Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

K-9 wrote: »

The Net Spend argument was always pretty stupid, its particularly thick saying we spent €68 Million since 2007. Monumentally stupid actually, no nice way to put it.

Please explain to me why this is. I know it has probably been discussed a million times on here and I've always tried to not bother with it, so maybe I'm a bit clueless on the situation in comparison to others.

spockety wrote: »

Because football is nowhere near as black and white and predictable as message board contributors on forums all over the Internet would like it to be.

The amount of energy expended and wasted on fruitless comparisons, statistics, and financial analysis really is astonishing.

People go on about the money wrecking football, but really as a supporter Internet forums put more of a wrecking ball to the experience than anything else. It's incredible.

Of course, it isn't as black and white as I may have made it out to be. But I don't think we can deny we have spent very poorly over the past few years.

Really? Why so? I presume most of us post on here to discuss our opinions and listen to others, you are probably the exact same, so why does it ruin the experience?

Mr Alan wrote: »

Funny thing is if Gerrard even for a period had of been fit & Suarez/Carroll a small bit better in front of goal we'd almost have certainly got a win in a couple of games where our general play was undoubtedly deserving of it but we were unable to cross the line & do so. Then we'd be sitting in 4th & every one would be laughing.

There's a lot more right with our set up than wrong with it IMO which is why the hysterical over-reactions here are kinda laughable in my view. The addition of a few more goals into the team,be they from Gerrard, Carroll or a new signing & we're laughing. We're only a gee hair away from where we need to be.

Lets not forget we are 14 points from the top.

4th was always the aim this season but lets not forget how far away we are from the ultimate goal.

It has been too many games where we should have scored this or that - not willing to blame it all on lady luck.

We all knew Gerrard was liable to be injured for parts of the season - everybody said it when we let Aqua go on loan (again) and when we gave into Raul. It is the club's fault for not having a replacement.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Funny thing is if Gerrard even for a period had of been fit & Suarez/Carroll a small bit better in front of goal we'd almost have certainly got a win in a couple of games where our general play was undoubtedly deserving of it but we were unable to cross the line & do so. Then we'd be sitting in 4th & every one would be laughing.

There's a lot more right with our set up than wrong with it IMO which is why the hysterical over-reactions here are kinda laughable in my view. The addition of a few more goals into the team,be they from Gerrard, Carroll or a new signing & we're laughing. We're only a gee hair away from where we need to be.

You are right in that position wise things are not too bad, and compared to this time last season there is quite a bit of improvement.

You are also right in saying that if we had coverted more chances into goals that we would be further up the table. But we have not converted those chances and we are not hitting the half way mark of the season. There is nothing to suggest that the current squad are suddenly going to start banging in more goals on a regular basis, and the arguement of if we had scored more goals things would be better could be used by almost every team in the league to justify a particular arguement.

There are a number of positives that can be taken from where the team is now compared to 12 months back and it would be churlish for anyone to ignore or play down the improvements, but I think it would be just as churlish to try and ignore how poor the team has become in the final third, and to not look at the attacking players which were bought to bolster our firepower.

I think the answer lies somewhere between realising that we are still a club in the midst of a rebuilding process (yes another one) but to not use that rebuilding process as some kind of excuse as to why certain things are poor.

One could even argue a point that all we have done so far under Kenny is strengthen the squad (something that the increase of points per game since last January would support), and that the next step would be to start to add real quality to the squad strengtheners we bought over the last two windows.

Lads, this criticism of Carroll is just a bit nuts. Bunn made one of the best saves of the season to stop Carroll scoring a last minute winner yesterday. If that had gone in, it would be a very different story. People really need to show some patience for Carroll. The problem is people think because of what he cost, he should be amazing already.

spockety wrote: »

Because I think the same argument applies to every club, not just Liverpool.

Show me a club or manager with a perfect record in the transfer market.

It doesn't exist. There is a level of expectation being applied to Liverpool managers (has been like this since Houllier) that is grossly unfair and unachievable.

It simply cannot be done, in my opinion.

From what I've seen across all teams, if you hit a 30% success rate in your transfers you are doing quite well. I wish people would just accept that reality.

In terms of the expectation around Liverpool this season, christ we as supporters are becoming a parody of ourselves.

