Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

ASOT · 31-12-2011 06:12PM

In 2011 fernando Torres scored more goals for Liverpool, 4 in January, than he did for Chelsea, 3 for the rest of the year.

hahahah brilliant.

31-12-2011 06:13PM

Morzadec wrote: »

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx

Is this for real?

monkey9 · 31-12-2011 06:14PM

The Guardian's Daniel Taylor just tweeted ....Evra's case: asked Suarez why he had kicked him, Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because you are black"

Morzadec · 31-12-2011 06:15PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is this for real?

It was linked by Phil McNulty from the BBC and looks genuine so I would think so.

Very very differing reports from Suarez and Evra.

If Evra's account is accurate Suarez's ban is fully justified; if Suarez is telling the truth I would think a warning and perhaps a fine is all that is warranted. Reading through it now so not sure why they chose to hand such a heavy punishment or believe Evra's version, haven't got that far...

31-12-2011 06:17PM

If that report is accurate(evra's account), Suarez need not appeal.

Morzadec · 31-12-2011 06:17PM

monkey9 wrote: »

The Guardian's Daniel Taylor just tweeted ....Evra's case: asked Suarez why he had kicked him, Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because you are black"

Just to clarify, this is Evra's version of events. Not the referee's nor Suarez's

opr · 31-12-2011 06:18PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

If that report is accurate, Suarez need not appeal.

Why details ? It's far too long for me to be bothered reading it today.

Opr

Morzadec · 31-12-2011 06:19PM

''This
information enabled the FA to ask broadcasters to provide video footage of what
appeared to be the key moments of the game, so far as Mr Evra's complaint was
concerned. This video footage was provided in due course. It contained material which
was not broadcast, including footage of the exchanges in the penalty area in the 63rd
minute taken from a number of different camera angles''

Well this could be the evidence that did it. Why not release the evidence and prevent all the hullabaloo??!

Ordinary man · 31-12-2011 06:26PM

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

ilovelamp2000 · 31-12-2011 06:28PM

Where is this from ?

K-9 · 31-12-2011 06:29PM

mike65 wrote: »

1 Man City 18---38--45
2 Man Utd 19--- 32--45
3 Tottenham 18-15--39
4 Arsenal 19
9--36
5 Chelsea 19----13--34
6 Liverpool 19----9--34
7 Newcastle 19 --1--30

Just looking at the table this time last year:

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2010-2011/table/2011-01-01

9 points better off, and a game later the great Roy was gone after losing to Blackburn. Funnily enough we'd better home form and 2 more goals, the Away form and defence is way better.

4th and 5th not that different with Chelsea the exact same points and position.

31-12-2011 06:29PM

opr wrote: »

Why details ? It's far too long for me to be bothered reading it today.

Opr

Evra

In the goalmouth, Mr Evra and Mr Suarez spoke to
each other in Spanish. Mr Evra asked Mr Suarez why he had kicked him, referring to the
foul five minutes previously. Mr Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because
you are black". Mr Evra then said to Mr Suarez “say it to me again, I’m going to punch
you”. Mr Suarez replied "No hablo con los negros", meaning "I don't speak to blacks". Mr
Evra continued by saying that he now thought he was going to punch Mr Suarez. Mr
Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", which meant "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie".
As Mr Suarez said this, he reached out to touch Mr Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin. Mr
Kuyt then intervened. When the referee blew his whistle and called the players over to him shortly after the exchanges in the goalmouth, Mr Evra said to the referee "ref, ref, he
just called me a ****ing black".

Suarez

Mr Suarez denied the Charge. His case, in short, was as follows. He agreed with Mr Evra
that they spoke to each other in Spanish in the goalmouth. When Mr Evra asked why he
had kicked him, Mr Suarez replied that it was a normal foul and shrugged his shoulders.
Mr Evra then said that he was going to kick Mr Suarez, to which Mr Suarez told him to
shut up. As Mr Kuyt was approaching, Mr Suarez touched Mr Evra's left arm in a
pinching style movement. According to Mr Suarez, at no point in the goalmouth did he
use the word "negro". When the referee blew his whistle to stop play, Mr Evra spoke to Mr
Suarez and said (in English) "Don't touch me, South American". Mr Suarez replied "Por
que, negro?". He says that he used the word “negro” in a way with which he was familiar
from his upbringing in Uruguay. In this sense, Mr Suarez claimed, it is used as a noun and
as a friendly form of address to people seen as black or brown-skinned (or even just blackhaired).
Thus, it meant "Why, black?" Mr Suarez maintained that when he said "Por que,
negro?" to Mr Evra, it was intended in a conciliatory and friendly way. Mr Suarez said this was the only time that he used the word “negro” in his exchanges with Mr Evra during
the match.

Leiva · 31-12-2011 06:29PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

Just let me remind you that it's only one side your reading .

Unless there is solid 3rd party witness or video then I'm afraid the FA have made a massive blunder .

Dont be at yourself · 31-12-2011 06:29PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

If that's true, he should have the book thrown at him. But Evra's testimony by itself is not enough evidence. Was this caught on camera?

31-12-2011 06:30PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

Ok Mr Huts, that's Evra's account only :rolleyes:.

