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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Trilla wrote: »
    Acceptable to a point... but this is the typical wise man reply post and it just won't do in this circumstance. These flaws are evident but given the overall outcome and the fact we're dealing with racism here the whole "we will support our own" just won't wash.

    If it was a slam dunk then I would agree, but it's an indefensible report as far as I'm concerned.

    It would be laughed out of any normal court, and it has the potential to wreck the guy's life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    So in short Evra has failed to be reprimanded for his use of swear words,accusing the referee of booking him because he is black and threatening to punch an opponent on multiple occasions and Suarez has been banned for using the Spanish word for "Black" either 5,7,8 or ten times.

    Evra has suddenly changed from a wholly unreliable witness to a paragon of virtue and Suarez has been branded a racist though both the FA and Evra plus the whole of Uruguay and the spanish speaking parts of the continent of South America disagree.

    Jesus Liverpools lawyers are going to have a bloody field day with this mess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    You or your club couldn't get any lower at this stage.:rolleyes:

    From a poster who has posted some absolutely horrible stuff about LFC .................
    While i see your point, that does mean Kuyt somewhat back-tracked. He was "certain" he heard Evra say he was being booked for being black yet he says he may have misunderstood what Suarez was saying to him in Dutch. I can understand that not speaking in his native tongue it may have come across different but that was both Kuyt and Comoli who had to say they may have misunderstood him.

    I genuinely don't get it. It was a conversation after a match that even the report admits, players can be exhausted after a match, it isn't 100% reliable. Plus a lot of this is recollection. Then you've the language thing.

    He was cross examined and asked a simple question, could his statement be open to interpretation? or something like that. If he'd said no, he'd have been too definitive and not being honest.

    Kuyt seems to have acted honestly, otherwise he wouldn't have said anything disparaging about Suarez. He could well have misheard Evra, considering De Gea and Kuyt heard nothing with Evra and Suarez beside him, perfectly reasonable.

    I'd say, on the balance of probabilities, Kuyt was being honest on both occasions! ;)

    Anyway its New Years Eve.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    K-9 wrote: »
    The FA didn't really put any weight on this at all, Evra didn't even remember it as he was so irate apparently!

    What I find odd is Suarez shrugs his shoulders at this time when asked by Evra why he kicked him. It would easily tie in with Suarez saying "it just happened, part of the game" type stuff. The FA seemed to dismiss that as a reasonable explanation, conveniently.

    Well, they were damning in their assessment that they didn't believe Suarez when he said that he pinched Evra's skin in an attempt to defuse the situation. I guess it made him lose even more credibility in their eyes, so that incident is important from that point of view.

    Suarez shrugging his shoulders doesn't really confirm anything either way tbh.

    Evra; ''Why did you kick me?''

    Suarez; (Shrugs shoulders) ''because you're black''

    Or else he could have just shrugged his shoulders and a few seconds later racially abused him.

    It could have easily happened tbf, he was obviously acting the fool trying to wind him up so shrugging his shoulders while racially abusing him or shrugging his shoulders before racially abusing him, is hardly that unlikely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    MD1990 wrote: »
    i don't understand how Evra is a reliable witness
    he falsly accused a Chelsea groundman of racism in 2008

    He's not. There is only the word of a serial accuser backed by a panel of xenophobes who, finding themselves unable to use evidence, picked the story that suited their bias and their agenda the best.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    All i'm gonna say lads, is this sets a dangerous precedent. A number of times in that report (which i read from start to finish) the Commission tries to argue that it's decision was informed by the fact Suarez used the insulting term seven times. Fact. This disturbs me greatly, given there were no facts to back this up with. The FA are basically saying "oh we think this is what happened, so yes we're finding him guilty", hence tarnishing a human beings' reputation forever. I don't know whether Suarez is guilty or not. I'm not saying one way or the other. I honestly can't make my mind up based on what's outlined in the report. The FA have made a complete and utter balls of this imo. A person's life may be ruined based on what they 'believe to have happened'. Exercising caution, it appears, is not the FA's strong point.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    He's not. There is only the word of a serial accuser backed by a panel of xenophobes who, finding themselves unable to use evidence, picked the story that suited their bias and their agenda the best.

    Pathetic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    Pathetic.
    It surely is alright and here's hoping the FA get called out for it by the clubs lawyers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 958 ✭✭✭eugeneious


    So in short Evra has failed to be reprimanded for his use of swear words,accusing the referee of booking him because he is black and threatening to punch an opponent on multiple occasions and Suarez has been banned for using the Spanish word for "Black" either 5,7,8 or ten times.

