Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

niallo27 · 26-12-2011 08:40PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You're like the re-carnation of the Muppet Paully. :pac:

Yea I do, and?

Well at least muppet was funny the odd time, where Paullys posts are like the ramblings of a very special person.

eagle eye · 26-12-2011 08:40PM

Paully D wrote: »

Amazing how a manager who has spent over £105m on players since his time in charge and who has failed to beat the likes of Sunderland, Norwich, Swansea and Blackburn at home, along with the likes of Wigan and Fulham away can continue to walk on water.

Dalglish is yesterday's man (even then he wouldn't have done it at Blackburn without spending a fortune, he failed at Newcastle too). He's out of touch with the modern game and spending a fortune on British based players just isn't going to cut it.

He doesn't even have the excuse of European football causing the players to be jaded, which may have been acceptable, to get him out of it.

You've got to hand it to him though, he could literally go up and piss on the fans in the Kop and they'd be falling down to kiss his shoes.

But hey, at least the football being played is better :rolleyes:

Ridiculous post.

Dalglish has won the Premier League and the old Division One. Its not as if he is just going to walk back in to a team that was starting to fall apart and miraculously turn them into condenders. It takes time.

The way you go on you'd have sacked a lot of great managers before they did their thing. As long as the club is not floundering and is actually in contention for a Champion's League spot I think he is doing a good job there this season.

Turtyturd · 26-12-2011 08:43PM

Paully D wrote: »

Amazing how a manager who has spent over £105m on players since his time in charge and who has failed to beat the likes of Sunderland, Norwich, Swansea and Blackburn at home, along with the likes of Wigan and Fulham away can continue to walk on water.

Dalglish is yesterday's man (even then he wouldn't have done it at Blackburn without spending a fortune, he failed at Newcastle too). He's out of touch with the modern game and spending a fortune on British based players just isn't going to cut it.

He doesn't even have the excuse of European football causing the players to be jaded, which may have been acceptable, to get him out of it.

You've got to hand it to him though, he could literally go up and piss on the fans in the Kop and they'd be falling down to kiss his shoes.

But hey, at least the football being played is better :rolleyes:

Your petty posts about Andy Carroll made better reading.:rolleyes:

Paully D · 26-12-2011 08:45PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Your petty posts about Andy Carroll made better reading.:rolleyes:

I've always said Carroll has the potential to be as good as he wants to be. He proved that when he was at Newcastle.

However, he seems to have given up now he has the big contract and spends most of his time in Aspers Casino.

In fairness the system Liverpool play isn't doing him many favours either, but again Daglish seems to have bought a player without any idea of what he was going to do with him.

daithijjj · 26-12-2011 08:50PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You're like the re-carnation of the Muppet Paully. :pac:

Yea I do, and?

Go start a protest?

What PHB said was 100% correct. People are not happy because Carroll hasnt worked out so far, thats the only issue here.

Newcastle turned down a 30 mil bid for Carroll earlier in the day, they played Abramovich's cheque book, and so did LFC. Again, Carrolls form is the only issue here. LFC had already decided that they would not stand in the way of players who do not want to play for the club and it has happened since with Meireles.

As far as i can see, people should have their issue (if they have one) with whose decision it was to buy Carroll. That decision was Kenny's, so........is it time to change the manager?.

flahavaj · 26-12-2011 08:51PM

super_furry wrote: »

Coyle was never talked about seriously and Grant was never talked about.

I remember discussing both. Coyle was very popular on here.

Mr Alan · 26-12-2011 08:51PM

Tusky wrote: »

You were saying similiar things during the final days of Rafa's reign

Cause I knew that anyone who came after him could only be worse & that there was much worse problems at the club than too much rotation, being cold to players etc, the things most here were preoccupied with.

To say I was proven right very quickly after his departure is an understatement.

Tusky wrote:

and also during Hodgsons time in charge. Now I'm not suggesting the situation we are in at the moment is directly comparable - but you do have a long history of refusing to criticise the team or the setup, even when its warranted.

