah sure that's alright. He might drink a little bit over the limit but that's alright. He supports the local economy. Meanwhile my youngest son Jason...*shudders*....he comes down the stairs and look like a zombie...we need to ban this evil stuff. IT WILL DESTROY OUR COMMUNITY TOM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    This was written in the Irish medical Times yesterday, strong words indeed from a professional dr . Some of his comments are absolutely ridiculous Imo.

    Dr Ruairi Hanley
    writes that for the sake of our young people’s mental health, drug use must remain stigmatised and should never be legalised in Ireland.


    Regular readers of this column will be unsurprised to learn that I have never had any time for marijuana. Like anyone who attended an Irish university in the last 40 years, I was aware during my college years of the existence of a few long-term cannabis users. I freely admit I regarded these people as a bunch of brain-dead, attention-seeking idiots suffering from a chronic aversion to personal hygiene.
    Unfortunately, these clowns usually attracted a cult following of guitar-strumming, arty types whose idea of a fun weekend was to stand outside Brown Thomas screaming abuse at customers intending to buy fur coats.
    Another interesting feature of the male section of this half-witted species was their apparent inability to use a razor on a regular basis.
    In fact, I cannot recall ever meeting a clean-shaven pothead. This is an approach to grooming they appear to share with trade union officials and borderline communist politicians.
    To be fair, and with a few pathetic exceptions, I would say that medical students were among the least likely to regularly partake of illegal drugs while in third-level education.
    For this reason, they were largely mocked by other, more ‘hip’ undergraduates as a bunch of boring nerds who were unwelcome in the various fashionable ‘societies’ where Celtic Tiger cubs went to play. No doubt the cool gang are still laughing from the higher moral ground of the dole queue today.
    In favour
    I was reminded of my college days recently when I learned that the Californian Medical Association has argued in favour of the legislation of marijuana in that state. While I recognise that medical professionals from that part of the world are infinitely more trendy that their Irish counterparts, I fail to see how this position makes any sense.
    Recent research has shown a rise in the use of particularly potent forms of cannabis in Ireland. Already, doctors are seeing the disastrous effect this is having on the mental health of much of our population.
    At this point, I believe anyone who argues that marijuana is a completely harmless drug is basically either in complete denial or is trying to justify their own illegal behaviour.
    While there may be some argument in favour of the medicinal use of this drug in a limited number of patients, I feel this hardly constitutes grounds for allowing every vulnerable young person to legally get high.
    Of course, there are those who would argue that criminalising illegal drugs is an unsuccessful policy, regardless of the medical issues involved. Legalising and taxing these products would reduce crime and provide extra revenue for the State.
    Indeed, publications such as The Economist magazine have been urging this reform for decades. I freely admit that such an idea has its attractions. The idea of some Irish potheads actually paying tax for the first time in their lives is certainly appealing. Savings would also be made in law enforcement via the reduction in organised crime.
    Massive rise
    However, I strongly suspect that any such revenue would be largely wiped out in the cost to the State of dealing with the massive rise in mental health problems that would inevitably follow as a result.
    I am afraid the only way to deal with illegal drugs is to stop people from taking them in the first place.
    This must be achieved by making young people recognise that those who use these products regularly are not admirable, they are instead typically dysfunctional underachievers, many of whom have nothing to look forward to except long-term unemployment and welfare dependency.
    Excessively judgmental
    Unfortunately, I fear those involved in our anti-drugs campaigns find such an approach to be excessively ‘judgmental’ and thus prefer to describe all ‘addicts’ as sufferers of ‘diseases’ rather than vulnerable individuals who tragically succumbed to peer pressure amid difficult social circumstances.
    I fully accept that helping those who have already fallen victim to the lure of illegal highs is essential. It should be a core aim of any civilised nation to assist addicts so that they can once again contribute to society and enjoy a higher standard of health and living. Drug treatment programmes, if successful and clinically proven to work, have a vital role to play and should be fully supported by all professionals.
    Tolerant attitude
    However, I would contend that such an approach must not be undermined by a permissive and excessively tolerant attitude towards those youths who are contemplating starting their own drug habit out of some warped sense of respect for those already using illegal substances.
    Regardless of left-wing political ideology and middle-class guilt, I believe the only hope for many young people is to ensure that drug use remains stigmatised and never legalised. January 6, 2012, Irish medical Times.http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2012/01/making-a-hash-of-our-health-system.html&ct=gas card=CAcQAhgBIAAoATAAOABAzZSc-ARIAVgBYgVlbi1JRQ&cd=XJGgYXpaOO4&usg=AFQjCNHCE35lXjH3P1yivvubh_b1zoT50Q

    Think the doctor needs a joint himself to chill out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    I am not impressed at all by smooth rhetoric . Marlborough Man with a joint .
    There are many sights on the streets of American Cities to make us wonder about popular anything ..Can anything in the popular Domain be truly good at all.? Even a can of cola ? Is there an intrinsic evil in everything popular ?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I am not impressed at all by smooth rhetoric . Marlborough Man with a joint .
    There are many sights on the streets of American Cities to make us wonder about popular anything ..Can anything in the popular Domain be truly good at all.? Even a can of cola ? Is there an intrinsic evil in everything popular ?

