NFL Playoffs Thread

Stev_o · 09-01-2012 01:54PM

Tbh the Steelers defence is way way over rated. Their only stand out performance in 2011 was in beating the Patriots. Otherwise they'v shut down the might of the Colts,Jags,Cards,Browns .....

Onecoolcookie · 09-01-2012 04:22PM

Absolutely devastated by the Falcons performance against the Giants, I've had a while to reflect on it but still can't quite get my head around how badly we were beaten. The opening exchanges were quite even and we had the chance to go ahead with a field goal but Mike Smith yet again went for it on 4th and short. For a team with such a strong running game it's amazing how bad they were on short yardage. Fair play to the Giants though, their season has really come together in the last few weeks and their running game had major success. Comparisons can be drawn between the Green Bay team of last year and this seasons G-men and their matchup should be very close

Jolly Red Giant · 09-01-2012 04:22PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh the Steelers defence is way way over rated.

Don't tell that to the people who live by stats

Stev_o · 09-01-2012 04:33PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Don't tell that to the people who live by stats

But but but american football is 100% stat based! I don't think anyone could actually say that the Steelers were the single best defence this season, like I said they have only one note worthy game against the Patriots.

eagle eye · 09-01-2012 04:57PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh the Steelers defence is way way over rated. Their only stand out performance in 2011 was in beating the Patriots. Otherwise they'v shut down the might of the Colts,Jags,Cards,Browns .....

Ok the very first line of this post is completely ridiculous. You go on to try and prove your point by saying their schedule meant they didn't meet many big teams but that doesn't prove anything. Over the last couple of years when their schedule was more difficult they did it most of the time against the better teams. They did it this year too but didn't have a tough schedule, all you can say is they weren't tested as much this season. You can't call them overrated though as they have done it season after season and that includes this season.

Stev_o · 09-01-2012 05:03PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Ok the very first line of this post is completely ridiculous. You go on to try and prove your point by saying their schedule meant they didn't meet many big teams but that doesn't prove anything. Over the last couple of years when their schedule was more difficult they did it most of the time against the better teams. They did it this year too but didn't have a tough schedule, all you can say is they weren't tested as much this season. You can't call them overrated though as they have done it season after season and that includes this season.

What are you on about? You know how defence is ranked ? It's ranked each year separately, I couldn't give a **** what they did last year as it has no bearing on what they'v done this year which is be completely and utterly over rated by playing awful teams. They are completely over rated as a defensive group.

dfx- · 09-01-2012 05:15PM

kmart6 wrote: »

A TD that Thomas deserves all the credit for! The throw was a pretty standard one, especially if he's to be considered an NFL QB! He showed great speed and strength, but why Taylor was on him I'll never know, he was having a terrible night, it was obvious the Steelers missed Ryan Clark tonight, shame he had to sit out, but it's only a game so no point risking your health, Tomlin made the right call there!

Why was there no safety behind to sweep up? I'm getting back into American football, but I would've thought that mistake was more the reason behind the touchdown than any throw or QB..

Johnny_Fontane · 09-01-2012 05:21PM

because it was a blown blitz. steelers safety made a mistake, they thought Tebow was gonna run the play.

It was a great throw by Tebow and a super catch and stiff arm to create separation.

Hulk Hands · 09-01-2012 05:24PM

A quick question for anyone following the sport for the last decade or so (maybe EE or someone).

Drew Brees is a bit different from the other elite QB's in that from what ive heard he was fairly average in his first 5 years or so in the league with the Chargers. Comapre that to the likes of Manning who was always excellent, Brady who despite being a low draft choice had success from when he gained the starter job, as well as Rodgers who was excellent when he finally gained the role.

What i'm asking is, how good (or average) was Brees during those days with the Chargers, and could you possibly put him on a similar level then to someone playing now? Like, would it be similar to someone like Matt Schaub becoming elite in 5/6 years?

eagle eye · 09-01-2012 05:41PM

Stev_o wrote: »

What are you on about? You know how defence is ranked ? It's ranked each year separately, I couldn't give a **** what they did last year as it has no bearing on what they'v done this year which is be completely and utterly over rated by playing awful teams. They are completely over rated as a defensive group.

