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what qualifies phd students to correct papers?

24

Comments

  • #32
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    What a fantastic point!

    It is as good as yours isn't it? :rolleyes:


  • #33
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    Still sounds like the lecturer is trying to lessen his/her workload to me.
    Lecturers have a boatload of work to do, the Ph.D students job is to help them. This includes taking tutorials, supervising labs and correcting work. If students have reason to think they've been correctly badly they can take it up with the lecturer in question.

    I'm surprised some people think this is an issue.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #34
    Markx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Markx


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    It's called laziness based on what lecturers are paid.

    And can you tell me how much that is please?


  • #35
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    Lecturers have a boatload of work to do, the Ph.D students job is to help them. This includes taking tutorials, supervising labs and correcting work. If students have reason to think they've been correctly badly they can take it up with the lecturer in question.

    I'm surprised some people think this is an issue.

    It is the PhD student's job to help them? I thought it was the PhD student's job to gain a doctorate in their chosen field of study. Doing the lecturer's job for them now is helping them gain their doctorate?


  • #36
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    Markx wrote: »
    And can you tell me how much that is please?

    Laziness is rife these days.


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  • #37
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    It is as good as yours isn't it? :rolleyes:

    Not really my dear,

    phd's vary a lot, but part of the job is to give tutorials, invigilate exams and mark exam papers, essays, etc.

    Saying its beacause universities are lazy is silly.


  • #38
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    It is the PhD student's job to help them? I thought it was the PhD student's job to gain a doctorate in their chosen field of study. Doing the lecturer's job for them now is helping them gain their doctorate?
    In DCU it certainly is the case yes, it's part of their responsibility to the university. I don't know about other fields, but in science, lecturers simply don't have the time to correct every paper as well as giving lectures, setting exams and doing research, the last of which is valuable to the university.

    I'm a fourth year student and I've gotten to know a good few Ph.D. students, several of whom will have corrected my work. They are more than capable of correcting it.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #39
    cassid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭cassid


    Grade min.max.PointsNotept.1pt.2pt.3pt.4pt.5pt.6pt.7pt.8pt.9pt.10pt.11pt.12pt.13pt.14 President : 193,843 Director : 145,952 Senior Lecturer 3 Scale : 82,014104,770982,01484,80487,59690,38993,18095,97198,973101,787104,770 Senior Lecturer 2 Scale : 76,40797,5201076,40778,73281,05183,37585,70188,02190,34192,66694,98497,520 Senior Lecturer 1 [Teaching] Scale : 74,00691,021874,00676,44178,86681,30783,73486,16088,59891,021 2 x LSILecturer Grade (also Lecturer 2 + LSI) : 53,60783,8111153,60756,12165,88968,11870,35172,59474,84877,08679,32281,57083,811 2 x 2284

    I think in fairness some lecturers get really well paid for working much less than the average employee and also bearing in mind if they are wholetime/permanent that paid during months for the summer and all the semester breaks during the year.


  • #40
    cassid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭cassid


    :D that came out a bit odd- sorry.


  • #41
    SeaFields
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    I was also a tutor for 3 years. Only corrected first year work in the general degree area and second year work in the area that I was researching. A meeting took place before every essay due date with the lecturers concerned where it was discussed what was necessary to gain the marks. If I was going to fail an essay I had to go to the lecturer first to explain why.

    Never had a student ask me to review their marking but made it clear that I was willing to do so on any occasion. Did have a student question me on my ability to correct after I accused them of plagiarism. Just produced the paper they lifted the content from in the presence of the head of the department- simples !


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  • #42
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    cassid wrote: »
    if they are wholetime/permanent that paid during months for the summer and all the semester breaks during the year.
    Once again I only know from what I've experienced, but lecturers work the whole summer and in between semesters.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #43
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,697 ✭✭✭elefant


    I study English Literature too, and I think I have always received the grade I deserved. English essays aren't, to state the obvious, just about the way you write, but about what you write and how you back up what you write. A PhD student would easily be able to tell the difference between a 40 (mediocre) paper and a 70 (excellent) paper. In fact, I'd go as far as to say most honour-level final year undergrads would be able to do this with relative ease.