During the Hodgson times? Are you mad? I was more critical than most about he never should have been near the role.

We're a touch behind where we should be & our strikers have not been near clinical enough this season. Without our captain for all of it. Losing our most influencial midfielder & been really unlucky at times. That's it but it can very easily turned around & we are still dominating games & look excellent at the back.

There's a lot to be positive about without shying away from reasonable criticisms, yet I click in here & the match thread and the tone of a lot is dangerously close to 'Dalglish Out'.

Phoenix Park · 26-12-2011 09:37PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Suarez has become the martyr though. He is untouchable now in terms of constructive criticism from 85% of our fans, by virtue of the unjust racism ban.

He has been poor for 4-5 games. 5 goals and 3 assists in the league isn't exactly a world class return considering the team is being set up to play to his strengths.

Poor finishing and being excessively selfish isn't a good combination, but we will see a different Suarez with better attacking quality around him.

I would like to see Suarez dropped/"rested" for a game (go ahead and lynch me, and no i haven't been on the sauce all day). Most will say i'm deranged and clearly dropping such a creative player is not something to do lightly, but his iconic status is starting to look overplayed and if we are to move forward he needs to be told more is expected. I have never seen a forward blaze so many wide or over as he has in the past few weeks, even 7 chances to a goal Andy Cole had a better ratio surely. At times he is a total headless chicken. His being caught offside (running to the ball when Downing could have been onside to give Carroll a tap in) was a schoolboy error - no vision. Is that one goal in eleven now i think?-without looking it up myself.. sorry, but not good enough even if he's not an out and out "number 9". All our fans think he walks on water-we'll i'm not happy and if he doesn't start scoring more than a goal every 50 shots he takes then have a seat on the bench son and maybe spend an extra hour after training doing shooting practice!. Play Bellamy off Carroll for a game or two and let Maxi keep his place.

I felt a bit sorry for Carroll today. He couldn't do more at the finish-it was a superb save. Also he was caught by surprise when the ball came to him quickly for the one in the first half he hit at the keeper.

Gerrard- great delivery as regards the final ball today- but he clearly was not fit. He gave it away easily a couple of times towards the end and looked tired chasing it down. Still, we looked a lot more threatening going forward with him playing.

Adam is not good enough to be first team for LFC if Lucas is not in the same 11, i don't care what anyone says. Yes, he can play the odd good final ball but he looks a shadow of the player he was when Lucas was there to do the dirty work- and i'm not just picking on him because of the peno and the unlucky OG today. His set-pieces at Blackpool were superb, now he should ask Skrtel to show him how to pick a man out.

Downing- Jesus, i'd have more confidence in front of goal myself. I have rarely seen a more predictable winger, he cuts to his left 95% of the time i'd say. And keep in mind the problems Rovers have had at left back.

Overall watching us in front of goal is like the grinch coming down the chimney and nicking those wonderful socks i got for Christmas. Oh well, lets hope Arsenal and Spurs slip up.

EDIT: By the way, i lied. I have been drinking.

Seamu$ · 26-12-2011 09:47PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Ahh boll0x just read Cavani been linked with Chelsea .

Feckers have ruined my last two long term wish list signings.
First Mata then Lukaku now Cavani

If they go for Cavani I think we should go all out for Higuain who they have previously been linked with. I know we've spent a lot of money on strikers but the issue has to be addressed. Wouldn't like to be the one that has to ask JWH for the £25m though....

K-9 · 26-12-2011 09:51PM

Jaysus lads, you're a sensitive bunch. PHB was saying small clubs change managers every year, that isn't Liverpool and calling for Kenny's head now makes us look small.

As for Mr. Alan, I can't recall him ever backing Hodgson that much so people shouldn't spout crap. The problem was changing Rafa for Hodgson when the club was up for sale. Some of the names spoken about then were a joke, making the Coyle suggestion look reasonable and insightful!

