Irish Government is set to censor the internet

Stuxnet · 20-12-2011 12:03AM

Howard L Berman the gimp behind the SOPA act in America
check out his top political donator's... the media inc

politicians dont give a **** who downloads what, they are playing puppets to industry

http://i.imgur.com/mvQrQ.png

god forbid we might be sensible like the Swiss govt, and DO A STUDY and use FACTS not bowing to what the record/movies companies say

One in three people in Switzerland download unauthorized music, movies and games from the Internet and since last year the government has been wondering what to do about it. This week their response was published and it was crystal clear. Not only will downloading for personal use stay completely legal, but the copyright holders won’t suffer because of it, since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products.

In Switzerland, just as in dozens of other countries, the entertainment industries have been complaining about dramatic losses in revenue due to online piracy.

In a response, the Swiss government has been conducting a study into the impact downloading has on society, and this week their findings were presented.

The overall conclusion of the study is that the current copyright law, under which downloading copyrighted material for personal use is permitted, doesn’t have to change.

Their report begins with noting that when it comes to copying files, the Internet has proven a game-changer. While the photocopier, audio cassette tape and VCR allowed users to make good quality copies of various media, these devices lacked a in-built distribution method. The world-wide web changed all that.

Distribution method or not, the entertainment industries have opposed all these technological inventions out of fear that their businesses would be crushed. This is not the right response according to the Swiss government, which favors the option of putting technology to good use instead of taking the repressive approach.

“Every time a new media technology has been made available, it has always been ‘abused’. This is the price we pay for progress. Winners will be those who are able to use the new technology to their advantages and losers those who missed this development and continue to follow old business models,” the report notes.

The government report further concludes that even in the current situation where piracy is rampant, the entertainment industries are not necessarily losing money. To reach this conclusion, the researchers extrapolated the findings of a study conducted by the Dutch government last year, since the countries are considered to be similar in many aspects.

The report states that around a third of Swiss citizens over 15 years old download pirated music, movies and games from the Internet. However, these people don’t spend less money as a result because the budgets they reserve for entertainment are fairly constant. This means that downloading is mostly complementary.

The other side of piracy, based on the Dutch study, is that downloaders are reported to be more frequent visitors to concerts, and game downloaders actually bought more games than those who didn’t. And in the music industry, lesser-know bands profit most from the sampling effect of file-sharing.

The Swiss report then goes on to review several of the repressive anti-piracy laws and regulations that have been implemented in other countries recently, such as the three-strikes Hadopi law in France. According to the report 12 million was spent on Hadopi in France this year, a figure the Swiss deem too high.

The report further states that it is questionable whether a three-strikes law would be legal in the first place, as the UN’s Human Rights Council labeled Internet access a human right. The Council specifically argued that Hadopi is a disproportionate law that should be repealed.

Other measures such as filtering or blocking content and websites are also rejected, because these would hurt freedom of speech and violate privacy protection laws. The report notes that even if these measures were implemented, there would be several ways to circumvent them.

The overall suggestion the Swiss government communicates to the entertainment industries is that they should adapt to the change in consumer behavior, or die. They see absolutely no need to change the law because downloading has no proven negative impact on the production of national culture.

Aside from downloading, it is also practically impossible for companies in Switzerland to go after casual uploaders. In 2010 the Supreme Court ruled that tracking companies are not allowed to log IP-addresses of file-sharers, making it impossible for rightsholders to gather evidence.

Mr Trade In · 20-12-2011 12:07AM

I am surprised Enda even knows what the internet is, I would have thought he would be more interested in the cabbage report or the local Mayo moonshine boys club.

amacca · 20-12-2011 12:11AM

Dartz wrote: »

Jaysus, we're going to need to build a bigger wall so to line all these bastards up against.

yet again China has stolen a march on us where it counts

damn them an their "Great Wall"....we only have the east wall.

msg11 · 20-12-2011 12:13AM

eoferrall wrote: »

Same wonderful internet that produced justin beiber? if that is the revolution then count me out - rubbish music is rubbish no matter where it comes from.

Record companies should embrace the web and have the song available for download on a trial basis - if you like you pay, if not you delete. must be a way of doing that easily without too much 'spying' on your computer. like the trail file can only be played 10 times.

This is how I use online music, if i like I buy the actual album (in a sale or something). and I buy more than I used to, paying 20+ for an album and hearing one song of it was too risky in the 'old days' so never bothered as too often I bought album and the single was the only good song.

reward the good artists and no money to crap artists. works for me.

