Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

Mr Alan · 29-12-2011 05:16PM

whatawaster wrote: »

And I'm glad we didn't buy either of them. Both very overrated, like Bent is. At least Milner has age on his side. Bent would be a woeful signing, but a very typical one of us to make.

Barry has been one of City's best players this season?! If anything he is hideously under rated tbh.

Milner has been excellent for them since moving there?!

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:17PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I thought it was all about youth and resale value with FSG ?

I thought that too until we signed Downing. Now I'm not sure if that was a one-off buy to fill a hole in the squad, or if there is no one overall strategy.

Blatter · 29-12-2011 05:17PM

http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/1215036-liverpool-fc-make-enquiry-for-aston-villa-striker-darren-bent.html

Richard Buxton saying an inquiry was made for Bent.

It all depends on how much he'd cost. You should stay well clear if he's anything over £15m.

ynwa_17 · 29-12-2011 05:18PM

whatawaster wrote: »

And I'm glad we didn't buy either of them. Both very overrated, like Bent is. At least Milner has age on his side. Bent would be a woeful signing, but a very typical one of us to make.

Neither Barry nor Milner is overrated. Both would have been fantastic signings. The Barry transfer saga is looked negatively upon due to the fact it involved Alonso being forced out of the club.

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:23PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Barry has been one of City's best players this season?! If anything he is hideously under rated tbh.

Milner has been excellent for them since moving there?!

Milner has 3 goals in 60 matches for City. That is nowhere near good enough. I think he is a good player, but he clearly doesn't score enough, and imo is not creative enough either.
He suits City because they have plenty of goals and creativity from elsewhere. I don't think he would be ideal at Liverpool. That's not to say he wouldn't be a good player for us, I just don't think he would have been good value, and I'm glad we didn't buy him.

Barry, I think is very average.

manual_man · 29-12-2011 05:23PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Darren Bent has only 2 more goals than Carroll this season and is 28 in Feb so he's not exactly banging them in.

I'm not sure he would be the best option tbh.

I thought it was all about youth and resale value with FSG ?

He could be a quick fix though at the right price but I can't see it happening.

Bent has missed a number of games through injury (and shopping)

Also you have to remember Villa lost their two best suppliers of goals to him. He's a class act. And we have the perfect creative players to make the most of his goalscoring abilities. 28 isnt that old. He could well go on to have 4 more years at his peak. Apart from RVP Bent is the best out and out striker in the league. We're crying out for a player like him. On the other hand some of you may want to plump for some foreign lad, who has no experience in the EPL, but has "bagloads of talent", and then inevitably ends up warming the bench like so many others have in the past. To hell with that. A proven goalscorer in the EPL like Bent would be a brilliant purchase. Let's hope the rumours are not.. ahem.. "scurillous"

29-12-2011 05:26PM

whatawaster wrote: »

I thought that too until we signed Downing. Now I'm not sure if that was a one-off buy to fill a hole in the squad, or if there is no one overall strategy.

In fairness Downing was 26 when he joined and was pretty consistant over the past number of years in the league.

He's still to settle with us fully but he's shown he can do a decent job for us in a number of games this season. Granted he's been poor enough in a few games too. Consistancy is key, which is what he was known for at Villa, but not yet with us

tommyhaas · 29-12-2011 05:26PM

Bent has a record of roughly one in two since going to Villa, and that's in a relatively poor Villa side. Given they signed him for £24m, and how they managed to get £19m for Stewart Downing from the same buyer, why would they let Bent go for £15m, when they obviously don't want to sell, he has a long contract, and to a club who are known to pay well over the odds for players?

I reckon it would be closer to double that figure

ynwa_17 · 29-12-2011 05:29PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Milner has 3 goals in 60 matches for City. That is nowhere near good enough. I think he is a good player, but he clearly doesn't score enough, and imo is not creative enough either.
He suits City because they have plenty of goals and creativity from elsewhere. I don't think he would be ideal at Liverpool. That's not to say he wouldn't be a good player for us, I just don't think he would have been good value, and I'm glad we didn't buy him.

Barry, I think is very average.

Alonso has 6 goals in nearly 120 games for Real Madrid. Does that mean he's 'nowhere near good enough' and just benefits from goals being scored all over the park?

Mr Alan · 29-12-2011 05:30PM

The only hope that Eck could possibly feel that Bent doesn't suit the style he wants to play & be willing to let him go recouping most of the money they paid for him.

Anything in excess of £20m would make it a no go for me

Kess73 · 29-12-2011 05:31PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd be alright with signing Bent. Very good player & his scoring record can't be argued with.

Bent for the right price would be a decent stop gap signing (for two or three years). He would not be my first choice based on the fact I think he would be horribly overpriced due to being English, but I have no doubts that a finisher like him would get a fair share of goals in a team that creates as many chances as Liverpool have thios season.

ynwa_17 wrote: »

Contract is up EOS and I can't see him signing a new one. Would they risk losing him for compensation (% of future fee + a couple of million) or would they cash in now and try to get 7m+.

aaronh007 wrote: »

They might not have a choice. His contract is almost up so he could go for free next summer. Don't think they could chance that so they might be willing to deal in January.

