Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

Dublin_Gunner · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

Keano A Legend wrote: »

So did Suarez and look where it got him.

Accordign to what Evra said.

Would ya looks at all the Mancs floating in here now. Typical.

Ordinary man · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

And what was dagleish's first reply when told of the accusation - "hasn't he done this before". Well done kk.

spockety · 31-12-2011 06:39PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Accordign to what Evra said.

Would ya looks at all the Mancs floating in here now. Typical.

They need some distraction today.

Samich · 31-12-2011 06:39PM

spockety wrote: »

I like the way you only quote what Evra said happened.

Why have you not quoted what Suarez says he said?

They are two completely different versions of events. They couldn't be more miles apart.

Is there anything from any witness or other evidence which corroborates that the words used were the ones described by Evra?

You say this as if it's a fact this is miles away from the fact. Could be spot on. Why is it a given that this isn't fact?

argosy2006 · 31-12-2011 06:40PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Any mention of the alleged ''sudaca'' remark from Evra?

Evra did call him a ''south american'' But he plays for Man U, So he can dish it out, just not take it ,

Keano · 31-12-2011 06:40PM

Reading a journalist comment from Twitter.

This might be key line in FA findings: Suarez's explanation for calling Evra a negro "was unsustainable and simply incredible"

Kess73 · 31-12-2011 06:40PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

If that is the actual truth as to what happened then 8 games would not be a long enough ban in my eyes and no appeal would be needed.

But a few things don't quite sit right for me....

So Evra, a fluent spanish speaker, took the word Negro in spanish to mean n*gg*er and then said that he later took it to mean Blackie instead? Seems a very strange mistake for a Spanish speaker to make.

But if Suarez was charged just on Evra's word without any solid evidence then it makes the FA a joke.

Also if the FA believe what Evra says regarding Suarez, then why are they not taking action against Kuyt seeing as Evra is meant to have claimed that Kuyt called him a prick in an abusive manner during the same goalmouth incident?

5starpool · 31-12-2011 06:40PM

I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. Still looks like one mans word against another. Mentions having other non broadcast footage, but doesn't say yet whether this proves Evra's case.

31-12-2011 06:41PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

And what was dagleish's first reply when told of the accusation - "hasn't he done this before". Well done kk.

I love the way you are picking out bits to suit your argument.

Typical :cool:

Ordinary man · 31-12-2011 06:41PM

I like this part also

The position, therefore, is as follows. Mr Suarez spoke in Spanish to Mr Comolli soon after
the game about this serious allegation. Mr Suarez also spoke in Dutch to Mr Kuyt. Both
Mr Comolli and Mr Kuyt understood Mr Suarez to have told them that when he spoke to
Mr Evra he said words which translate into English as, "Because you are black". According
to Mr Suarez, Mr Comolli misheard what Mr Suarez said in Spanish, and Mr Kuyt
misheard what Mr Suarez said in Dutch

Keano · 31-12-2011 06:41PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Accordign to what Evra said.

Would ya looks at all the Mancs floating in here now. Typical.

Not a Manc - far from it. My sig might help ya out.

Leiva · 31-12-2011 06:42PM

Has anyone come across reference to video or witness evidence yet ??

jesus_thats_gre · 31-12-2011 06:44PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Has anyone come across reference to video or witness evidence yet ??

Yes, read that they got footage from various angles that was not previously broadcast.

Samich · 31-12-2011 06:45PM

how do you know Evra is fluent in Spanish?

opr · 31-12-2011 06:45PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Has anyone come across reference to video or witness evidence yet ??

Funny enough only in the reference to the first remark which was made by Evra and the literal translation means "your sister's pussy". This can be seen on camera according to the report.

Opr

Keano · 31-12-2011 06:46PM

Samich wrote: »

how do you know Evra is fluent in Spanish?

He has said himself he is not fluent but can converse in Spanish.

31-12-2011 06:46PM

So Suarez did hear Evra....

Dalglish said to me that Suarez had told him that he had said to Evra "you are
black", having been taunted by Evra with the comment "you are South American".

jesus_thats_gre · 31-12-2011 06:47PM

Samich wrote: »

how do you know Evra is fluent in Spanish?

I think that it said that it was in the document too.

