Some love for synthesizers

pinksoir · 20-12-2011 10:35PM #1

This forum seems very much geared towards guitar and bass. But I'm wondering how many of you are interested in synths.

I've got the synthesizer bug pretty bad at the moment. It started from using VSTs. I really fell in love with the sound of the Yamaha CS-80 from using the soft synth Memorymoog ME80. You might know the CS-80 from Vangelis, eg. the Bladerunner soundtrack, and a bunch of other 70's acts like Stevie Wonder, Jean Michel Jarre, Brian Eno. Daft Punk used one too. Soft synths are great for getting to know the sonic characteristics of real synths and also for becoming familiar with synth programming.

Programming synths is surprisingly easy once you get the hang of it. What put me off for a long time was when I looked at a soft synth I really had no idea what all the functions of the controls were. ADSR, LFO, VCA, VCO, VCF. It scared me cos it just seemed so esoteric and sort of unintuitive. But with a little effort it's easily understood.

Anyway, after a while soft synths didn't cut it any more for me. I wanted the hands on feel of knobs and sliders, not the inaccuracy of a mouse. I bought a V-Machine, which is a sort of VST host module. You can load VSTs onto it and play them live. This was pretty good for a time, especially being able to map knobs and sliders from my midi keyboard to control the VST synths. It wore thin though because generally midi keyboards don't have the right amount of controls to be able to map them to every function of the soft synths. Plus, often I'd forget which button or knob did what.

So I made the switch to hardware. As I said, i loved the CS-80 sound, especially the brassy sound. But CS-80s are BIG money. So I searched about the internets to try and find a decent compromise of sound and price. I found a Yamaha synth of similar vintage called a SK-20. It has a similar sounding filter and oscillator, but is severely limited in programmability. But it's cool.

To begin with I wasn't that interested in mono synths as I came from a piano background. I thought they were too limited, but they really have their own world of functionality. I've got a Yamaha CS-15 in the post from Japan now as I type.

I've also been interested in chiptune for the last few years. But especially in the Commodore 64's music chip, the SID. I used to love the loading music on the games and after being referred to a site called MIDIbox.org, I found that some brilliant dude has come up with a way to build your own SID chip synth called the MIDIbox SID. It's a really versatile synth/sequencer/drum machine that can be built by you or me. The site has links to places that sell pre made PCBs and full kits to do it yourself. There is a great community there too that'll help you should you run into any trouble. I've been working on mine for the past few months and it's coming together slowly but surely.

Next up for me is a Prophet 600 if I can find one!

So, is there anyone else here that has love for synthesis? What gear do you use? What music do you make with them?

rcaz · 21-12-2011 12:42AM

Synthesisers? Yo!

I'm into digital stuff. I do all my stuff at the moment with Ableton Live and Pure Data. I use subtractive and frequency modulation synthesis mostly, but I've been doing lots of sampling lately. Taking samples of guitars or voices and putting pitch shifts and filters and time stretching and other things on them to make them into drum sounds is my new favourite thing to do!

I have a Roland SH-32, which is a really nice ROMpler synth, but I don't use it as often as my laptop 'cause it's not as convenient mostly. It sounds great and all but it's a whole extra piece of gear, with its own power supply, signal cables and a MIDI cable and extra keyboard if you want to play it live. I'd like some analogue gear some day, like a Prophet 5 or an SH-101, but I don't have the money, space, or car I'd need to use them right now

garfieldsghost · 21-12-2011 05:50AM

Good to see some synth love around here!

I have a Moog Prodigy that once upon a time resided in the BBC's Maida Vale studios. Love, love, love it to bits!

I do have a bit of a thing for the Yamaha CS series as well, although I don't own one... would love to own a CS-40M someday.

rcaz · 21-12-2011 12:56PM

Completely forgot to say last night, as soon as I can afford to start spending money on gear relatively regularly, I'll start building a modular synth. I like the idea of buying a rack and PSU, then some basic modules to get started, then like a module a month or as I need/can afford, and ending up with an always-changing synthesiser. Also they look way cooler than any other instrument I know of :cool:

"That kick drum doesn't sound exactly right.... TO THE COMMAND CENTRE!"

pinksoir · 21-12-2011 01:21PM

El Pr0n wrote: »

Synthesisers? Yo!