Obviously you are competely missing the point. They are not overrated based on what the did accomplish this year.

And then if you are a football fan for a couple of years you know they did it even when they had a tough schedule so there is nothing to suggest they are any worse. How on earth you can come up with a ridiculous statement that they are overrated with nothing to back it up is beyond me.

You don't have this years regular season to prove your point and you can't point to previous years to back up your point.

You don't have stats to back it up from this year or previous years, and even if you don't go by stats you have nothing to back it up either.

namloc1980 · 09-01-2012 06:58PM

Can't remember the last time that the Steelers secondary got blown apart for so many big plays down the field in a game. Great to see it though

Pherekydes · 09-01-2012 07:04PM

Saturday, Jan. 14
NFC: New Orleans Saints at San Francisco 49ers, 4:30 p.m, ET (FOX)
Saints to squeeze by for me, perhaps by less than 4. A Niners' win would not be a major shock.

AFC: Denver Broncos at New England Patriots, 8 p.m. ET (CBS)
Patriots will produce a big performance from the Brady bunch, while keeping TT quiet. Pats by 14+.

Sunday, Jan. 15
AFC: Houston Texans at Baltimore Ravens, 1 p.m. ET (CBS)
Ravens D will frustrate Yates, while pounding the ball. A hard-fought game, with the Texans' D keeping them in it for most of it. Ravens pull away to win by 10.

NFC: New York Giants at Green Bay Packers, 4:30 p.m. ET (FOX)
Packers' opportunistic D will force turnovers, while Rodgers will have all his toys to play with. This Packers' D is a Championship D, and I expect them to rise to the occasion. In Rodgers' only play-off loss, he threw for 423 yds and 4 TDs. This game does not resemble the '07 NFC championship game. Packers by 14+.

Jolly Red Giant · 09-01-2012 07:13PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

A quick question for anyone following the sport for the last decade or so (maybe EE or someone).

Drew Brees is a bit different from the other elite QB's in that from what ive heard he was fairly average in his first 5 years or so in the league with the Chargers. Comapre that to the likes of Manning who was always excellent, Brady who despite being a low draft choice had success from when he gained the starter job, as well as Rodgers who was excellent when he finally gained the role.

What i'm asking is, how good (or average) was Brees during those days with the Chargers, and could you possibly put him on a similar level then to someone playing now? Like, would it be similar to someone like Matt Schaub becoming elite in 5/6 years?

Brees was always a good QB. He was the Chergers starting QB and went to the pro-bowl in 2004. The Chargers tagged him after getting Rivers and paid him €8million in 2005. He walked in 2006 because the Chargers wouldn't pay him as they had committed huge money to Rivers.

Occasionally QB's do develop after some time - the most obvious Kurt Warner who was an undrafted and Steve Young who was very ordinary for the first five years of his career. Tebow is probably the QB closest to where these two were at and has a long way to be even a competent NFL QB. Most starting QBs are taken early in the draft (first 3 rounds) and either, sit behind a very QB to learn, produce pretty quick or are busts.

Stev_o · 09-01-2012 07:47PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Obviously you are competely missing the point. They are not overrated based on what the did accomplish this year.

And then if you are a football fan for a couple of years you know they did it even when they had a tough schedule so there is nothing to suggest they are any worse. How on earth you can come up with a ridiculous statement that they are overrated with nothing to back it up is beyond me.

You don't have this years regular season to prove your point and you can't point to previous years to back up your point.

You don't have stats to back it up from this year or previous years, and even if you don't go by stats you have nothing to back it up either.

They were the number one ranked defence in the league this year when it was clear that they weren't they just played some of the worst teams in the league. This is generally how being overrated works, your given a title that you don't deserve, understand?

I just love how you'v tried to morph my statement into some sh*t about last year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

^ Toughest schedule in the league im sure. Mean come on almost losing to the Colts with Curtis Painter damn thank god their defence is number 1 in the league.