    America has the strictest drug laws in the western world. Therefore the scenes in American cities is yet another argument against your position.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    I will readily concede a good argument to support legalising drug . I have'nt seen or heard it yet .And legalising alcohol after prohibition only took the CRIMINAL element out ...nothing more .Utah is a great State to live in... not perfect . Safer and better than any other part of the united states ..UTAH is the Dry State ..no booze ..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I will readily concede a good argument to support legalising drug . I have'nt seen or heard it yet .And legalising alcohol after prohibition only took the CRIMINAL element out ...nothing more .Utah is a great State to live in... not perfect . Safer and better than any other part of the united states ..

    No you will not. Time and time again in this thread it has been shown that decriminalisation has improved the situation in Holland and Portugal. Despite this you continue to ignore it and offer nonsense scenarios based on nothing but your own wild imagination. Of the 22 posts you have made in this thread so far, you have not once given any FACTUAL evidence to support your position and you have not refuted one single point made in this thread.

    As the situation stands I cannot find one social or economic indicator that has gotten worse under decriminalisation. If your position is so correct then try and refute that statement, it should be simple.

    Also what the hell does Utah have to do with anything? This study shows that Utah is only the sixth most peaceful state in 2011 which contradicts whatever point you're trying to make. This little table also gives a breakdown by state of crime rates and it isn't first in any category.

    Better is an entirely subjective term, so you will have to inform us what criteria you used to come to that conclusion, so that you can be refuted yet again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .

    All my closest friends are dead...Here I am posting for drugs to be legalised....
    Your only trying to prey on peoples emotions here as your incapable of understanding anyone else's opinions beside the drivel you are posting yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    paddy andy wrote: »
    Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .


    What a drama ridden load of postcrap is the above :confused: You haven't made a single post on your side of the debate here that is making any sort of valid opinion,I don't smoke anything nor drink alcohol but by cheeses your posts are blown my mind.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The financial implications are irrelevant to my position on this - my body is my body, it's nobody else's feckin' business what I choose to do with it or not. Same for consensual prostitution, gay marriage, and just about every other 'social' issue where 'victimless crime' is involved.

    The law exists to protect our rights, nobody's rights are violated when everyone involved in something knowingly consents to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    To add: The long rant above is so full of stereotypes I would assume it came from The Onion. Faith in humanity is once again shaken.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    To add: The long rant above is so full of stereotypes I would assume it came from The Onion. Faith in humanity is once again shaken.







    Your assuming wrong it came from Dr RUAIRI HANLEY, Irish Medical Times, printed yesterday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I will readily concede a good argument to support legalising drug

    you never will unless you take your hands away from your ears and stop chanting nahnahnanhanahanahan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    realies wrote: »
    Dr Ruairi Hanley

    writes that for the sake of our young people’s mental health, drug use must remain stigmatised and should never be legalised in Ireland.

    What a plonker.

    Just goes to show than having a licence to practice medicine does not ensure any sense of objectivity when considering complex social issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    A medical Practitioner would likeiy have a better medical understanding with access to other schools of thought than many of the Posters here .


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    The financial implications are irrelevant to my position on this - my body is my body, it's nobody else's feckin' business what I choose to do with it or not. Same for consensual prostitution, gay marriage, and just about every other 'social' issue where 'victimless crime' is involved.

    The law exists to protect our rights, nobody's rights are violated when everyone involved in something knowingly consents to it.

    Who pays all the rehab and medical expenses for all this ?????
    Everybody pays...so it is everybodys business .!!!!!
    There is ALWAYS A VICTIM in this case THE TAXPAYER !!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Who pays all the rehab and medical expenses for all this ?????

    Firstly you're confusing drug abuse with drug use.

    Secondly, people pay for their own health through taxes and insurance.
    Everybody pays...so it is everybodys business .!!!!!
    There is ALWAYS A VICTIM in this case THE TAXPAYER !!!!!!

    Billions upon billions of dollars worth of wealth has been squandered trying to 'win' the drug war.

