Social Welfare reporting figues are 16,000 this year!

senordingdong · 28-12-2011 09:56PM

previous user wrote: »

Plenty of jobs in Mcdonalds.

There aren't really.

zootroid · 28-12-2011 10:02PM

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

I'm curious, suppose a person realised someone within the company he worked for was defrauding that company, and he reported it, would you consider that "begrudgery"? Suppose he was an accountant, and had to report it?

Or the person who made a complaint to the guards about Ivor Callely when his expenses became well known (forging invoices from a mobile phone company that no longer existed), is that "begrudgery"?

Just interested to know when you think "begrudgery" stops, and doing the right thing starts?

Biggins · 28-12-2011 10:14PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Dole cheats take money from those who are legitimately entitled to be on it. They also take money from hospitals, the police, schools and pensions.
Trying to justify their behaviour by accusing their detracters of begrudgery is pathetic.

I do not disagree in any way - but sadly even then, the ones that are genuine cases, are sadly lumped then by some into a whole tainting of "lazy sods who don't want to work a day in their life and are just there to live off the state".

I've read it so many times in the year across the internet!

Kensington · 28-12-2011 10:19PM

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

If you worked your backside off for the past six years, paid potlots of tax, have been laid off and struggling to make ends meet but you're not entitled to a whole lot Social Welfare wise, yet the guy down the road is milking hundreds of euro a week, wouldn't you start to question too?

Or a plumber/electrician/carpenter, playing everything above board and by the books. Work's dried up though so struggling to attract enough jobs to keep themselves going, yet the guy down the road taking cash in hand, paying no VAT, no PRSI, no PAYE, no company overheads is seriously undermining the guy trying to stay legit and make a day's living out of it. Is he nothing but a begrudger too?

You say they're "only claiming 2 euro" more. They're not though.
Women claiming single parents allowance, rent allowance and all sorts while the boyfriend is living in the house could be claiming hundreds of euro a month they're not entitled to. Collectively, there's millions of euro being defrauded.

And I think the critical thing behind this - it's the "sure leave him be, what business is it of yours, what harm's he doing" attitude that let the banks run riot in this country and brought us to the financial ruin we are in today.

44leto · 28-12-2011 10:21PM

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

Begrudgery, do you know the IMF/ECB had to bail us out and our budget still is in the red, big time. How is it begrudgery that I don't want Ireland to end up like Greece or Argentina in the 80s.

We all know there has to be budgetary cuts and tax increases, so if you can soften these coming blows by catching some welfare stealing criminals, they have my absolute support.

gerryo777 · 28-12-2011 10:26PM

44leto wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what are they to do to reduce the deficit, are those people you posted about in 2011 who can't afford their lifestyle in this economy to pay even higher taxes to support the current levels of welfare fraud.

I say get the cheating bastards and I said that when the economy was good.

We could be reducing our deficit a lot easier and quicker if we didn't pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in anglo and the likes and used that money to
build schools, hospitals and the infrastructure this country is crying out for.
Getting people back to work in these areas is what we should be doing.

gerryo777 · 28-12-2011 10:30PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

Perhaps 500mil based on the reports. Almost enough to pay for the entirety of the new National Children's Hospital. Or enough to employ about 14000 people on the average industrial wage. Not an insignificant amount I'm sure you'll agree.

Or enough to pay the PS pay increments for 2 years!!!

44leto · 28-12-2011 10:33PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

We could be reducing our deficit a lot easier and quicker if we didn't pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in anglo and the likes and used that money to
build schools, hospitals and the infrastructure this country is crying out for.
Getting people back to work in these areas is what we should be doing.

No we wouldn't, that is a one off payment, the 17 billion YEARLY deficit will still be there. We have to reduce running expense costs or gather a greater yearly tax take.

skelliser · 28-12-2011 10:36PM

i call bull**** on this report.

Either the powers that be are ramping up the propaganda on people on the dole like they've been doing the last 2 years.
Or the PS workers in the dole office are adding extra zeros to their figures to justify their insane pay scales.

Rabidlamb · 28-12-2011 10:38PM

Meh, I know of a few local women who mind kids to top up their dole.
I'd never dob them in.
It means that they can meet their mortgage payment & the other family can avail of affordable childcare.
Win/win I say, pedants need not reply, thanks.

gerryo777 · 28-12-2011 10:38PM

44leto wrote: »

No we wouldn't, that is a one off payment, the 17 billion YEARLY deficit will still be there. We have to reduce running expense costs or gather a greater yearly tax take.

Sorry, the money being used to pay the anglo bondholders and to bail out the banks is being borrowed. Do we not have to pay that back? Is there not a massive interest bill to be paid every year? If this wasn't happening, our deficit would have been wiped out by now. It was €17 billion this year because we fired over €10 billion into anglo.

44leto · 28-12-2011 10:41PM

skelliser wrote: »

i call bull**** on this report.

Either the powers that be are ramping up the propaganda on people on the dole like they've been doing the last 2 years.
Or the PS workers in the dole office are adding extra zeros to their figures to justify their insane pay scales.

