(UK) Stephen Lawrence murder - Dobson & Norris Guilty

charlemont · 04-01-2012 02:47AM

Two dick heads who got what they deserved, Glad justice has been done for Stephen...

Son Of A Vidic · 04-01-2012 02:58AM

Marissa Rotten Curler wrote: »

Well the Lawrence family have their pound of flesh, I hope they're happy and leave it be now.

Having lived in London I remember the Lawrence inquiry quite well. I also remember the scummy thug Jamie Accourt goading and provoking the public as he appeared at the tribunal. This contrasted starkly with the calm, quite dignity of Mr. Lawrence as he addressed the public asking them to show restraint and to remain calm in the face of such behaviour. All along, the Lawrence family have shown us nothing but quite dignity and determination in their pursuit of justice. The above quote is provocative and also absolutely ridiculous.

policarp · 04-01-2012 03:35AM

Dudess wrote: »

Nice one. I remember seeing clips of that film on the news at the time. Hateful fuhkers. :-/

Trial by media.
Maybe right, maybe wrong.
But in this case?

Kiera · 04-01-2012 03:41AM

policarp wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Nice one. I remember seeing clips of that film on the news at the time. Hateful fuhkers. :-/

Trial by media.
Maybe right, maybe wrong.
But in this case?

They were convicted by evidence this time.

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 01:31PM

Sentences just announced.

12.13pm: Gary Dobson and David Norris have been sentenced for the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Gary Dobson must serve a minimum of 15 years and two months before he is eligible for parole.
David Norris must serve a minimum of 14 years and three months before he is eligible for parole.
The defendants did not respond, going down quietly, Sandra Laville reports from the court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/04/stephen-lawrence-murder-reaction-sentencing-gary-dobson-david-norris

44leto · 04-01-2012 01:40PM

I watch a BBC documentary on the history of this last night, it was brilliant. I was struck how the image of Stephen Lawrence has become iconic. We all know what the kid looked like before his murder. His parents Doreen and Neville who fought for their son and still are are British and international heroes.

I drew a parallel with Rosa Parks who also bravely took on the established and disgusting racism of her society. Stephen Lawrence also has a legacy of changing peoples attitudes, but as Doreen who acknowledged that,, would rather her son.

Tipsy McSwagger · 04-01-2012 02:25PM

44leto wrote: »

I watch a BBC documentary on the history of this last night, it was brilliant. I was struck how the image of Stephen Lawrence has become iconic. We all know what the kid looked like before his murder. His parents Doreen and Neville who fought for their son and still are are British and international heroes.

I drew a parallel with Rosa Parks who also bravely took on the established and disgusting racism of her society. Stephen Lawrence also has a legacy of changing peoples attitudes, but as Doreen who acknowledged that,, would rather her son.

Rosa Parks was part of a pre-planned stunt organized by the NAACP where everyone on the bus was in on it, she was picked because she was a respected member of the black community. It was Claudette Colvin who actually refused to give up her seat on the bus to a white man. She was deemed unsuitable by the NAACP because she a pregnant teenager. It was her court case in December 1956 that led to bus segregation being seen as unconstitutional.

Dudess · 04-01-2012 02:28PM

How can you say such a thing Mak? Especially as a father yourself...

Batsy · 04-01-2012 05:29PM

In my opinion they shouldn't be in jail. I don't even think they did it. I'm not the only one who thinks something fishy is going on.

Batsy · 04-01-2012 05:49PM

Rod Liddle
The Spectator

A few excerpts from the article:

“I wonder what would happen if I wrote an article for this magazine saying that Gary Dobson and David Norris had nothing to do with the stabbing to death of the black youngster Stephen Lawrence 18 years ago? And that they are entirely innocent? The two are in court at this moment charged with the murder of Lawrence, and therefore I would be in contempt of court…

“Courts rightly take such matters very seriously, but it would be a singularly perverse judge who took action against me: for the last 18 years the public has been assured that all five of the men originally named as suspects, including Dobson and Norris, are absolutely guilty, bang to rights. And reminded of the fact every so often.”

