Legalise and tax soft drugs

Chuck Stone · 05-01-2012 07:25PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Ireland might totally collapse within a decade .A feral State is not impossible

CT forum >>>>>>>>>>>>>

While I would have some reservations about a unilateral move to relax drug laws I'm fully supportive of the complete legalization of all drugs.

In fact supporting prohibition is immoral.

Milton Friedman explains why supporting prohibition is immoral and makes everything worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

paddyandy · 05-01-2012 07:32PM

Back 50 years ago in Ireland we did not have a need or desire or want for artificial stimulants .. Because mostly we lived in safety .Today is different and people live very anxious lives because there is a dishonesty and viciousness now that hardly existed back then .If people have problems then there must be mechanisms for dealing with them .Those Mechanisms very often do not exist and Anxiety Flourishes .....People often have nobody to turn to . Drink and Drugs can only be temporary remedies until problems become much worse . Ireland needs a total Blitz with law and order among other things but the Lefties won't allow it because they have another agenda of their own and need the drugs playground for their conversion efforts .

RichieC · 05-01-2012 07:47PM

Oddjob wrote: »

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Eh, no. they are stopping because Christian democrats are in power. the move to stop "drug tourism" is an extremely unpopular move in Amsterdam. most people there know what side their bread is buttered.

Defiler Of The Coffin · 05-01-2012 08:09PM

The ignorant nonsense being spouted in this thread is shocking. Most people seem to simply accept that if a drug is illegal then it must be dangerous. Of course the law is infallible and makes perfect logical sense when it comes to classifying drugs based on their perceived threat, it isn't beholden to vested interests at all.

This is why we have the laughable situation where the most dangerous drug in society is legal (source) and drugs such as cannabis are not. Even heroin is less dangerous - remember it mainly causes harm to people because of the agents it is cut with and the sharing of needles.

There would be an economic benefit in legalising cannabis, not even counting the drug tourism. We wouldn't waste as much resources on policing the drug trade or prosecuting offenders and we would put the undesirables in society who profit so lucratively from cannabis out of business.

There would be other benefits to society, especially if people chose to smoke a few joints instead of drinking the pints but I think these go beyond the remit of this forum. However I must add that I feel it is simply unjust that someone can go to prison for growing cannabis at home or being in possession. Why should the state imprison someone for something they do to themselves of their own free will? It doesn't impact on anyone else, at least not to the extent where someone should be brought to court.

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

This quote gave me a good laugh. Do you honestly think people would drink alcohol if it didn't alter the consciousness?! And why shouldn't people 'enjoy' cannabis with whatever it is they are having?

paddyandy wrote: »

There is a different kind of 'wild man' full of dope and he's rarely predictable .A drunk is much easier to handle .

Utter nonsense. A drunk is easier to handle than a stoner? Never.

paddyandy wrote: »

Back 50 years ago in Ireland we did not have a need or desire or want for artificial stimulants

Are you serious? Are you saying people didn't drink alcohol 50 years ago?!

paddyandy wrote: »

.. Because mostly we lived in safety .Today is different and people live very anxious lives because there is a dishonesty and viciousness now that hardly existed back then .If people have problems then there must be mechanisms for dealing with them .Those Mechanisms very often do not exist and Anxiety Flourishes .....People often have nobody to turn to . Drink and Drugs can only be temporary remedy until problems become much worse . Ireland needs a total Blitz with law and order among other things but the Lefties won't allow it because they have another agenda of their own and need the drugs playground for their conversion efforts .

Now you are just rambling

paddyandy · 05-01-2012 08:15PM

Defiler : There are people who benefit in bad storms and it's a great time .You have a dismissive attitude typical shinner .

Chuck Stone · 05-01-2012 08:18PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Defiler : There are people who benefit in bad storms and it's a great time .You have a dismissive attitude typical shinner .

No offence to you but you're spouting utter nonsense.

Defiler Of The Coffin · 05-01-2012 08:19PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Defiler : There are people who benefit in bad storms and it's a great time .You have a dismissive attitude typical shinner .

