Denver Broncos Thread

spiralism · 31-12-2011 02:39AM

bruschi wrote: »

the whole thing with Tebow and McDaniels seems really weird to me. He was absolutley slated by the Denver fans over it, and made a huge scapegoat for wasting their future, yet it was the same fans who were screaming for Tebow to be put in this season. Just seems really fickle or something. Its like Tebow has this aura about him that just creates arguments! whether it be first round pick or not, causing a manager to be sacked (granted, there was a whole load of other stuff with McDaniels than Tebow, but that was seen as his death bed), whether he is a starter or not, whether he is the reason for their turnaround or not.

Personally, I dont think I have ever seen a player like Tebow in any sort of sport ever. There is no comparisons with former NFL players or any other type of sport I can think of. His whole persona is rarley seen, and the debate and hype about him is completley unprecedented. If anything else, its great for American Football. Its been said earlier how people who dont watch it are hearing about him and tuning in. Even Sky are hopping on the Tebow bandwagon to publicise things. He creates such an amount of discussion, and people are on completely differing sides to him.

I think its great stuff altogether! I also think he is shíte! :pac:

McDaniels yeah. Though we didn't cut loose too soon, he was a great coordinator but the worst man manager ever, as i attested earlier in this thread. Mangini brought a rake of good players to the Jets in a similar vein and quite a few good ones to Cleveland but he could never be considered the answer as coach. Tebow...no way, he's the longest leash a Denver QB has had with the fans this side of Elway. I think the main criticism he came under was that it was intended as a project for a side that was in no means great shape and had other needs. In refusing to play him when things went sour after Oakland clubbed us and subsequent weeks, McDaniels was acknowledging as much, hence his firing

Jolly Red Giant · 01-01-2012 01:34AM

Syferus wrote: »

To be fair, I always thought McDaniels had alot of potential as a head coach and that he made some bold moves - if the Broncos were going to allow him to make the moves they did they had to give him the time to develop those ideas, but sports can be maddeningly short-sighted at times.

The primary reason for dumping McDaniels was that he embarrassed the Broncos by the scandal of his hired hand taping a 49er's practice at Wembley. This was following on from Belichick's antics exposed by the Jets. Once this happened McDaniels was headed only one way - out the door.

Syferus wrote: »

Clearly he left the Broncos in alot better shape than most Broncos fans wanted to believe, and it'd have obviously benefited Tebow's development considerably.

I disagree - I have been a Broncos fan for more than 30 years and McDaniels left the team in an embarrasing state. Not by getting rid of crybaby Cutler or brain-dead Marshall - but by destroying team spirit, playing favourites, wrecking the depth of the roster and getting caught at Wembley. Bowlen has to carry the can - he gave McDaniels way too much power and it went straight to his head.

As for Tebow - McDaniels did nothing for Tebow's development. I didn't like the pick - I felt it would lead to too much controversy. The ideal place for Tebow was with a winning team and a strong coach who could sit him on the bench for four or five seasons to learn his trade in the NFL. Everyone who supported the Broncos knew Orton would crash and the demand for Tebow would become unstoppable.

Tebow is a talented footballer - not necessarily a talented QB. He has done okay aside from last week against the Bills. The Broncos have a long way to go. There are lots of holes in the roster thanks to McDaniels (and Shanahan before him). Tebow was always going to have the advantage of opponents not knowing how to play him for the first few games. Both the Pats and the Bills figured out that if he is contained in the pocket then he will make mistakes. Tebow doesn't go through his progressions, he always throws to his first read and the defence know they can play that. Once the defensive front take away his running lanes his is stuck in the pocket. His problems are compounded by the fact that the OL is good in run blocking but poor in pass protection and his receivers are dropping too many balls. Opponents have also figured out how to beat the Denver defence over the past couple of games by running against the nickel (which hasn't helped by keeping Tebow off the field). Denver will probably beat the Chiefs (particularly if McGahee can stay on the field) - KC suck bad and Orton can't score a touchdown. If they win their play-off opponents will probably be Pittsburgh who will hammer the Broncos.

Saying this - I like the fact that Fox is running the ball. I am old school when it comes to American football and like to see the game being won or lost in the trenches. Tebow will start next year. The Broncos will have another draft to fill holes at DT and in the secondary etc. I think Tebow will help bring in a couple of quality free agents. But the Broncos will draft a QB. Only time will tell if Tebow develops sufficiently as a passer to let him and the coaching staff (build a roster) and use his other talents to win games consistantly.

Syferus · 01-01-2012 05:55PM

As I said, I think Broncos fans railed to far against McDaniels and I'd have fancied the current Broncos team this season much more had they kept him than if they switched to Fox/Elway, who until they were literally forced into switching in Tebow were doing even worse than McDaniels was. Elway particularly still seems very underwater with his new responsibilities.

The Steelers have slipped up/almost slipped up against alot of on paper lesser teams this season, they tend to drop to the level of their opponents. Doing that against Tebow would be seriously dangerous, no one wants to give Tebow a six point deficit and two minutes on the clock.

