Why are most hotel workers not Irish ?

Johnny Foreigner · 01-01-2012 04:07PM

gigino wrote: »

its tough all right, but at least we have the minimum wage - which is one of the highest in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

If you want to use the word slave, think how some workers in some other countries are treated - including ones which made many of the items in your home.

I often think about that.
My Adidas Samba Super's seem to last much longer these days than they did in the 1980's. I think the slaves in the sweat shops must be of a higher calibre these days.

01-01-2012 04:14PM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

God help you. That was modern day slavery.

That's your average hotel job. Hotel work in any country is ridiculously hard work, ridiculously long hours and ridiculously underpaid. I don't think anyone gets it until they work in one. You just don't have the 'rights' that people in other lines of work take for granted. You're on your feet constantly, with one lunch break you might not even get if it's busy. You're usually dying for the toilet because you can't just pop off for a wee if you're alone at reception. Need to drink water cos you're wearing a suit in 35 degree heat? Forget it. You can drink water on your lunch break. Made plans to see a gig/meet friends/go to a birthday party because you're meant to finish at 3? If the manager needs you in the evening, cancel the plans. Hotel work isn't a job, it's a lifestyle. You can forget maintaining friendships with anyone outside work because you're either working at night or going to bed early to get up at 5 for the early shift. You rarely get a Saturday or Sunday off and almost never get the entire weekend. I did it as a young, single person and it nearly killed me. I don't know how people with families do it.

Junglewoman · 01-01-2012 04:25PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That is the heart of the matter. Working in an Irish hotel that operates a split shift system takes over your life.

Many many years ago I began working as a chef in a family run, very reputable Irish hotel. I was 'promised' that my morning shift would be 10-2 so I could collect my son from primary school at 2:30 - never happened. Why - because restaurant orders were taken until 2 and bar food orders until 2:30 - so I had to pay someone to collect my son from school. If I was lucky I would get home by 3 - help him with homework, make his dinner, wait for the child minder and back to work for 5:30 - my shift officially began at 6 but being a 'fancy' hotel we made our own crisps for the bar. They had to be ready and in the bar for 6 which was also when first orders were taken.
The shift ended when the last main course was sent out and the kitchen had been cleaned. Last restaurant order was taken at 9:30 - not too bad unless someone ordered well done fillet of beef or the 'Tasting' menu of 8 courses. On a very goodnight we might finish at 10:30 - usually closer to 11:30.

If there was a wedding (average of 2 every weekend for 7 months) then forget the afternoon break - work started at 10 and finished around 11:30 that night. The staff did get a cooked dinner - but as the already hard pressed chefs also had to cook this while also prepping/serving weddings/lunch/bar food we usually found it was all eaten by the time we got a break.

If we were short staffed - tough. For months on end (while waiting for the CERT placements to arrive) day off was reduced to one day a week.

I did eventually become head Chef and did what I could about the working conditions, but there is little one can do about hours while split shifts are in place - with the exception of weekend kitchen porters, all the catering staff were on salary with no overtime ended up working for less then the minimum hourly wage. Forget getting a Friday or Saturday off - if lucky one might get 2 days off together every two months or so. Kitchen staff do not get tips. If one has a child the added costs of childminding essentially mean that you are working to pay a childminder to raise the child you rarely get to see.

This just typifies the lifestyle associated with the industry. If you discount the additional headaches of being short staffed and how you feel about overtime payments or shifts, in even the most well run establishments it is impossible to walk away at a shift-end with orders pending. Very difficult trying to make it for a last bus or even Nitelink in Dublin if you care about the work you do and buy into the hospitality aspect of the job. In my case missing a last bus or being rostered late meant €25 for a taxi home with no obligation on the employer to pay. If I had been on minimum wage or similar this is a huge outlay basically eradicating 3 hours pay or possibly more when tax and PRSI are deducted. The same would apply getting into work for 5 or 6am starts with no early bus available or on Sundays when a lot of bus routes don't start until after nine. Again, being Dublin City based, car parking was not available where I worked and the costs outweighed the benefits of using a commercial car park. Add childcare into the equation and you get a logistical nightmare. Just more food for thought on the complex issue of hotel work, though overall my experience was good as I worked for a decent employer who paid well in excess of minimum wage and paid a premium on Sunday which helped greatly with transport costs.

shannie · 01-01-2012 04:27PM

Why are most hotel workers not Irish?
Take out the word hotel...

Judgement Day · 01-01-2012 04:34PM

gigino wrote: »

The dole ( and pensions etc ) should be lowered. As it is is roughly half in N. Ireland compared to here.

It seems that you're very out of touch with reality considering all the talking you do with people. Any further reductions in social welfare will completely undermine what is left of the retail sector and throw even more workers on to the dole.

Nodin · 01-01-2012 05:06PM

gigino wrote: »

I do not interrogate anyone, I chatted with a HR person whom I know socially. They may or may not be in the same sports club as I am : I am not giving you that information. Anyway, chat: thats what friends do some sometimes;)

You didn't answer the following

What was the name of the Polish plumber wqho only charged 25 Euro? What was the specific job they did?