    Evra has suddenly changed from a wholly unreliable witness to a paragon of virtue and Suarez has been branded a racist though both the FA and Evra plus the whole of Uruguay and the spanish speaking parts of the continent of South America disagree.

    Jesus Liverpools lawyers are going to have a bloody field day with this mess.

    This was found to be completely untrue...

    Edit: Did you actually read the report at all? It clearly says that it was found that the term Suarez used would have been deemed offensive/racist in all over Latin America including Uruguay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,497 ✭✭✭quarryman


    So in short Evra has failed to be reprimanded for his use of swear words,accusing the referee of booking him because he is black and threatening to punch an opponent on multiple occasions and Suarez has been banned for using the Spanish word for "Black" either 5,7,8 or ten times.

    Evra has suddenly changed from a wholly unreliable witness to a paragon of virtue and Suarez has been branded a racist though both the FA and Evra plus the whole of Uruguay and the spanish speaking parts of the continent of South America disagree.

    Jesus Liverpools lawyers are going to have a bloody field day with this mess.

    Evra, wasn't being charged here, what part of that do seem to have trouble understanding? Direct the attention away from Suarez all you like but he's the guilty party here, do your best to come to terms with that.

    The whole of Uruguay and the Spanish speaking parts of south America? So basically, every single person in south America except Brazil?

    Are you still hanging on to the Negrito term? If so, you should probably read the report and consider changing your position on that one.

    Jesus, what an awful post.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    eugeneious wrote: »
    This was found to be completely untrue...

    There were a lot of findings in the report. I would possibly dismiss all of them out of hand. It's a tarnished process.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    It surely is alright and here's hoping the FA get called out for it by the clubs lawyers.

    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.
    Where in the report did it find Suarez was a racist?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.

    I'm not really up for engaging with you all that much because I doubt much thought went into your post.. but... did it?

    I mean, do you really consider anyone who is questioning the validity of the report to be a racist?

    Do you really consider Luis Suarez to be a "racist" even though everybody involved in the process has categorically stated that they do not believe he is a racist?

    Or are you simply stating these things in order to lash out and try for some kind of reaction, using ill thought out and cliched angry statements?

    Just curious, like.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Where in the report did it find Suarez was a racist?

    I don't think such a stupid question is worthy of an answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    MD1990 wrote: »
    i don't understand how Evra is a reliable witness
    he falsly accused a Chelsea groundman of racism in 2008

    He's not. There is only the word of a serial accuser backed by a panel of xenophobes who, finding themselves unable to use evidence, picked the story that suited their bias and their agenda the best.
    Are you a complete dunce or do you just act like it on purpose?

    Serial accuser my hole.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    I don't think such a stupid question is worthy of an answer.
    Didnt think you could back it up!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    Didnt think you could back it up!

    You'd want to quit while your ahead, its getting embarrassing at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    Where in the report did it find Suarez was a racist?

    It didn't say he was a racist - but the problem for Suarez is, the 'racist' tag is backed up legally and fans/journalists/whoever are lawfully entitled to say he is a racist as he was found guilty of racial abusing another player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Blatter wrote: »
    It didn't say he was a racist - but the problem for Suarez is, the 'racist' tag is backed up legally and fans/journalists/whoever are lawfully entitled to think he is a racist as he was found guilty of racial abusing another player.

    Lawfully entitled? Nope. The report was careful they don't see Suarez as a racist and outlined reasons why, very careful and specific as to that. That'll be forgotten as you say and the report took account of that on the penalty!

    They can legally think whatever they want, there is no legal impediment on thought!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    So in short Evra has failed to be reprimanded for his use of swear words,accusing the referee of booking him because he is black and threatening to punch an opponent on multiple occasions and Suarez has been banned for using the Spanish word for "Black" either 5,7,8 or ten times.

    Evra has suddenly changed from a wholly unreliable witness to a paragon of virtue and Suarez has been branded a racist though both the FA and Evra plus the whole of Uruguay and the spanish speaking parts of the continent of South America disagree.

    Jesus Liverpools lawyers are going to have a bloody field day with this mess.
    Come off it. That reply proves one thing. You have not read the report. The report answers those questions.

    Look i am sure Suarez is not proud of what happened but he did wrong and he myst pay the price.
    Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and is a better person and a player as a result.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    K-9 wrote: »
    Lawfully entitled? Nope. The report was careful they don't see Suarez as a racist and outlined reasons why, very careful and specific as to that. That'll be forgotten as you say and the report took account of that on the penalty!

