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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer



    Mr Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because
    you are black". Mr Evra then said to Mr Suarez “say it to me again, I’m going to punch
    you”. Mr Suarez replied "No hablo con los negros", meaning "I don't speak to blacks". Mr
    Evra continued by saying that he now thought he was going to punch Mr Suarez. Mr
    Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", which meant "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie

    Pretty damning this, no cultural misunderstanding here, just straight up Racist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    eigrod wrote: »
    I love this piece :



    Poor Evra needed a mammy figure to accompany him. FFS.



    Where as Suarez didnt?
    Mr Suarez was accompanied by an interpreter from the Club (Mr
    Adrian McGrath), Ms Ward and Ms Wignall


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    As much as it pains me to say it, upon a rough read of the accounts given by both players and the reasoning for the FA's decision, I can't argue against it. The inconsistencies of Suarez's accounts are the killer here. Suarez has talked his way into this situation unfortunately and in a way, has crucified himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,075 ✭✭✭IamtheWalrus


    Why isn't Suarez charged like John Terry? Is it only because no one complained to the cops as was the case with JT?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,402 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Pretty damning this, no cultural misunderstanding here, just straight up Racist.

    There is no facepalm picture to do this justice.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,986 ✭✭✭eigrod


    As much as it pains me to say it, upon a rough read of the accounts given by both players and the reasoning for the FA's decision, I can't argue against it. The inconsistencies of Suarez's accounts are the killer here. Suarez has talked his way into this situation unfortunately and in a way, has crucified himself.

    Whereas Evra's wasn't inconsistent at all ?
    When, shortly after the match, he went to see the referee with the manager, Mr Evra
    complained that Mr Suarez had said "I don't talk to you because you ****". Mr Evra
    told us that he believed, from the moment he heard Mr Suarez use the word “negro”, that
    this meant ******. The Commission asked Mr Evra why, then, did he not tell the referee
    that he had been called ******, as opposed to black. Mr Evra's answer was that even when
    he pronounced the word "****", it was not a word he liked to use. He added that
    maybe it was also because he was speaking in English, that "black" was the English word
    in his mind, and he felt he had done enough to complain by telling the referee that he had
    been called black.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    There is no facepalm picture to do this justice.

    I think that applies to your response more than Fuhrer's post tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    Why isn't Suarez charged like John Terry? Is it only because no one complained to the cops as was the case with JT?

    Yeah I'm thinking that too. Terry got criminal charges or something didn't he?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    someone reported it to the police in the case of terry


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭Morzadec


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Pretty damning this, no cultural misunderstanding here, just straight up Racist.

    Of course it's pretty damning, it's Evra's version of events!

    Suarez's version is completely different


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    eigrod wrote: »
    Whereas Evra's wasn't inconsistent at all ?


    Oh yes, mixing up Negro and ******, so inconsistent!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    From what I have read there is no real hard evidence , just versions of the events from both players, and versions of events from people who would have heard it from both players,

    Seems it just boiled down to the FA believing that Evra's version of events was probably what happened because he was consistent in his evidence, whereas they felt that Suarez was inconsistent.

    There is nothing to say or that can prove that one version of the events had to be true, so for me it is a dodgy path to take. I look forward to the next such incident.

    From my reading of it, even with the FA coming to that verdict I think 8 games is harsh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Morzadec wrote: »
    Of course it's pretty damning, it's Evra's version of events!

    Suarez's version is completely different


    Yes, its very different, different to his own


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Very long, here are the findings pros/cons
    Aggravating factors

    430. We then considered the factors that supported a greater penalty than the entry point of a four-match suspension ("aggravating factors").

    431. The first aggravating factor was the number of times Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or
    "negros". The entry point of a four-match suspension could apply in a case where the
    alleged offender had used insulting words including a reference to colour once only
    during a match. We have found that Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or "negros" seven
    times in his exchanges with Mr Evra. It happened, also, in a number of phases. First, there
    were the exchanges in the goalmouth. Secondly, there was the exchange just before the
    referee spoke to the players. Thirdly, there was the exchange just after the referee had
    spoken to the players. Whilst we recognised that the exchanges occurred over only a two minute spell in the second half of the match, there were multiple uses of the insulting words by Mr Suarez.

    432. The second aggravating factor was what Mr Suarez said when using the insulting words.

    He did not simply use the word "negro" to address Mr Evra. He did that, but he also said
    that he had kicked Mr Evra because he was black, and that he did not talk to blacks. Even if Mr Suarez said these things in the heat of the moment without really meaning them, nevertheless this was more than just calling Mr Evra "negro". According to the Spanish language experts, the uses would have been regarded as racially offensive in Uruguay.

    433. The third aggravating factor was the context in which Mr Suarez used the insulting words. The context was of an acrimonious exchange, which included Mr Suarez pinching Mr Evra's skin and putting his hand on the back of his head, both of which we found were an attempt by Mr Suarez to wind up Mr Evra. Although we have found that the pinching itself was not insulting behaviour nor did it refer to Mr Evra's colour, such physical contact as part of a confrontation in which the insulting words were used served to aggravate the misconduct.