What was the name of the Irish plumber who charged 80 'for **** all'? What was the specific job they were supposed to do?

gigino wrote: »

I would say 25 euro is a perfectly economical charge ( in fact good money considering the times we are in ) for a plumber to charge if he was new to the area, had low overheads, wanted to get his foot in the door, lived close to the job, had little or no travelling time and spent only 30 minutes on the job.

"if"..."if".....You don't know what he did or didn't do and don't apparently know his details.....

HovaBaby · 01-01-2012 05:59PM

Regards topic title. I think another reason is that foreign workers will have at least 2 languages (native + English) with 3+ languages learned sometimes.

Whereas we have the ol' "Conas Ta Tú?" when the foreigner arrive to show our "expertise" in the language. Most Irish people don't speak Irish, plus everyone who speaks Irish can speak English. So that makes the usefulness if Irish as a helpful 2nd language helpless.

gigino · 01-01-2012 08:22PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any further reductions in social welfare will completely undermine what is left of the retail sector and throw even more workers on to the dole.

how do you think the economies in other countries function so ? Is the retail sector in the UK "undermined" because their social welfare is considerably less than ours?

gigino · 01-01-2012 08:26PM

Nodin wrote: »

What was the name of the Polish plumber wqho only charged 25 Euro? What was the specific job they did?

What was the name of the Irish plumber who charged 80 'for **** all'? What was the specific job they were supposed to do?

The polish plumber fixed a burst pipe in a house. Quite a lot of houses had burst pipes this time last year. No I am not giving his name or number on public boards.ie for you to stalk. As I said I doubt he offers a nationwide service anyway. I would imagine his English has improved and his prices increased a bit anyway as he got established. If you want to enquire the price of a newly arrived ( or otherwise ) Polish plumber or Latvian you could ask for a recommendation in your local Polish or Latvian shop. Get a price anyway, and only pay if the jobs done properly. Let us know how you get on.

mikemac1 · 01-01-2012 08:31PM

Realy gigino, you have a friend and a story for every situation :rolleyes:

If I planned a weekend break in Munich or Vienna or fecking Baghdad you'd tell me you were talking to somebody out there

We're all anonymous here, enough with the stories, no need to impress

gigino · 01-01-2012 08:38PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Realy gigino, you have a friend and a story for every situation

No I do not. And its not really impressive just to be neighbours with some who employed a polish plumber. You are not a plumber who charges 80 to fix a burst pipe by any chance ? If you can get it, good luck to you.

mikemac1 · 01-01-2012 08:41PM

Did the guy charge VAT and give a receipt?

gigino · 01-01-2012 08:49PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Did the guy charge VAT and give a receipt?

You do not need to register for vat if your turnover is under a certain figure. I know when I once paid the grumpy Irish plumber 80 euro for F*** al, I paid cash and did not get a receipt. My neighbour was very impressed and thankful to get the job done though. Well recommended.

King of Kings · 01-01-2012 08:57PM

i know little of the hotel sector - but as a doorman one of my polish collegues had to give his mate a dig out with some sinister lads.

His mate was given (or arranged) a job by another pole - he hated the job and left after 2 days however the guy who arranged the work still wanted the 500e (weeks wages) for arranging the position.

It tunred ugly with a few brawls and arrests.

So johnnyforeigner is not the only one to encounter this.

gigino · 01-01-2012 09:04PM

its has not been unknown in Ireland to get a digout from friends ( say in Manchester) for a favour done.

Its happened at the top, all the way down. To the lad who got a job because his Dad knew someone, and a weeks use of the holiday home was offered as thanks.

Fergus · 01-01-2012 09:36PM

Hi Folks..

Somebody told me I could get the number here of a Polish plumber that does emergency calls for 25 euro? I have the money waiting right here.

Kev.OC · 01-01-2012 09:39PM

Fergus wrote: »

Hi Folks..

Somebody told me I could get the number here of a Polish plumber that does emergency calls for 25 euro? I have the money waiting right here.

I'm afraid you were mislead. The details of this mythical plumber are yet to be released for verification.

gigino · 01-01-2012 09:39PM

Fergus wrote: »

Hi Folks..

Somebody told me I could get the number here of a Polish plumber that does emergency calls for 25 euro? I have the money waiting right here.

not nationwide. though if you are stuck get 3 quotations from recommendations of plumbers in your local Polish or Latvian shop. Get a price anyway, and only pay if the jobs done properly. Let us know how you get on.

mattjack · 01-01-2012 09:40PM

Kev.OC wrote: »

I'm afraid you were mislead. The details of this mythical plumber are yet to be released for verification.

Rubbish, you just need to know the secret handshake.

gigino · 01-01-2012 09:42PM

mattjack wrote: »

Rubbish, you just need to know the secret handshake.

speak a few words of polish;). Only joking, no need.

just point at the leaky pipe

be in the right place at the right time.