    That is far more costly to the tax-payer than decriminalisation would be.

    In the US alone...
    After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals

    MEXICO CITY (AP) — After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.
    Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.
    "In the grand scheme, it has not been successful," Kerlikowske told The Associated Press. "Forty years later, the concern about drugs and drug problems is, if anything, magnified, intensified."

    Source.

    You just keep flogging that dead horse though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭orangebud


    no way im making to much money i don't want the government to tax me


  • Advertisement
  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Chuck ...Dead as it is'nt you'd smoke it anyhow, anyway and anytime .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    paddyandy wrote: »
    A medical Practitioner would likeiy have a better medical understanding with access to other schools of thought than many of the Posters here .

    And yet all that Dr. Hanley did in his article was call people names and not produce a shred of evidence to support his position. He kind of reminds of somebody...
    Who pays all the rehab and medical expenses for all this ?????

    At the moment it's the taxpayer. You haven't given us any reason to believe that if drugs are legalised they will end up paying more. Also if drugs are legalised, dealers will pay income tax and drug users will pay VAT meaning there is more money to deal with these problems.
    Everybody pays...so it is everybodys business .!!!!!

    Does that give you the right to decide what people eat for dinner then? If they have a bad diet it'll end up costing you money.
    There is ALWAYS A VICTIM in this case THE TAXPAYER !!!!!!

    Yes the taxpayer is a victim. The taxpayer has to fork out big money for a police force that can't catch violent criminals because it is using all it's resources trying to catch drug users which also bogs down the court system. The taxpayer also has to pay for medical care for people that are injured gangland feuds. Feuds which would not occur if the Government wasn't subsidising gangs to such an extent that they have to kill people. The taxpayer pays for people that took drugs chopped up with God only knows what because these drugs can't be regulated by the free and open market.

    No matter what way you cut it the taxpayer pays no matter what the situation. The fact is that the taxpayer pays much more when drugs are illegal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭n900guy


    paddyandy wrote: »
    A medical Practitioner would likeiy have a better medical understanding with access to other schools of thought than many of the Posters here .

    If he was a psychiatrist he would but he's just a GP so has likely no training at all in mental health, not to mind mental health of kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    paddyandy wrote: »
    A medical Practitioner would likeiy have a better medical understanding with access to other schools of thought than many of the Posters here .

    California's largest association of doctors urges legalization of marijuana

    http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2011/10/californias-largest-association-of-doctors-urges-legalization-of-marijuana.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Chuck ...Dead as it is'nt you'd smoke it anyhow, anyway and anytime .

    What now? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,256 ✭✭✭eire4


    personally I do not nor have I any interest in smoking pot or any other illegal drugs. I don't smoke tobacco either. Guinness is my preferred drug of choice which I drink in moderation.
    But I have long been totally in favour of legalization of Marijuana. Firstly you cannot ban drug use effectively. It just does not work. I think the way to aproach dugs is to regulate them in a manner where the potential harm they can do to individuals and to society in general is contained as much as possible. I think making Marijuana legal could provide much needed and significant tax revenue. It could also provide much needed jobs both in terms of manufacturing and in terms of stores being set up which would specialize in selling the product. Now I do not imagine this would be a massive job maker but it would help and getting some people back into work provides more spending power in the economy and less strain on government resources. Then for me there is the shift in resources and manpower to more productive work we could also have with our Gardai.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    I'd like to believe all that talk about tax and regulating the industry but i feel a sombre kind of humour coming over me .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Oddjob wrote: »
    Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

    Drugs exist solely alter to your mind, if they didn't, you wouldn't buy them.

    Tax revenue would be negligible.

    Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

    Do you really want tourists coming here to live on €6 a day to get wasted?

