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(UK) Stephen Lawrence murder - Dobson & Norris Guilty

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Comments

  • #122
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Batsy wrote: »
    Sticking up for two men who I - and many others - believe have been jailed for something they didn't do is not being "racist."



    If Lawrence was white and the people who killed him were black we probably would have never even heard of the killing. The media would most likely have not even reported on it. The only reason it's got such a high profile is because he was black.

    Er, nope sorry I don't think that's true


  • #123
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Batsy wrote: »
    "Modern science" has convicted many people over the years who were eventually released because further evidence emerged which showed that it couldn't have been then who did it (such as in the Sion Jenkins case).

    Don't get too upset when it doesn't happen in their case, nor in the case of any other guilty as sin individual dragged through the courts for taking part in the same crime.


  • #124
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    And there we have it. Nice - use the kid's murder to push your disgusting agenda.
    Oh right, so now it's not a case of "they definitely didn't do it", it's a case of you believe they didn't. Glad you cleared that up. Any decent reason as to why you think they didn't do it, apart from them being white and the victim black and you immediately therefore liking them?
    Very same circumstances but the killers being black and the victim white and you'd be delighted with their conviction.

    ****ing sick.


  • #125
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Originally Posted by ItsAWindUp
    You've got the wrong end of the stick I think. He was simply replying to some racist nit who said that he was in a gang.

    Why is it racist to assume that Lawrence was in a gang? There are probably about 250 gangs in London alone and around 50% of them are fully black. A lot of the remaining 50% have some black members.

    The majority of black teenagers who are killed on London's streets are gang members who have been murdered by a fellow gang member, who is usually black.

    Therefore you can see why many believe that Lawrence was a member of a gang and was killed by a rival gang member, just like what happened on Boxing Day on Oxford Street on Boxing Day when gang member Seydou Diarrassouba, 18, was killed by what is believed to be a rival gang member.


  • #126
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    Batsy wrote: »
    Sticking up for two men who I - and many others - believe have been jailed for something they didn't do is not being "racist."



    If Lawrence was white and the people who killed him were black we probably would have never even heard of the killing. The media would most likely have not even reported on it. The only reason it's got such a high profile is because he was black.

    Er, nope sorry I don't think that's true
    He's always throwing out unsupported sh1t - single mothers all just get pregnant for a house etc, nothing to back it up. A joke really.


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  • #127
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Batsy wrote: »
    Why is it racist to assume that Lawrence was in a gang? There are probably about 250 gangs in London alone and around 50% of them are fully black. A lot of the remaining 50% have some black members.

    The majority of black teenagers who are killed on London's streets are gang members who have been murdered by a fellow gang member, who is usually black.

    Therefore you can see why many believe that Lawrence was a member of a gang and was killed by a rival gang member, just like what happened on Boxing Day on Oxford Street on Boxing Day when gang member Seydou Diarrassouba, 18, was killed by what is believed to be a rival gang member.

    I'd like to see the proof of this


  • #128
    Arianna_26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Arianna_26


    bwatson wrote: »
    No it was not, in any way, spot on. In a sense you have already conceded this yourself in asking of the relevance of my post.

    I made no reference to the sympathetic views people may or may not have towards Stephen Lawrence's family. Her point was far more irrelevant as a reply to my post than any reply I earlier posted to you was. Her "wow" was in truth the final straw.

    You said 'The average Irish person will be far more sympathetic towards black people because there are far fewer, far smaller black communities in the Republic at the moment'.

    Did I miss something - are the Lawrence family not black people?


  • #129
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,687 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Batsy wrote: »
    If Lawrence was white and the people who killed him were black we probably would have never even heard of the killing. The media would most likely have not even reported on it. The only reason it's got such a high profile is because he was black.

    You have got to be a headcase if you truly think that.

    I remember a white kid in Glasgow was abducted by an Asian gang and then murdered. He was simply targetted for being white. It was all over the news and papers and the media followed all the legal process. The racist kllers got their just desserts just like the 2 members of this gang. Hopefully they will get the rest of the murdering gang.


  • #130
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Dudess wrote: »
    And there we have it. Nice - use the kid's murder to push your disgusting agenda.

    I'm not pushing any agenda. I just believe Dobson and Norris didn't do it. People in the past who were jailed for murder have eventually been released, pardoned and paid compensation when there seemed to be far more "evidence" that it was them who did it than in the Norris and Dobson trial.
    Oh right, so now it's not a case of "they definitely didn't do it", it's a case of you believe they didn't.

    Yep. I believe they didn't do it.
    Glad you cleared that up. Any decent reason as to why you think they didn't do it, apart from them being white and the victim black and you immediately therefore liking them?