Judgement Day · 01-01-2012 09:54PM

gigino wrote: »

how do you think the economies in other countries function so ? Is the retail sector in the UK "undermined" because their social welfare is considerably less than ours?

With all your contacts I'm surprised that none of them have told you how bad things are in the Irish retail sector. People at the lower end of the economic spectrum are what are keeping what's left of the retail sector going - spending on essentials - not golf club memberships and Spanish apartments. I couldn't care less about social welfare rates in the UK, and elsewhere, you try surviving and digging yourself out of a hole on on €188 per week.

mattjack · 01-01-2012 10:00PM

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

During the Celtic Tiger we all know it was expensive to get a plumber or electrician. Now than some reality has returned to the market, whats the best value anyone has found for say half an hours work ? Say fixing the easiest burst pipe, or putting up a light on a wall in a room where there was just wires coming out of the wall

mattjack · 01-01-2012 10:01PM

gigino
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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best value tradesman ( eg plumber / electrician ) call out charge ?
During the Celtic Tiger we all know it was expensive to get a plumber or electrician. Now than some reality has returned to the market, whats the best value anyone has found for say half an hours work ? Say fixing the easiest burst pipe, or putting up a light on a wall in a room where there was just wires coming out of the wall.
:pac::pac::pac::pac:

mattjack · 01-01-2012 10:03PM

Go down to your Polish/Latvian shop...get them to give you a quote

gigino · 01-01-2012 10:06PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

People at the lower end of the economic spectrum are what are keeping what's left of the retail sector going - spending on essentials.

but with shop keepers this side of the border having to pay more for employees ( our minimum wage is a fair more in Dundalk compared to Newry for example ).....HIGH WAGES AND HIGH SOCIAL WELFARE ARE HINDERING THE COUNTRIES COMPETIVENESS

Judgement Day · 01-01-2012 10:14PM

gigino wrote: »

but with shop keepers this side of the border having to pay more for employees ( our minimum wage is a fair more in Dundalk compared to Newry for example ).....HIGH WAGES AND HIGH SOCIAL WELFARE ARE HINDERING THE COUNTRIES COMPETIVENESS

No, it is mad politicians spending money like it was water on PPars, E Voting machines, Thornton Hall prison, Luas extensions up the mountains, pensions for TDs, Ministers, Judges, outrageous salaries for TDs etc. that have the country 'uncompetitive' - now would you ever go way back off to whatever FF Cumann you crawled out from.

gigino · 01-01-2012 10:17PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

No, it is mad politicians spending money like it was water on PPars, E Voting machines, Thornton Hall prison, Luas extensions up the mountains, pensions for TDs, Ministers, Judges, outrageous salaries for TDs etc. that have the country 'uncompetitive' - now would you ever go way back off to whatever FF Cumann you crawled out from.

yup, FF made the above mistakes all right, but they also rose the minimum wage + social welfare costing the country extra billions

so I am not FF despite what u may think;)

alex73 · 01-01-2012 10:40PM

My wife is Polish. We had to move for work some years ago (my work) . My wife said she would also like to get a job. In one week she go a job in a hot. At the time the was 14 % unemployment in the town. (this was before eastern Europe joined EU in 2003).

Lets not kid ourselves that were many people who just could not be bothered to work even in the boom time. When things were good if you had no job its was easily to ride it out with Social Welfare.

In my own work place I sometimes get people sent by FAS for interviews, They come badly dressed, with bad CV, badly presented and with little interested or qualifications, when you need to make a choice of who to hire you have to give the job to the person who ticks all the boxes. Today things haved changed and there are a lot of Irish Unemployed who are very employable, But I find that those who been out of work for more than a year loose a lot of work related skills, also the longer you are out of work the worse it looks on CV.

Yes there are lots of Foreigners in hotels, but they took up Jobs that us Irish did not want 6/7 years ago.. are we supposed to kick them out now that 200,000 Irish people have lost their well paid jobs ? What about the 300,000 Irish who work in UK,USA,AUS/Canada? Do those countries look at us and say...Those Foreign Irish People taking our jobs?

gigino · 02-01-2012 12:34AM

alex73 wrote: »

When things were good if you had no job its was easily to ride it out with Social Welfare.

When the economy is bad it is still easier - for some unemployed people - to ride it out with Social Welfare rather than trying to work hard eg cleaning and making up rooms under pressure.
I say well done to any Poles or migrants who move country, get a job and work hard. Most of us Irish have relations who have done that to other countries over the years. I wonder how many of the 65,000 people or whatever the number is of people who immigrated here in 2011 and got PPS numbers, got jobs ?

Nodin · 02-01-2012 12:52AM

gigino wrote: »

The polish plumber fixed a burst pipe in a house. .

.... for 25 Euro? You're making it up. Again.

Why are most hotel workers not Irish ?

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