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Why are most hotel workers not Irish ?

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Comments

  • #152
    tina turner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭tina turner


    gigino wrote: »
    And the 500,000 or so unemployed Irish ? Do you think they are too "ambitious, and skilled, so they just would move on if the job doesn't reward them - financially or mentally" ??

    Maybe not all of them,but it's possible in some cases.

    Although I used to know a guy who was extremely shy and unable to "sell" himself, so possibly job hunting skills fail? (i.e. interview?)


  • #153
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭Yahew


    gigino wrote: »
    And the 500,000 or so unemployed Irish ? Do you think they are too "ambitious, and skilled, so they just would move on if the job doesn't reward them - financially or mentally" ??

    You do realise that MOST OF THESE PEOPLE had jobs two, or three years ago. The 500,000 Irish are not given the chance to take those jobs, and some of them have to emigrate.

    This is the third time I have made this point. Your attitude to the "500,000"unemployed ( it's 200k) is Thatcherite nonsense. Clearly you are blaming the unemployed for not taking jobs, which you yourself admit they are not getting offered jobs by racist employers. You also seem to blame them for not getting a job in the most severe depression in Irish history ( and one of the largest ever in the world).

    As someone said previously, this kind of attitude to a different ethnic group would result in a ban for racism.


  • #154
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Takeabath wrote: »
    I asked my uncle who runs a group of hotels why nearly all his staff were eastern European. His answer? They work harder and have a better attitude! He also said that it would take one polish lad half the time to do something that 3 Irish lads what do for triple the cost. He now gets eastern Europeans to do anything from works on his kitchen to services on his car. My brother on his advise had an extension built on his house by some polish builders it was thousands of euros cheaper and done weeks earlier than the Irish builder quote. Can't beat value for money and hotels agree


    Cash job too probably. Last roar of the Celtic Tiger. :rolleyes:


  • #155
    ThOnda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭ThOnda


    Being foreigner and staying in Irish hotels on my business trips, I don't see the difference in service quality. However Irish staff has the tendency to lie to make their hotel look better than the competition. But they are the first marketing line I do come across, so I don't blame them.
    Personally, I prefer B&Bs when traveling here in Ireland.


  • #156
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Yahew wrote: »
    The 500,000 Irish are not given the chance to take those jobs
    some are and some do ( take jobs on the minimum wage etc ).

    If you were unemployed, would you be willing to work hard under pressure in a hotel type job ? Would you try to get a job like that rather than stay on the dole ?


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  • #157
    Addilynn Helpful Sax
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Addilynn Helpful Sax


    gigino wrote: »
    My brother stayed in a few large hotels in Ireland recently and said even the receptionist, leisure centre staff, waiting staff etc were foreign. Excellent staff, but mostly eastern European. I know the HR person in another large Irish hotel ( well known brand name ) and she said they do not have any Irish people on housekeeping duties / making up rooms. She said they never found any Irish people who could stick the pace.

    We Irish seem to work hard when we go abroad. The minimum wage is higher here than in most countries around the world. We have a lot of unemployment here ( half a million ? ) and a lot of emigration. Is it not puzzling we cannot compete here / be as good as foreign workers ?


    this is why

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75624228&postcount=162

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75780096&postcount=204


  • #158
    Bishop Strong Suit
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Bishop Strong Suit


    gigino wrote: »
    There are tens of thousands of people immigrating to get jobs here, as our minimum wage is probably the highest in the world. IU was chatting to some Polish / Latvians recently, I said what about the recession . They said " what recession ? " Being hard workers they find it easy to get work here. I was talking to one employer who employs 23 of them. He says 23 always turn up for work on Monday morning, none ever late. Some turn up 10, 20, 30 minutes early, ready to work hard. No hangovers + no sickies.

    I must live on a different planet to you, because I'm Irish and have always turned up to work with plenty of time to spare, prepared and ready to work. I've never felt that turning up to work late or ridiculously hungover would be acceptable. I really can't believe that workers actually turning up to work on time is a novelty for an employer.