I'm into digital stuff. I do all my stuff at the moment with Ableton Live and Pure Data. I use subtractive and frequency modulation synthesis mostly, but I've been doing lots of sampling lately. Taking samples of guitars or voices and putting pitch shifts and filters and time stretching and other things on them to make them into drum sounds is my new favourite thing to do!

I've never used Ableton, but I used to do something similar with samples on a program called Octamed back in the day (early 2000's). It was based on the Amiga sequencer and looked like this:

It was incredibly in depth and versatile, and actually very logical and intuitive.

I've seen you talk about Pure Data on here a good bit. It looks interesting enough, but I've spent years on the software side of stuff already. It can be a little bit too absorbing!

I have a Roland SH-32, which is a really nice ROMpler synth, but I don't use it as often as my laptop 'cause it's not as convenient mostly. It sounds great and all but it's a whole extra piece of gear, with its own power supply, signal cables and a MIDI cable and extra keyboard if you want to play it live. I'd like some analogue gear some day, like a Prophet 5 or an SH-101, but I don't have the money, space, or car I'd need to use them right now

The Prophet 5 is always the dream. At 3000+ it's pretty unlikely though..!

garfieldsghost wrote: »

Good to see some synth love around here!

I have a Moog Prodigy that once upon a time resided in the BBC's Maida Vale studios. Love, love, love it to bits!

I do have a bit of a thing for the Yamaha CS series as well, although I don't own one... would love to own a CS-40M someday.

Yah, the CS-15 I picked up is an amazing synth . It's considered by many to be the best vintage monophonic synth besides the Minimoog. Whether that's true is obviously debatable and down to personal taste, but it's definitely incredibly versatile - 2 VCOs each with their own multimode filter and filter ADSR. It can go from very warm and mellow to outright harsh and cold, and plenty more besides. Plus it has audio input, which you can route the headphone-out back into to get that sound from Daft Punk's Da Funk. It's also duophonic, but duophony can only be achieved by using another keyboard through CV in.

It's quite underrated and under-appreciated. I bought mine for under 500 from Japan, post included, so it's also one of the cheapest mono synths.

pinksoir · 21-12-2011 04:37PM

El Pr0n wrote: »

Completely forgot to say last night, as soon as I can afford to start spending money on gear relatively regularly, I'll start building a modular synth. I like the idea of buying a rack and PSU, then some basic modules to get started, then like a module a month or as I need/can afford, and ending up with an always-changing synthesiser. Also they look way cooler than any other instrument I know of :cool:

"That kick drum doesn't sound exactly right.... TO THE COMMAND CENTRE!"

Ha. Yeah, modular. The final frontier. Definitely cool.

Mr NoTV · 26-12-2011 12:46PM

I have modular - Roland System 100m with 3 Roland System controlling keyboards and sequencer - awesome, complex sounds. I can put any of my other 14 synths through it or it through some of the other analogue synths or analogue outboards. I've owned modular for around 15 years and should have bought into it earlier. I was going to buy a VCS3 and an AKS in the 1970's but went down the Japanese line instead.

rcaz · 26-12-2011 03:04PM

Mr NoTV wrote: »

I have modular - Roland System 100m with 3 Roland System controlling keyboards and sequencer - awesome, complex sounds. I can put any of my other 14 synths through it or it through some of the other analogue synths or analogue outboards. I've owned modular for around 15 years and should have bought into it earlier. I was going to buy a VCS3 and an AKS in the 1970's but went down the Japanese line instead.

Pics? :pac:

rcaz · 28-12-2011 01:11PM

Saw this link posted over in Music Production, sonicstate.com did a list of the 20 Best Synthesisers ever or something and here's a list of commercial and free software clones of them;

http://musicandrecordingtoolbox.blogspot.com/2008/09/vst-discovery-special-feature.html

I'll be getting a few of them this evening :cool:

pinksoir · 28-12-2011 04:57PM

Yah, I saw that too but you beat me too it!

There are some really amazing VSTis out there. Have fun!