    I never said I liked them. I said that I believe they didn't do it. I've also written many times on here as to why I think the "evidence" for Dobson and Norris being the killers is flimsy.
    Very same circumstances but the killers being black and the victim white and you'd be delighted with their conviction.

    If a white person was killed by a gand of black people in a racially motivated attack we would never hear about it.

    And did you know that the vast majority of victims of racist crimes in Britain are white? Yet we only hear of such crimes in the media when the victim is black.


  • #131
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    You've got the wrong end of the stick I think. He was simply replying to some racist nit who said that he was in a gang.


    Understood. Thanks for clearing it up. It's clear that Mr. Lawrence, a brilliant student and all-round admirable young man, had nothing to do with gangs. :)


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  • #132
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    So you agree - you wouldn't have a problem with the evidence if he was white and the killers black. Yes it is racist to assume someone is in a gang because of their skin colour and location and no other reason.
    And it's dumb. And the kid was stabbed to death but no sympathy from you, just suspicion, because he was black. Totally warped.


  • #133
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,687 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Here is the link to the case I quoted earlier

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6123014.stm


  • #134
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    You've got the wrong end of the stick I think. He was simply replying to some racist nit who said that he was in a gang.


    Understood. Thanks for clearing it up. It's clear that Mr. Lawrence, a brilliant student and all-round admirable young man, had nothing to do with gangs. :)
    Maybe he had - but we have no proof whatsoever, hence decent people don't make the link.


  • #135
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    bwatson wrote: »
    I suggest you go back and read the last few pages. I have not suggested that Lawrence was a gang member nor the victim of a gang related attack. I am not so sure why you are directing the question at me.

    Fair enough if you didnt say he was in a gang . From readign the last few pages I thought you were backing batsy on that point. Consider the question directed at batsy.


  • #136
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Understood. Thanks for clearing it up. It's clear that Mr. Lawrence, a brilliant student and all-round admirable young man, had nothing to do with gangs. :)

    Yeah.

    Lawrence was a decent, caring, kind, gentle, member of society, whose smile lit up any room that he was in and he never caused any trouble and loved nothing more that working for the Samaritans and helping little old ladies cross the road and hed never been involved in any gangs or crime-related activity at all.

    Funnily enough, we hear the same platitutes about almost any kid stabbed to death on Britain's streets - and then it emerges that they were, in fact, a gang member and a drug-dealing scumbag.

    We were led to believe that Mark Duggan was a kind, loving and gentle sort of bloke. And now we actually know the truth about him.


  • #137
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,687 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    On a slightly different topic, I was a bit suprised to see the 15 year sentence which I think is a bit low for an aggravated offence


  • #138
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Batsy wrote: »
    Why is it racist to assume that Lawrence was in a gang? There are probably about 250 gangs in London alone and around 50% of them are fully black. A lot of the remaining 50% have some black members.

    The majority of black teenagers who are killed on London's streets are gang members who have been murdered by a fellow gang member, who is usually black.

    Therefore you can see why many believe that Lawrence was a member of a gang and was killed by a rival gang member, just like what happened on Boxing Day on Oxford Street on Boxing Day when gang member Seydou Diarrassouba, 18, was killed by what is believed to be a rival gang member.

    So why wasnt there a retalliation by members of Lawrences' gang?


  • #139
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    On a slightly different topic, I was a bit suprised to see the 15 year sentence which I think is a bit low for an aggravated offence

    They got such a sentence because the judge had to not only base their sentences on 1993 laws when murders in England & Wales has much more lenient sentences than they do now but he also had to base their sentences on the fact that when the two men supposedly did the killings they were under 18 years of age (Dobson and Norris were younger than Lawrence was when he was killed).


  • #140
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So why wasnt there a retalliation by members of Lawrences' gang?

    How do you know there wasn't?

    Also, how do we know that his fellow gang members knew who killed him?


  • #141
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Batsy wrote: »
    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Understood. Thanks for clearing it up. It's clear that Mr. Lawrence, a brilliant student and all-round admirable young man, had nothing to do with gangs. :)

    Yeah.

    Lawrence was a decent, caring, kind, gentle, member of society, whose smile lit up any room that he was in and he never caused any trouble and loved nothing more that working for the Samaritans and helping little old ladies cross the road and hed never been involved in any gangs or crime-related activity at all.

    Funnily enough, we hear the same platitutes about almost any kid stabbed to death on Britain's streets - and then it emerges that they were, in fact, a gang member and a drug-dealing scumbag.

    We were led to believe that Mark Duggan was a kind, loving and gentle sort of bloke. And now we actually know the truth about him.
    This is pretty shocking and barrel-scraping. Why should Lawrence have to have been any of the stuff in your first paragraph to ensure he was a decent person?
    And the only support you have for your assumption he was in a gang: he was black and living in London. Take a look at yourself. That sh1t is psycho.