You do know that the budgetary expenditure is in the public domain. So some hack would have sussed if the reported figures in the report are false.

Besides whatever you say about PS pay levels, that is what they are, they are legally earned, what social welfare frauds steal is not.

gerryo777 · 28-12-2011 10:45PM

44leto wrote: »

Begrudgery, do you know the IMF/ECB had to bail us out and our budget still is in the red, big time. How is it begrudgery that I don't want Ireland to end up like Greece or Argentina in the 80s.

We all know there has to be budgetary cuts and tax increases, so if you can soften these coming blows by catching some welfare stealing criminals, they have my absolute support.

We better catch the PS stealing criminals too then, you know, the ones in this country insisting on pay rises every year since this recession started or the ones who take more than double the 'sick' pay per year than their equivalent in the private sector.....

44leto · 28-12-2011 10:45PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sorry, the money being used to pay the anglo bondholders and to bail out the banks is being borrowed. Do we not have to pay that back? Is there not a massive interest bill to be paid every year? If this wasn't happening, our deficit would have been wiped out by now. It was €17 billion this year because we fired over €10 billion into anglo.

The borrowing is not factored into the deficit, we are borrowing to make ends meet, we are borrowing to maintain public services. The interest is factored into the expenditure, but again that is a yearly cost.

If we didn't pay the bondholders we wouldn't have got the bail out, simples, we had no choice. Don't be listening to Sinn Fein and the masses pandering.

previous user · 28-12-2011 10:46PM

Domo230 wrote: »

My CV got turned down by every McDonald's in Dublin.

Plenty of jobs in Burgerking

melekalikimaka · 28-12-2011 10:52PM

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

senordingdong · 28-12-2011 10:58PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

T'will never happen, the govt. is dependant on these people paying the high excise on fags, booze etc.... to ever replace it with vouchers.

gerryo777 · 28-12-2011 10:58PM

44leto wrote: »

The borrowing is not factored into the deficit, we are borrowing to make ends meet, we are borrowing to maintain public services. The interest is factored into the expenditure, but again that is a yearly cost.

If we didn't pay the bondholders we wouldn't have got the bail out, simples, we had no choice. Don't be listening to Sinn Fein and the masses pandering.

We had a choice ok but we chose and indeed still choose to roll over and be good little germans.
Somebody needs to stand up for this country soon and dobbing in your neighour
because you think they're getting a few more quid a week than their entitled to is not going to get this country back on its feet.
If people here feel that they know someone's else's buisness why don't they say it to their faces and not send anonymous emails to the social.
BTW I'm not a sinn fein supporter and I'm self-employed.

Biggins · 28-12-2011 11:01PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

Its a clear topic for a separate thread but I can't see that happening for some obvious reasons.

bonzos · 28-12-2011 11:11PM

So if I report that my friendly(not) local traveller site in Sligo is thriving on welfare fraud due the the collection of 11 reg bmw's parked outsite some action will be taken????.....ya right! SW has more interest in catching some poor b**tard who paints a room of a neighbour for €50(I know this is also fraud) than dealing with the hardcore gangsters who have being screwing the system for years.

woodoo · 28-12-2011 11:16PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

We had a choice ok but we chose and indeed still choose to roll over and be good little germans.
Somebody needs to stand up for this country soon and dobbing in your neighour
because you think they're getting a few more quid a week than their entitled to is not going to get this country back on its feet.
If people here feel that they know someone's else's buisness why don't they say it to their faces and not send anonymous emails to the social.
BTW I'm not a sinn fein supporter and I'm self-employed.

So you don't seem to have a problem with welfare fraud. But you attack legitimate pay of working public servants at every turn. Interesting.

Its great when some of the anti PS people expose themselves like that on here.

tayto lover · 28-12-2011 11:24PM

What punishment can be inflicted on a SW fraudster apart from making them pay back the money.
We had politicians claiming travelling expenses etc for living down the country when they were living round the corner from the Dail. What happened to them?
Nothing much, I think they might? have paid back the money obtained by their fraud but nothing else.
We can't make fish of one and flesh of another. Like with like.

44leto · 28-12-2011 11:32PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What punishment can be inflicted on a SW fraudster apart from making them pay back the money.
We had politicians claiming travelling expenses etc for living down the country when they were living round the corner from the Dail. What happened to them?
Nothing much, I think they might? have paid back the money obtained by their fraud but nothing else.
We can't make fish of one and flesh of another. Like with like.

I don't agree, yes politicians should be made pay back fraudulent as everyone else. But compared, politicians fraudulent is a pittance in the scheme of things, but you could make potential saving of billions catching fraudulent welfare claims, so go for them. Also it will act as a deterrent for any who would make a fraudulent claim in the future.

tayto lover · 28-12-2011 11:37PM

44leto wrote: »

I don't agree, yes politicians should be made pay back fraudulent as everyone else. But compared, politicians fraudulent is a pittance in the scheme of things, but you could make potential saving of billions catching fraudulent welfare claims, so go for them. Also it will act as a deterrent for any who would make a fraudulent claim in the future.