    What businesses would be created?
    mattjack wrote: »
    Norn Ireland,Republic of Ireland and er..? Is there three ?
    Oddjob wrote: »
    Christ, more children. Nobody wants tourists spending €6 a day falling around the streets, They contribute nothing to the local economy, they spend no money.
    paddyandy wrote: »
    They do nothing for the economy and use up a lot of precious resources .
    Normal tourist trade would stop arriving with our towns full of scruffy dopes .
    paddyandy wrote: »
    EVER TRY TO GET A DRUG ADDICT TO PAY FOR ANYTHNG ???????
    paddyandy wrote: »
    These are early days....time will out .Massive problems and demands on services on the way...
    paddyandy wrote: »
    The Drug Business is here i can read that familiar line ..They have their own way of revealing themselves . Like a scratchin' under the floor boards.ie . The peculiar droppings on the thread ...little beads of low life wisdom...
    Nothing like very long posts to confuse with a good sprinkling of vague stats.
    paddyandy wrote: »
    If a nation cannot deal with alcohol ...and we have very serious problems here.... are we to believe that we can deal with legalising soft drugs ? There is a different kind of 'wild man' full of dope and he's rarely predictable .A drunk is much easier to handle .Life will get much more difficult for many families who have problems enough as it is . Sinn Fein's voice is noticeably absent on the matter of drugs . Interestingly they never have anything to say that i've heard .
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Different problems but this is a 'Gate' drug and sooner or later something new is tried ......but there should be a facility for sick people . Pot does effect work place behaviour . Accidents at home and small children or babies being dropped and consequently brain damaged .People driving cars and using gadgets etc.......You can't expect good sense from any drug user .
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Your arguments are mostly SMOKE and i have better things to do than waste my time here .You simply don't have enough maturity for any argument .
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Defiler : There are people who benefit in bad storms and it's a great time .You have a dismissive attitude typical shinner .

    I've seen some silly posting and trolling in my time, but THIS!! This is inane waffle.
    If these are the arguments against legalising soft drugs, then it's plainly obvious to any sensible person that there are NO arguments against.

    Anyone who still believes the government is acting in your best interests, just watch a few on the many videos explaining WHY the simple weed plant has been declared illegal.

    In late 2011, Danish authorities legalized marijuana and it was announced that cannabis cafes could soon open in Copenhagen.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_coffee_shop

    Denmark? Everyone knows that country is in the toilet. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    realies wrote: »
    This was written in the Irish medical Times yesterday, strong words indeed from a professional dr . Some of his comments are absolutely ridiculous Imo.

    Dr Ruairi Hanley
    bunch of brain-dead, attention-seeking idiots suffering from a chronic aversion to personal hygiene.
    Unfortunately, these clowns usually attracted a cult following of guitar-strumming, arty types whose idea of a fun weekend was to stand outside Brown Thomas screaming abuse at customers intending to buy fur coats.

    Another interesting feature of the male section of this half-witted species was their apparent inability to use a razor on a regular basis.
    In fact, I cannot recall ever meeting a clean-shaven pothead. This is an approach to grooming they appear to share with trade union officials and borderline communist politicians.
    No doubt the cool gang are still laughing from the higher moral ground of the dole queue today.

    This must be achieved by making young people recognise that those who use these products regularly are not admirable, they are instead typically dysfunctional underachievers, many of whom have nothing to look forward to except long-term unemployment and welfare dependency.

    Think the doctor needs a joint himself to chill out.

    What has fur coats got to do with anything? I think some of us would have more problems with fur coats than some weed. Well, I suppose the weed was 'killed' too. :rolleyes:

    This guy is is fairly young I believe. He must have had some awful childhood. There is venom in his text. He believes that 'everyone' who ever smokes weed is filthy, scruffy and on the dole. What a stupid thing to say.

    He must have the bedside manner of Stalin.

    How is he allowed troll a medical publication?

    Samelessly stolen from here:
    http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2012/01/making-a-hash-of-our-health-system.html

    “In fact, I cannot recall ever meeting a clean-shaven pothead.”

    You’ve surely met far more than you imagine, dozens if not hundreds. However potheads have the ability to determine who is cool and who is not cool. Since you aren’t cool potheads won’t reveal themselves to you.

    “No doubt the cool gang are still laughing from the higher moral ground of the dole queue today.”

    You’d be shocked at how many successful people toke. Millionaires, billionaires, everyone smokes these days.

    “I am afraid the only way to deal with illegal drugs is to stop people from taking them in the first place.”

    Um, you might prevent one out of a million from using drugs at best. I am familiar with exactly one case of drug prevention in the United States where a woman ordered painkillers online for her pain for the first time and she got busted for it. Never read of another case in which anyone was ever prevented from using drugs.

    http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/01/irish_doctor_smoking_marijuana_leads_to_beards.php


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,256 ✭✭✭eire4


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I'd like to believe all that talk about tax and regulating the industry but i feel a sombre kind of humour coming over me .


    I do not think anybody is suggesting that there would be such a massive tax stream from Marijuana that it would be some kind of panacea for our current economic troubles. But facts are Marijuana is going to be used by many in Ireland and the sooner we stop allowing criminals to soak up all the money and leave society in general to deal with the problems the better. Making Marijuana legal and regulating it as we do with alcohol and tobacoo will not leave the revenue coffers overflowing with tax money but it can help and it is a crime to my mind that we are not taking advantage of this revenue stream and dealing with the issue of this drug in a more positive and realistic fashion.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement
Advertisement