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 12:11AM

Orton>Tebow so!

Syferus · 02-01-2012 12:15AM

I guess Tebow Time extends to other games too. The Chargers look like they'll just about carry Denver over the line today.

Paully D · 02-01-2012 12:21AM

Which one of the two will be playing playoff football this season? Which one of the two has the better record this season?

bruschi · 02-01-2012 12:23AM

Orton 15 for 29 and 180 yards, no TD/INT
Tebow 6 for 22 and 60 yards, no TD, 1 fumble, 1 INT.

Its probably not fair (or maybe not) to only measure Tebow on stats, as he is supposidly more important than stats, but Denvers scoring is terrible with him in. Maybe it is more to do with Foxs playcalling, I dont know, but either way, its something they seriously need to get sorted if he is going to be the long term starter. The Steelers will win comfortably in the playoffs, but at least they are there after years of failing at the last hurdle.

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 12:25AM

Paully D wrote: »

Which one of the two will be playing playoff football this season? Which one of the two has the better record this season?

Which one beat the best team in the league?

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 12:26AM

QBR of 20.64....fantastic!

Paully D · 02-01-2012 12:32AM

kmart6 wrote: »

Which one beat the best team in the league?

Kansas would swap that result in a heartbeat if they could trade places with Denver now.

matthew8 · 02-01-2012 12:33AM

The truth about both of them is that they're below average and aren't going to have great stats with defensively orientated HCs.

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 12:35AM

Paully D wrote: »

Kansas would swap that result in a heartbeat if they could trade places with Denver now.

Course they would...but not much point if your going to lose in the first week cause your not a good team!

Jolly Red Giant · 02-01-2012 12:51AM

bruschi wrote: »

Its probably not fair (or maybe not) to only measure Tebow on stats, as he is supposidly more important than stats, but Denvers scoring is terrible with him in. Maybe it is more to do with Foxs playcalling, I dont know, but either way, its something they seriously need to get sorted if he is going to be the long term starter. The Steelers will win comfortably in the playoffs, but at least they are there after years of failing at the last hurdle.

The Broncos started 1-4 when Orton was benched (and Orton was brutal during that stretch. They then went 7-4 (finishing with 3 losses). Fox is a conservative coach by nature but that is just what the Broncos needed after the Shanahan steamroller went off the rails and the kid from the Pats couldn't control his ego.

The reason that Denver lost the last three games is that opposing teams figured out how to stop Tebow - stack the box to stop the run - keep Tebow in the pocket by not over-committing on the pass rush and use bump and run with man coverage in the secondary. It was inevitable that this was going to happen and I am surprised it took them so long to figure it out. The Broncos have many holes all across the roster and need help on the OL, at running back, receivers and tight-end.

Will Tebow get better? - who knows. He will be given a shot next year but he will have to learn to read defences, go through his progressions and hit his receivers. Otherwise opponents will do exactly the same as the Pats, the Bills and KC did over the last three games.

As for Orton - today showed what he is all about - 7 points against a defence with no DT's, injuries an ancient secondary. KC can keep him.

LuckyLloyd · 02-01-2012 12:58AM

6/22 60 yards 2.7 avg 0TD 1INT 20.6
6 rushing attempts for 16 yards

Just look at those numbers. Takes some drinking in. He's so terrible.

eagle eye · 02-01-2012 12:59AM

Bills Simmons is so funny, this was his preview of the Broncos/Chiefs game.

BRONCOS (-3) over Chiefs
There's only one problem with the "Couldn't you see Kyle Orton getting his revenge against Tebow and the Broncos and knocking them out of the playoffs?" scenario. Hold on, I'll let you think about it. Mull it over. I bet you get it.
(Giving you a couple of extra seconds.)
(Twiddling my thumbs.)
And … time!
OK, here's the problem: HE'S KYLE ****ING ORTON! Have you watched him play????? You've watched him, right? He won six of his past twenty-seven games as Denver's starter. He's the master of the "Just when I thought we had some momentum, I can't believe Kyle threw that pick into triple coverage in the end zone" play. Now he's suddenly Liam Neeson flying to Europe to find his abducted daughter in Taken? We owe the word "revenge" an apology for daring to include it in the same sentence as Kyle Orton. Besides, in the words of Paul Crewe, we've come too far with this Tebow thing to stop now. For Granny, for Nate … for Jesus … let's do it.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7404371/breaking-week-17

spiralism · 02-01-2012 01:04AM

kmart6 wrote: »

Orton>Tebow so!

He didnt do anything against a Defence that gave up 40 to ****ing buffalo, has no DTs, it's only good safety injured, subsequently nobody in the secondary at all bar Bailey and an injured Miller and Dumervil. They can have him, many 8-8 seasons beckon for him if they move on with him

Tebow, **** me he was ****e today but lest we forget, were it not for him we wouldn't be where we are now. Probably going to get mugged next week and an offseason of uncertainty awaits, but i want us to stick with him, unless manning becomes available or something. He'll come around.