Or how about a site that has a flat monthly fee. Download the ****e out of what you want. If you want music you pay 20$ a month, if you want music and films you pay 30$ a month or something along them lines, best of all it's all legal.

Sheeps · 20-12-2011 12:15AM

Ciaran0 wrote: »

They do today, but before torrenting they made the majority of their money through album sales. Torrenting ripped the music industry to shreds!

Yeah, it ruined the music industry just like audio tapes and CD burners.

msg11 · 20-12-2011 12:16AM

One other thing I am angry about, there is far more serious bills that need to be passed into law, the one regarding puppy farms is top of my list. Also I think there is one on emergency services workers been attacked on the duty.

antodeco · 20-12-2011 12:17AM

number10a wrote: »

This being Ireland, it won't be designed properly anyway so it won't work unless you go to http://www.download-pirate-illegal-music.com/ or such similar blatantly obvious websites.

That link doesn't appear to be working...

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:21AM

Millicent wrote: »

Sorry, Chuck but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here. I'm a writer and I have had my intellectual property stolen before. I am not privileged in any way. I bust my (proverbial!) balls trying to earn a living off what I enjoy. It sucks massively to have someone then take that work, that is my intellectual property, that I have stressed over, researched, poured a massive amount of energy into, and basically say "nyoink! That's mine now."

How did that happen if you don't mind answering? I would have thought that given the law as it currently stands it shouldn't be too hard to safeguard your rights? Unless of course it was a professor/tutor stealing a student's thesis for publication, as we all know that's endemic and blind eyes are turned on both sides, plenty of back scratching etc!!

Ciaran0 · 20-12-2011 12:28AM

Sheeps wrote: »

Yeah, it ruined the music industry just like audio tapes and CD burners.

Ah no in fairness, torrenting can't be compared to burning cds in terms of badness for the music industry. Torrents are like AIDS to record labels, burning cds is a cough and a cold.

Stuxnet · 20-12-2011 12:30AM

Millicent wrote: »

Sorry, Chuck but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here. I'm a writer and I have had my intellectual property stolen before. I am not privileged in any way. I bust my (proverbial!) balls trying to earn a living off what I enjoy. It sucks massively to have someone then take that work, that is my intellectual property, that I have stressed over, researched, poured a massive amount of energy into, and basically say "nyoink! That's mine now."

they didnt take it... they may of infringed on your copyright....its not stealing...this is the problem, even the authors dont understand... ... :cool:

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:32AM

Mr Trade In wrote: »

I am surprised Enda even knows what the internet is, I would have thought he would be more interested in the cabbage report or the local Mayo moonshine boys club.

That's right, it's all because he's a culchie - you'd never see a city lad make a complete ****-up of the country would you??

As for why the govt are doing this:

"EMI sought an injunction against UPC, ordering it to block access to websites that allowed illegal downloading. While the court found that EMI’s rights were breached, Mr Justice Peter Charleton pointed out that he could not grant the injunction as the Copyright Act did not provide for this remedy"

and

"Mr Justice Charleton pointed out that such a provision was needed to bring the Republic’s legislation into line with EU law"

and

"EMI Ireland recently warned the Government that it would take legal action against the State if the Government did not address the problem"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1219/1224309259318.html?via=mr

So they don't really have any option, is it really such big deal? If you still want to download, apparently it's not really that big an hurdle to cross.

msg11 · 20-12-2011 12:38AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

So they don't really have any option, is it really such big deal? If you still want to download, apparently it's not really that big an hurdle to cross.

It's a big deal in the sense that the government should be doing better things with there time than pissing around over some law that some music company is not happy with.

Do you really think Joe down the road with no job and his mortgage in arrears wants to hear that the government have finally sorted out the law regarding illegal downloading? We have serious problems at the moment this is not one, yet it is getting top class priority over things like unemployment and criminals running amuck.

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:38AM

Ciaran0 wrote: »

Ah no in fairness, torrenting can't be compared to burning cds in terms of badness for the music industry. Torrents are like AIDS to record labels, burning cds is a cough and a cold.

But do record companies actually add value. Is it really a bad thing for musicians to see the back of the record industry as it currently stands (or at least did for the past 30/40 yrs)?

We've always had musicians and always will, the record company was short lived industry that took advantage of the opportunity new technologies offered it, if it fails to keep up with advancing technology then that industry will be consigned to the scrap heap - it's happened many industries, why should this one be protected (and I think most people know that it's futile even trying), in order that some consumers can continue to pay over the odds whilst the industry rakes in the last few quid from its dying cash cow.