    434. The fourth aggravating factor was the fact that the FA has promoted campaigns to root out all forms of unacceptable behaviour related to a person's ethnic origin, colour or race in football, such as the "Kick It Out" campaign. Mr Suarez knew or ought to have known that his behaviour was contrary to the message of those campaigns and unacceptable.

    435. The fifth aggravating factor was that the insulting words were targeted by Mr Suarez at one particular black player, Mr Evra, who Mr Suarez intended should hear the words. It was not a case of a comment or comments directed at no-one in particular. Rather the words were directed at Mr Evra in the context of an argument in which Mr Suarez was attempting to wind up Mr Evra. We accept that Mr Evra was angry and upset during the remainder of the game and at the end of it as a result of Mr Suarez using the insulting words.

    Mitigating factors

    436. We also considered the mitigating factors. The first mitigating factor was that Mr Suarez had a clean record in relation to charges of this type.

    437. The second mitigating factor was that Mr Evra started the confrontation in the goalmouth and Mr Suarez reacted to it. It is important to point out that Mr Evra's conduct in starting the confrontation was in response to being fouled, which involved being kicked on a knee which had caused him trouble in the past. Mr Evra did not touch Mr Suarez and, whilst he used an offensive phrase which Mr Suarez did not hear, Mr Evra did not use any words which referred to Mr Suarez's ethnic origin, colour, race or nationality. Nevertheless, he was the initiator of the confrontation at this moment.

    438. The third mitigating factor concerns Mr Suarez's personal situation in terms of his family, friends and those who look up to him, especially in Uruguay. We recognise that his
    behaviour during the match is likely to become widely known as a result of our decision
    with the consequent embarrassment and personal difficulty for him.

    439. The fourth mitigating factor is Mr Suarez's charitable work, especially through the South Africa football project. We recognise that Mr Suarez has made a valuable contribution through that project, although a player who does so should be especially careful not to undermine the principle underlying such a project by his own behaviour on a football pitch.

    440. The fifth mitigating factor is that we believe that Mr Suarez has learned a lesson through the experience of these proceedings. He told us that he would not use the word "negro" on a football pitch in England in the future and it would be highly surprising if he did so.

    Conclusions on penalty

    441. The use by a footballer of insulting words, which include reference to another player's colour, is wholly unacceptable. It is wrong in principle. It is also wrong because
    footballers, such as Mr Suarez, are looked up to and admired by a great many football
    fans, especially young fans. If professional footballers use racially insulting language on a
    football pitch, this is likely to have a corrosive effect on young football fans, some of
    whom are the professional footballers of the future. It also has a potentially damaging
    effect on the wider football community and society generally. Every professional
    footballer should be able to play competitive football in the knowledge that references to
    the colour of his skin will not be tolerated. The same goes for all levels of football. Those
    who are victims of misconduct of this nature should know that, if they complain and their
    complaint is upheld, the FA will impose an appropriate penalty which reflects the gravity
    of this type of misconduct.

    442. There is no tariff set down for penalty in such cases. There is the guidance in Rule E3(2) to which we have referred. Having heard the evidence over several days and made our detailed findings, we have weighed the aggravating and mitigating factors against each other. Having done so, in our judgment an appropriate and proportionate penalty is an eight-match suspension, a fine of £40,000 and a warning as to future conduct.

    443. As for the length of the suspension, we concluded that a four-match ban, which was the entry point under Rule E3(2), would be too low and would not reflect the gravity of the misconduct. Mr Suarez's behaviour was far more serious than a single use of the word "negro" to address Mr Evra in a way which would be considered inoffensive in Uruguay.

    If that was all that Mr Suarez had done, and we had found the Charge proved, the penalty would have been less than we have imposed.

    444. Ultimately, this is not a matter of mathematical calculation, but a matter for the exercise of our discretion in the light of all the circumstances. We considered a lower suspension; we considered a greater suspension. We concluded that an eight-match suspension was appropriate and proportionate, reflecting the seriousness of the misconduct, balanced against the mitigation that was urged on us.

    445. We also fined Mr Suarez £40,000. In doing so, we took account of the information that was
    placed before us about his weekly salary. We considered this to be appropriate and
    proportionate in the light of Mr Suarez's misconduct.

    446. We also warned Mr Suarez as to his future conduct. This is customary where misconduct
    charges are upheld, although we did not impose it simply as a matter of course. We
    considered it appropriate and proportionate to warn him not to repeat this misconduct.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Mr Evra's answer was that even when
    he pronounced the word "****", it was not a word he liked to use.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭bohsman


    Morzadec wrote: »
    Of course it's pretty damning, it's Evra's version of events!

