Septic Tank Charge Protest in Galway

johnr1 · 20-12-2011 01:31AM

dilbert2 wrote: »

Eh, hang on now - most houses were tiny in comparison today and housed up to 10+ people. Most of the one off south forks today are inhabited by families of 4-5 people. Also, if I'm not mistaken - wasn't the population in clachans dispersed after the famine by the Western Districts Board to stop the spread of disease. Another fact that I'm sure the lads on the pro-one off side will try their best to manoeuvre their way around when the old "one offs are a part of our heritage" :rolleyes: argument comes up again.

But this is exactly the opposite to what you said in your other rant on one-offs. I can't be bothered to dig it up for you but one pillar of your sh1te argument was that these large houses are home only to one or two people, and therefore unnecessary and wasteful of resources.

At the very least, try to remember the crap you already posted. :rolleyes:

Oh, - maybe that wasn't you at all, that was Clareboy,- another person enitrely....

dilbert2 wrote: »

You're talking a load of sh!te in fairness, must be that glass of water you had for supper repeating itself :rolleyes:

dilbert2 · 20-12-2011 01:36AM

You just know that recently ousted Fianna Fail gombeens aregoing to take advantage of this move (on behalf of environmental protection and common sense) come the next local elections to get back into power (and get the supporting local votes) don't you :rolleyes: .

mikom · 20-12-2011 01:40AM

Money racket.
Faith in government..... minus 10 points

oppenheimer1 · 20-12-2011 01:42AM

mikom wrote: »

Money racket.
Faith in government..... minus 10 points

I don't think so. The government are being fined by the EU due to non compliance. These charges are to cover the cost of the fine afaik.

dilbert2 · 20-12-2011 01:43AM

mikom wrote: »

Faith in government..... minus 10 points

Yeah let's punish the bunch of tree hugging, environmental protecting, one off polluting hating hippies in the next election. Vote Fianna Fail, sure they f!cked up the economy for the next generation, but they'll save you €50! As daft as that sounds, it's the mentality of a lot of people in this country (even today), and I can see moves like this been used to FF's advantage to make their come back.

starbelgrade · 20-12-2011 01:45AM

dilbert2 wrote: »

You just know that recently ousted Fianna Fail gombeens is going to take advantage of this move on behalf of environmental protection and common sense come the next local elections to get back into power (and get the supporting local votes) don't you :rolleyes: .

Well, seeing as in the election of 2007 that Fianna Fail got nearly all the seats in the Dublin constituencies, and that this is essentially an issue that will effect only rural dwellers, then for once, you could actually be right.

Though I imagine that you think that Fianna Fail only get votes from gombeens outside of Dublin and that parish pump politics only exist in parishes outside of the Pale. And on that front, you would be wrong.

overshoot · 20-12-2011 01:46AM

dilbert2 wrote: »

Eh, hang on now - most houses were tiny in comparison today and housed up to 10+ people. Most of the one off south forks today are inhabited by families of 4-5 people. Also, if I'm not mistaken - wasn't the population in clachans dispersed after the famine by the Western Districts Board to stop the spread of disease. Another fact that I'm sure the lads on the pro-one off side will try their best to manoeuvre their way around when the old "one offs are a part of our heritage" :rolleyes: argument comes up again.

yes i said the houses contained more going back but an 80+% of an 8million population in rural at 10 a house, vs now and 60-70% in Urban and a lower number per house. i think house numbers will still be similar/lower. the point still stands that our landscape has always been covered. the old houses didnt vanish with the 2 million dead/emmigrated inhabitants and the gradual further 2million decline that followed.
either way the basic problem remains with your argument, architectural value is subjective. (even though i do agree and most looks like shite), but then again so does most of what was built in the towns. the basic problem is the country has no real appreciation of architecture. the cheaper 10k house will win even if it improved the standard of living
and as starbelgrade says, even if like spain an architect has to sign off on it, there will always be an architect, like the woodwork teacher who will hand in shite

mikom · 20-12-2011 01:48AM

dilbert2 wrote: »

Yeah let's punish the bunch of tree hugging, environmental protecting, one off polluting hating hippies in the next election. Vote Fianna Fail, sure they f!cked up the economy for the next generation, but they'll save you €50! As daft as that sounds, it's the mentality of a lot of people in this country (even today), and I can see moves like this been used to FF's advantage to make their come back.

