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Why do men have nipples?

  • 10-12-2011 07:59PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,022 ✭✭✭


    I got a knock on the door this morning from a couple of Jehovah's Wittnesses (Although they didn't admit to being JWs until i asked them, they only called themselves "True Christians". The aul JW name must have a bad rep these days), considering I live in the middle of nowhere it was fairly surprising.

    Anyway, they started their spiel and I interrupted them and told them that everyone in the house is either atheist or agnostic, thinking that that would put them off and get rid of them. This actually made them even more determined to have a go at me about Jesus and his pals.

    He started with some nonsense claiming that the bible knows everything because of such things as one passage that claims the earth isn't flat, (no-one really thought the earth was flat anyway) and other nonsense about jews quarantining their sick and washing their hands because they were told about bacteria and germs from their god.

    Then he starting talking about how the human body is the perfectly designed machine and that evolution is a scam. I asked him that if that was the case, to try and explain how we have things like goosebumps or a tailbone. He couldn't really answer so I explained it to him and told him maybe he should get a kid's biology book and have a bit of a read. I think this made him a bit thick so he says:

    "Well explain to me why humans have hair then?"
    "Probably to keep up warm"

    He didn't really like that so he tried to change the subject. I didn't want to so I asked him really quickly

    "So why do men have nipples if the body was intelligently designed?"

    His answer is probably the funniest, most empty-headed excuse for a grasp-at-anything, on the spot answer I've ever heard. I'm still laughing at how ridiculous it is:








    "Because they look nice"


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Oooooh, matron!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    This is the first time on Boards that I've actually been tempted to say 'LOL.'

    But I'm not going to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,590 ✭✭✭theteal


    Kudos to you, sir, kudos. I may be stealing that one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭SillyMcCarthy


    Oh my dear God!
    It's because when we are created our sex hasn't been determined
    until later in the process so I guess it's a fail safe mechanism.


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Oh my dear God!
    It's because when we are created our sex hasn't been determined
    until later in the process so I guess it's a fail safe mechanism.
    Sex is determined at conception, by which sex chromosomes you get (XX or XY). Body development however does take awhile and it seems the female form is produced until male development kicks in, resulting in nipples being formed.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Men can also lactate from said nipples. True story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭[-0-]


    Sarky wrote: »
    Men can also lactate from said nipples. True story.

    Isn't that your party trick? :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Oh, not just at parties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,838 ✭✭✭✭3hn2givr7mx1sc


    A chest with no nipples would look quare as fúck in fairness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,022 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    baz2009 wrote: »
    A chest with no nipples would look quare as fúck in fairness.

    Ah that's only because it's the norm.


    If men didn't have nipples it would make boobs more amazing :pac:


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    baz2009 wrote: »
    A chest with no nipples would look quare as fúck in fairness.
    I guess that's what Joel Schumacher thought before making Batman Forever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Men were given nipples so that nipple-clamps would have somewhere to go. (Intelligent design by a sex obsessed creator ?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    the Aka Pygmy tribe in central Africa, where fathers suckle their children when the mothers are away. Not all of the men lactated
    Man Milk
    My curious quest to breast-feed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,240 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    All God’s chillun got nipples. And for a good reason.

    Everyone, male and female, has a pair of chromosomes, a random one of which they donate to each child they begat. A woman has two X chromosomes so, regardless of which of her chromosomes she donates to her child, the child will get an X chromosome from her. A man, however, has an X chromosome and a Y chromosome. If he donates his Y chromosome then the child will have an X chromosome from the mother, and a Y chromosome from the father, and will be male. If, however, the father donates an X chromosome, the child will have two X chromosomes, and will be female.

    This leads to the somewhat counterintuitive conclusion that, whether we are male or female, we have all inherited our sex from our fathers. Which, in turn, means that the male genome must contain the template of the female genome. Hence the nipples.

    In short, if men didn’t have nipples, then neither would their daughters. And then where’d we be?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 orathaic


    @Peregrinus, i don't think that's exactly how the genetics works out...

    As women have two X chromosome, then they have two copies of all the genes on each chromosome - one copy inherited from each parent.

    Sure they don't have any Y chromosome, and thus lack the information to create male offspring on their own - this is more like a lack of information, because the Y chromosome actually looks like a X with one of the legs missing.

    The 'male genome' is not so different from the female one, but it is not a set of templates, it is more like a set of if...then statement, instructions to build a human, not different templates. And both males and females are created with very similar if...then statements, you could all but one of the statements being identical...

    The fact that it is more complicated that just one difference, is amply demonstrated by the fact that there are so many different inter-sex conditions. For example people with XY chromosomes who happen to have a mutation which means they are insensitive to testotorone, and thus developed as if they were female instead of male...

    Their bodies appear entirely female, and they are likely raised as females, but if you only looked at their gene you'd assume they were male.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,240 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I realise it's an oversimplification, and it was a bit of a joke. I could have made the point the other way around, pointing out that every man has an X chromosome inherited from his mother.