If you decide to try out a CS-80, try the Memorymoon ME80. It's far superior to the Arturia one, and a tenth of the price:

http://www.memorymoon.com/me80.htm

Obviously there's a demo too. I found their other emulations, esp the Prophet 5, to be much closer to the real thing than the alternatives too.

This nutjob loved it so much he built a midi controller for it from (I think) a Doepfer midi kit. Looks really good:

http://www.synth-project.de/Project-5.html

He's built a ton of controllers for various VSTis and I have to say they're very impressive.

I'm in the middle of building a midiBox SID at the moment and am going to build a control surface for it too, taking inspiration from his builds.

Should (hopefully) look something like this when it's done...

garfieldsghost · 30-12-2011 04:48AM

Those MIDIbox SID synths look interesting... are you finding it straightforward to build?

pinksoir · 30-12-2011 03:13PM

Yah, it's fairly easy. Any problems I ran into I got help with from the community. You can order the PCBs and parts from two different sites, one in the US and one in Germany. I bought my kits from Germany, but by all accounts the US ones seem a lot better. Price difference was negligible really.

The one thing I'd recommend is to read through and familiarise yourself with what it entails, then plan out exactly what you want before going ahead and ordering. There are a bunch of different control surfaces you could go for.

I'm building a stand alone synth, but you can be as simple or as complex as you need/want/money allows. You can always expand the control surface at a later time if you want.

Some good kits are the
Sammich SID (I think he's doing his last batch now though, so be quick if you want one) and the MB6582 (probably the most popular, most supported)

Some helpful links are:
Ucapps.de - project site
Midibox.org - community forum
SmashTV - US kits, parts and PCBs
Mikes Elektronikseite - German kits, parts and PCBs

It might seem a bit overwhelming to begin with, but if you read at your leisure and slowly plan what you want you can ease yourself in. It's pretty straightforward and the community is really great. You might have to wait a day for a response but someone will help. No question is too simple or too complex.

Make sure your soldering skills are up to scratch though. There's a lorra lorra soldering...

happyman81 · 30-12-2011 06:14PM

I am just starting out where you began OP, using Ableton to run emulators such as Minimogue.

Like you, I would really like a physical synth, but find the price prohibitive. Are there any modern devices that are analog or emulate analog that are under €500? Not a controller, but a standalone device. Just something to start out with, but still stage worthy.

This is my dream, btw:

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm

garfieldsghost · 30-12-2011 06:47PM

happyman81 wrote: »

Like you, I would really like a physical synth, but find the price prohibitive. Are there any modern devices that are analog or emulate analog that are under €500? Not a controller, but a standalone device. Just something to start out with, but still stage worthy.

This is my dream, btw:

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm

You should check out the Roland GAIA. It's a VA synth with an old-school analogue-style interface, unlike other VAs like the Venom, etc. It costs around €550-€570, but you should be able to find them secondhand on eBay for less.

My bandmate has one and it's great fun to play and trick around with.

pinksoir · 31-12-2011 01:59PM

happyman81 wrote: »

I am just starting out where you began OP, using Ableton to run emulators such as Minimogue.

Like you, I would really like a physical synth, but find the price prohibitive. Are there any modern devices that are analog or emulate analog that are under €500? Not a controller, but a standalone device. Just something to start out with, but still stage worthy.

This is my dream, btw:

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm

There are a lot of VA, or virtual analog, synths available. They became popular in the 90's, but they've come a long way since.

It really depends what sound you want/type of music you make.

POLYPHONIC

By all accounts the Roland JP8000 is a good VA. Available on eBay pretty regularly, there's even one on Adverts at the mo -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/jp8000.php

Then there is the Korg MS2000. A good VA, but only 4 note polyphony. Also pretty common on fleabay and there was one on adverts recently for under €400 -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/ms2000.php

The Oberheim OB-12 is a good synth too. A modern take on the classic Oberheim sound. Prices €6-700 and I think there's one on Adverts at the moment -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/oberheim/ob12.php

There's the Dave Smith Prophet 08 too which is a modern (true) analog but is pricey enough (over €1000 used) -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/dsi/p08.php

MONOPHONIC

For monophonic, you have a lot of cheap options. If you want a modern analog the Dave Smith Mopho is good. One sold on Adverts recently for under €400. Available as a desktop or full keyboard synth -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/dsi/mopho.php