  • #159
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    gigino wrote: »
    Well said and I think most employers find that. Despite the fact that there are half a million or so unemployed in our little country ( which itself is only the size of a decent city overseas ) , it is the experience of most employers that most Irish people are not as hard a workers as foreigners. If the foreigners can get work here, why not the Irish ? There are still tens of thousands of people immigrating and many of them getting jobs.

    I,ve recently completed a placement with homeless charity in Dublin city which provides a drop in and support service , at the moment approx. 40% of people availing of its service are foreign nationals mainly Eastern European,already a Polish charity has appeared here looking to encourage its citizens to return home.
    All this in one agency , nevermind the many other agencies operating in Dublin.
    Already its staff are being encouraged to learn Polish ,anticipating even worse unemployment.
    These men and women would not be so called street drinkers or IV drug users.
    So if your telling us that there are tens of thousands of foreign nationals arriving here and getting employment.....tell me where, so I can go back to them and tell them where the work is...


  • #160
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gigino wrote: »
    I think all hotel groups find that foreign workers are generally better, more efficient workers now.

    Fascinating. How do you know this? And no, anecdotes don't count.
    gigino wrote: »
    The HR manager I know .............

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you don't know any such person.

    It's odd how every time a thread comes up, you know somebody who proves your point....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76045744&postcount=31
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75808613&postcount=152
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75564192&postcount=1
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75004956&postcount=103

    And on, and on, and on........


  • #161
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    If i put an advert in the paper tomorrow (or on FAS) for service staff, 60% of the replies will be foreign, 30% will be students and at the most 10% will be Irish people aged 23+.
    This has been the same for the last 10 years, only the 10% was even smaller during the bubble. I dont get a flood of CV from people on the dole, the ones i do get are normally from youngish fellas who went into the building industry just before it went bust and are now desperate for work.
    I wont over generalise, but i see no desire in the Irish people who have lost their jobs to take up work in the hotel industry.
    And before anyone says it, we pay above minimum wage.


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  • #162
    EGAR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    I am not an employer, I run an animal rescue and have quite a few volunteers, all of which are Irish. They are the most dependable bunch of peeps I've ever had. On time, never a no show and easy to get on with. And that is non paid, often dirty and sometimes heart breaking work.


  • #163
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Senna wrote: »
    If i put an advert in the paper tomorrow (or on FAS) for service staff, 60% of the replies will be foreign, 30% will be students and at the most 10% will be Irish people aged 23+.
    This has been the same for the last 10 years, only the 10% was even smaller during the bubble. I dont get a flood of CV from people on the dole, the ones i do get are normally from youngish fellas who went into the building industry just before it went bust and are now desperate for work.
    I wont over generalise, but i see no desire in the Irish people who have lost their jobs to take up work in the hotel industry.
    And before anyone says it, we pay above minimum wage.

    I gave up applying for jobs in hotels, I've applied for maintenance,porter, night staff etc..... I considered myself lucky if I even got a reply. Why would I continue to apply for jobs in an industry that couldn,t be arsed replying to applicants...? or is that an indication of the way the hospitality industry treats its employees.


  • #164
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    mattjack wrote: »
    I gave up applying for jobs in hotels, I've applied for maintenance,porter, night staff etc..... I considered myself lucky if I even got a reply. Why would I continue to apply for jobs in an industry that couldn,t be arsed replying to applicants...? or is that an indication of the way the hospitality industry treats its employees.


    They are employing someone, so you are doing something wrong. Vacancies in hotels and restaurants do sometimes come up - other people in this thread have said there is a high turnover of people in this industry - so why are other peoples applications successful and yours not ? Perhaps your application is not as well written, or you do not apply correctly. You are obviously computer literate so perhaps you could reasearch job application techniques ? Perhaps make a point in meeting the HR person in real life, to hand them your c.v.? Best of luck anyway.


  • #165
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    When was the last time you heard an Irish person proudly proclaim without fear of smirking from others that they are training to become a waiter? wasnt that long ago people where laughing at the irish guy in the mcdonalds ad about how he has risen so high up since starting out flipping burgers, sadly Ireland is a passive snobbish place, even the unemployed are becoming snobby.