Some leap.
However the recent poll saw a rise in FF support.

oppenheimer1 · 20-12-2011 01:55AM

overshoot wrote: »

yes i said the houses contained more going back but an 80+% of an 8million population in rural at 10 a house, vs now and 60-70% in Urban and a lower number per house. i think house numbers will still be similar/lower. the point still stands that our landscape has always been covered. the old houses didnt vanish with the 2 million dead/emmigrated inhabitants and the gradual further 2million decline that followed.
either way the basic problem remains with your argument, architectural value is subjective. (even though i do agree and most looks like shite), but then again so does most of what was built in the towns. the basic problem is the country has no real appreciation of architecture. the cheaper 10k house will win even if it improved the standard of living
and as starbelgrade says, even if like spain an architect has to sign off on it, there will always be an architect, like the woodwork teacher who will hand in shite

And this has what to do with septic tanks?

Back on topic... As I've said, much of Ireland isn't suited to septic tanks - even the home sewage plants can often be temperamental and ineffective. The best solution would be the use of holding tanks emptied once a year at the local sewage treatment facility.

That said much of the sewage treatment in Ireland is only getting to european standards of late and this infrastructure wouldn't be able to cope with high pulse loads from one off tanks. Up until a few years ago a boat filled with effluent used to sail out into Dublin bay and dump its load in the sea.

overshoot · 20-12-2011 01:58AM

nada, i think iv given in to dilbert's trolling so its time for me to leave

dilbert2 · 20-12-2011 02:02AM

overshoot wrote: »

nada, i think iv given in to dilbert's trolling so its time for me to leave

Dilberts trolling? Don't think so. I'm just glad to see some environmental standards been enforced in areas which were previously careless when it came to issues surrounding pollution and environmental preservation. It's also of benefit to the tight wads whinging about paying a little fee of €50, because it will be keeping an environmental check on the area they are living in, including the water they are drinking.

amacca · 20-12-2011 02:03AM

dilbert2 wrote: »

.

I preferred dilbert1...what ever happened to that guy?...oh how he used amuse me with his pro one off housing rants!

not to mention dilbert...the scallywag

and then dildo..now he was a totally different bag of cats.

starbelgrade · 20-12-2011 02:08AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Up until a few years ago a boat filled with effluent used to sail out into Dublin bay and dump its load in the sea.

Effectively, that still happens - the last EPA report on wastewater treatment found that over 100 treatment plants were discharging waste directly into rivers or the sea without any treatment whatsoever.

On top of that, over half of the waste water treatment plants in the country were found to be substandard by EU standards.

And the biggest offenders in the country for pollution to water & ground water comes not from one off rural houses with septic tanks, but from treatment plants that deal with waste from areas with between 2,000 and 15,000 people.

amacca · 20-12-2011 02:12AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

On top of that, over half of the waste water treatment plants in the country were found to be substandard by EU standards.

And the biggest offenders in the country for pollution to water & ground water comes not from one off rural houses with septic tanks, but from treatment plants that deal with waste from areas with between 2,000 and 15,000 people.

are there any plans to deal with that issue to reduce the EU fines or do these problems have a bearing on the fines do you know?

starbelgrade · 20-12-2011 02:32AM

amacca wrote: »

are there any plans to deal with that issue to reduce the EU fines or do these problems have a bearing on the fines do you know?

The fines Ireland are facing are as a result of failing to meet the required standards of the EU Water Framework Directive, 2000 and the biggest offenders by far on that front are the large waste water treatment plants.

The spin that this is all down to septic tanks is a complete red herring which I suspect is meant to deflect away from the real issue, which is that our failure to deal with waste water in any effective way is seriously affecting the quality & safety of our drinking water... a fact that both the ERSI and the EPA have been trying to highlight with little or no joy for a number of years now.

mikom · 20-12-2011 02:39AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

The fines Ireland are facing are as a result of failing to meet the required standards of the EU Water Framework Directive, 2000 and the biggest offenders by far on that front are the large waste water treatment plants.