    Something tells me you're pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction on this one.


  • #44
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    In DCU it certainly is the case yes, it's part of their responsibility to the university. I don't know about other fields, but in science, lecturers simply don't have the time to correct every paper as well as giving lectures, setting exams and doing research, the last of which is valuable to the university.

    I'm a fourth year student and I've gotten to know a good few Ph.D. students, several of whom will have corrected my work. They are more than capable of correcting it.

    I'm not really questioning whether they are capable of correcting it. I guess my issue with it is an ethical one - first off the PhD student is there to study not to examine another student's work in my opinion.

    Secondly the lecturer's job is to lecture - give out the information as if they are an authority on it - so I think therefore they should be the ones to examine the student's response in terms of what they write on the subject in their exams.

    I don't think it's fair on either the student or the PhD student who is probably under pressure themselves to expect them to correct exam papers.

    Others have commented here that it would be too much work for a single lecturer to correct all exam papers but I do find it hard to accept that someone who is at the university to study is expected to pick up the slack for lecturers.


  • #45
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    cassid wrote: »
    Grade min.max.PointsNotept.1pt.2pt.3pt.4pt.5pt.6pt.7pt.8pt.9pt.10pt.11pt.12pt.13pt.14 President : 193,843 Director : 145,952 Senior Lecturer 3 Scale : 82,014104,770982,01484,80487,59690,38993,18095,97198,973101,787104,770 Senior Lecturer 2 Scale : 76,40797,5201076,40778,73281,05183,37585,70188,02190,34192,66694,98497,520 Senior Lecturer 1 [Teaching] Scale : 74,00691,021874,00676,44178,86681,30783,73486,16088,59891,021 2 x LSILecturer Grade (also Lecturer 2 + LSI) : 53,60783,8111153,60756,12165,88968,11870,35172,59474,84877,08679,32281,57083,811 2 x 2284
    I disagree completely.


  • #46
    hi_im_fil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭hi_im_fil


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    I'm not really questioning whether they are capable of correcting it. I guess my issue with it is an ethical one - first off the PhD student is there to study not to examine another student's work in my opinion.

    Secondly the lecturer's job is to lecture - give out the information as if they are an authority on it - so I think therefore they should be the ones to examine the student's response in terms of what they write on the subject in their exams.

    I don't think it's fair on either the student or the PhD student who is probably under pressure themselves to expect them to correct exam papers.

    Others have commented here that it would be too much work for a single lecturer to correct all exam papers but I do find it hard to accept that someone who is at the university to study is expected to pick up the slack for lecturers.

    Many PhD students get paid to do tutorials and correct assignments, its not just as if they are picking up slack for a lazy lecturer.


  • #47
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,510 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    cassid wrote: »

    I think in fairness some lecturers get really well paid for working much less than the average employee and also bearing in mind if they are wholetime/permanent that paid during months for the summer and all the semester breaks during the year.

    Lecturers aren't just lecturers- they are also expected to conduct their own research, write books/ academic papers and present at international conferences. Many are also expected to write funding applications to bring money into their universities. Most lecturers/ researchers at university level get the usual amount of holidays as everyone else- it's not like secondary school teaching.


  • #48
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    Secondly the lecturer's job is to lecture - give out the information as if they are an authority on it - so I think therefore they should be the ones to examine the student's response in terms of what they write on the subject in their exams.
    A lecturers job is a hell of a lot more then just to lecture. They do research as well as writing and reviewing papers. As mentioned in the thread, lecturers keep up to date on how students are progressing through the tutors, so it's hardly like they are ignoring them.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #49
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    hi_im_fil wrote: »
    Many PhD students get paid to do tutorials and correct assignments, its not just as if they are picking up slack for a lazy lecturer.

    I don't have any problem with PhD students doing tutorials or generic assignments but I think lecturers should correct exam papers. I guess I can keep dreaming. Clearly if you aren't in their actual lectures you can forget about any attention being paid to your work.