    They can legally think whatever they want, there is no legal impediment on thought!

    They can legally call him a racist is what I meant, obviously people can think whatever they like.

    The Mirror's headline ''racist'' when he was found guilty would be an example where legally, they were allowed run with that headline.

    Yeah, Suarez will no doubt be branded a racist by the vast majority of people, especially seeing as the FA's report vehemently dismissed any possibility of cultural differences being to blame.

    The ''racist'' tag is the severe price you pay when you open your mouth and racially abuse someone and are found guilty of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Blatter wrote: »
    They can legally call him a racist is what I meant, obviously people can think whatever they like.

    The Mirror's headline ''racist'' when he was found guilty would be an example where legally, they were allowed run with that headline.

    Yeah, Suarez will no doubt be branded a racist by the vast majority of people, especially seeing as the FA's report vehemently dismissed any possibility of cultural differences being to blame.

    The ''racist'' tag is the severe price you pay when you open your mouth and racially abuse someone and are found guilty of it.

    Despite Evra not saying he's a racist?

    Such is the brain of the football fan and Mirror reader I suppose.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.

    Houston, we have a winner.

    You support Utd which harbours adulterers which obviously means you do the dirt on your missus right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.

    Houston, we have a winner.

    You support Utd which harbours adulterers which obviously means you do the dirt on your missus right?
    Was he on here defending adulterers????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    K-9 wrote: »
    Despite Evra not saying he's a racist?

    Such is the brain of the football fan and Mirror reader I suppose.

    The fact Evra said he doesn't believe him to be a racist will be ignored by the majority.

    Some people have the opinion that if you racially abuse someone, you are a racist, like if you drink drive once, you are a drink driver.

    People are entitled to that opinion. Suarez won't be taking anybody to court for libel over being called a racist, he can't.

    I don't personally believe Suarez is a racist but others won't agree and are entitled not to. That's all I'm saying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    IMO only a fellow racist would support a racist. Not to mention just making up stuff about xenophobia and serial accusations to support their point of view.

    Houston, we have a winner.

    You support Utd which harbours adulterers which obviously means you do the dirt on your missus right?

    Find one post supporting giggs'd adultery, I don't recall anyone that doesn't lambast him.


    That said I agree with your point of view, supporting liverpool obviously doesn't make you a racist, it's just WUM's being WUM's tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Blatter wrote: »
    The fact Evra said he doesn't believe him to be a racist will be ignored by the majority.

    Some people have the opinion that if you racially abuse someone, you are a racist, like if you drink drive once, you are a drink driver.

    People are entitled to that opinion. Suarez won't be taking anybody to court for libel over being called a racist, he can't.

    I don't personally believe Suarez is a racist but others won't agree and are entitled not to. That's all I'm saying.

    Yep, despite the report going to pains to say he isn't racist and plenty of grounds not to think it.

    A one line headline in the Mirror sums up the average football fan and I'm sure the Mirror, the Mail and S*n will revel in this tomorrow.

    Sadly the vast majority of people will base their opinion on what the rags tell them. As one of the political witnesses at the hacking tribunal said, you don't ignore News International when they have a majority of the readership figures. Quantity not Quality! Add in the Mail and the Mirror...................

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭NickDrake


    Blatter wrote: »
    The fact Evra said he doesn't believe him to be a racist will be ignored by the majority.

    Some people have the opinion that if you racially abuse someone, you are a racist, like if you drink drive once, you are a drink driver.

    People are entitled to that opinion. Suarez won't be taking anybody to court for libel over being called a racist, he can't.

    I don't personally believe Suarez is a racist but others won't agree and are entitled not to. That's all I'm saying.

    So what you are saying is that it is perfectly fine to racially abuse someone and expect to get away with it?

    If you go up to every black person you see in town and say " hey you blackie black etc" and they hold your hands up and say " I am not a racist, I am just saying a racist term"

    Abolsute madness. He deserve everything he gets.

    Saying racist slurs to people is digusting and I can't believe people on here are condoning it. Dear god it is 2012 and we are still stuck in the stone age.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,034 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Houston, we have a winner.

    You support Utd which harbours adulterers which obviously means you do the dirt on your missus right?

    LOL at this and the people that thanked it. Nit picking at posts, childish arguments, twisting words and the likes. This thread is turned to muck yet again.

    I just hope Suarez learns from this regardless of what he said, meant to have said or what other not so nice things he's done in the past.

    I hope Terry gets the equivalent or worse banning for what he's done.

    Happy new year lads... I personally hope the red side of Manchester is more happier than the blue side come the end of May this year. Night!


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