"It matters not that Dobson, along with Neil Acourt and Luke Knight, were acquited in a private prosecution for the crime. They are guilty: They were not convicted because the Metropolitan Police were/are both institutuionally racist and corrupt, as well as incompetent. That is what you are supposed to believe, if you are a right thinking person, regardless of the acquittal. There is a desperate yearning, not so much that Stephen Lawrence killer(s) be brought to justice, but that these five men - two Acourts, Dobson, Knight and Norris - be found guilty. They are proven to have acted in a racist manner, they are - beyong this - not terribly nice people. And somehow their conviction will help to exculpate the rest of us, show that we are a society which does not tolerate racism."

Liddle went on to say: “Will Dobson and Norris – the son of a drug dealer himself, as it happens; at least two of the five men and probably three have familial connects to fairly big-time sarf lunnun thick-as-mince gangsters – get a fair hearing, do you suppose?

“Nope, not a chance. About eight years ago Neil Acourt and David Norris were charged with throwing an empty drink carton in the direction of a policeman. They were sentenced to 18 months each in prison – no other charges, that’s all it was. I think they received that sentence on account of not being banged up for the murder of Stephen Lawrence, not for throwing a drink carton at a copper. They were sentenced to eighteen months for the crime of having not been found guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence. I don't think that they are very nice people. So I suppose it's ok that we invent a new system of justice to ensure they get banged up.

“Should we care about these undoubtedly violent, often criminal, certainly unpleaseant white trash? That they were (and probably still are) racists is quite beyond dispute. Maybe, these days, that’s enough to convince the rest of us that where legal rights are concerned, they simply do not have any.”

You can read the full article here: http://blogs.pressgazette.co.uk/editor/2012/01/04/the-rod-liddle-article-which-threatened-stephen-lawrence-trial-as-it-had-barely-begun/

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 06:10PM

Batsy wrote: »

Rod Liddle...

Rod Liddle? Seriously?

Batsy wrote: »

"It matters not that Dobson, along with Neil Acourt and Luke Knight, were acquited in a private prosecution for the crime.

Until new, compelling evidence came to light and they were brought to trial again, based on that evidence.

Batsy wrote: »

About eight years ago Neil Acourt and David Norris were charged with throwing an empty drink carton in the direction of a policeman. They were sentenced to 18 months each in prison – no other charges, that’s all it was.

Wrong. They also called said policeman a "nigger" and were charged with a racially aggravated assault iirc.

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:13PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Until new, compelling evidence came to light and they were brought to trial again, based on that evidence.

Many of that "evidence" is nothing of the sort. I believe the defence's case that the reason bits of fluff etc from the two men's clothing were found on the clothing of Stephen Lawrence was due to contamination.

Wrong. They also called said policeman a "nigger" and were charged with a racially aggravated assault iirc.

Have you got any absolute proof of that?

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 06:17PM

Batsy wrote: »

Many of that "evidence" is nothing of the sort. I believe the defence's case that the reason bits of fluff etc from the two men's clothing were found on the clothing of Stephen Lawrence was due to contamination.

A defence that the jury obviously rejected.

Batsy wrote: »

Have you got any absolute proof of that?

Apologies, it was racially aggravated intentional harassment.

A year later he was sent to jail for driving while disqualified, and two years later he returned to the scene of the Lawrence murder, Well Hall Road, with Neil Acourt, where he shouted "******" at a passing black man, who happened to be an off-duty police officer, Gareth Reid.
Both men were jailed for 12 months for racially aggravated intentional harassment, and wrote a letter before they went to prison to the nail bomber David Copeland. "We are being done for abusing a black copper," they said. "We hope we don't get stuck in with a load of ****."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/03/stephen-lawrence-racist-pair-suspicion?intcmp=239

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:22PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

A defence that the jury obviously rejected.

Only because the judge put pressure on them to find the two men guilty.

Apologies, it was racially aggravated intentional harassment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/03/stephen-lawrence-racist-pair-suspicion?intcmp=239

I prefer to believe the theory that Lawrence was part of one of London's many gangs and that he was murdered by a rival gang member.

Stabbings of black youths happen several times a year on London's streets and 99% of them are gang related and the vast majority of the perpetrators are also black (before you accuse me of racism it is a fact).