  • #50
    hi_im_fil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭hi_im_fil


    Does it really matter who corrects the exams as long as you have the correct answers/approach/methodology?


  • #51
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    They are very well versed in the discipline and familiar with what's good quality and what isn't. Seems sufficient qualification to me. Plus it's valuable experience for them. The OP wouldn't be complaining if the same people were giving them marks they were happy with.


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  • #52
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    Dudess wrote: »
    They are very well versed in the discipline and familiar with what's good quality and what isn't. Seems sufficient qualification to me. Plus it's valuable experience for them. The OP wouldn't be complaining if the same people were giving them marks they were happy with.

    How very cynical of you :)


  • #53
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,510 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    It's hardly cynical. I'd wager it's the truth. Who's going to complain about getting good marks?


  • #54
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Arianna_26 wrote: »
    How very cynical of you :)
    Not exactly ill-founded given the OP's attitude!


  • #55
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Best lecturer I had was a Phd student. Admittedly he was over 40 and had many years industry experience between his Masters and the time he took up the lecturing / starting the Phd, but he was a class act. Could speak indefinitely and off the cuff on practically any subject that fell under his area of expertise. So he was more than qualified to correct any exam he set me.

    I've also had Phd Student / lecturers who were in their mid to late 20's, never out of college and seemed to be fairly clueless on anything that wasnt in the book they had in front of them.

    As with all things, it depends on the person.


  • #56
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    Dudess wrote: »
    Not exactly ill-founded given the OP's attitude!

    Indeed, that's fair.


  • #57
    revell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭revell


    because they are cheap labour!


  • #58
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    SeaFields wrote: »

    Never had a student ask me to review their marking but made it clear that I was willing to do so on any occasion. Did have a student question me on my ability to correct after I accused them of plagiarism. Just produced the paper they lifted the content from in the presence of the head of the department- simples !

    I've never personally had a complaint, but from talking to others it seems pretty much par for the course that the majority of complaints come from two general camps of students. Those who believe they are a genius unrecognised, and who resent anyone but the head of the department being allowed an opinion on their work, and the less able students who don't necessarily realise that they are less able.

    I only mark first year work, and I'm given strict guidelines and have to justify any fail to a panel and all grades to the lecturer.


  • #59
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    Giselle wrote: »
    I've never personally had a complaint, but from talking to others it seems pretty much par for the course that the majority of complaints come from two general camps of students. Those who believe they are a genius unrecognised, and who resent anyone but the head of the department being allowed an opinion on their work, and the less able students who don't necessarily realise that they are less able.

    I only mark first year work, and I'm given strict guidelines and have to justify any fail to a panel and all grades to the lecturer.

    That's good.


  • #60
    SeaFields
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    Giselle wrote: »
    I've never personally had a complaint, but from talking to others it seems pretty much par for the course that the majority of complaints come from two general camps of students. Those who believe they are a genius unrecognised, and who resent anyone but the head of the department being allowed an opinion on their work, and the less able students who don't necessarily realise that they are less able.

    I only mark first year work, and I'm given strict guidelines and have to justify any fail to a panel and all grades to the lecturer.

    Completely agree. Any first year work I marked was generally average too. I'd end up with a vast majority of high C, low B's essays each time. No matter how well you know the material, it takes practice to be able to write an academic essay. By the end of the year some students got it, others stayed in the leaving cert mode of regurgitation.

    Loved my time at it. Funding was cut so had to move on to....retail! But still tho, made some good friends with my students and still meet them for a drink every now and again.


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  • #61
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    slum dog wrote: »
    dont all lecturers require phds?

    No I have taught in a good few colleges and uni's, I only have a MA at the moment. I have taught on some post-grad courses, so it is not all under-grad lectures.

    Now it is only a side line to my clinical work, I would not give that up to teach. However, you don't need any teaching qualifications to lecture at third level.

    I know lots of lecturers would do not hold a PhD.


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