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:40AM

msg11 wrote: »

It's a big deal in the sense that the government should be doing better things with there time than pissing around over some law that some music company is not happy with.

Do you really think Joe down the road with no job and his mortgage in arrears wants to hear that the government have finally sorted out the law regarding illegal downloading? We have serious problems at the moment this is not one, yet it is getting top class priority over things like unemployment and criminals running amuck.

I agree with you, but in this instance I think it's sensible to take steps to protect the state from being sued and bring it into line with EU law.

Millicent · 20-12-2011 12:44AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

How did that happen if you don't mind answering? I would have thought that given the law as it currently stands it shouldn't be too hard to safeguard your rights? Unless of course it was a professor/tutor stealing a student's thesis for publication, as we all know that's endemic and blind eyes are turned on both sides, plenty of back scratching etc!!

The good old internet. :pac: Seriously, it's very easily done. Something's published online, it gets copied and pasted verbatim and Bob's your uncle, your article/poem/short story whatever is on another site. You can try to have it taken down but in the end, it's often an awful lot of hassle, frustration and annoyance for little to no result. Add to that, different laws in different countries, the open legal question about what jurisdiction the complaint comes under -- the plagiarised person's, the plagiariser's or the hosting site -- and you're in for a massive headache. If actually printed, it would be much easier to sort out as you have, literally, a paper trail; no such joy on the net.

It's also quite hard to prove copyright infringement in a lot of cases as you can't copyright an idea, only the execution. If someone changes *just enough* of your work, they can argue that it's their own effort and you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise, even when you know it.

E-books too are making it easier too to lift massive chunks of text, with plenty of books uploaded to torrent sites. Double-edged sword. It's great to have a bigger platform but it's not without its downfalls.

Mr Trade In · 20-12-2011 12:45AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

That's right, it's all because he's a culchie - you'd never see a city lad make a complete ****-up of the country would you??

As for why the govt are doing this:

"EMI sought an injunction against UPC, ordering it to block access to websites that allowed illegal downloading. While the court found that EMI’s rights were breached, Mr Justice Peter Charleton pointed out that he could not grant the injunction as the Copyright Act did not provide for this remedy"

and

"Mr Justice Charleton pointed out that such a provision was needed to bring the Republic’s legislation into line with EU law"

and

"EMI Ireland recently warned the Government that it would take legal action against the State if the Government did not address the problem"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1219/1224309259318.html?via=mr

So they don't really have any option, is it really such big deal? If you still want to download, apparently it's not really that big an hurdle to cross.

NO NO NO, It's because he is a cabbage head himself.

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:46AM

Just a quick point on that Swiss study - brilliant stuff. Definitely an advantage of being ex-EU.

Millicent · 20-12-2011 12:48AM

Stuxnet_Duqu wrote: »

they didnt take it... they may of infringed on your copyright....its not stealing...this is the problem, even the authors dont understand... ... :cool:

That's a semantic difference and those arguing otherwise are either wilfully misconstruing it or have never had their work misappropriated. I really don't understand how people can argue that the unauthorised use of someone else's material isn't stealing. It's taking someone else's property without permission, albeit in a replicated form; that to me is stealing.

Ciaran0 · 20-12-2011 12:48AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

But do record companies actually add value. Is it really a bad thing for musicians to see the back of the record industry as it currently stands (or at least did for the past 30/40 yrs)?

We've always had musicians and always will, the record company was short lived industry that took advantage of the opportunity new technologies offered it, if it fails to keep up with advancing technology then that industry will be consigned to the scrap heap - it's happened many industries, why should this one be protected (and I think most people know that it's futile even trying), in order that some consumers can continue to pay over the odds whilst the industry rakes in the last few quid from its dying cash cow.

Yeah I agree completely. I think it's great that's it's all changing. I'm a musician myself, and personally I have no problem with torrenting. For me anyway, it'll be a great way of publicising myself and getting my music out there. And I hold onto the unlikely belief that one day all music will be free anyway.

Isn't the world a much nicer place when we all share?

Glenbhoy · 20-12-2011 12:49AM

Millicent wrote: »

The good old internet. :pac: Seriously, it's very easily done. Something's published online, it gets copied and pasted verbatim and Bob's your uncle, your article/poem/short story whatever is on another site. You can try to have it taken down but in the end, it's often an awful lot of hassle, frustration and annoyance for little to no result. Add to that, different laws in different countries, the open legal question about what jurisdiction the complaint comes under -- the plagiarised person's, the plagiariser's or the hosting site -- and you're in for a massive headache. If actually printed, it would be much easier to sort out as you have, literally, a paper trail; no such joy on the net.

