Legalise and tax soft drugs

grumpymunster · 06-01-2012 02:59PM

Sadly the last time I saw 50 was on a door therefore I am not a teenager. I have never taken drugs in my life despite drinking and having the odd cigar bit of a contradiction in terms there I agree.

That being said I can see only merit in at least legalising cannibis, despite having not ever smoking weed I have been to Amsterdam many times (work not red lights before I am accussed of that) hotels are expensive and very full, restaurants are not too expensive but always busy, pubs always busy there. Those making childish arguments regarding no benefit to the economy should really get out more. The war on drugs has been long since lost and those that think it can be won have their heads in the sand, it is better to have them legal and controlled as opposed to illegal and uncontrolled. It is the later and not the former that leads to anarchy. How many murders in Ireland every year are attributed to drugs gangs / wars the vast majority I would hazard a guess.

We will never be in the forefront of anything as progressive as this we are as a society too sheepish. We are run as a nanny state and we accept it laying down - this is sad but true I am afraid.

At a minimum we should look at cannibis and prostitution (not called the oldest profession in the world for no reason) but we wont until there is a pan European / American agreement (not in my lifetime) and by then we will have missed the economic benefit boat.

paddyandy · 06-01-2012 03:02PM

Very poor rhetoric rooney .You need to INSPECT my tune correctly .I never said alcohol does not cause damage ...everybody knows it does .Adding Legalised so called "soft drugs" will not solve anything and create many new problems .I wonder would you remember that what you post here will be accessible for a very long time in the future .Be more careful your relatives in the distant future might not like your ideas. That goes for all the others .

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 03:09PM

paddyandy wrote: »

EVER TRY TO GET A DRUG ADDICT TO PAY FOR ANYTHNG ???????

Drug addicts who dont pay for their drugs are called drug dealers. Not one ligitimate anti-legalisation arguement anywhere on here. Are you all so unintelligent that yu cant make one? NOOOOO, You're just wrong and its becoming an embarassment now.

Jagle · 06-01-2012 03:15PM

GarIT wrote: »

The government is clearly trying to eventually make smoking tobacco illegal. Soon there will be a ban on smoking near entrances to public buildings, then smoking in public, then just smoking. I don't see them making it illegal to smoke one thing and at the same time legal to smoke another.

well the simple argument to this is that smoking cigarettes kills millions globally every year, while cannabis does nothing but strengthen the body to fight against cancer, repair lung damaged lung cells, and you get wrecked to boot

Suryavarman · 06-01-2012 03:17PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Very poor rhetoric rooney .You need to INSPECT my tune correctly .I never said alcohol does not cause damage ...everybody knows it does .Adding Legalised so called "soft drugs" will not solve anything and create many new problems .I wonder would you remember that what you post here will be accessible for a very long time in the future .Be more careful your relatives in the distant future might not like your ideas. That goes for all the others .

What new problems will legalising drugs create? Why won't legalising them solve ANYTHING?

Also the space goes after a full stop, not before it.

paddyandy · 06-01-2012 03:22PM

Many of the Names of the Posters on this Thread have very strong suggestions of people whose heads are stuck in the Dismal Dark & Gungy Sub-Cultures .Stygian ...."hence loathed melancholy of cerebrus and blackest midnight born in stygian cave forlorn among horrid shapes and shrieks and sights unholy ....find out some uncouth cell where brooding darkness spreads it's jealous wings and the night raven sings.....You probably like it...it's your future home possibly? and he never had a song in the charts eh . My punctuation is all you you can fault Runai ?

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 03:24PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Very poor rhetoric rooney .You need to INSPECT my tune correctly .I never said alcohol does not cause damage ...everybody knows it does .Adding Legalised so called "soft drugs" will not solve anything and create many new problems .I wonder would you remember that what you post here will be accessible for a very long time in the future .Be more careful your relatives in the distant future might not like your ideas. That goes for all the others .

My god, this is easier than shooting fish in a barrel. My distant future relatives? A heroin addict who took up crack for the craic would be embarassed by that statement! However, if you tell me that you're drunk now, I will believe you and apologiise for my ignorance. I'm not worried about my future relatives reading my posts. The future inevitability of legalising drugs should have you worried about people you know in the present seeing how small minded and petty you are. There will not be any signifigant increase in the amount of drug users in Ireland when drugs are legaised.

Ash.J.Williams · 06-01-2012 03:25PM

To be honest Ireland has gone home grown crazy, it's silly to ignore it. At the very least it should be legal to grow and share. It's shame that criminals are making money from grow houses. What's the harm in having a plant or two at home.

paddyandy · 06-01-2012 03:27PM

Rubbish Rooney .