Of course, the left wing ruling elite of Britain prefer to make us believe that because the victim was black then his killer (or killers) were obviously a group of thuggish, racist white men. And then when the cops go out to look for these white men who killed Lawrence they can't find them because they don't exist and that's why there had been no conviction of anybody in the end.

And then (almost 20 years later) they find a couple of white men who fit the bill, take a couple of photos of them and make the men in the photos look as thuggish as possible, and then put every pressure on a jury to ensure that they are banged up.

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 06:32PM

Batsy wrote: »

And then (almost 20 years later) they find a couple of white men who fit the bill, take a couple of photos of them and make the men in the photos look as thuggish as possible, and then put every pressure on a jury to ensure that they are banged up.

You clearly haven't got a fucking clue what you are on about.

bwatson · 04-01-2012 06:37PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

I don't understand your post. Who responded to what? They were spat at by members of the public who were understandably upset by the apparent injustice been carried out at the time.

I think the Lawrence family have shown dignity, considering they had to wait for 18 years for the killers of their son to be brought to justice.

Of course they will be happy that they have eventually got some form of closure but saying (in your own words) they have got their "pound of flesh" and should "leave it be now" is what I don't understand. Perharps, you can further explain what you meant...

They were spat at by black and asian racists. It wasn't their disgust at the murders that drove them to do it, but their disgust towards caucasian people and the opportunity that arose.

KINGVictor · 04-01-2012 06:37PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

You clearly haven't got a fucking clue what you are on about.

If you think that was bad, then you should have a look at his more ridiculous posts in the politics section.

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:38PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

You clearly haven't got a fucking clue what you are on about.

Yeah. I bet you said the same thing when Sion Jenkins was jailed for murdering his 13 year old foster daughter Billy-Jo in 1997. You probably though all those who doubted his guilt din't have a clue what they were talking about. The "evidence" against Sion was that the girl's blood was splattered on his fleece jacket and therefore we all automatically thought that he was, without doubt, the killer.

Eventually Jenkins was released on appeal and got a shedload of compensation. It seems that the reason her blood was on his jacket was actually because he discovered her injured and she was emitting blood from her mouth as she exhaled. It is now believed that a nutcase crept into the garden where Billy-Jo was smashed her over the head for no reason and then disappeared.

Now, the evidence used to convict these two men over the Lawrence killing is even more flimsier than that used to convict Jenkins. All the evidence we are talking about is a bloodstain smaller than a full stop on the inside of a jacket collar and maybe two or three very short hairs or fibres, where the potential for cross-contamination was huge. And why was it huge? Because Lawrence's and the suspects' clothing were stored and intermingled in the same storage facility.

starviewadams · 04-01-2012 06:39PM

Good documentary here showing the ineptitude and possible corruption of the Metropolitan Police's initial investigation into Stephen Lawrence's murder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXn3fZQEZlQ

KINGVictor · 04-01-2012 06:39PM

Batsy wrote: »

Only because the judge put pressure on them to find the two men guilty.

I prefer to believe the theory that Lawrence was part of one of London's many gangs and that he was murdered by a rival gang member.

Stabbings of black youths happen several times a year on London's streets and 99% of them are gang related and the vast majority of the perpetrators are also black (before you accuse me of racism it is a fact).

Of course, the left wing ruling elite of Britain prefer to make us believe that because the victim was black then his killer (or killers) were obviously a group of thuggish, racist white men. And then when the cops go out to look for these white men who killed Lawrence they can't find them because they don't exist and that's why there had been no conviction of anybody in the end.

And then (almost 20 years later) they find a couple of white men who fit the bill, take a couple of photos of them and make the men in the photos look as thuggish as possible, and then put every pressure on a jury to ensure that they are banged up.

You would have to provide proof that Lawrence was a gang-member, all you are doing here is hypothesizing.

I guess that the video footage of them planning racist attacks was also staged by the left wing media?

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:42PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

You would have to provide proof that Lawrence was a gang-member, all you are doing here is hypothesizing.

It's probably too late for that. The police should have checked that properly at the time. In fact, they did ask Lawrence's friend whether or not he and Lawrence were members of a gang. Of course, his friend denied it.