4th was always the target this season, a few thought we'd get higher, underestimating the scale of the job needed while also under estimating Arsenal and Spurs.

mike65 · 26-12-2011 09:56PM

Suarez getting banned as bad as it would be on a personal level would possibly be a good thing on balance for his job and the team. He almost certainly needs a decent rest and it would force the hand of Dalglish to play Carroll most games. Who knows he might just get into a positive groove, wonder if Gerrard can be of help here with quicker movement than the likes of Adam will provide. As for the Captain, I only hope he can lift the side rather than get dragged down to their current level. To think I'd have sold him two summers back, then again I never foresaw an Adam/Henderson midfield.

SlickRic · 26-12-2011 10:52PM

i'm getting more than a little píssed off now.

yes, another visiting reserve goalie saves his side and denies us the 3 points, but i don't care, there's only so many times we can use that as an excuse. it's not merely a luck problem, the team is not being sent onto the pitch with the correct mindset at home.

you see Utd at home, and you know they'll go for the early goal, then control the game.

you see us, and we play our way into the game, thus giving the opposition time to settle into their shape, and we're struggling to break them down. we don't score enough early goals, and we're just so lethargic looking.

the players need to look at themselves, but so does Kenny. there's something not quite right in the way we're approaching games at home.

i'm utterly fed up with it, and the likes of Carroll and Downing really need to start contributing. but so does Suarez. he just isn't scoring enough for someone of his calibre. he's regularly referenced by opposition managers as one of the top 2/3 attacking players in this league. but he needs to start getting some end product too.

he's not our biggest concern, but it's getting a bit worrying all the same.

manual_man · 26-12-2011 11:01PM

Suarez is the worst finisher in the league. He has the worst goals to shots ratio of anyone. We need a poacher alongside him, and get him to pass more. I always saw him as a creative influence anyway, that would get a few goals along the way. How's that lad Raheem Sterling comin along do ye think he'll break into the first team anytime soon

Kirby · 26-12-2011 11:04PM

manual_man wrote: »

Suarez is the worst finisher in the league. He has the worst goals to shots ratio of anyone. We need a poacher alongside him, and get him to pass more. I always saw him as a creative influence anyway, that would get a few goals along the way. How's that lad Raheem Sterling comin along do ye think he'll break into the first team anytime soon

It took victor Moses 41 shots to score a goal. So em, you are wrong about that one.

But you are right about him not being a good finisher. He isn't. But is an excellent attacking player with his movement and dribbling. You will score goals with him in your team....even if he isn't the one on the end of him.

Buy a quality striker in January or play Bellamy in a central role.

Lemlin · 26-12-2011 11:13PM

Liverpool have huge problems when they can't score more than one against Blackburn. Only one of the first choice back four and 'keeper playing today as well in a team that have conceded 39 goals in 18 games.

ShamoBuc · 26-12-2011 11:18PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Liverpool have huge problems when they can't score more than one against Blackburn. Only one of the first choice back four and 'keeper playing today as well in a team that have conceded 39 goals in 18 games.

We would probably have scored more against their first choice back 4 and keeper.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 26-12-2011 11:20PM

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm getting more than a little píssed off now.

yes, another visiting reserve goalie saves his side and denies us the 3 points, but i don't care, there's only so many times we can use that as an excuse. it's not merely a luck problem, the team is not being sent onto the pitch with the correct mindset at home.

you see Utd at home, and you know they'll go for the early goal, then control the game.

you see us, and we play our way into the game, thus giving the opposition time to settle into their shape, and we're struggling to break them down. we don't score enough early goals, and we're just so lethargic looking.

the players need to look at themselves, but so does Kenny. there's something not quite right in the way we're approaching games at home.

i'm utterly fed up with it, and the likes of Carroll and Downing really need to start contributing. but so does Suarez. he just isn't scoring enough for someone of his calibre. he's regularly referenced by opposition managers as one of the top 2/3 attacking players in this league. but he needs to start getting some end product too.

he's not our biggest concern, but it's getting a bit worrying all the same.

