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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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Comments

  • #5042
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    K-9 wrote: »
    The balance of probabilities is in no logical way utterly conclusive, except to biased observers!

    the balance of probabilities is the standard by which these cases are heard. if liverpool dont like it, they can leave the football association and join the spl or something. in their membership they accept the rules and the way these cases are handled. i dont recall them having any issue with it before


  • #5043
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    How utterly pathetic is this.


    This report is utterly conclusive that Suarez is guilty


    The only shambles here is the behaviour of Liverpool fans

    Your response is pathetic in all honesty .

    This report proves and tallies exactly with the LFC statement and that is they made a ruling on hearsay between two people involved.

    Crazy !


  • #5044
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    monkey9 wrote: »
    Yep, that's the reason. You'd need proof to charge Suarez, tbh and that's something the FA don't have.

    no, you'd need someone to report it to the police for it to become a criminal matter, which is what happened with terry


  • #5045
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    K-9 wrote: »
    The balance of probabilities is in no logical way utterly conclusive, except to biased observers!


    Im sorry, but what the ****?


    Do you know how the civil court works at all?


    Are you saying that every single civil court decision for the past hundred years or so is completely invalid?


  • #5046
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,977 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Handsome Bob wrote: »
    This is what I meant in the other thread when I said that Suarez talked himself into a guilty verdict. There's no compelling evidence against him but the problem is that Suarez's accounts of what happened illicited too many inconsistencies.


    So If he kept his mouth shut he would have been found innocent?


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  • #5047
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    So If he kept his mouth shut he would have been found innocent?
    If he kept his mouth shut none of this would have happened.


  • #5048
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    So If he kept his mouth shut he would have been found innocent?

    it hed had the decency, or good advice from the club, to come out immediately afterwards and clear the whole thing up this would have blown over. he used a term that could have been perceived to be racist, so he needed to get right out there, apologise publicly for any potential misunderstanding arising from his use of a word from this native tongue that could be taken the wrong way, outline his stance against racism in all forms, and declare that he would refrain from using potentially sensitive words in future

    thats all this thing needed

    instead we got kenny dalgleish in a fcuking suarez tshirt


  • #5049
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    So If he kept his mouth shut he would have been found innocent?

    No, but if he was consistent in what he said from the moment he gave his original interview then the FA would have been faced with an impossible stalemate.


  • #5050
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,466 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Your response is pathetic in all honesty .

    This report proves and tallies exactly with the LFC statement and that is they made a ruling on hearsay between two people involved.

    Crazy !

    Not this bit:
    302. The position, therefore, is as follows. Mr Suarez spoke in Spanish to Mr Comolli soon after the game about this serious allegation. Mr Suarez also spoke in Dutch to Mr Kuyt. Both Mr Comolli and Mr Kuyt understood Mr Suarez to have told them that when he spoke to Mr Evra he said words which translate into English as, "Because you are black". According to Mr Suarez, Mr Comolli misheard what Mr Suarez said in Spanish, and Mr Kuyt misheard what Mr Suarez said in Dutch.

    Both Comoli and Kuyt reported similar accounts of the incident, which tally with Evra.


  • #5051
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    Fuhrer wrote: »

    Are you saying that every single civil court decision for the past hundred years or so is completely invalid?

    Seriously dude what are you on about ?


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  • #5052
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Seriously dude what are you on about ?

    hes on about the rubbish coming from people that the case was held up to different standards to legal cases, like all civil cases


  • #5053
    monkey9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    Helix wrote: »
    no, you'd need someone to report it to the police for it to become a criminal matter, which is what happened with terry

    Yeah, that's what i was replying to. Someone needs to report it!


  • #5054
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If this were a criminal case it would be thrown out of court if it actually got that far (I doubt it would get past the CPS review), despite everything it's still essentially a he said/she said argument. Suarez has been found guilty on the balance of probability, that Evra was a better witness than Suarez. Its a very thin verdict but one that stands for now.


  • #5055
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Seriously dude what are you on about ?



    The standard required in most civil cases is preponderance of the evidence, or balance of probabilities.

    This is what the FA used to reach their verdict.


    What he said was that it is a disgrace that the FA hold themselves to the standard of the Civil courts, implying that ever single verdict reached in a civil court is a disgrace and should be thrown out.

    I know this sounds ridiculous but this is what is seriously being thrown around by Liverpool supporters.


  • #5056
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,748 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    How utterly pathetic is this.


    This report is utterly conclusive that Suarez is guilty


    The only shambles here is the behaviour of Liverpool fans

    There is absolutely nothing conclusive at all in that report. 115 pages of vaguely justifying basing the whole decision on the word of one person over the other. A person the FA themselves have previously found to be unreliable.


  • #5057
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Helix wrote: »
    the balance of probabilities is the standard by which these cases are heard. if liverpool dont like it, they can leave the football association and join the spl or something. in their membership they accept the rules and the way these cases are handled. i dont recall them having any issue with it before

    Did I mention the FA in my post? Nope, so kindly reply to my posts and its context, not some stupid pointless crap about the FA.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #5058
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    The standard required in most civil cases is preponderance of the evidence, or balance of probabilities.