For vintage mono synths you have a lot of choice for the ~500 price range. The Yamaha CS series (CS5, CS10, CS15) which are fantastic synths and only going to go up in price. Very highly regarded and a CS5 was on Adverts the other day for €375. I bought my CS15 from Japan for under €500 posted-
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/cs5.php
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/cs10.php
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/cs15.php

Then there's the Roland SH1000. A preset mono synth. Very cool, though a little restricted editability-wise. Still more than enough on it to keep you busy and make great sounds. It was a toss up between this and the CS15 for me. One sold on eBay for ~€500 last week. Before that one sold for €375. It's well capable of getting sounds very close to the Ondes Martenot -
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/sh1000.php

The Jen Synthetone SX1000 is a cool little mono synth too. One went on Adverts recently for €350 I think and regularly on ebay.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/sh1000.php

You have a ton of options. Most people can't afford a Minimoog. The prices are ridiculous. Thankfully there are loads of alternatives if you don't have to have the exact Moog sound. My advice is to look through VintageSynthExplorer and try to decide which one you want.

If you want o go the vintage route sit tight and wait until one comes up you can afford. Have a price in your head you want to pay and don't go over it. Fairly priced synths come up all the time both on Adverts and eBay. You just have to be patient. eBay is driving the prices of synths up, partly because sellers are putting ridiculous BIN prices on them, but mostly because buyers are paying the ridiculous prices enough to encourage sellers to keep them high. Auctions are mental too, cos all you need is one or two people bidding with more money than sense and a €500 synth can go for €1200 or more. You need to have a price in your head and stick to it.

The good thing about vintage analog is that the resale value is equal to what you paid. So if you buy a synth and decide you don't like it, you can sell it on and not make a loss. Plus, at least for the moment, the prices are still going up so you may even make a small profit if you decide to sell in the future to upgrade or whatever.

happyman81 · 31-12-2011 02:45PM

Awesome.

garfieldsghost · 18-01-2012 09:25PM

Here's a nice surprise... Arturia are introducing an analogue synth called the Minibrute which looks like a whole lot of fun. Expected retail price is $550/€428.

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/01/18/arturia-minibrute-analog-synthesizer-sneak-preview/

rcaz · 19-01-2012 10:23PM

garfieldsghost wrote: »

Here's a nice surprise... Arturia are introducing an analogue synth called the Minibrute which looks like a whole lot of fun. Expected retail price is $550/€428.

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/01/18/arturia-minibrute-analog-synthesizer-sneak-preview/

That thing looks deadly! Really cool move for Arturia too!

happyman81 · 20-01-2012 10:01AM

So close to buying that GAIA right now. I have been writing more keyboardy songs to justify it! :-)

garfieldsghost · 23-01-2012 12:29PM

happyman81 wrote: »

So close to buying that GAIA right now. I have been writing more keyboardy songs to justify it! :-)

Nice one! I've noticed lately that a lot of big acts have started using the GAIA on tour. Have seen photos of it in stage set-ups for Lady Gaga and The Prodigy.

happyman81 · 29-02-2012 11:42AM

Where in Dublin can I get a GAIA? Waltons sell them for €583 but refused to offer any deal on one.

Dord · 29-02-2012 01:08PM

happyman81 wrote: »

Where in Dublin can I get a GAIA? Waltons sell them for €583 but refused to offer any deal on one.

Xmusic are the main Roland dealer in Dublin, so I'd say there would be the best place.

punchdrunk · 29-02-2012 10:31PM

I'm currently rocking a vintage Korg MS-10,and an ipad/Moog animoog combo (using some kind of roland midi keyboard-can't remember what model I've got)

add to that a kaoss pad,a Linn design adrenalinn III,and EHX 16 sec delay,a 70's copicat,and an original 301 space echo and i've loads to be playing with!

did i mention Animoog sounds incredible!! it's a serious music making tool
I've been pretending I'm vangelis all week :pac:

planning on buying a korg monotribe soon,and then hacking it for midi
with a kit from these guys
http://amazingmachines.com.br/

garfieldsghost · 01-03-2012 01:07AM

happyman81 wrote: »

Where in Dublin can I get a GAIA? Waltons sell them for €583 but refused to offer any deal on one.