The spin that this is all down to septic tanks is a complete red herring which I suspect is meant to deflect away from the real issue, which is that our failure to deal with waste water in any effective way is seriously affecting the quality & safety of our drinking water... a fact that both the ERSI and the EPA have been trying to highlight with little or no joy for a number of years now.

As I said....

mikom wrote: »

Money racket.
Faith in government..... minus 10 points

oppenheimer1 · 20-12-2011 02:43AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Effectively, that still happens - the last EPA report on wastewater treatment found that over 100 treatment plants were discharging waste directly into rivers or the sea without any treatment whatsoever.

On top of that, over half of the waste water treatment plants in the country were found to be substandard by EU standards.

And the biggest offenders in the country for pollution to water & ground water comes not from one off rural houses with septic tanks, but from treatment plants that deal with waste from areas with between 2,000 and 15,000 people.

I think, but I am open to correction on this - for these population sizes, only primary treatment is provided. Wholly inadequate. I agree that this should be tackled (more urgently even) but the fact remains that we have a problem in rural areas that also needs to be addressed.

One problem shouldn't be an excuse to neglect dealing with the other. Both - in tandem, if we are serious about dealing with water pollution.

starbelgrade · 20-12-2011 10:07AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I think, but I am open to correction on this - for these population sizes, only primary treatment is provided. Wholly inadequate. I agree that this should be tackled (more urgently even) but the fact remains that we have a problem in rural areas that also needs to be addressed.

One problem shouldn't be an excuse to neglect dealing with the other. Both - in tandem, if we are serious about dealing with water pollution.

It used to be the case that a lot of the wastewater only went through primary treatment, but secondary treatment is now up on around 90%, yet the failure rate is still startlingly high.

I agree though that there's no point in addressing a leaky septic tank if a treatment plant is insufficient & vice versa.

I don't agree with Mikom though that this is primarily a money making racket for the government, though I do think that they are using this issue to deflect away from a much bigger picture.

Fear Uladh · 20-12-2011 10:19AM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Sceptic ****

You should see a doctor about that.

FroJoe · 11-01-2012 05:47PM

It is just a tax, a sly tax that I wont be paying anyway. A tax on people who didn't buy houses in towns! Someone who builds a house on their parents farm land cause they cant afford to buy a house in a town has to pay €50 to make sure his septic tank works, what ****! MY septic tank is in MY garden and if someone wants to come in and tells me they are going to look my tank, they'll be looking at my dogs first!!

Marzipan85 · 11-01-2012 06:55PM

FroJoe wrote: »

It is just a tax, a sly tax that I wont be paying anyway. A tax on people who didn't buy houses in towns! Someone who builds a house on their parents farm land cause they cant afford to buy a house in a town has to pay €50 to make sure his septic tank works, what ****! MY septic tank is in MY garden and if someone wants to come in and tells me they are going to look my tank, they'll be looking at my dogs first!!

yeah but YOUR tank could be poisoning OTHER PEOPLE'S water supply and environment. no man is an island.

AudreyHepburn · 11-01-2012 07:04PM

I fail to understand why people in this country expect to have everything handed to them for free while also expecting the government to make money magically appear out of thin air.

Everything comes with a prices folks, it's time we faced up to this simple fact.

Clareboy · 11-01-2012 10:36PM

The whole septic tank row is just another example of how bad planning and too many one off houses have destroyed our environment.

Tazio · 11-01-2012 10:44PM

Marzipan85 wrote: »

FroJoe wrote: »

It is just a tax, a sly tax that I wont be paying anyway. A tax on people who didn't buy houses in towns! Someone who builds a house on their parents farm land cause they cant afford to buy a house in a town has to pay €50 to make sure his septic tank works, what ****! MY septic tank is in MY garden and if someone wants to come in and tells me they are going to look my tank, they'll be looking at my dogs first!!

yeah but YOUR tank could be poisoning OTHER PEOPLE'S water supply and environment. no man is an island.

Not if you have your own well water supply... that is tested twice a year at 90€ a pop..

Youll poison yourself long before your nearest neighbour.