  • #166
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Nodin wrote: »
    Fascinating. How do you know this?
    because of the numbers involved;)


  • #167
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you don't know any such person.

    I could not care less if you think i know such a person or not.:D
    Senna wrote: »
    If i put an advert in the paper tomorrow (or on FAS) for service staff, 60% of the replies will be foreign, 30% will be students and at the most 10% will be Irish people aged 23+.
    This has been the same for the last 10 years, only the 10% was even smaller during the bubble. I dont get a flood of CV from people on the dole, the ones i do get are normally from youngish fellas who went into the building industry just before it went bust and are now desperate for work.
    I wont over generalise, but i see no desire in the Irish people who have lost their jobs to take up work in the hotel industry.
    And before anyone says it, we pay above minimum wage.

    well said Senna, and for the record, I do not know you.


  • #168
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    gigino wrote: »
    They are employing someone, so you are doing something wrong. Vacancies in hotels and restaurants do sometimes come up - other people in this thread have said there is a high turnover of people in this industry - so why are other peoples applications successful and yours not ? Perhaps your application is not as well written, or you do not apply correctly. You are obviously computer literate so perhaps you could reasearch job application techniques ? Perhaps make a point in meeting the HR person in real life, to hand them your c.v.? Best of luck anyway.

    Could you help me ? you appear to have all the answers.....


  • #169
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    gigino wrote: »
    I could not care less if you think i know such a person or not.:D



    well said Senna, and for the record, I do not know you.

    WTF ? :pac::pac::pac:


  • #170
    scotty1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 ✭scotty1


    Lots of Irish workers felt the jobs on offer were beneath them and stayed on the dole, there is another explanation most managers in retail are foreign who hold the jobs for their own when jobs were available.


  • #171
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gigino wrote: »
    because of the numbers involved;)

    You've "numbers"? Excellent, you might provide a link so we can all see them.
    gigino wrote: »
    I could not care less if you think i know such a person or not.

    Of course you don't Jimmy gigino, which is why you use the same tactic over and over again.


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  • #172
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    scotty1 wrote: »
    Lots of Irish workers felt the jobs on offer were beneath them and stayed on the dole, there is another explanation most managers in retail are foreign who hold the jobs for their own when jobs were available.

    Where do you get this information ?


  • #173
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    mattjack wrote: »
    I gave up applying for jobs in hotels, I've applied for maintenance,porter, night staff etc..... I considered myself lucky if I even got a reply. Why would I continue to apply for jobs in an industry that couldn,t be arsed replying to applicants...? or is that an indication of the way the hospitality industry treats its employees.

    Yeah, we beat them everyday till they think its great industry to work in.:rolleyes:

    If you're looking for excuses to not find work, then good job. The amount of people complaining about not having work, yet they all have moral objections to some types of work because of some stupid reason.
    I dont have the time or resources to contact everyone that drops in a CV, but anyone who applies via an advert will be contacted in one way or another. Many will be contacted to say they didn't get the job but if another vacancy arises their CV will be considered for it. Out of maybe 50 CV's i cant afford to interview more than 4/5 of the best qualified or most suitable people.


  • #174
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Senna wrote: »
    Yeah, we beat them everyday till they think its great industry to work in.:rolleyes:

    If you're looking for excuses to not find work, then good job. The amount of people complaining about not having work, yet they all have moral objections to some types of work because of some stupid reason.
    I dont have the time or resources to contact everyone that drops in a CV, but anyone who applies via an advert will be contacted in one way or another. Many will be contacted to say they didn't get the job but if another vacancy arises their CV will be considered for it. Out of maybe 50 CV's i cant afford to interview more than 4/5 of the best qualified or most suitable people.

    I'm not looking for any excuse's at all.I can list of hotels all around Dublin/Meath who I've applied to for advertised positions and I've even enquired about criteria for jobs advertised.I've no moral objection to any job at all and I accept what you're saying about you contacting applicants , but many don't even send back an email acknowledging applications.