The similarities between yourselves and Chelsea this season are frightening. Both teams are rebuilding and and expected to push on and at least get a top for finish, but both teams although creating plenty of chances.
Pool had 28 attempts to Blackburns 5, 13 on target.
Chelsea had 24 attempts with 15 on target.

The common link between us? flipping expensive strikers who cant score!

That Torres\Carroll swap is cursed and weighed down both our clubs.
If only we could both cut our losses and start afresh eh?!

Paully D · 26-12-2011 11:28PM

Kirby wrote: »

Buy a quality striker in January or play Bellamy in a central role.

Surely the owners aren't going to release the cash it would take to buy a top quality striker when you see the shite the manager has served up with funds so far?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-12-2011 11:33PM

Paully D wrote: »

Surely the owners aren't going to release the cash it would take to buy a top quality striker when you see the shite the manager has served up with funds so far?

Eitehr that or sack the manager. Don't think the status quo is an option.

argosy2006 · 26-12-2011 11:38PM

Who ever spends best in January will get 4th, Only one place up for grabs, its between Liverpool Chelsea and Arsenal
P18 W8 D7 L3

Does it really matter where the wins come from, home or away, its pts on the board,We are in good spot with teams above us having to come to anfield,
And we are more likely to beat them at Anfield than Swansea

We will hit a winning run at some stage, 5 wins on bounce ,I feel we have been very unlucky , and luck changes !!!!!!!!!!!

Paully D · 26-12-2011 11:43PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Eitehr that or sack the manager. Don't think the status quo is an option.

I'd say it'd be more along the lines of the owners saying:

''We've given you over £105m with the majority of that spent a few months ago. You can work with what you have (which should be more than enough) for now''.

noodler · 26-12-2011 11:46PM

Paully D wrote: »

I'd say it'd be more along the lines of the owners saying:

''We've given you over £105m with the majority of that spent a few months ago. You can work with what you have (which should be more than enough) for now''.

Precisely right.

I wouldn't be very receptive if Kenny came to me looking for more transfer funds (if I were the appropriate person).

mada999 · 26-12-2011 11:47PM

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

If one good thing happened today it was to see Stevie G back on the pitch

and he was instantly the best player on the pitch... i noticed however when he came on Suarez became more subdued?

tommyhaas · 26-12-2011 11:50PM

Its blatantly obvious that a striker is needed, and today yet again proved that. Andy Carroll isn't that man. He may come good in time, he may not, but given his lack of opportunities the only conclusion I can draw is that Kenny is unimpressed with him in training

It will be interesting to see if the owners back Kenny in the transfer market over January. They have as much interest in seeing the club languish outside the top 4 as any fans do. The longer the club remains outside, the harder its going to be to get back in, as the likes of Spurs reap the benefits of CL money, while Chelsea and City continue to improve courtesy of that bottomless pit they both seem to work out of

For what was spent, the return has been poor. Only Suarez, Enrique and Bellamy can be classified as successes. Adam, while he was good value, isn't in my mind good enough to be starting every week. Downing and Carroll, well I think enough's been said about them, while Henderson and Coates were obviously bought for the future, I would have thought that the money would have been better spent on players capable of making more of an impact this season, players who's price could be repaid by achieving CL football. My point is here, how will the owners appraise how the money was spent, and how much confidence will they have in Dalglish and Commolli's ability to improve on their return on investment? Do Dalglish and Comolli even acknowledge that they made massive mistakes in what was paid, specifically in signing Downing and Carroll?