Did not realise his contract was running out. Defo worth a look if he could be got semi cheap He was also injured during the game on Monday, anyone know if it was a minor thing or something that might see him out for a bit?

willmunny1990 · 29-12-2011 05:33PM

Bent wouldn't be a bad option for a quick fix, however i agree anything over £15million is far to high. He is a natural goal scorer which is what ye need, it would be a big slap in the face to Andy though.

ynwa_17 · 29-12-2011 05:33PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Did not realise his contract was running out. Defo worth a look if he could be got semi cheap He was also injured during the game on Monday, anyone know if it was a minor thing or something that might see him out for a bit?

Hamstring problem. Doesn't look like he'll face United but isn't supposed to be anything serious.

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:36PM

ynwa_17 wrote: »

Alonso has 6 goals in nearly 120 games for Real Madrid. Does that mean he's 'nowhere near good enough' and just benefits from goals being scored all over the park?

Alonso is a defensive midfielder, though a creative one.

Milner is an attacking midfielder. I expect my attacking midfielders to score as well as create goals. Especially ones that cost so much money and are paid as highly as Milner is.

Gerrard scores goals. Kuyt scores (or rather used to) goals, Benayoun scored goals, Maxi and Bellamy are scoring goals. Milner, apart from one season at Villa, generally does not score goals.

That's clearly not the full picture, he is clearly a hard-working player, and he does create as well. But imo he is over-rated, was over-priced, and I'm glad we didn't sign him. I'm not glad we bought Downing instead, but that's another story.

VW 1 · 29-12-2011 05:38PM

manual_man wrote: »

Bent has missed a number of games through injury (and shopping)

Also you have to remember Villa lost their two best suppliers of goals to him. He's a class act. And we have the perfect creative players to make the most of his goalscoring abilities. 28 isnt that old. He could well go on to have 4 more years at his peak. Apart from RVP Bent is the best out and out striker in the league. We're crying out for a player like him. On the other hand some of you may want to plump for some foreign lad, who has no experience in the EPL, but has "bagloads of talent", and then inevitably ends up warming the bench like so many others have in the past. To hell with that. A proven goalscorer in the EPL like Bent would be a brilliant purchase. Let's hope the rumours are not.. ahem.. "scurillous"

How many times have we heard this rolled out, but seen it fail to work out? For example, N'Zogbia's move to Villa. Downing to Liverpool. In some parts, Young to United although I'm hoping he will get it together after showing flashes early on.

Mata, no PL experience. Silva, no PL experience. Aguero, no PL experience.

We can take any number of examples and show that they work/dont work for English or PL proven talent compared to foreign chap with ability.

At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, is Bent what is needed to get to the next level? The answer is no.

A decent stop gap he may be, but he is not what will propel Liverpool to the top 4 and he is definitely not what will be the reason for Liverpool challenging for the title in 2-3 seasons.

More ambition must be shown than singing Darrent Bent.

The owners have already shown they are in this for the long haul in terms of the money invested, and their track record proves they know how to win and that they know how to build.

A stop gap isn't what is needed in the long term, the long term needs a young player with ability to grow and develop, Andy Carroll.

The team is in transition there are lots of new players, 6 months is a short time after which to be getting impatient, especially considering the fact that you are 3 points off the top 4.

Stop gaps wont do.

Mr Alan · 29-12-2011 05:39PM

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Bent wouldn't be a bad option for a quick fix, however i agree £15million is far to high. He is a natural goal scorer which is what ye need, it would be a big slap in the face to Andy though.

People realise £15m is not a lot of money anymore in football, right?

VW 1 · 29-12-2011 05:41PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Alonso is a defensive midfielder, though a creative one.

Milner is an attacking midfielder. I expect my attacking midfielders to score as well as create goals. Especially ones that cost so much money and are paid as highly as Milner is.

Gerrard scores goals. Kuyt scores (or rather used to) goals, Benayoun scored goals, Maxi and Bellamy are scoring goals. Milner, apart from one season at Villa, generally does not score goals.

That's clearly not the full picture, he is clearly a hard-working player, and he does create as well. But imo he is over-rated, was over-priced, and I'm glad we didn't sign him. I'm not glad we bought Downing instead, but that's another story.

Milner is not an attacking midfielder. At least thats not what he does for City.

The players that play in the creative spots for them are, Silva, Nasri at times, Yaya Touré and Aguero to an extent when he drops deep.

Milner more often than not gets shunted to either wing, or does the grunt work in midfield.

Rarely is he used as an attacking creative force through the middle of the pitch for city.

29-12-2011 05:41PM

Milner has 2 goals and 5 assists in 14 league games this season.