    Suarez's version is completely different

    They should hold an inquiry to find out who was telling the truth...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    From what I have read there is no real hard evidence , just versions of the events from both players, and versions of events from people who would have heard it from both players,

    Seems it just boiled down to the FA believing that Evra's version of events was probably what happened because he was consistent in his evidence, whereas they felt that Suarez was inconsistent.

    There is nothing to say or that can prove that one version of the events had to be true, so for me it is a dodgy path to take. I look forward to the next such incident.

    From my reading of it, even with the FA coming to that verdict I think 8 games is harsh.

    Suarez admitted he used to word Negro and it is clearly mentioned in the report.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    this is pretty shocking to be honest.
    The
    Dutch words which Mr Kuyt recalled Mr Suarez using were "omdat je zwart bent
    mag...waarom mag ik je daarom niet aanraken". Mr Kuyt explained to us that the initial
    phrase in this passage means "because you are black", i.e. omdat (because) je (you) zwart
    (black) bent (are)

    and even more shocking, is liverpool fans are still blaming everybody else. cant imagine glen johnson will be too happy tonight. this is a sad sad day for liverpool football club.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From what I have read there is no real hard evidence , just versions of the events from both players, and versions of events from people who would have heard it from both players,

    Seems it just boiled down to the FA believing that Evra's version of events was probably what happened because he was consistent in his evidence, whereas they felt that Suarez was inconsistent.

    There is nothing to say or that can prove that one version of the events had to be true, so for me it is a dodgy path to take. I look forward to the next such incident.

    From my reading of it, even with the FA coming to that verdict I think 8 games is harsh.
    I'm sure that what has been reported here is pretty much what happened and while I thought before that 8 games might be a bit harsh if he used the word once the fact that he used it multiple times in a malicious way warrants longer than 8 games.

    Any Liverpool fans still defending him must be purely deluded. He made a mistake and he's paying for it. The club have acted shamefully.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Fair play to Kuyt, he could have kept his mouth shut.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    So it turns out all the bull**** info about Evra saying he was only being booked because he was black is complete bull**** that could have only been leaked by Liverpool


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,986 ✭✭✭eigrod


    Fair play to Kuyt, he could have kept his mouth shut.

    And Evra's thrown in accusations against Kuyt as well saying he said something that Kuyt said he didn't say at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    So it turns out all the bull**** info about Evra saying he was only being booked because he was black is complete bull**** that could have only been leaked by Liverpool

    Dagleish's response on hearing it was - "hasn't he done this before?".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,986 ✭✭✭eigrod


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    So it turns out all the bull**** info about Evra saying he was only being booked because he was black is complete bull**** that could have only been leaked by Liverpool

    Kuyt says he said it. Referee said he's not sure what he said. Evra said he didn't say it.

    All over that report it's a case of accepting Evra's arguments and dismissing Suarez's and Kuyt's. It stinks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    eigrod wrote: »
    Kuyt says he said it. Referee said he's not sure what he said. Evra said he didn't say it.

    All over that report it's a case of accepting Evra's arguments and dismissing Suarez's and Kuyt's. It stinks.

    Kuyt and comoli tried to change their statements to say they misheard suarez in 2 different languages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    So it turns out all the bull**** info about Evra saying he was only being booked because he was black is complete bull**** that could have only been leaked by Liverpool

    I presume it stems from this surely ?
    Mr Kuyt said that he was very close to Mr Evra and the referee at this time. He said he was "absolutely certain" that he heard Mr Evra say that the referee was only booking him because he was black

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    From what I have read there is no real hard evidence , just versions of the events from both players, and versions of events from people who would have heard it from both players,

    Seems it just boiled down to the FA believing that Evra's version of events was probably what happened because he was consistent in his evidence, whereas they felt that Suarez was inconsistent.

    There is nothing to say or that can prove that one version of the events had to be true, so for me it is a dodgy path to take. I look forward to the next such incident.

    From my reading of it, even with the FA coming to that verdict I think 8 games is harsh.

    That's it in a nutshell, Suarez contradicted himself one too many times. The charge was always going to be heavy if found guilty though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    opr wrote: »
    I presume it stems from this surely ?



    Opr

    Yes, where both Evra and the referee deny it.


    Its pretty safe to say that Kuyt heard it wrong


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    eigrod wrote: »
    All over that report it's a case of accepting Evra's arguments and dismissing Suarez's and Kuyt's. It stinks.

    For God's sake there is a near 500 page document explaining the decision. Independent experts were used. Suarez ADMITS he said it (the debate is about how often and in what context). Nothing stinks. He made a terrible error and is being punished accordingly.

    That this case has come down to the usual willy waving shíte between Liverpool and United on here is shameful.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,402 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Yes, where both Evra and the referee deny it.


    Its pretty safe to say that Kuyt heard it wrong


    Using the F.A's logic it is pretty safe to say he is guilty.


This discussion has been closed.
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