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  • #142
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Batsy wrote: »
    If Lawrence was white and the people who killed him were black we probably would have never even heard of the killing. The media would most likely have not even reported on it. The only reason it's got such a high profile is because he was black.


    That's naive in the extreme.

    The only reason the Lawrence case was high-profile was because it took them so long to wrap it up, and there's a bit more wrapping up to go.

    I don't recall any similar black-on-white cases where the perpetrators weren't caught soon afterwards. In those cases, it would have dropped out of the news a few months later, soon after a court case.


  • #143
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Batsy wrote: »
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So why wasnt there a retalliation by members of Lawrences' gang?

    How do you know there wasn't?

    Also, how do we know that his fellow gang members knew who killed him?
    Because obviously we'd hear about it due to its link to such a high-profile case.


  • #144
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Dudess wrote: »
    And the only support you have for your assumption he was in a gang: he was black and living in London. Take a look at yourself. That sh1t is psycho.


    1) Most London gang members are black.

    2) The vast majority of teenagers stabbed or shot to death on London's streets are gang members.

    3) The vast majority of such victims are black and the vast majority of these killings are carried out by black rival gang members.

    When you take all these into account it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a member of a gang who was killed by a rival gang member.


  • #145
    KINGVictor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭KINGVictor


    Batsy wrote: »
    I'm not pushing any agenda. I just believe Dobson and Norris didn't do it. People in the past who were jailed for murder have eventually been released, pardoned and paid compensation when there seemed to be far more "evidence" that it was them who did it than in the Norris and Dobson trial.



    Yep. I believe they didn't do it.



    I never said I liked them. I said that I believe they didn't do it. I've also written many times on here as to why I think the "evidence" for Dobson and Norris being the killers is flimsy.



    If a white person was killed by a gand of black people in a racially motivated attack we would never hear about it.

    And did you know that the vast majority of victims of racist crimes in Britain are white? Yet we only hear of such crimes in the media when the victim is black.

    You have not provided any cogent reason why Dobson and Norris did not participate in the murder of Lawrence other than some fiticious notion that Lawrence 'could' have been a gang member which you have acknowledged you have no proof of either.

    You have consistently made ridiculous assumptions on this forum, a lot on the borderline of insanity. I have read nonsence in the Daily mail and the Telegraph which you get most of your info from but at least the reporters from those media outlets are not blatantly inaccurate in their assumptions. There is no correlation between the murder of S.Lawrence and gangs in London- it was clearly a racist attack.

    Every attempt to explain your folly and inability to deal with facts has been met with even more vile and ludicrous comments from yourself. Even a BNP spokesperson would do a better job.


  • #146
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Batsy wrote: »
    1) Most London gang members are black.

    2) The vast majority of teenagers stabbed or shot to death on London's streets are gang members.

    3) The vast majority of such victims are black and the vast majority of these killings are carried out by black rival gang members.

    When you take all these into account it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a member of a gang who was killed by a rival gang member.

    Again, you are refusing to give statistics to back up these alleged facts


  • #147
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Dudess wrote: »
    Because obviously we'd hear about it due to its link to such a high-profile case.

    Not really. Many gang members are murdered every year by a rival gang member and we hardly ever find out why it was done.

    But just because he was killed by a fellow gang member doesn't mean that the other members of the gang knew who did it.


  • #148
    brummytom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    Batsy wrote: »
    1) Most London gang members are black.

    2) The vast majority of teenagers stabbed or shot to death on London's streets are gang members.

    3) The vast majority of such victims are black and the vast majority of these killings are carried out by black rival gang members.

    When you take all these into account it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a member of a gang who was killed by a rival gang member.
    It's not reasonable at all. Just because he was black doesn't mean he was in a gang. Generalisations mean nothing to individual cases.
    Even if 99% of black kids were in gangs, what's to stop him being the 1%?


    I really hope you're trying to wind people up.


  • #149
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Batsy wrote: »
    1) Most London gang members are black.

    2) The vast majority of teenagers stabbed or shot to death on London's streets are gang members.

    3) The vast majority of such victims are black and the vast majority of these killings are carried out by black rival gang members.

    When you take all these into account it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a member of a gang who was killed by a rival gang member.

    We know about "assume", don't we?


  • #150
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You're stating your assumptions as fact - are you mentally ok?
    And yes we would hear about it - it was a high profile case. Just because that doesn't suit your racism, doesn't make you right.


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  • #151
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Batsy wrote: »
    1) Most London gang members are black.

    2) The vast majority of teenagers stabbed or shot to death on London's streets are gang members.

    3) The vast majority of such victims are black and the vast majority of these killings are carried out by black rival gang members.

    When you take all these into account it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a member of a gang who was killed by a rival gang member.
    I'm going to ask you again for any evidence that Stephen Lawrence was involved in gangs.

    Thanks.


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