It's also quite hard to prove copyright infringement in a lot of cases as you can't copyright an idea, only the execution. If someone changes *just enough* of your work, they can argue that it's their own effort and you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise, even when you know it.

E-books too are making it easier too to lift massive chunks of text, with plenty of books uploaded to torrent sites. Double-edged sword. It's great to have a bigger platform but it's not without its downfalls.

I suppose my query is really whether the other bugger made money off your work that would have otherwise been earned (or potentially) by you?

On the bright side, once bitten eh?

Mr Trade In · 20-12-2011 12:49AM

Why is piracy wrong in cases like this, look at it this way if you continue to pay €15 upwards for albums then big record companies will continue to sign the X-Factor trash like Swagger Jagger slapper for fcuking hundreds of thousands of euros, dollars or 30 pieces of Silver.

msg11 · 20-12-2011 12:52AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

I agree with you, but in this instance I think it's sensible to take steps to protect the state from being sued and bring it into line with EU law.

While no one wants that happening at all, the government should have told them to take a back seat we have our own money issues to sort out first.

The record company's need to change the way they distribute there music in fairness. It's so flawed, there giving out about downloading, yet I can watch a music video perfectly legally online for free? Like am I missing something here? I know YouTube pay them per play, so have they though that maybe we should continue this way.. People are not parted with there cash easily online, too be successful on the internet, the service must be free and revenue brought in from other means. Like have a free video stream of the song, even album. Options at the side to order a hard copy, order a ticket to an up coming gig, tee shirts, LPs.. For god sake, we are in an era where you can pay a bill in the petrol station !

Record company's need to step back and realize the revenue stream and hold they once had is long gone, there wasting time and money on a battle they won't win.

Millicent · 20-12-2011 12:53AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

I suppose my query is really whether the other bugger made money off your work that would have otherwise been earned (or potentially) by you?

On the bright side, once bitten eh?

Sad thing is, you can be forever shy but it won't stop your work being nicked!

And the other bugger did. The monetary aspect is only one part of the aggravation; having someone potentially get kudos for your work is infuriating. But that's off the thread topic.

msg11 · 20-12-2011 12:56AM

Millicent wrote: »

having someone potentially get kudos for your work is infuriating. But that's off the thread topic.

That I don't agree with at all, praise off another persons back. It's like these cover versions, people lacking there own character. Why go too the effort of changing the beat and style yet keep the same words and sing it badly. Another topic altogether .

Celly Smunt · 20-12-2011 12:58AM

They can do this when i can find every C.D i want in a record shop.

or whenever they want,i dont really mind.

Millicent · 20-12-2011 12:59AM

msg11 wrote: »

That I don't agree with at all, praise off another persons back. It's like these cover versions, people lacking there own character. Why go too the effort of changing the beat and style yet keep the same words and sing it badly. Another topic altogether .

Actually, I prefer when it's a reinterpretation rather than a straight cover. If you're going to do it, at least put your own mark on it. But yep, OT.

k.p.h · 20-12-2011 02:16AM

More important things going on these days anyway, if they aint making enough money selling Cd's any more they can do like everyone else and go do fecking something else .. The real reason sales have dropped is because everyone if flat broke ... ... And if you aint making money selling whatever your selling be it from downloading or what be it, go do something else ... ...

Jesus these fcukers are just too thick to diversify...

Jev/N · 20-12-2011 02:29AM

Seachmall wrote: »

Law can't pass. ISPs will tell the courts to Fuck Off.

Just about to post up the case mentioned here - I doubt this piece of legislation will be able to be enforced through the courts vis-a-vis internet copyright issues due to the Scarlett v SABAM EU ruling on blocking/filtering

D_murph · 20-12-2011 02:39AM

From the article...

Official figures show that CD sales in the Republic fell from €146 million in 2006 to €56 million last year.

Did they not notice that the country has gone into a massive recession since then and that thousands of people have lost their jobs? Of course not, it just has to be 100% down to illegal downloading :rolleyes:.

People can be blind to the facts when they want to :rolleyes:.

bridget84 · 20-12-2011 04:29AM

D_murph wrote: »

From the article...

Did they not notice that the country has gone into a massive recession since then and that thousands of people have lost their jobs? Of course not, it just has to be 100% down to illegal downloading :rolleyes:.

People can be blind to the facts when they want to :rolleyes:.

When they mention CD sales,do they mean physical copies? If so, have they not heard of itunes?

Irish Government is set to censor the internet

Comments