Chucky the tree · 09-01-2012 07:50PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Shows how little you know about the game kmart

The reason that Tebow was successful with the deep throws was that the Steelers had no choice but to respect the read-option running game by packing the line of scimmage to stop it, leaving the CB's in one-on-one coverage with the WR's. Once the WR got a step on the CB and Tebow delivered the ball, the plays were always going to go for big yardage. If the Steelers had kept the safeties back to help the CB's then the Broncos would have just pounded the ball up the middle and eaten up all the clock.

This is the Broncos offence with Tebow at QB simple and easy to run and, when executed properly, very hard to stop.

Explain how the Broncos only put up 3 points in the second half then? The reason Tebow was successful was because they left Ike Taylor one on one and he made some horrendous errors. You don't need your safeties up in the box to respect the read option. Steelers showed in the second half it's pretty easy shutting down Tebow, once you take out the deep ball he's pretty much useless as a passer.

Red Crow · 09-01-2012 07:56PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

NFC: New York Giants at Green Bay Packers, 4:30 p.m. ET (FOX)
Packers' opportunistic D will force turnovers, while Rodgers will have all his toys to play with. This Packers' D is a Championship D, and I expect them to rise to the occasion. In Rodgers' only play-off loss, he threw for 423 yds and 4 TDs. This game does not resemble the '07 NFC championship game. Packers by 14+.

Delusion of the highest order. Championship defense?

Pure cockiness.

Got your hotel in Indianapolis yet?

eagle eye · 09-01-2012 08:28PM

Stev_o wrote: »

They were the number one ranked defence in the league this year when it was clear that they weren't they just played some of the worst teams in the league. This is generally how being overrated works, your given a title that you don't deserve, understand?

I just love how you'v tried to morph my statement into some sh*t about last year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

^ Toughest schedule in the league im sure. Mean come on almost losing to the Colts with Curtis Painter damn thank god their defence is number 1 in the league.

Again you have missed the point. Statisically they were no.1 this year and just looking at them play they looked it on most occasions. They've been one of the top defenses in the league for quite a while so its nothing new.

What I said is that you have no basis to call them overrated.

matthew8 · 09-01-2012 08:35PM

Whether or not the Steelers defense is overrated is questionable, but the reason they were bad against Denver was because they had many injuries and the best remaining players didn't perform. Their defensive line was massively depleted, and star LBs Harrison and Woodley couldn't get to Tebow, while quality FS Clark wasn't there to stop the deep ball and quality CB Ike Taylor didn't show up. None of the issues present against Denver were present in the regular season.

Chucky the tree · 09-01-2012 08:43PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Again you have missed the point. Statisically they were no.1 this year and just looking at them play they looked it on most occasions. They've been one of the top defenses in the league for quite a while so its nothing new.

What I said is that you have no basis to call them overrated.

Why not? Only 3 of their 12 wins this year came against teams with a winning record, not exactly brilliant. Stats aren't te be all and end all and don't tell the full picture all of the time.

eagle eye · 09-01-2012 08:55PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Why not? Only 3 of their 12 wins this year came against teams with a winning record, not exactly brilliant. Stats aren't te be all and end all and don't tell the full picture all of the time.

Yeah but no team put more than 20 points on the board against them except Baltimore on two occasions, the opening weekend where they gave up 35 points and the second time they met where the Ravens scored 23. The Patriots only managed to score 17 points against them which was their lowest score of the season.

Tell me this, how many teams attained their season scoring average against them? Anymore than 3 would shock me.

matthew8 · 09-01-2012 09:18PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Tell me this, how many teams attained their season scoring average against them? Anymore than 3 would shock me.

You got it right. 3. However, they don't get enough turnovers. 1 defensive TD scored this year off 14 turnovers. The other 2 best defenses are the Ravens and 49ers. The 49ers scored one defensive TD, but got a whopping 38 turnovers. The Ravens have 26 turnovers and 4 defensive TDs, 3 of which came in a game that they won single-handedly against the jets.