Just in: Mendenhall ruled out for the Wildcard game and Ben is still crocked...

matthew8 · 02-01-2012 01:12AM

Jeez you're really talking down your defense to make it seem like Orton was awful today, he wasn't that bad. Sure they got burned by the Pats and Bills (without Von Miller might I add), but in the games before that they gave up 10, 13, 13, 32 and 10.

spiralism · 02-01-2012 01:21AM

matthew8 wrote: »

Jeez you're really talking down your defense to make it seem like Orton was awful today, he wasn't that bad. Sure they got burned by the Pats and Bills (without Von Miller might I add), but in the games before that they gave up 10, 13, 13, 32 and 10.

Nah but he didn't exactly singlehandedly beat us like is being made out. 1 TD in the game and it was McCluster. Their Defence won that game, ours did great fwiw.

Jolly Red Giant · 02-01-2012 01:24AM

matthew8 wrote: »

Jeez you're really talking down your defense to make it seem like Orton was awful today, he wasn't that bad.

Orton is Orton - good in practice - good between the 20's - picks up good stats with garbage time yards - and doesn't know how to win.

Tebow - cr*p in practice - poor most of the game - useless stats - but a 7-4 record this season and has won games through sheer determination.

Now Tebow has a long way to go. The Broncos will give him next season to see if he can learn to pass from the pocket. If he does and the Broncos coaching staff can build a playbook to utilise his many other talents, then he can do some damage. But it's 50/50 whether this will happen and I expect the Broncos to take a mid-round QB in the draft as a back-up plan.

SantryRed · 02-01-2012 01:51AM

spiralism wrote: »

Nah but he didn't exactly singlehandedly beat us like is being made out. 1 TD in the game and it was McCluster. Their Defence won that game, ours did great fwiw.

But it's all Tebow when it's the other way round!

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 01:55AM

spiralism wrote: »

Tebow, **** me he was ****e today but lest we forget, were it not for him we wouldn't be where we are now.

No no, ye wouldn't be where ye are if it wasn't for a D that kept the score close in all those games cause he is dreadful, credit must also go to the WR's who basically have to keep running routes when he can't hit them and manage to keep their concentration levels high enough to be able to do something when he actually manages to make a throw!

spiralism · 02-01-2012 01:56AM

SantryRed wrote: »

But it's all Tebow when it's the other way round!

He'd actually put up two touchdowns or something though. I sincerely hope KC stick with Orton going forward, he's really really average and has no bottle. Tebow, as much as he can suck, not so much.

matthew8 · 02-01-2012 01:59AM

kmart6 wrote: »

No no, ye wouldn't be where ye are if it wasn't for a D that kept the score close in all those games cause he is dreadful, credit must also go to the WR's who basically have to keep running routes when he can't hit them and manage to keep their concentration levels high enough to be able to do something when he actually manages to make a throw!

Not being where they'd be without Tim Tebow and not being where they'd be without the WRs (the best one was traded away I might add) and defense aren't mutually exclusive.

LuckyLloyd · 02-01-2012 02:25AM

Tonight was so abject that I think Denver should start Quinn in the playoffs.

themont85 · 02-01-2012 02:29AM

It's so funny the way that Orton is now 'not a winner'-'great stats guy'.

I can't recall his exact record with the Bears but it was a very healthy win/loss record. When he joined the Broncos and went 5-0 people kept going on about how he just wins and look at Cutler, he can't win.

Funny how things change.

spiralism · 02-01-2012 02:43AM

themont85 wrote: »

It's so funny the way that Orton is now 'not a winner'-'great stats guy'.

I can't recall his exact record with the Bears but it was a very healthy win/loss record. When he joined the Broncos and went 5-0 people kept going on about how he just wins and look at Cutler, he can't win.

Funny how things change.

21-12. His Denver record was, ironically, 12-21. So he's 35-34 now.

tallaghtoutlaws · 02-01-2012 02:59AM

spiralism wrote: »

21-12. His Denver record was, ironically, 12-21. So he's 35-34 now.

So all those loses in Denver were his fault then?

kmart6 · 02-01-2012 03:01AM

Of course....just like all the win's in Denver recently are all down to Tebow! :rolleyes:

spiralism · 02-01-2012 04:03AM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

So all those loses in Denver were his fault then?

nope. last handful maybe. but end of the day the QB gets a w/l record attached to their overall statline and he'll only be associated with one of the darkest periods in Denver Broncos history.

Morrisseeee · 02-01-2012 10:55AM

Yeah, we won the division..............but it's very much a deflated 'yeah', we needed to win to round off season well, the team (running, defense, special teams) played well last night, except.................at QB, Tebow was terrible, and a SERIOUS amount of work is needed in the off-season.
Orton showed he is the better passer, throwing perfect spirals and hitting his WR in coverage, but he lacks something under pressure, is he a winning QB, can he guide the Chiefs to a division title next year, I'm not so sure, whereas Tebow last night did nothing on the passing front, not able to read all the WR runs, looking only at target no. 1, not throwing accurately, and being over conservative with some throws. He's done some amazing things this season, but alot of improvement is needed to get him to a stage where he looks like a confident passer.

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