Denver Broncos Thread

spiralism wrote: »

Woody paige, the Broncos beat reporter would disagree

Woody Paige is your source? :rolleyes:

spiralism wrote: »

Well he's the Broncos ITK so yes, he's the one talking to the coaches/players and around the facilities reporting on it, it is after all his job to cover the Broncos for the Denver Post. :rolleyes:

Woody Paige is one of the most bias reporters around and is also a clown no wonder he would report nonsense like that. Also where does it say Orton was lazy? Seems to me Paige is trying to make out that the lack of work ethic which Orton adapted this year after he was told he was being traded and then told he was staying and then told he is starting and then was dropped added with the Tebow stuff was enough to make any player not give a sh1t.

Typical Paige writing. So far up the clubs hole he will say anything to make Denver and Tebow look better than Orton. And he isn't alone. Many in club reporters are knob ends. Pats have 1 or 2 also. They are paid to make the club they report on look good.

Even players didn't like him. Brandon Marshal sums Woody up nicely:

“Woody Paige is a columnist. He writes an opinion. He’s the same guy that’s telling me to grow up, that I’m a baby, but if you turn on ESPN every day, Around the Horn, he’s wearing wigs, he’s got crazy quotes behind him. Who wants the attention, me or Woody Paige? … Woody Paige is the same guy every day. If you turn on ESPN. you’re gonna see him muted out every time because everything that comes out of his mouth is a lot of baloney. And that’s the truth.”

mikemac1 wrote: »

Jake Long in Miami, Jordon Gross in Carolina

I was sure Andrew Whitworth was a captain in Cincinati but after checking it seems he isn't.
Joe Thomas was a captain last year when McCoy was still a rookie. They gave it to McCoy this year

There's a few anyway around the league anyway, this guy is a journalist and beat reporter?

Bit offtopic

Paige is a Journo and also a Columnist and has been a co presenter on different shows. Guy is nothing more than a bias hack that will say anything to make himself be heard. He is always on that Around the Horn show also. Dude is an idiot.

I would never have labelled, (nor have I ever heard it mentioned before that) Orton as lazy or a bad locker room guy.

I know he was well liked by team mates in Chicago.

My thinking is that when you, as a tem, are going through a rough patch, winning infrequently and there's a lot of clamour for an unproven rookie qb from the fans for your position, you could quickly become unmotivated - I'm sure Orton is no fool and could see the writing on the wall.

In his final year, Orton spoke about not caring what the fans thought, or not being bothered to try and please them, it struck me as words from a guy who was feeling unappreciated and knew he would not be there much longer

As a Denver fan I have no animosity towards Orton at all. He was the least of the teams problems really. He played hard, and with injuries (twisted ankle in Chicago/ bad chest injury at Denver). He just never seemed to get it done when it mattered, in the redzone, 3rd down or at the end of games. Maybe it's down to bad luck, or a lack of "clutchness" but after Sunday's game, I wish him well with KC.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But but but...............he's only average, no SB win, no SB appearance, no AFC championship win, and this year he's even worse than Tebow, mmmmm........scratches head

So unless you make it to a superbowl you'll only ever be average? Give me the guy with the 85 QB rating over the guy with a 75 one.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But but but...............he's only average, no SB win, no SB appearance, no AFC championship win, and this year he's even worse than Tebow, mmmmm........scratches head

Worse than Tebow how? He has a better Passing rating, Completed rating, Yards and TD in the air. His int are high but lets be fair the Chargers offense have been muck all year and it isnt just because of Rivers. Turner and all the offensive players are to blame.

But are you trying to say because the Chargers are sh1t this year that this makes Rivers worse than Tebow? Pass first offense run by Norv "I am a useless Coach" Turner versus a run first Offense designed specifically for Tebow.

Don't confuse what Tebow has done with the Broncos as being a better QB than someone like Rivers. Chargers offload Turner and bring in someone who knows how to get the best out of that offense then you will see huge improvement in a guy like Rivers.

Oh and pinning AFC Championship games and Super bowls on one man is pathetic at best especially when the guy you say he is worse than has never got to one and the fact a team loses is down to the whole team not just one man. Dan Marino never won a bowl so I guess that makes Tebow better than him right?

Plenty of amazing players in the NFL that will never make a Championship game or Super Bowl. Judging said players on these games is stupid and annoys me. Top Tier players are for the most part only as good as the guys around them.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I never said Tebow was a better QB than Rivers, meerly that his winning record is better than his this year, Rivers is a much better passer than most in the league, but...........he hasn't won a major trophy.........yet. As regards offloading Turner, this has been spoken about for years.

This still doesn't prove how Tebow is doing better than Rivers as individuals. All it proves is that one team has a better record than the other. Sure if you want to say Tebow's is on a team that has playoff shot and thus making him in a better position to have a better season overall as a team member I would agree. But to say he is having a better season as individuals is wrong especially as QBs let me quote what you said that you really should have clairfied:

he's only average, no SB win, no SB appearance, no AFC championship win, and this year he's even worse than Tebow, mmmmm........scratches head

This 100% smacks of saying one guy is better than the other because...... I mean you even said Rivers was average.

In the quote above this one you're pinning all the Chargers losses & Rivers failures on one man,............Turner, but now it's 'pathetic' to suggest pinning SBs etc on one man.................Rivers, do you see the irony ?! As for team losses being a team loss, where does Tebow's 4 Int's count in their loss last weekend? On the 'one man' point, where are Indy this year, how are they doin? The same can be said of all the good teams, take their QB out, and they loose. And finally, to make an inference that I said that Tebow is better than Marino is bordering on libel.