J. Marston · 31-12-2011 06:47PM

Mr Suarez's evidence was unreliable in relation to matters of critical importance.
It was, in part, inconsistent with the contemporaneous evidence, especially the
video footage. For example, Mr Suarez said that he pinched Mr Evra's skin in an
attempt to defuse the situation. He also said that his use of the word "negro" to
address Mr Evra was conciliatory and friendly. We rejected that evidence. To 113
describe his own behaviour in that way was unsustainable and simply incredible
given that the players were engaged in an acrimonious argument. That this was
put forward by Mr Suarez was surprising and seriously undermined the
reliability of his evidence on other matters (paragraphs 235 to 267 above). There
were also inconsistencies between his accounts given at different times as to
what happened (paragraphs 282 to 318).

...

31-12-2011 06:50PM

Evra reported to the ref with Fergie that he was abused five times but in the interview with Canel this changed to ten times.

argosy2006 · 31-12-2011 06:51PM

Evra told us that he began the conversation by saying "Concha de tu hermana".Mr Evra's
evidence was that this is a phrase used in Spanish like when you say "****ing hell" in English, but the literal translation is "your sister's pussy".

So Evra started it !!

Kess73 · 31-12-2011 06:51PM

Point 272 is interesting. Evra took offence to the word/words he heard Suarez speak in Spanish based on Evra's understanding of what the word meant in Italian.

It seemed to us that Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro" was influenced
by his knowledge of Italian. In his interview with the FA on 20 October, Mr Evra said that
he thought "nero" meant "black", whereas "negro" meant "******". This was what he
thought from his knowledge of Italian, and he went away to check the position in Spanish.
However, he did say in that same interview that it was still unacceptable to be told that
you had been kicked because you were black. The expert witnesses told us that the
Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as "******".

Ahh that's alright then, use a different language for the meaning of the word other than the one it was spoken in.:rolleyes:

Samich · 31-12-2011 06:51PM

I don't care anyways about this really, I don't think Suarez is a racist. He said it in the heat of the moment. Evra isn't a liar. Best off to forget about it all.

Morzadec · 31-12-2011 06:53PM

''Mr Suarez said that he
turned to Mr Evra and said "Por que, negro?". He said that he used the word "negro" at
this point in the way that he did when he was growing up in Uruguay, that is as a friendly
form of address to people seen as black or brown-skinned or even just black-haired. He
said that he used it in the same way that he did when he spoke to Glen Johnson, the black
Liverpool player. He said in no way was the use of the word "negro" intended to be
offensive or to be racially offensive. It was intended as an attempt at conciliation.''

spockety · 31-12-2011 06:54PM

If you take Suarez's version to be the correct one:

194. The experts concluded their observations on Mr Suarez's account as follows. If Mr Suarez
used the word "negro" as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either
offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America more
generally; it is being used along the lines of paragraphs 172, 173 and 175 above.

5live · 31-12-2011 06:56PM

Well this thread gone to s**t again:mad:

Morzadec · 31-12-2011 06:57PM

''Sir Alex Ferguson and Patrice Evra entered my dressing room to register an official
complaint about a comment made to Patrice Evra by Liverpool player Luis Suarez.
During a coming together in the penalty area in the second half of play, Luis Suarez
is alleged to have said to Patrice Evra "I don't talk to you because you ****''

Well that's completely false - there's no word in Spanish that is as loaded and has the racial connotations of '******' in English which is highly offensive.

I really think Evra misinterpreted Suarez's comment, overreacted and had to follow through with his overreaction.

Hedman · 31-12-2011 06:58PM

The crux of the issue is that Suarez has admitted he used the term "negro". Negro is a racial term, therefore Suarez is guilty of using a racial term. Quite simple really, where it gets complicated is how it was intentioned and the reports says that the FA brought in language experts to determine that and according to them it was clear he didn't mean it in a nice way.

Kess73 · 31-12-2011 06:58PM

5live wrote: »

Well this thread gone to s**t again:mad:

Yeah, you would swear it was news that had just broken involving a Liverpool player the way people are talking about it.

spockety · 31-12-2011 06:59PM

On the video evidence:

The footage was
not of any real direct assistance in terms of what was said by Mr Suarez in the goalmouth.
It was not possible to try and lip-read what Mr Suarez said largely because his face was
obscured at the crucial moments, either because his back was to the camera behind the
goal, or because his face was obscured by a camera fixed to the back stanchion.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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