There was a lot of talk about this moneyball concept when the owners arrived. So far, it would seem to me that the strategy being employed is the opposite of moneyball

The most frustrating aspect of todays result was that it was predictable. United have in their last two games, annihilated sides we struggled to score against. Would anyone back against them doing similar against Rovers? Rovers, Swansea, Norwich, Sunderland, Fulham, Wigan, there's a pattern there. 8pts from the last 15 against sides from the bottom half of the table is abysmal

As much as I want Kenny to succeed, I think his ability to do so will depend on the backing he gets from the owners financially, and his ability to spend better then he has previously. Both this season and last, performances by and large have been promising, but this needs to be turned into results, and without a goalscorer, without spending wisely, I don't see how this can be achieved

mada999 · 26-12-2011 11:50PM

PHB wrote: »

I didn't find that with Hodgson. I found that Liverpool fans were all to quick to bring out the knives when they felt their manager wasn't up to it.

With any luck, the fact that it's King Kenny will mean he is somewhat immune from the incredibly impatience that I find players, owners and worst of all fans have with new managers these days.

Players like Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing were bought for the long-term, not the 5 month period. Ignore the prices paid for them, that's irrelevant now. They are in your squad, and all of them have shown a lot of potential in their careers and can go on to be very good players, if given faith and time to develop. Think of how people responded to Lucas, and think of him now. That's what can happen if young players are let develop.

Steve Clarke or Kenny has done wonders on the defence, with a set of players who imo are just above average, he's got the tightest defense in the league.

It's easy to look back on Rafa's time as a golden age, not least because you were winning things. But imo, by the time he had left the club, irrespective of his impressive achievements while there, the squad was in serious need of re-building.

Hodgson started that process, and was given little to no patience. Then he was replaced by Kenny, who did very well to get the squad to 6th in the league. Now, that's where you are sitting fairly comfortably. 3 points behind Chelsea, who have a much better squad again. Possibly 5 off Arsenal.

Liverpool are not challenging for the title. They will not challenge for the title next season either. However, I'd fully expect them to be in the Europa Cup next season, and fully expect them to be challenging hard for the top 4 in that season. Then, maybe then, the players like Suarez, Carroll, Downing, Henderson, Lucas, Skrtel, Enrique, Reina will be added with another 5-6 players, and then will have a really impressive team that can do something.

Small clubs give managers no time. Panic from one manager to the next, and while maybe maintaining this position, never really progress much. Big clubs make their decision and stick with it. Live with the fact that it could go badly, but it could go well. When you make the right decision, stick with it, it has the potential to win the league. Nothing else does.

p.s. Anyone who trots out the line that Carroll cost 35 million and therefore should be amazing is being silly. Carroll cost Torres - 15 million. If Torres had gone for 40, Carroll would have cost 25. For Liverpool, it's irrelevant what he cost. Ultimately, you got him for Torres + 15. That's the price that should be talked about.

Good post PHB...

th3 s1aught3r · 26-12-2011 11:53PM

noodler wrote: »

I wouldn't be very receptive if Kenny came to me looking for more transfer funds (if I were the appropriate person).

I think the owners should be very receptive to that request
what they have spent is peanuts compared to other top teams
If Liverpool dont spend they wont be in the top 4, this season or next

kingshankly · 26-12-2011 11:54PM

Strange the way people on here now Pinning their hopes on Gerard yet only a few months ago they had him written off

argosy2006 · 26-12-2011 11:56PM

We know back 4 !

Downing_Spearing_Gerrard_Maxi
________Suarez_____
________Bellamy____

Why is Bellamy not given chance to lead the line,He knows how to finish
and is capable of playing 2 games on the bounce, he's not 40!
most natural finisher at club, we need goals

kingshankly · 26-12-2011 11:58PM

It's painful watching downing on the pitch but even more painful watching him on the right wing very frustrating watching him

argosy2006 · 26-12-2011 11:58PM

kingshankly wrote: »

Strange the way people on here now Pinning their hopes on Gerard yet only a few months ago they had him written off

Playing him in a 4 in midfield will only make things worst
Needs free role if he is to shine, Just off striker,
But kenny plays him in Midfield

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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