Don't get me wrong as I am against any kind of fraud. BUT why treat fraudsters differently. A fraudulent politician and a fraudulent citizen should be treated the same. In fact I would expect more of the politician so would make an example of him.

previous user · 29-12-2011 12:04AM

Domo230 wrote: »

Thanks, I sent off CV's to them but never heard back.

I have a job currently but it's good to hear cause you never know when you will have to go back searching.

Plenty of jobs in Supermacs.

Stinicker · 29-12-2011 12:06AM

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Meh, I know of a few local women who mind kids to top up their dole.
I'd never dob them in.
It means that they can meet their mortgage payment & the other family can avail of affordable childcare.
Win/win I say, pedants need not reply, thanks.

It is also quite possible that as a result of their cheaper childcare that the parents involved are able to go out to work and earn their honest living without having to pay their salary to some over regulated politically correct greedy "official" creche who is only paying its childminders minimum wage anyway.

As a result of one persons dole several mothers might be in employment where they otherwise would be on the dole themselves, mortgages are getting paid and people are doing the right thing.

Doc Ruby · 29-12-2011 12:15AM

My name is URL wrote: »

it wouldn't be necessary if the SW system was efficient and thorough in how it functions.

Efficient and thorough? They haven't bothered answering the phone to the public in several years, last I heard.

Stinicker · 29-12-2011 12:30AM

44leto wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what are they to do to reduce the deficit, are those people you posted about in 2011 who can't afford their lifestyle in this economy to pay even higher taxes to support the current levels of welfare fraud.

I say get the cheating bastards and I said that when the economy was good.

I agree and I disagree, yes we should get the cheaters but why cut off the hand of a man who steals a loaf of bread while giving the likes of Bertie Ahern, Sean Fitzpatrick, Sean Gallagher, Fingers and every member of Fianna Fail a good old pat on the back and a wage increase while we are at it. It is these people that are the cheats of society and not the misfortunes who have to depend on the government and draw dole to feed their families.

The amount of welfare fraud is a tiny in comparison to what is done to this country by the above traitors, clamping down welfare fraud is akin to trying to stop the Titanic sinking by bailing out the water with a teaspoon.

We need to stop paying ridiculous money to banks, seize billions from the super wealthy who have stolen from the nation, tell the EU/IMF to get stuffed or we default and collapse their pyramid scheme, cut the civil sector wages and numbers, there is no need for anyone in any job to earn more than €30-€50k a year, slash and burn the high earners and the civil service should be about delivering value for money and also have a social aspect where people can have a good ok paying job and if they mind it they will be ok, crush the unions and their constant demands which have turned the public and civil sector into a massive leech on government.

A job for life in the public sector is worth at least 30% of salary for security. Slash and burn them whilst giving them to choice to put up or shut up, faced with a 25% paycut or involuntary redundancy the majority of high paid public sector workers would agree to it. If you want to earn lots of money then working for the state should not be for you, however if you want job security and average wages then by all means work away.

We have this situation where the wealthiest workers in Ireland come from the overbloated public sector, and the private drones on very low wages are totally crippled to pay the public sector bill and then you have half a million on the bread line living in practical poverty with no stepping stone up.

I am not a socialist or a neo-conservative but I know right from wrong and to create more equitable society there is many things that need to change. It sickens me that people on €50K+ plus would rather crucify the poor fecker on €100/week dole to preserve his own bacon rather than drop a few grand a year and create more work positive opportunities for the economy.

Second only to the mass theft of public monies by Fianna Fail was the Croke Park agreement which was a huge disgrace and attempt by FF to buy out the public workers incase they'd rebel, a pension levy or two later and they roasted FF anyway in the election. I hope this government takes the unpopular choices, burn those that should be burnt and think about the future and not the next election date which has seen nobody think beyond the next election.

The Davestator · 29-12-2011 12:49AM

I reckon that the figures released are bull ****. It's an effective way of making people thinking they're about to be caught and that's fine with me. Don't believe them for a second.

K-9 · 29-12-2011 02:06AM

Agricola wrote: »

Exactly. No one really gave a shít about welfare fraud back in the good old days of 5 years ago. We were all too busy building houses, booking our third foreign holiday of the year and ordering our SUV.
"Sure there loadsa a money around anyway isnt there? What difference if a few people cheat the system, the main thing is Im doing ok and I don't really care"

Skip forward to 2011 and suddenly all these people who can't afford their mortgage repayments, their holidays and their new SUV have become good upstanding citizens and want to root out welfare fraud!
Begrudgery is alive and well. It never went away.

When Unemployment has nearly quadrupled, reports will go up.

Doing a little welfare fraud in 2005 was fine, sure we could afford it, we're rich. What harm is it doing?

Now when Tax Revenue doesn't even cover 50% of the Welfare bill, people are a tad concerned.

Social Welfare reporting figues are 16,000 this year!

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