I guess that the video footage of them planning racist attacks was also staged by the left wing media?

Just because a bunch of men were making racists comments in a house does not prove that they killed Stephem Lawrence.

ejmaztec · 04-01-2012 06:45PM

The Daily Mail seems to be taking the credit, and is now gunning for the other three.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081980/Stephen-Lawrence-murder-Still-swaggering-got-away.html

But what has happened to the men who, in the eyes of many, have ‘got away with murder’?

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 06:45PM

Batsy wrote: »

Just because a bunch of men were making racists comments in a house does not prove that they killed Stephem Lawrence.

Just as someone being black does not prove that he is a gang member.

KINGVictor · 04-01-2012 06:48PM

Batsy wrote: »

It's probably too late for that. The police should have checked that properly at the time. In fact, they did ask Lawrence's friend whether or not he and Lawrence were members of a gang. Of course, his friend denied it.

Just because a bunch of men were making racists comments in a house does not prove that they killed Stephem Lawrence.

If it is too late to prove that he was a gang-member, why bring it up?

Have you seen the footage? I dont think they were just making comments- they gave a highly demonstrative account of their racist views, just months after Lawrence was killed

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:51PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Just as someone being black does not prove that he is a gang member.

No, but almost all youth stabbings nowadays in London - and it was probably the same in 1993 - are gang related, and almost all of the victims and perpetrators of those stabbings are black. So you can see why I, and many others, think it likely that Lawrence was in a gang and was stabbed by a rival gang member (just like what happened to that black teenager on Oxford Street on Boxing Day).

Also, evidence shows that black boys are more likely to get involved in gangs than white boys. The black community in Britain's big cities realises this and have set up several initiatives to combat it.

Also look at gun crime. In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were from the Afro-Caribbean community.

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:52PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

If it is too late to prove that he was a gang-member, why bring it up?

I'm telling you my belief that it is likely he was killed by a rival gang member.

Have you seen the footage? I dont think they were just making comments- they gave a highly demonstrative account of their racist views, just months after Lawrence was killed

Millions of people around the world would have made racist comments just months after Lawrence was killed. So did all those people kill him, too?

hooradiation · 04-01-2012 06:52PM

Batsy wrote: »

It's probably too late for that. The police should have checked that properly at the time. In fact, they did ask Lawrence's friend whether or not he and Lawrence were members of a gang. Of course, his friend denied it.

And, therefore, so?
Are you assuming denial means guilt now?

ejmaztec · 04-01-2012 06:55PM

Batsy wrote: »

No, but almost all youth stabbings nowadays in London - and it was probably the same in 1993 - are gang related, and almost all of the victims and perpetrators of those stabbings are black. So you can see why I, and many others, think it likely that Lawrence was in a gang and was stabbed by a rival gang member (just like what happened to that black teenager on Oxford Street on Boxing Day).

Also, evidence shows that black boys are more likely to get involved in gangs than white boys. The black community instead in Britain's big cities realises this and have set up several initiatives to combat it.

Also look at gun crime. In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were from the Afro-Caribbean community.

...and in the meantime, neo-nazi scumbags wander around helping old ladies across the road in between working for various charity organisations.

Batsy · 04-01-2012 06:56PM

hooradiation wrote: »

And, therefore, so?
Are you assuming denial means guilt now?

His friend was interviewed on TV last night saying that, at the time, the police asked him whether Lawrence was a part of a gang. He said that he thought it was not relevant in trying to bring Lawrence's killer to justice.

And I was thinking: "It WAS relevant in trying to bring his killer to justice. The police had every right to assume that Lawrence was in a gang and that he was murdered by a rival gang member. It is a common occurrence and therefore they had every right to believe that's what happened."

And, even though Lawrence's friend denied it, I believe the police should have looked more closely at whether or not Lawrence was part of a violent gang.

El Weirdo · 04-01-2012 06:57PM

Batsy wrote: »

So you can see why I, and many others, think it likely that Lawrence was in a gang and was stabbed by a rival gang member...

No. No I can't.

(UK) Stephen Lawrence murder - Dobson & Norris Guilty

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