That's decent enough stats.

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:45PM

VW 1 wrote: »

Milner is not an attacking midfielder. At least thats not what he does for City.

The players that play in the creative spots for them are, Silva, Nasri at times, Yaya Touré and Aguero to an extent when he drops deep.

Milner more often than not gets shunted to either wing, or does the grunt work in midfield.

Rarely is he used as an attacking creative force through the middle of the pitch for city.

So what would we have used him for? We don't need grunt work in midfield, we don't need a central attacking midfielder. We need an attacking right winger. I think he'd do a good job out there, but not enough of an improvement on Kuyt to have justified the huge price tag and wages.

by attacking midfielder, I mean either centrally, or in one of the wide areas. When we might have been interested in signing Milner, they would have been the positions occupied by Kuyt, Gerrard and Benayoun

Blatter · 29-12-2011 05:46PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise £15m is not a lot of money anymore in football, right?

If it was £15m, you'd still have to factor in his wages. He's apparently on about £70k/week at Villa so lets say Liverpool signed him up on £80k for 4 years.

£15m+£16.5m = £31.5m.

Is he worth that kind of investment? I don't think so.

slingerz · 29-12-2011 05:48PM

Bent would be a good addition as would Hoilet. Not altogether certain on Scott Sinclair though.

Transfer rumours do look like a striker will be added in January though. Would like to see a wide creative player with pace and a centre mid to join them in arriving at Anfield

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:49PM

Of the players linked, I think Hoillet would make the most impact here, he has something we are lacking - pace and directness from wide areas. I'd be happy with signing him and sticking with Carroll

Mr Alan · 29-12-2011 05:50PM

Blatter wrote: »

If it was £15m, you'd still have to factor in his wages. He's apparently on about £70k/week at Villa so lets say Liverpool signed him up on £80k for 4 years.

£15m+£16.5m = £31.5m.

Is he worth that kind of investment? I don't think so.

Who you think would be a realistic goal scorer we should move for instead?

slingerz · 29-12-2011 05:50PM

Blatter wrote: »

If it was £15m, you'd still have to factor in his wages. He's apparently on about £70k/week at Villa so lets say Liverpool signed him up on £80k for 4 years.

£15m+£16.5m = £31.5m.

Is he worth that kind of investment? I don't think so.

If he is 20 and he's on that kinda money is he worth the investment as you put it.

Talk about making a straw man for your arguement. He'll get goals which is what liverpool need right now. end of story. should his goals get liverpool to the CL and allow them to attract better players in the summer he'll have been worth every penny

willmunny1990 · 29-12-2011 05:50PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

People realise £15m is not a lot of money anymore in football, right?

Apologies, i meant anything over £15 million is to expensive.

And as Blatter pointed out adding in his wages its a substantial investment that i don't think is worth it.

VW 1 · 29-12-2011 05:51PM

whatawaster wrote: »

So what would we have used him for? We don't need grunt work in midfield, we don't need a central attacking midfielder. We need an attacking right winger. I think he'd do a good job out there, but not enough of an improvement on Kuyt to have justified the huge price tag and wages.

by attacking midfielder, I mean either centrally, or in one of the wide areas. When we might have been interested in signing Milner, they would have been the positions occupied by Kuyt, Gerrard and Benayoun

I wasnt advocating Milner for being a good fit for Liverpool or anything like it. Merely suggesting that that is the reason for his low goals and assists.

ASOT · 29-12-2011 05:51PM

Get heskey back lads

29-12-2011 05:53PM

80k a week isn't massive wages btw.

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 05:55PM

Blatter wrote: »

If it was £15m, you'd still have to factor in his wages. He's apparently on about £70k/week at Villa so lets say Liverpool signed him up on £80k for 4 years.

£15m+£16.5m = £31.5m.

Is he worth that kind of investment? I don't think so.

And then sell for very little after those four years. He is not worth it.

We will have to look at replacing a raft of attacking players in the next few years - Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, and of course, Gerrard. We don't need more older players in those positions, we need to freshen things up.

Rumours of Higuain and Ozil have been very very cruel. But those are the kind of players we need. Obviously those two are out of our league, but we need to sign the players at smaller clubs who will go on to be top class.

whatawaster · 29-12-2011 06:00PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Who you think would be a realistic goal scorer we should move for instead?

I wouldn't let Kenny/Comolli buy another striker. They have spent nearly 60 million on two strikers already. They must have faith that Carroll will come good and that Suarez will start scoring more. Otherwise, they have a lot of explaining to do before they start buying more forwards.

I don't subscribe to the need for a poacher. Because make no mistake, that is all that Bent is. I still have faith that Carroll will come good, I think he is lacking confidence.

So my answer would be - don't buy a striker at all, unless a quality young forward is on the market. That kind of move wouldn't surprise me at all given how close we were to signing Wickham in the summer.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

Comments