Chucky the tree · 09-01-2012 09:24PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah but no team put more than 20 points on the board against them except Baltimore on two occasions, the opening weekend where they gave up 35 points and the second time they met where the Ravens scored 23. The Patriots only managed to score 17 points against them which was their lowest score of the season.

Tell me this, how many teams attained their season scoring average against them? Anymore than 3 would shock me.

49ers, cardinals and Colts all put scored 20 points against them. Cards, Ravens and Colts are the 3 teams who did better than their scoring average. I'm not saying they are a bad defense, they are definitly up towards the top of the pile and this is the reason they kept the likes of the Bengals, titans, and Browns just below their scoring average but I don't think because they are number 1 in stats means it's not possible to come up with valid reasons as to why they might not actually be the very best defense.

kmart6 · 09-01-2012 09:27PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Shows how little you know about the game kmart

The reason that Tebow was successful with the deep throws was that the Steelers had no choice but to respect the read-option running game by packing the line of scimmage to stop it, leaving the CB's in one-on-one coverage with the WR's. Once the WR got a step on the CB and Tebow delivered the ball, the plays were always going to go for big yardage. If the Steelers had kept the safeties back to help the CB's then the Broncos would have just pounded the ball up the middle and eaten up all the clock.

This is the Broncos offence with Tebow at QB simple and easy to run and, when executed properly, very hard to stop.

As opposed to your expert opinion yeah?

Apart from Royals TD, every other long pass play had a good bit of YAC...actually around half of Tebows yards were YAC so this notion of deep throws is just bull!

It is not hard to stop, he showed on the 3 games to end the season he wasn't able to execute it at all...yet makes half his completions last night and people seem to forget all that! Steelers were missing their best corner which really didn't help, and as I've pointed put countless Taylor had his worst performance of the season...all that played into the Broncos hands!

Even with one of the worst defences in the league in the Patriots I feel they're not going to have as much as a problem as the Steelers had last night! Couple that with an actual mobile QB who is fully fit can't see anything other than the Patriots cruising it!

dfx- wrote: »

Why was there no safety behind to sweep up? I'm getting back into American football, but I would've thought that mistake was more the reason behind the touchdown than any throw or QB..

Yeah that was a huge mistake on the Steelers part! Makes me wonder did they know if the Broncos scored on the first play it was over, if they knew it you'd expect them to have left someone sitting back to cover it, mind boggles really!

kmart6 · 09-01-2012 10:29PM

At least Taylor agrees with me!

ProFootballTalk wrote:

Steelers cornerback Ike Taylor, who was repeatedly burned by Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas in Sunday night’s loss, has offered an apology.

Taylor wrote on Twitter after the game that he was sorry for the way he had played.

“First off congrats too tebow and the broncos,” Taylor wrote. “Second I apologize for playing the worst game at the wrong time apologize to my teammates steelernation and family. Luv y’all to def.”

A frustrated Taylor reportedly damaged his locker in the visitors’ locker room at Invesco Field at Mile High Stadium after the game. He did not speak to the media.

poldebruin · 09-01-2012 11:01PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

because it was a blown blitz. steelers safety made a mistake, they thought Tebow was gonna run the play.

It was a great throw by Tebow and a super catch and stiff arm to create separation.

from my recollection this was neither a mistake nor a blown blitz, but a called defence. The Broncos had run 21 times out of 22 on first down for the game. They also motioned one of their wr in towards the line, which is also an indicator of run form them. The Steelers players saw this and adjusted accordingly pre-snap, leaving their cb one on one with thomas with no safety help - they were not anticipating Denver to throw.

Jolly Red Giant · 09-01-2012 11:04PM

kmart6 wrote: »

Apart from Royals TD, every other long pass play had a good bit of YAC...actually around half of Tebows yards were YAC so this notion of deep throws is just bull!