Your absolutely right, every club in the world makes mistakes regarding tranfers, there are huge flops every year for many clubs in the league and across Europe, but when 3 or 4 of our signings are being discussed as potentially the leagues biggest flops in another thread, I think that's an indication of how poor some of our signings have been.

Liverpool fans do have high expectations, and realistically, IMO we have the 6th best squad in the league and that's where we currently sit. My problem though again comes down to we should have a better squad than that considering the money we spent, but the debate seems to be going around in circles.

PHB wrote: »

Lads, this criticism of Carroll is just a bit nuts. Bunn made one of the best saves of the season to stop Carroll scoring a last minute winner yesterday. If that had gone in, it would be a very different story. People really need to show some patience for Carroll. The problem is people think because of what he cost, he should be amazing already.

To be fair the criticism of Carroll is not just from one save. I was at the game yesterday and he was quite poor overall. Basic things like making runs into the box to meet crosses etc he just did not even attempt.

He seems disinterested more often than not, and it has gotten to the point that when he has an average game he gets praise as it is a step up from some of the performances that he has turned in on a regular basis since joining.

He had a little run of games around the time we played Everton where it looked as if he was starting to turn things around in terms of workrate, interest etc., but that faded quickly and he went back to so so performances coupled with what seems a "meh" attitude on the pitch.

I was one of those that at the start of the season actually thought he was going to catch fire after a full preseason, and be our main goal threat. I still kinda hope something clicks for him, but if he were to be sold in January or next summer I would not be unhappy about it because right now he seems to make an already misfiring attacking line even worse when he is on the pitch.

Wolves lasted 7 minutes..

I'll leave you to it Noodler. We seemingly view things very differently.

If we add a handful more goals to the team either from improved performances or an acquisition or two, we'll be there or thereabouts. That's all I want tbh. Then when we'be a couple of windows/seasons in the CL, we can start worrying about City & Utd.

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I think the acquisition of Bent from Villa could potentially be great for us & possibly be done relatively cheaply due to the situation at Villa.

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'll leave you to it Noodler. We seemingly view things very differently.

If we add a handful more goals to the team either from improved performances or an acquisition or two, we'll be there or thereabouts. That's all I want tbh. Then when we'be a couple of windows/seasons in the CL, we can start worrying about City & Utd.

You should leave it there because you deliberately misrepresented what I said so that your "get a grip" comment would look justified.

Simply pointing out the gap between us and the top does not imply any obsession or misguided view on where we should be aiming this season.

In fact I said 4th was our aim this year so "get a grip" just looks like some inflammatory nonsense designed to garner thanks from other likeminded individuals.

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Mr Alan wrote: »

I think the acquisition of Bent from Villa could potentially be great for us & possibly be done relatively cheaply due to the situation at Villa.

They'll want what they paid for him at the very least. I don't see the owners giving Kenny anymore January cash.

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'll leave you to it Noodler. We seemingly view things very differently.

If we add a handful more goals to the team either from improved performances or an acquisition or two, we'll be there or thereabouts. That's all I want tbh. Then when we'be a couple of windows/seasons in the CL, we can start worrying about City & Utd.

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I think the acquisition of Bent from Villa could potentially be great for us & possibly be done relatively cheaply due to the situation at Villa.

In fairness Alan both you and Noodler are right in what you say, and your scenario is just as likely as his based on what we have seen from the team to date.


I think how the club approaches the winter and summer transfer windows will
be telling. We really need to start adding genuine quality to the first team now. Players that can come in and do a job rather than players whpo might be good in a few seasons. If the club takes that gamble (and buys well) then the purchases I regard as squad buys (Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Adam, and Coates) from the last two windows may make more sense as they would become cover and only be used one or two at a time rather than trying to fit a number of them into the first team at once.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Poulsen & Konchesky were worse than Carroll.

At least the ambition was present in Carroll signing, we were aiming for the stars.

Roy wanted to drag the club down to his level. That's the big difference & why Roy should never have been allowed near the club.

Now I have no particular love for Roy so I'll get that out of the way.

But given the owners he had to work with, the money he had to spend etc I can not for the life of me phathom Liverpool fans who wanted him gone not having similar issues with Kenny.

At least some of the crap Roy bought was done with relatively less financial risk.