You believe people who are in favour of legalising drugs are shinners?

paddyandy · 05-01-2012 08:21PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

No offence to you but you're spouting utter nonsense.

What sort of talk is that ?

Cork boy 55 · 05-01-2012 08:23PM

Soft and hard drugs should be defined by
(A)
How dependent and addictive they are to users
(B)
What potentail damaging they cause

This grapgh is a good way to display them
I would be in Favour of legalise the "yellow ones" and concertrate resoucres on the "red" ones.
note the x-axis Note: This is physical harm to the user NOT cost to society.

380px-Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence.svg_.png

380px-Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence.svg_.png

paddyandy · 05-01-2012 08:24PM

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

You believe people who are in favour of legalising drugs are shinners?

Anything to stay with late teens favour .They saw the scourge at all it's stages and did nothing at all in the last four decades .

Suryavarman · 05-01-2012 08:29PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Defiler : There are people who benefit in bad storms and it's a great time .You have a dismissive attitude typical shinner .

Are you at any stage try and respond to the arguments against your position? Throughout this thread you have constantly failed to back up your positions, predicted apocalyptic scenarios if drugs are legalised (the opposite of what has happened in Holland and Portugal) and when all else fails insulted posters. I think it's about time that you either stopped posting or made a decent argument in favour of keeping drugs that you don't like illegal.

paddyandy wrote: »

What sort of talk is that ?

It's no worse than some of the petty jibes you have thrown around in this thread.

Defiler Of The Coffin · 05-01-2012 08:35PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Anything to stay with late teens favour .They saw the scourge at all it's stages and did nothing at all in the last four decades .

Seeing as they were never in power what could they have done?

And I don't support Sinn Féin. So can we stop this nonsense now please.

Chuck Stone · 05-01-2012 08:43PM

paddyandy wrote: »

What sort of talk is that ?

You said...

There is a different kind of 'wild man' full of dope and he's rarely predictable .A drunk is much easier to handle .

Back 50 years ago in Ireland we did not have a need or desire or want for artificial stimulants

Ireland needs a total Blitz with law and order among other things but the Lefties won't allow it because they have another agenda of their own and need the drugs playground for their conversion efforts .

...and I stand by what I said i.e. that the above is utter nonsense.

paddyandy · 05-01-2012 08:44PM

They had plenty of local power and instead chose the side of patronising mischievous elements .The IRA did nothing about the Scourge and every election we remember that . My people were very heavily involved many decades ago and those old men were disgusted before they died .

Defiler Of The Coffin · 05-01-2012 08:50PM

paddyandy wrote: »

They had plenty of local power and instead chose the side of patronising mischievous elements .The IRA did nothing about the Scourge and every election we remember that . My people were very heavily involved many decades ago and those old men were disgusted before they died .

I just knew you were going in the direction of this! There's no use arguing that here man, it won't end well.

Chuck Stone · 05-01-2012 08:52PM

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Soft and hard drugs should be defined by
(A)
How dependent and addictive they are to users
(B)
What potentail damaging they cause

I would be in Favour of legalise the "yellow ones" and concertrate resoucres on the "red" ones.

That would be a good start but the problem is that it leaves a lucrative revenue stream for the drug gangs by leaving the most profitable drugs outside legality for the gang-filth to make a good living from.

Why not take the whole lot from them?

stringed theory · 05-01-2012 08:58PM

In the West, the idea of making certain drugs illegal, while allowing many others, has its origins in the United States of one hundred years ago. Opium alkaloids were associated with Chinese, marijuana with Mexicans and blacks. They had to be controlled. What we have today is the part of Prohibition that was never repealed,

It's always been a control issue, masquerading as Public Health. Practical arguments - the idea that legalization of marijuana would compel people to choose products with a lower THC content, for example - will never be entertained by those who believe that all social problems can be solved by an appropriate jail sentence.
If marijuana was made legal, my guess is we'd just tighten up on something else.