I am pie · 06-01-2012 03:32PM

I've no strong opinions on plants at home for personal use, but i would hate to see coffee shops opening up. We'd be ravaged by stag do's all over again, it would be temple bar in the 90s times a thousand ! All those wrecked scousers, scallys and cockneys puking up in the streets and causing havoc as they weren't used to smoking the strong stuff and knocking back a rake of pints.

Disaster, dunno how the Dutch put up with it in Amsterdam.

Ash.J.Williams · 06-01-2012 03:34PM

I am pie wrote: »

I've no strong opinions on plants at home for personal use, but i would hate to see coffee shops opening up. We'd be ravaged by stag do's all over again, it would be temple bar in the 90s times a thousand ! All those wrecked scousers, scallys and cockneys puking up in the streets and causing havoc as they weren't used to smoking the strong stuff and knocking back a rake of 10 pints.

Disaster, dunno how the Dutch put up with it in Amsterdam.

I agree. I just think weed smokers should be left alone. Home growing (personal stash) should be akin to brewing your own beer.

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 03:35PM

I genuinely feel sorry for you.

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 03:37PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Rubbish Rooney .

He was rubbish at newcastle the other night but I feel sorry for you...

grumpymunster · 06-01-2012 03:38PM

I am pie wrote: »

I've no strong opinions on plants at home for personal use, but i would hate to see coffee shops opening up. We'd be ravaged by stag do's all over again, it would be temple bar in the 90s times a thousand ! All those wrecked scousers, scallys and cockneys puking up in the streets and causing havoc as they weren't used to smoking the strong stuff and knocking back a rake of pints.

Disaster, dunno how the Dutch put up with it in Amsterdam.

Never experienced much if any of that in Amsterdam to be honest, obviously some but not much, if any, worse than other comparable sized cities.

I am pie · 06-01-2012 03:39PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I agree. I just think weed smokers should be left alone. Home growing (personal stash) should be akin to brewing your own beer.

To a certain limit of course, maybe max 2 plants. Not sure how that's going to much for the economy though.

I wouldn't be up for licensed sale as that would just encourage the weekend oiks, but a bit of home grown isn't going to be to destructive, however given that it wouldn't be particularly beneficial it probably isn't going to happen.

Jagle · 06-01-2012 03:42PM

I am pie wrote: »

To a certain limit of course, maybe max 2 plants. Not sure how that's going to much for the economy though.

I wouldn't be up for licensed sale as that would just encourage the weekend oiks, but a bit of home grown isn't going to be to destructive, however given that it wouldn't be particularly beneficial it probably isn't going to happen.

first off 2 plants is a very low limit, most american MMJ states have up to 12 plants for personal use, keeping in mind it takes 4 months to grow a plant 2 isnt alot of a daily smoker.

and there isnt a beneift? with an oz of weed costing from 350-500 depending on quality, thats alot of money gangs make, and alot of money people have to fork over to a black economy.

if anything allowing people to produce 12 plants for personal use would cut alot of daily smokers buying from gangs, cut gang profits and help people. as pure weed homegrown is alot better then crap weed sprayed with all sorts of chemical.

i love when people who are ignorant to a argument try to come across as knowledgeable on the subject

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 03:51PM

paddyandy wrote: »

The Drug Business is here i can read that familiar line ..They have their own way of revealing themselves . Like a scratchin' under the floor boards.ie . The peculiar droppings on the thread ...little beads of low life wisdom...
Nothing like very long posts to confuse with a good sprinkling of vague stats.

Nothing will show your superior wisdom better than a cheap shot at generalising the oppsite side as vermin. I'd prefer be a rat under the floorboards if the alternative was to be you.

I am pie · 06-01-2012 03:59PM

Jagle wrote: »

first off 2 plants is a very low limit, most american MMJ states have up to 12 plants for personal use, keeping in mind it takes 4 months to grow a plant 2 isnt alot of a daily smoker.

and there isnt a beneift? with an oz of weed costing from 350-500 depending on quality, thats alot of money gangs make, and alot of money people have to fork over to a black economy.

if anything allowing people to produce 12 plants for personal use would cut alot of daily smokers buying from gangs, cut gang profits and help people. as pure weed homegrown is alot better then crap weed sprayed with all sorts of chemical.

i love when people who are ignorant to a argument try to come across as knowledgeable on the subject

Wind your neck in champ, your po-faced outrage is entirely boring. I'm merely passing comment, as I've quite clearly said I'm not really that interested in anything other than not having coffee shops open around the place. I could care less what people do or grow in their own houses.

Keeps the likes of you indoors, subdued and generally not annoying the rest of us.

Jagle · 06-01-2012 04:01PM

I am pie wrote: »

Wind your neck in champ, your po-faced outrage is entirely boring. I'm merely passing comment, as I've quite clearly said I'm not really that interested in anything other than not having coffee shops open around the place. I could care less what people do or grow in their own houses.