Are you for real? Of course you can pin the faults of a team on a Head Coach. It is his system and he is the one who selects the players. Comparing the one man thing to a QB and Head Coach is on two very different levels. Head Coaches have the ability to destroy teams and players have to follow their orders. In fact bad performance can 100% come down to the faults of bad play design and bad play calling and not putting your unit in a position to get the best of their abilities. Saying its the QBs fault is fooking ridiculous unless he did actually fook the game up and this is where I come to Tebow 4 ints.

No it wasn't all his fault. See unlike others I don't pin faults of a loss on one guy unless he went out there and threw 1-20 and 0 Tds and 5 Ints where he quite literally made a dogs dinner of a game and gave his Defense no chance to survive. But both Rivers and Tebow have played to the best of their abilities this season in the systems they are given. The problem is that Rivers forces a lot of passes because he has in a pass first offense but he has always thrown a high % of Ints. Tebow on the other hand is not in any position to win games using his passing 100% in the sense that if it comes down to having to claw his way back his bad passing i.e Bills game he wont get it done. But as bad as Rivers and Tebow have been neither of them can be singled out for losing games on their own. I never bought into a QB taking the blame for a loss based on Ints in a game. Too easy to pick on them when there is plenty of other reasons out there also.

............and one of them is Tebow, he's been amazing this year, just look at the hype, you don't get that for being normal or below average.......right?!

Amazing my arse. What he has done is good I will give him that. The belief and determination he gave to the rest of the team and give them the confidence and belief but as I said before that will only get you so far. I never buy into hype for that reason.

So.................Brady=P.Manning=Rodgers=Brees ?!

you clearly missed my point on this. Take Brady. There have been times in his career where his WR have stunk the place out or his linemen have not blocked for him. In this case he is only as good as those guys. Even Rodgers struggled recently against the Chiefs and the guys around him couldn't get it done also. It all ties into you are only as good as the guy around you. So even if you are having an amazing game you can only perform to the standard around you. That is pretty much common sense.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Will you agree with my point that this thread is over, Tebow v Orton, and that Tebow won ?

Why does this bother you so much? Who cares about whether the discussion is Orton V Tebow at this point. This thread is serving well as discussion for Tebow and everything related to him and the Broncos. But I will say as Orton's character has come into question in this thread which relates to him as a QB no harm still discussing him and making slight comparisons to Tebow. And in fact no harm comparing Tebow to any starting NFL QB. Should we close down discussions just because you think they are over though? Maybe a slight mod adjustment to the title might be more pleasing to you if it bothers you that much I guess? Report the original post and see if the mods will change it.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

So, back to my Q, and I'll re-phrase it: do you believe that Tebow won the debate ? Yes or No answer, please and thanks.

Won what debate though? There are more than one debates about Orton and Tebow in here. But Im guessing you are talking about the overall trend as in who is better for the Broncos even though that was not the original question put by the OP. The original question by Steve O was :

Stev_o wrote: »

Probably the only decent QB controversy so far this year pits Orton vs Tebow in a battle of who will be Denver's number one.

Then the Debate went in all direction and in fact this debate as you say was answered the minute Tebow started. So if you are asking did Tebow answer the original question? Yes he did the minute he got the starting role. Did he deserve it well thats another can of worms. Hindsight would say yes etc etc

As for the ability stuff I have already said what I had to say comparing the two and Im not about to open a can of worms on it.

I believe this thread can live on though and don't think it should be closed down as guys like Tebow and Andrew Luck and Cam Newton are guys who carry hype and guys who in my mind will take a lot of discussion so it makes sense having a whole discussion thread about them to keep it out of other threads and de-railing other threads i.e weekly threads etc etc.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I never said Tebow was a better QB, so it's comical that you picked out this inference, as tallagh also picked out that I was infering that Tebow was better than Marino
I said: "and this year he's even worse than Tebow", and I was talking about their seasons, their wins, their head-to-head. To say I was 'taken to the cleaners' or that 'I backed down asap' or 'I changed the subject' on those facts/points is pure folly. I further went on to outline the Rivers (or Romo) point, and how it applied to the Broncos dilemma as they searched for a QB for next season.

The debate as to which of them 'won' was over......even tallagh admitted that (in a round-about way). That doesn't mean I think Tebow is the best QB in the league or that he will deliver championships/SBs, I'm a realist, I know his flaws, I know the teams flaws, the system that they currently have is there to be 'shut-down', and there's an article in NFL.com atm describing how to do it. The Q is, can Tebow & the team improve enough during the off-season to challenge again next year. Some of ye will say 'absolutely not', the same way this thread started when people said 'he will never make a starting QB', but he proved those people wrong and became a starting QB, and he and the team got the wins. Some people will say 'yes he can improve' the same way they said he would make a starting QB.
To say that he was a below average QB or that he is a horrible passer then his (and the teams) results are all the more remarkable.
Also, I've no problem keeping this thread open, I simply asked (in a non-confrontational way) that the thread title be changed (to reflect the current situation). I was actually going to start a Quarterback thread, and have a discussion about the most important/influential position on the field, and the various athletes that fill that position.

You said Tebow is better than rivers this year because he has more wins. That's just not the case. As for Tebow, he's still not proven he's a starting QB or that he has improved to be one.

Syferus wrote: »

Clearly he left the Broncos in alot better shape than most Broncos fans wanted to believe, and it'd have obviously benefited Tebow's development considerably.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. They are still quite a poor team in terms of talent and depth. Edit: Depends what you mean really. Broncos had some excellent players already before he arrived, his terrible attitude had some of those replaced though. However with his draft and FA he never added to the quality significantly. He was a terrrible head coach, and you see how they've imrpoved without only goes to highlight it was the right decision(unfortunatly they made it).