My name is URL · 11-01-2012 10:51PM

The money raised by septic tank inspections will hardly cover the costs of electively adding other pollutants to the public water supply. Swings and roundabouts really.

If I had a certified septic tank and my own water supply there is no chance in hell I'd be paying for any government inspection.

John_Rambo · 11-01-2012 11:12PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

And the biggest offenders in the country for pollution to water & ground water comes not from one off rural houses with septic tanks

Not the case I'm afraid.

Draft paper from 2005 from Doctor Jack.

Joanne Blennerhassett
Lecturer in Law, UCD Faculty of Law
LLB (Dub) LLM (NIU)MCIArb, Solicitor

The principal sources of phosphate and nitrogen compounds in Ireland are losses from agricultural activities, forestry and municipal and industrial waste discharges. But, when it come to human sewage...

Until recently this was a major contributor to lake pollution. To the credit of the government and local authorities, at present and recently, millions has and is being spent upgrading of sewage treatment plants- so this threat is being alleviated with modern treatment facilities. Main cities discharge sewage into the sea 46 %. After sewage is treated, the residual sludges are spread on agricultural land- happens with 29% of Irish treated sewage (Sweden for example has banned this-reasons:- (1) sewage sludge may contain germs causing hepatitis, intestinal flukes, tapeworms and food poisoning; (2) sludges contain heavy metals posing serious environmental hazards- eg lead; cadmium & mercury.) A major problem contributing to lake pollution remains the inadequacy of septic tanks. Papers are presently being prepared by the European Commission for a case against Ireland for non-implementation of the Groundwater Directive, specifically regarding infringements in the use of septic tanks. Commission is concerned assessment of sites being inadequate. Standards required of septic tanks need updating from early 90s. No requirements for maintenance of septic tanks- re regularly cleaning, steps to ensure they are not causing pollution. We will no doubt be hearing of further developments on septic tanks as this case against Ireland takes
shape.

starbelgrade · 12-01-2012 12:02AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Not the case I'm afraid.
.

There is nothing contained in that section of the draft paper which contradicts anything I have said. She says that septic tanks are a major contributing factor to groundwater pollution, but she does not say that they are the major contributing factor. And while she mentions that steps have been taken by local authorities in increasing the effectiveness of how they deal with sewage, she only mentions what happens with 46% of sewage from the main cities - there is no mention of what happens across the rest of the country or indeed in areas which have no direct access to the coast, which is the majority of the country.

My argument is based upon published information which is freely available from both the Environmental Protection Agency & the Department of the Environment.

Your dismissal is based on a draft paper that was written in 2005 and was never published. And it doesn't even contradict what I was saying.

Not exactly a 'top trump', now is it?

John_Rambo · 12-01-2012 12:09AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

freely available from both the Environmental Protection Agency & the Department of the Environment

I can't find the part you are talking about to be honest with you.

starbelgrade · 12-01-2012 12:28AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I can't find the part you are talking about to be honest with you.

I think I posted links earlier in this thread.

I had trouble finding the information I wanted too - it is freely available though, just not that easy to find!

John_Rambo · 12-01-2012 12:50AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I think I posted links earlier in this thread.

I had trouble finding the information I wanted too - it is freely available though, just not that easy to find!

I don't see any links starbelgrade, and I can't find any of the info. No "trump cards" as you put it. But, in fairness it could be there, just hard to find. If you travel on any of the lakes and rivers you will see the run off clearly from mainly bad farm practice and septic tanks. Most higher population areas have fairly good sewerage treatments. The lakes and rivers actually get cleaner as you hit the centres. Enforced bigger responsibilities recently has ensured that larger population densities have to have decent treatment plants. Dublin bay is incredibly clean since the '**** ship' was decommissioned from service. It was an underwater desert back then, I spent a lot of time in and on the water then and still do. The fact that the three main rivers (Liffey, Tolka and Dodder) are spawning salmon today is concrete evidence.

Inspection, demand for improvement, further inspection and then fines for no improvement may have been a better option. One way or another, something has to be done about the problem. It's poison to us and our environment.

Septic Tank Charge Protest in Galway

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