Keeps the likes of you indoors, subdued and generally not annoying the rest of us.

really? haha youve no idea what im like, so go on keep talking bs about a subject you think your educated on.
your afraid of the coffee shop culture? you ever been to one? people like you are brilliant, keep up the good work

paddyandy · 06-01-2012 04:04PM

Rooney ; Your last post does not reflect the previous sentiment of "feeling sorry" for me .The brotherly tone was false ?

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 04:14PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Rooney ; Your last post does not reflect the previous sentiment of "feeling sorry" for me .The brotherly tone was false ?

Really? Did you manage to read between the lines? I have some advice for you Paddyandy. Perhaps intead of learning big words you should concentrate on the next step, learning how to put them together to make an arguement. And why do you need two names? Perhaps there's two conflicting personalities inside you? I thought that you were against legalising but maybe you're both on seperate sides? sure you cant possibly lose Paddy and Andy

06-01-2012 04:20PM

MOD COMMENT:
Please be advised that some of the posters on this thread are getting way too personal in their comments. Please focus on making meaningful contributions to the thread topic, and not each other.

amacachi · 06-01-2012 04:32PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Marijuana is the one they fear the most imo.

It's been shown to have a positive affect on all sorts of ailments and conditions. That makes it an enemy of the pharmaceutical corporations.

It could rival alcohol as a recreational drug. That makes it an enemy of the alcohol industry.

It could be grown out the back garden. The state would not be able to tax it.

The Gardai, legal people, prison officers, probation officers and customs officials would have less work to do.

It's amazing how many forces have a vested interest in keeping marijuana drugs illegal.

It's like everything else tbh. Huge amounts of, for example, US military equipment is made in prisons by people getting paid next to nothing. If drugs were legal where does all that labour come from?

A perfect non-drugs example in this country is the medical cards. They're mostly given to people on some kind of welfare payment so the 100 quid a year they wanted to get back could easily have been done by docking 2 quid a week off everyone. Instead they're making people pay back money which will mean a new little office getting set up guaranteeing half a dozen to a dozen jobs and a couple of promotions.

Everything is an excuse to constantly expand government whether things are going well or badly. Legalising drugs would decrease the size of government and that's not what government ever likes to do.

paddyandy · 06-01-2012 04:40PM

Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .

Suryavarman · 06-01-2012 04:42PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .

And keeping drugs illegal is going to solve this problem how?

amacachi · 06-01-2012 04:45PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .

All the lads in their 50s who my dad used to work with who've died over the last decade or so? Alcohol, every last one of them. Most of them weren't alcoholics either.

grumpymunster · 06-01-2012 04:58PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Take a walk around Any Cemetery in Ireland and look at the Recent Internments and look at the Ages and read the messages on wreaths left behind .See the Crying Relatives the hopeless silences written on peoples faces when a new grave has just been filled ...and when you have witnessed it ....come back and post .

Yet there are less deaths per capita from drug related causes in the Netherlands than there are in the US go figure?

The Internet Explorer · 06-01-2012 05:14PM

An interesting piece by Richard Branson. A very, very interesting piece indeed.

http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/time-to-end-the-war-on-drugs

Peanut · 06-01-2012 07:56PM

A unilateral broad decriminalisation in Ireland would overwhelm resources and attract more gangs here - that's just a fact of the laws in neighbouring countries.

The Portuguese approach would seem to be one of the best at the moment in terms of countering the damage that criminalising drug users has lead to.

It's not just Branson's opinion either, the former heads of MI5 and the Crown Prosection service are calling for a rethink:

The "war on drugs" has failed and should be abandoned in favour of evidence-based policies that treat addiction as a health problem

A significant obstacle to meaningful reform of drug laws in Europe is pressure from the US Government (DoJ "Speaking out" page). However I suspect that the influence of US drug-war interests will weaken over time as the evidence base for the effectiveness of more progressive approaches becomes more established.

Stercus Accidit · 06-01-2012 08:09PM

Here in San Francisco marijuana use is on a par with drinking, everyone does it and they are all yuppies, computer nerds, or run their own start-ups. Marijuana being illegal is ridiculous, I have seen it's normalization in a successful city among successful people and it is practically the same thing as drink as far as effect, potency and general use by society at weekends and evenings. In fact it is less harmful in many ways.
Marijuana is on a par with a couple of pints here in SF, is usually used socially and is used by normal successful people, you don't see that in Ireland due to it being illegal, so the stereotype is wasters using it. I know one guy who is 30, smokes regularly, and just quit his job to focus on his new startup business for which he is now seeking people to hire. All his friends that I know are in highly successful businesses that are experiencing growth and I guarantee at the weekend they have a few beers, and smoke a bowl. I don't know anyone in their 30's who doesn't smoke the same way they have a couple of beers, he is just one example. I've joined them many times and it makes a change from the alcoholism and fighting I see in Dublin every weekend.

Legalise and tax soft drugs

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