As Dord said, try Xmusic if you want to buy one in the Dublin area for a decent price. Thomann sell them for €579, which includes shipping from Germany. Also, I just checked Adverts.ie and there are a few secondhand Gaias for sale there for around €450-€480.

There's a Gaia users forum at www.gaiausers.com that's worth checking out. One of their members developed a handy piece of software for editing patches, arpeggiator settings, etc. You can download it here: www.grauw.nl/projects/gaia-tool. It's generally considered to be better than Roland's own software for it, which you have to pay for.

garfieldsghost · 01-03-2012 01:14AM

punchdrunk wrote: »

I'm currently rocking a vintage Korg MS-10,and an ipad/Moog animoog combo (using some kind of roland midi keyboard-can't remember what model I've got)

add to that a kaoss pad,a Linn design adrenalinn III,and EHX 16 sec delay,a 70's copicat,and an original 301 space echo and i've loads to be playing with!

did i mention Animoog sounds incredible!! it's a serious music making tool
I've been pretending I'm vangelis all week :pac:

planning on buying a korg monotribe soon,and then hacking it for midi
with a kit from these guys
http://amazingmachines.com.br/

Show-off! :pac:

What are you using to link up the iPad and the keyboard?

happyman81 · 01-03-2012 08:39AM

garfieldsghost wrote: »

happyman81 wrote: »

Where in Dublin can I get a GAIA? Waltons sell them for €583 but refused to offer any deal on one.

As Dord said, try Xmusic if you want to buy one in the Dublin area for a decent price. Thomann sell them for €579, which includes shipping from Germany. Also, I just checked Adverts.ie and there are a few secondhand Gaias for sale there for around €450-€480.

There's a Gaia users forum at www.gaiausers.com that's worth checking out. One of their members developed a handy piece of software for editing patches, arpeggiator settings, etc. You can download it here: www.grauw.nl/projects/gaia-tool. It's generally considered to be better than Roland's own software for it, which you have to pay for.

I went ahead and bought it in Waltons, the shop is around the corner from where I live and I dont have a car so the Xmusic or Adverts options were kinda tough for me, and I don't like making big purchases from Thomann in case something goes wrong.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the synth, even though I haven't a bloody clue what I'm doing, it's my first. Those websites are handy, thanks.

garfieldsghost · 01-03-2012 08:47PM

happyman81 wrote: »

Anyway, I'm very happy with the synth, even though I haven't a bloody clue what I'm doing, it's my first. Those websites are handy, thanks.

Best of luck with it!

If you're just starting out, I'd recommend reading 'Analog Synthesizers' by Mark Jenkins, which will teach you all you need to know.

happyman81 · 01-03-2012 10:14PM

garfieldsghost wrote: »

happyman81 wrote: »

Anyway, I'm very happy with the synth, even though I haven't a bloody clue what I'm doing, it's my first. Those websites are handy, thanks.

Best of luck with it!

If you're just starting out, I'd recommend reading 'Analog Synthesizers' by Mark Jenkins, which will teach you all you need to know.

I was just going to ask for literature, because I am bit lost, I must admit. At this stage I am trying to replicate sounds I heard in songs. I basically like the Radiohead, Midlake, Grandaddy and Pink Floyd style. Simple but effective. Harder than I thought!

Thanks

happyman81 · 03-03-2012 04:44PM

Ordered the book. I have also been reading this, very informative and extensive.

www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Also a free dual channel oscilloscope for PC. handy for analysing waveforms:

http://hotamateurprograms.com/downloads.htm

happyman81 · 13-03-2012 03:03PM

I got that book by Jenkins. Upon first glance it appears to mainly be about the history of synthesisers, rather than an in-depth technical look at how different modules/elements create the various sounds. Am I wrong?

punchdrunk · 14-03-2012 11:45AM

garfieldsghost wrote: »

Show-off! :pac:

What are you using to link up the iPad and the keyboard?

just an irig midi,no issues with it except my newer midi Keyboard has that printer USB type cable connection,so I've no way to hook it up as the irig only comes with those 8 pin DIN type leads

Some love for synthesizers

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