Sunnyisland · 05-01-2012 09:05PM

paddy andy wrote: »

They had plenty of local power and instead chose the side of patronising mischievous elements .The IRA did nothing about the Scourge and every election we remember that . My people were very heavily involved many decades ago and those old men were disgusted before they died .

FFs this thread is about whether Soft drugs should be made legal and help the economy in doing so and you are on a rant about the Provos & SF, If the war on drugs by the USA hasn't stopped them how would the above.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 05-01-2012 09:05PM

The primary reason cannabis is a gateway drug is that its being sold by the same people that sell other illegal drugs. Also once somebody smokes cannabis and realizes most of what they've heard about is untrue, they assume that similar lies are being pushed about other drugs.

I'm in favour of legalizing all drugs btw.

RichieC · 05-01-2012 09:07PM

realies wrote: »

FFs this thread is about whether Soft drugs should be made legal and help the economy in doing so and you are on a rant about the Provos & SF, If the war on drugs by the USA hasn't stopped them how would the above.

He's got nothing but closed minded low info opinions he got listening to Joe Duffy.

Don't expect too much.

Chuck Stone · 05-01-2012 09:08PM

stringed theory wrote: »

Practical arguments - the idea that legalization of marijuana would compel people to choose products with a lower THC content, for example - will never be entertained by those who believe that all social problems can be solved by an appropriate jail sentence.

Marijuana is the one they fear the most imo.

It's been shown to have a positive affect on all sorts of ailments and conditions. That makes it an enemy of the pharmaceutical corporations.

It could rival alcohol as a recreational drug. That makes it an enemy of the alcohol industry.

It could be grown out the back garden. The state would not be able to tax it.

The Gardai, legal people, prison officers, probation officers and customs officials would have less work to do.

It's amazing how many forces have a vested interest in keeping marijuana drugs illegal.

05-01-2012 09:12PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Different problems but this is a 'Gate' drug and sooner or later something new is tried ......but there should be a facility for sick people . Pot does effect work place behaviour . Accidents at home and small children or babies being dropped and consequently brain damaged .People driving cars and using gadgets etc.......You can't expect good sense from any drug user .

Dude can you PM the number of your dealer? All of your posts in this thread so far lead me to believe that you are actually smoking far better stuff than the rest of us.

zenno · 05-01-2012 09:23PM

It's a no-brainer. people are smoking cannabis every day and night because the demand for it is huge here in Ireland but the money is going to criminal sources and their activities so it would be better for the government to legalize it and use that money to help the economy but the government are afraid of the backlash from the people that don't want any drug legalized but alcohol is the worst drug besides heroin and alcohol is freely available which is crazy.

people are going to get cannabis either way or grow their own regardless so the people are not going to stop smoking it so it makes better sense to legalize it. with the backward governments we put in, they are braindead to this idea of legalization. legalize it but if anyone is caught smoking it in public then they can be charged and that will keep the other folks against it happy as they won't have to see people in public smoking it. just like drinking in a public place you can be charged.

like I said it's a no-brainer. it should be legalized asap and there is a large benefit to the economy as well from taxing it.

zenno · 05-01-2012 09:36PM

ROFLcopter wrote: »

Including an influx of scangers from all over the world, I think we've enough here thanks

Look what it would do for the tourist industry here. I see only benefits by legalizing it. there has never been 1 fatality from smoking cannabis, compare that to tobacco.

If there was a referendum put to the Irish people in regards to legalizing cannabis I know it would pass.

dearg lady · 05-01-2012 10:43PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Also once somebody smokes cannabis and realizes most of what they've heard about is untrue, they assume that similar lies are being pushed about other drugs

This bit is so very true. Which is why education and accurate information are so important. Of course there are some negatives to illegal highs, but the amount of inaccurate information out there is unreal!

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 01:43PM

doomed wrote: »

As long as everyone is not too stoned to go to the pub.