Turtyturd · 31-12-2011 06:31PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

Reading the side of the argument that you want to?...you should hang your head in shame. Think I will stick a few of these in too.:mad::mad::mad:

barone · 31-12-2011 06:31PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

evra said this, he also said kuyt called him a prick, which kuyt denied, and said also

Mr Evra and Mr Suarez are agreed that they spoke to each other in Spanish in the
goalmouth. Mr Evra said that he is not exactly fluent in Spanish but that he can easily
converse in Spanish. For Mr Suarez, Spanish is his native language as a Uruguayan. Mr
Evra told us that he began the conversation by saying "Concha de tu hermana". Mr Evra's
evidence was that this is a phrase used in Spanish like when you say "****ing hell" in 27
English, but the literal translation is "your sister's pussy". Mr Suarez did not hear Mr Evra
say this. One of the video clips that we have seen, taken from a close up angle behind the
goal, does appear to support Mr Evra's evidence that he started the conversation with this..

amazing what context turns one phrase into a racist one and one into a misunderstanding..

LuckyLloyd · 31-12-2011 06:31PM

Morzadec wrote: »

''This
information enabled the FA to ask broadcasters to provide video footage of what
appeared to be the key moments of the game, so far as Mr Evra's complaint was
concerned. This video footage was provided in due course. It contained material which
was not broadcast, including footage of the exchanges in the penalty area in the 63rd
minute taken from a number of different camera angles''

Well this could be the evidence that did it. Why not release the evidence and prevent all the hullabaloo??!

If this evidence exists and can verify that Evra's account of what was said is accurate, an appeal is probably not the correct course of action.

Situation remains straightforward: if decision is based on more (quality) evidence than the explanations of the player's involved then you don't appeal. If it is merely founded on the explanations - you appeal.

Turtyturd · 31-12-2011 06:33PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ok Mr Huts, that's Evra's account only :rolleyes:.

That's Hutz....with a Z.:cool:

Samich · 31-12-2011 06:33PM

Our findings of fact which are directly relevant to the Charge are as follows:

(1) In response to Mr Evra's question "Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in
golpe" ("Fúcking hell, why did you kick me"), Mr Suarez said "Porque tu eres
negro" ("Because you are black").

(2) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada"
("say it to me again, I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "No hablo con los
negros" ("I don't speak to blacks").

(3) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada"
("okay, now I think I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "Dale, negro,
negro, negro" ("okay, blackie, blackie, blackie).

I had to kind of smile at the last one, like a child in playschool rubbing it in someones face :pac:

K-9 · 31-12-2011 06:33PM

Morzadec wrote: »

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx

Nice New Years reading for the lawyers.

Leiva · 31-12-2011 06:34PM

Mods open up racism thread again and get this out of the LFC super thread please .

spockety · 31-12-2011 06:35PM

It is a big report. Haven't reached far enough to know if the commission took Evra's words at face value:

31.
In accordance with the Chairman's direction, the parties agreed that the following were,
simply stated, the issues which the Commission was required to address:
31.1. On the balance of probabilities, is the account of Mr Evra true and reliable?
31.2. If it is:
(a)
does that mean that Mr Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words
and/or behaviour towards Mr Evra, in breach of Rule E3(1); and
(b)
if it does, did the abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour of
Mr Suarez include a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or
race of Mr Evra within the meaning of Rule E3(2).
31.3.
If it is not:
(a)
on the account of Mr Suarez, did he use abusive and/or insulting words
and/or behaviour towards Mr Evra, in breach of Rule E3(1); and
13
(b)
if he did, did the abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour of
Mr Suarez include a reference to the ethnic origin an

31-12-2011 06:35PM

Kuyt

Mr Kuyt said that he
was very close to Mr Evra and the referee at this time. He said he was "absolutely certain"
that he heard Mr Evra say that the referee was only booking him because he was black

Keano · 31-12-2011 06:35PM

Samich wrote: »

I had to kind of smile at the last one, like a child in playschool rubbing it in someones face :pac:

So did Suarez and look where it got him.

spockety · 31-12-2011 06:36PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

This alone should finish the argument

Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora
te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch
you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr
Evra understood this to mean "Okay, ******, ******, ******". He now says it means "Okay,
blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be
understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph
184 below)

If lfc knew all this, they should hang their heads in shame. And a lot of ye need to reel your necks in:mad:

I like the way you only quote what Evra said happened.

Why have you not quoted what Suarez says he said?

They are two completely different versions of events. They couldn't be more miles apart.

Is there anything from any witness or other evidence which corroborates that the words used were the ones described by Evra?

argosy2006 · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

Those written reasons are opinions not fact,
Facts were never proved, They came to charge him on there own personal
opinions , It was his word against Suarez's ,Something that does not hold up in a court,
I see no prove fact in these findings, Just two different stories, and a charge brought on personal opinions, Joke!

J. Marston · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

Any mention of the alleged ''sudaca'' remark from Evra?

Samich · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

Keano A Legend wrote: »

So did Suarez and look where it got him.

Yeah. He deserves all he gets.

NukaCola · 31-12-2011 06:38PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ok Mr Huts, that's Evra's account only :rolleyes:.

Case closed......

I cant choose between the two accounts, its like...

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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