Six of the ten passes Tebow completed were to WR that had got behind the CB - the actual distance of the pass is irrelevent.

kmart6 wrote: »

It is not hard to stop, he showed on the 3 games to end the season he wasn't able to execute it at all...

Tebow has won 8 and lost 4 games this season - you can look at the last three games if your want but the season is longer than that - and the loss again NE was his best passing performance outside of last night.

kmart6 wrote: »

yet makes half his completions last night and people seem to forget all that! Steelers were missing their best corner which really didn't help, and as I've pointed put countless Taylor had his worst performance of the season...all that played into the Broncos hands!

Is Tebow a competent NFL QB as is expected today - no - of course not - but his has taken a team that started 1-4 and were awful into the second game of the play-offs playing the way he plays best.

kmart6 wrote: »

Even with one of the worst defences in the league in the Patriots I feel they're not going to have as much as a problem as the Steelers had last night! Couple that with an actual mobile QB who is fully fit can't see anything other than the Patriots cruising it!

We shall see - the Broncos stayed with NE through the game except for the 2nd quarter which has been a problem all season except for last night.

kmart6 wrote: »

Yeah that was a huge mistake on the Steelers part! Makes me wonder did they know if the Broncos scored on the first play it was over, if they knew it you'd expect them to have left someone sitting back to cover it, mind boggles really!

Dick LeBeau used the correct defence for the read-option all game - the Broncos executed, Pittsburgh did not - end of.

poldebruin · 09-01-2012 11:10PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

A quick question for anyone following the sport for the last decade or so (maybe EE or someone).

Drew Brees is a bit different from the other elite QB's in that from what ive heard he was fairly average in his first 5 years or so in the league with the Chargers. Comapre that to the likes of Manning who was always excellent, Brady who despite being a low draft choice had success from when he gained the starter job, as well as Rodgers who was excellent when he finally gained the role.

What i'm asking is, how good (or average) was Brees during those days with the Chargers, and could you possibly put him on a similar level then to someone playing now? Like, would it be similar to someone like Matt Schaub becoming elite in 5/6 years?

I remember Brees as being above average (not elite level) with the Chargers. The year they drafted Rivers, he'd had a good year, but tore his shoulder up in the season finale against Denver trying to recover a fumble after a strip sack. I suppose the writing was on the wall for him in SD anyway, but this confirmed it, even after the year he had. The reconstructive surgery on his shoulder was the reason the Miami Dolphins chose Dante Culpepper over him - Brees went to NO and the rest is history!!

To find a player whose career path might follow a similar trajectory?? - Maybe look for a young, highly accurate passer, who may be in a system that is not pass oriented. Maybe a Matt Ryan or Andy Dalton

poldebruin · 09-01-2012 11:28PM

kmart6 wrote: »

Apart from Royals TD, every other long pass play had a good bit of YAC...actually around half of Tebows yards were YAC so this notion of deep throws is just bull!

This is just getting ridiculous - anyone that watches football could see Denver were taking shots deep, YAC or not is totally irrelevant.

kmart6 wrote: »

It is not hard to stop, he showed on the 3 games to end the season he wasn't able to execute it at all...yet makes half his completions last night and people seem to forget all that!

I think the point that was being made is that when executed properly, it will prove difficult to defend. There is no doubt nor argument that Denver didn't execute for the last 3 games of the season.

Regarding Tebow's completion %. In this type of offence, there aren't high percentage passes that substitute for runs as there are in the many WCO that are run around the league. Instead, Denver run when they want to run. And when they try to pass, it is normally in the intermediate to deep end of the scale. Al Davis was a huge proponent of this type of offence (not option), believing that you win by running the ball, stretching the field vertically by attempting low % (high reward) deep passes, and solid D.

kmart6 wrote: »

Steelers were missing their best corner which really didn't help, and as I've pointed put countless Taylor had his worst performance of the season...all that played into the Broncos hands!