    This is what the FA used to reach their verdict.


    What he said was that it is a disgrace that the FA hold themselves to the standard of the Civil courts, implying that ever single verdict reached in a civil court is a disgrace and should be thrown out.

    I know this sounds ridiculous but this is what is seriously being thrown around by Liverpool supporters.

    Outdoing yourself here


  • #5059
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Im sorry, but what the ****?


    Do you know how the civil court works at all?


    Are you saying that every single civil court decision for the past hundred years or so is completely invalid?

    Do you see a probability as utterly conclusive?

    Explains a lot alright.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #5060
    Ordinary man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    The position, therefore, is as follows. Mr Suarez spoke in Spanish to Mr Comolli soon after
    the game about this serious allegation. Mr Suarez also spoke in Dutch to Mr Kuyt. Both
    Mr Comolli and Mr Kuyt understood Mr Suarez to have told them that when he spoke to
    Mr Evra he said words which translate into English as, "Because you are black". According
    to Mr Suarez, Mr Comolli misheard what Mr Suarez said in Spanish, and Mr Kuyt
    misheard what Mr Suarez said in Dutch


    This is a huge part in the decision. If one misheard him, fair enough. But to make out that they both misheard him in 2 different languages is a joke. It comes across as a cover up. It was not just evra's word but also comoli and kuyt before they were coached on what they should have said


  • #5061
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    mike65 wrote: »
    If this were a criminal case it would be thrown out of court if it actually got that far (I doubt it would get past the CPS review), despite everything it's still essentially a he said/she said argument. Suarez has been found guilty on the balance of probability, that Evra was a better witness than Suarez. Its a very thin verdict but one that stands for now.

    it wasn't a criminal case though so that's irrelevant


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  • #5062
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    K-9 wrote: »
    Do you see a probability as utterly conclusive?

    Explains a lot alright.


    Ok, you know more then the courts of law.

    Fantastic, and to think, some people think of Liverpool fans as deluded...


  • #5063
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,977 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Handsome Bob wrote: »
    No, but if he was consistent in what he said from the moment he gave his original interview then the FA would have been faced with an impossible stalemate.

    But was he not consistent in maintaining his innocence as much as Evra maintains his guilt? Is that still not an impossible stalemate?

    He's guilty because he was not consistent in what he says ?
    Sounds flimbsy to me - until he admits being guilty, I would like to see actual proof rather than being found guilty because one mans account is apparently more consistent than anothers.


  • #5064
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    But was he not consistent in maintaining his innocence as much as Evra maintains his guilt? Is that still not an impossible stalemate?

    He's guilty because he was not consistent in what he says ?
    Sounds flimbsy to me - until he admits being guilty, I would like to see actual proof rather than being found guilty because one mans account is apparently more consistent than anothers.



    No, hes guilty because he admitted to calling Evra a Negro, that hes a terrible liar just lessens his intergity


  • #5065
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    What he said was that it is a disgrace that the FA hold themselves to the standard of the Civil courts, implying that ever single verdict reached in a civil court is a disgrace and should be thrown out.

    I'd step away from the computer and stop making things up.

    Edit: Waste of time, joins the Muppett on ignore.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #5066
    stumpypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭stumpypeeps


    The FA have found Evra a more "impressive" witness. On this basis and their assessment of probability, they have decided to accept all of his evidence.

    Their verdict is final. Liverpool might appeal the ban but there is no point in contesting the verdict.


  • #5067
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    K-9 wrote: »
    I'd step away from the computer and stop making things up.

    Edit: Waste of time, joins the Muppett on ignore.


    Hold on here, are you denying that that is the standard of proof for a civil court?


  • #5068
    SoulTrader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭SoulTrader


    It's a pretty damning report all in all.

    Evra has claimed that Suarez said that he kicked Evra because he's black. That's reprehensible and I think it's fair to conclude that if Suarez kicks someone because they're black, then he's a racist. That's much worse than any verbally racist behavior, that has previously been discussed on here.
    Mr Evra's evidence was that, in response to his question "Why did you kick me?", Mr Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro". Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suarez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean "Because you are a ******". He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suarez mean "Because you are black".

    I hope Liverpool do the decent thing and apologize for the incident now, there's no need to keep dragging the club's name through the mud.


  • #5069
    stumpypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭stumpypeeps


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    No, hes guilty because he admitted to calling Evra a Negro, that hes a terrible liar just lessens his intergity

    I think you need to calm down. People will make up their own mind about the verdict, you're not going to convince anyone to change their mind.


  • #5070
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    No, hes guilty because he admitted to calling Evra a Negro, that hes a terrible liar just lessens his intergity

    Again, the report established that the word negro wasn't the problem, it was the context of how it was used that was.


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  • #5071
    spockety
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Are the FA going to charge Evra now for being abusive towards Suarez? "Your sister's c**t" I believe was his opening remark to Suarez.


This discussion has been closed.
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