Excellent quote! This simple sentence, perfectly highlights the absolute lunacy of our current situation. Should, debating the issue online instigate an unlikely but absolutely neccesary full public debate, then the status quo could not and would not be able to remain. Should this take place then it must be combined with a comprehensive study of the effects of canibis on society. In my opinion, the study would show a hugely signifigant decrease in crime. To get a balanced and incisive report, a similar study on the effects of alcohol on society must also be undertaken on a comparrison basis. The result of such a process would absolutely destroy the notion that alcohol is okay but canibis is not. The focus of the debate would change dramatically. Alcohol being banned would become a far more relevent question. Legalising canibis would be a no-brainer, unless of course people chose to ban all recreational drugs. That almost unimaginable situation would in fact, be unfair to canibis users who have been criminalised by the state for over 30 years. If you think i'm wrong then i'd be happy to debate any arguement you have to support your position.

Blikes · 06-01-2012 02:07PM

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 02:08PM

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

Drugs exist solely alter to your mind, if they didn't, you wouldn't buy them.

Tax revenue would be negligible.

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Do you really want tourists coming here to live on €6 a day to get wasted?

What businesses would be created?

Your arguement is so laughable its almost unbelievable! Have you been to see your doctor recently? People should have to complete an IQ test to register here. I wish I had a joint before reading your incomprehendible ingorance. I almost feel sorry for having to point out to you, that alcohol, wait for it, is a mind altering drug! I also love your pop at the teenager arguement. Alas, the irony will probably be lost on you. Are you aware that most people dont need to leave their house to get canabis in Ireland? There are other attractions in Holland for sleazy tourists, heard of the red light district? I dont see us turning Dublin into a street shop brothel fest so I think the scummy tourists will still choose to go to Holland where they will be able to buy weed with almost the same ease as walking into a cafe. I'm still laughing at you by the way!

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 02:33PM

mathepac wrote: »

Interesting that two posters have mentioned "soft drugs" in their posts and neither has responded to the invitation to define "soft drugs" so it's probably safe to assume that it is a substance sold in LaLaLand to the compliant residents.

What model to limit the availability of these "soft drugs" to adults would proponents use? How would licensing work and what outlets would sell these "soft drugs"?

Do proponents of the decriminalisation of "soft drugs" see the distribution channels for currently licensed habit-forming dangerous drugs being effective? e.g. prescription meds Xanax, Valium etc. are not available on the streets for very small money and there is no demand for smuggled cigarettes and illegal alcohol because they are available legally? Underage kids don't smoke tobacco and get drunk?

I believe before we can countenance legalising "soft drugs" whatever they are, we need to look at how we eliminate the illegal trade in so-called legal drugs first and prevent our children turning into cancer-riddled alcoholics. We need to get our priorities right and fulfilling the selfish wants of consumers of these mythical "soft drugs" is certainly not one of them.

Soft drugs are mythical? The soft drugs that are the source of such mystery to you include Canabis, MDMA and extacy(tablet MDMA). They are the drugs whch have the least health risks and should be considered individually although the combined effect on society would not eve come close to the effects of alcohol. The same is true when compared to tobacco. Prescription drugs are in fact just as available and are being sold at around 1Euro per tablet. Thats almost 10 valium for the price of a box of cigarettes. Perhaps we should be thinking about stricter regulations on the doctors who prescribe them, mostly to people who they are not helping but in fact creating legal addicts and becoming their drug dealers. Apart from law, can you tell me the difference? The doctors can drive around in their flashy cars paid for in part by the addicts they've legally created!

rooneytoons · 06-01-2012 02:46PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Different problems but this is a 'Gate' drug and sooner or later something new is tried ......but there should be a facility for sick people . Pot does effect work place behaviour . Accidents at home and small children or babies being dropped and consequently brain damaged .People driving cars and using gadgets etc.......You can't expect good sense from any drug user .

Weed is being smoked right now by the people who want to smoke it. Did I miss the statistics for the number of babies dropped on their heads by stoned parents? If you are a drinker of course you coudn't possibly drop your baby? Is that because alcohol is legal? I really want to know where all the stoners are hiding their dead babies?

Legalise and tax soft drugs

Comments