  • #175
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    mattjack wrote: »
    I'm not looking for any excuse's at all.I can list of hotels all around Dublin/Meath who I've applied to for advertised positions and I've even enquired about criteria for jobs advertised.I've no moral objection to any job at all and I accept what you're saying about you contacting applicants , but many don't even send back an email acknowledging applications.

    I agree, if you apply for a position you should get some form of contact, but most Hotels dont work like offices or other companies, most hotels wont have a HR department or even a management secretary. Chances are the person who will be looking at your CV will be doing so in the 10 minute gap between serving customers and rushing off to service a function. Sad fact of the industry is most hotels who are still operating (except NAMA hotels) have remained open by cutting down to a bare minimum of staff, meaning things like a courtesy email wont be sent.


  • #176
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Senna wrote: »
    I agree, if you apply for a position you should get some form of contact, but most Hotels dont work like offices or other companies, most hotels wont have a HR department or even a management secretary. Chances are the person who will be looking at your CV will be doing so in the 10 minute gap between serving customers and rushing off to service a function. Sad fact of the industry is most hotels who are still operating (except NAMA hotels) have remained open by cutting down to a bare minimum of staff, meaning thinks like a courtesy email wont be sent.

    Ok, I take your point ,that's fair enough.I learned something.
    MJ


  • #177
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    scotty1 wrote: »
    Lots of Irish workers felt the jobs on offer were beneath them and stayed on the dole

    I believe its very hard work cleaning rooms properly under constant time pressure. I am not saying all Irish people on the dole are not prepared to work that hard, but more than a few are.


  • #178
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Senna wrote: »
    I agree, if you apply for a position you should get some form of contact, but most Hotels dont work like offices or other companies, most hotels wont have a HR department or even a management secretary. Chances are the person who will be looking at your CV will be doing so in the 10 minute gap between serving customers and rushing off to service a function. Sad fact of the industry is most hotels who are still operating (except NAMA hotels) have remained open by cutting down to a bare minimum of staff, meaning things like a courtesy email wont be sent.

    Your full of it! I had the misfortune to work in a so-called 4 star hotel for a few years at the height of the Celtic Tiger and it was one of the most badly run places I've ever worked in. Crap, abusive managers, long hours, inadequate equipment and hygiene practices that would make your hair stand on end. As for not answering job applications - it is the height of ignorance/bad manners to treat job applicants in this way and it was always this way i.e not due to the recession and people being too busy. Anyway, it taught me one thing and I will never stay in a new (office block/hospital/tax break type) Irish hotel again - or work in one. :p


  • #179
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    gigino wrote: »
    I believe its very hard work cleaning rooms properly under constant time pressure. I am not saying all people on the dole are not prepared to work that hard, but more than a few are.

    There ya go.''''


  • #180
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    gigino wrote: »
    I believe its very hard work cleaning rooms properly under constant time pressure. I am not saying all Irish people on the dole are not prepared to work that hard, but more than a few are.

    If I was to substitute "Irish" people with Polish or Nigerian , I wonder what people would say...?


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  • #181
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Your full of it! I had the misfortune to work in a so-called 4 star hotel for a few years at the height of the Celtic Tiger and it was one of the most badly run places I've ever worked in. Crap, abusive managers, long hours, inadequate equipment and hygiene practices that would make your hair stand on end. As for not answering job applications - it is the height of ignorance/bad manners to treat job applicants in this way and it was always this way i.e not due to the recession and people being too busy. Anyway, it taught me one thing and I will never stay in a new (office block/hospital/tax break type) Irish hotel again - or work in one. :p

    So you worked in a bubble hotel (which i excluded from my post above), probably owned by a developer, built and operated purely as a tax break, your now a expert in this industry. Those hotels litter the country, more of a factory than hotels, they are no way representative of what our industry is like and those hotels are killing the local family run successful hotels. I work in such a family run hotel, operating for 20+ years, your experience of that hotel and my hotel would be completely different.
    I cant speak for all hotels, i'm just an employee of one of them, i offered a opinion of why the poster did not get a reply, if you dont like it.........


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