I knew i would read this on the forum today - that the Steelers weren't that good at all, they had injuries, they are old, they played poorly etc. They were ranked no.1 statistically D in the NFL, possibly not the actual best Defense, but they are no slouches and everybody was predicting that they would crush Denver. It didn't work out that way, and were it not for a blown call on the lateral Denver would have been out of sight of Pittsburgh. Denver should have beaten them far more comprehensively than the final score suggested.

kmart6 wrote: »

Yeah that was a huge mistake on the Steelers part! Makes me wonder did they know if the Broncos scored on the first play it was over, if they knew it you'd expect them to have left someone sitting back to cover it, mind boggles really!

I'm sure they knew, and Dick LeBeau's D was set up to be aggressive and to bottle up the run. If they leave someone back, maybe Tebow checks into a run and Denver drive up the field?

Hulk Hands · 09-01-2012 11:54PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Delusion of the highest order. Championship defense?

Pure cockiness.

Got your hotel in Indianapolis yet?

In fairness, the Packers are general 8/9 points favourites so it's hardly cockiness to think they will win by 14.

Their defense was a championship defense last year, so it's not like it's impossible they'll step up. And part of the reason the Packers have been so good this year is the amount of turnovers that D has created. People get caught up in Points/yards allowed but forget how many points that D has scored and how many short fields they've given Rodgers.

Morrisseeee · 10-01-2012 12:26AM

Well I've just watched the highlights again, and I'm 'pumped'..........again :pac:

chucky the tree wrote:

it's pretty easy shutting down Tebow, once you take out the deep ball he's pretty much useless as a passer

kmart6 wrote:

..........Apart from Royals TD.......
..........It is not hard to stop.............

LOL

It was a great game, a hard fought game, it had some great plays, ups & downs, controversy, and an unexpected finish. I think this game will be a 'breakout' game for us, a game where we gelled as a team, ie. offense, defense, special teams, play calling, and if we play as well next week I can see us giving the mighty Patriots a scare ! The last time we played, we had a brill 1st Q, mostly running, Tim's passing was still a bit iffy at this stage, so.........if we bring both deep threats & running next week, and NO turnovers, then this game will be close.

One thing I'm concerned about is the 6 day turnaround, will it be an advantage to us or them, will momentum and the fact that we were in a big/close game be more beneficial to us, or will a fresh Patriots kill off a tired Broncos.

Back to the game, the breakout 'play' was 3rd & 12 in the 2nd Q and a big conversion to Thomas. It had been 2nd & 12 when Decker (Tebow's fav) got the ball but then got hockeyed by Harisson. Then to rub salt in the wounds, the play is reviewed & called an incomplete pass. It really was 'sh1t or bust' at this stage. This was Tebow's moment, he had to convert here, or goodness knows what would have happened !! He stepped up, made the play, and the rest is history.

Then 2 plays later, a bomb to Royal (Gay covering, ie. not Taylor), right on the numbers. He later had a great play & pass to Fells, again 'inch' perfect (Taylor not involved). He had 2 throws on the numbers (near the end zone) and they were dropped. He led some good drives, 2 for FG's, and was on another near the end when McGahee fumbled (just).
The Steelers hadn't allowed a 100yd receiver all season, Thomas had double that, is it fair to blame Taylor, and also credit him for the loss !! no, I don't think so, who's to know if Thomas would have done the same to any opponent last night.

The Defense were very good last night, all game, I thought any gains or points the Steelers got were hard fought, and also they had to eat alot of time off the clock, which was to our advantage. Some highlights, 5 sacks on big Ben, Bailey almost intercepting in the end zone, Carter playing well !, those 4 plays near the end, Miller's tackle, Dooomerville's hand causing the fumble, Bailey's tip on the pass, Ayers sack (5 man rush) that sealed OT.
The O line was brilliant aswell, giving Tim loads of time to make decisions.
Where can we go from here, who knows, we certainly put the pieces of the jigsaw together last night, hopefully we can be consistent and play as well next Saturday.

/hits rewind, (reminds oneself that we're playing the no. 1 ranked D, the current AFC champs, recent SB winners), watches that OT play again, agh yes, get in there

NFL Playoffs Thread

Comments