    The underlying point is that men and women are not two separate species, and that sex-linked characteristics which confer an evolutionary advantage mainly in one sex - e.g. nipples - are just as advantageous whether they occur exclusively in women, or in both women and men.

    As it happens, the genes which express themselves in the growth of nipples express themselves in men also. Nipples are not as useful to men as to women, but they are some use - they are secondary sex characteristics, and can be a source of sexual gratification - and the fact that they are not as important to men as they are to women is no reason why we should expect natural selection against a nipple gene which expresses in both sexes, and in favour of one which expresses in women only.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    If you go read the article attached above, and a few more attached to that ;-), it would appear that men have nipples for reasons similar to women - to suckle newborns. The male of the species, it a seems, rarely makes milk but the suckling has benefits when the mother is not about.
    It is something I have often pondered as I breastfed my son these past few months. When you see the exquisite beauty of the feeding system of humans, the efficiency and simplicity of it, then it is no leap to think that the nipples on men have to have a use. for a tired, cranky infant, I am sure that a daddy nipple would do for a little while until mommy got home.
    It is for me another example of the beauty and miraculous nature of humans, we have more the enough wonder to be getting on with in our own bodies and planet to be worrying about the mood swings of some supernatural being.
    can't see him indoors doing it, tho!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    He didn't really like that so he tried to change the subject. I didn't want to so I asked him really quickly

    "So why do men have nipples if the body was intelligently designed?"

    His answer is probably the funniest, most empty-headed excuse for a grasp-at-anything, on the spot answer I've ever heard. I'm still laughing at how ridiculous it is:








    "Because they look nice"

    That my friend, is a gay jehova.
    He's gonna burn, baby, burn.
    Myself, i'm a big fan of the lady version, the male version is in all honesty fairly pointless (excuse the pun)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice



    Then he starting talking about how the human body is the perfectly designed machine and that evolution is a scam. I asked him that if that was the case, to try and explain how we have things like goosebumps or a tailbone. He couldn't really answer so I explained it to him

    What did you tell him?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,022 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    That my friend, is a gay jehova

    Well he had his son with him. I felt sorry for him forced to go around doing that ****e with his aul fella. Even he was having a hard time not laughing at the crap his dad was coming out with though, so there's hope for him yet.
    What did you tell him?

    :confused: Like I said, I explained the former function of goosebumps, and the coccyx.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice


    Can you explain to me the former function of the coccyx and 'goosebumps'?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,022 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    The internet is your friend


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice


    No, you're the expert. You were able to explain and pontificate the scientific proof of evolution based on 'goosebumps and tail bones' I'd like to hear your treatise. Are you not confident your treatise will stand up to scrutiny? Or are you only able to perform in front of soft headed adolescent Jehovah's witnesses?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,022 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    Jaysus, someone's on the rag today.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Sid_Justice, maybe he (understandably) couldn't be arsed typing it all out here for your delectation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Dades wrote: »
    Sid_Justice, maybe he (understandably) couldn't be arsed typing it all out here for your delectation?

    So you just take it on faith that he knows?!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    No, you're the expert. You were able to explain and pontificate the scientific proof of evolution based on 'goosebumps and tail bones' I'd like to hear your treatise. Are you not confident your treatise will stand up to scrutiny? Or are you only able to perform in front of soft headed adolescent Jehovah's witnesses?

    Coccyx

    It is believed that in humans and other tailless primates (e.g. great apes) since Nacholapithecus (a Miocene hominoid),[4][5] the coccyx is the remnant of a vestigial tail, but still not entirely useless;[6] it is an important attachment for various muscles, tendons and ligaments — which makes it necessary for physicians and patients to pay special attention to these attachments when considering surgical removal of the coccyx.[2] Additionally, it is also a part of the weight-bearing tripod structure which act as a support for a sitting person. When a person sits leaning forward, the ischial tuberosities and inferior rami of the ischium take most of the weight, but as the sitting person leans backward, more weight is transferred to the coccyx.[2]

    The anterior side of the coccyx serves for the attachment of a group of muscles important for many functions of the pelvic floor (i.e. defecation, continence, etc.): The levator ani muscle, which include coccygeus, iliococcygeus, and pubococcygeus. Through the anococcygeal raphé, the coccyx supports the position of the anus. Attached to the posterior side is gluteus maximus which extend the thigh during ambulation.[2]

    Many important ligaments attach to the coccyx: The anterior and posterior sacrococcygeal ligaments are the continuations of the anterior and posterior longitudinal ligaments that stretches along the entire spine.[2] Additionally, the lateral sacrococcygeal ligaments complete the foramina for the last sacral nerve.[7] And, lastly, some fibers of the sacrospinous and sacrotuberous ligaments (arising from the spine of the ischium and the ischial tuberosity respectively) also attach to the coccyx.[2]

    An extension of the pia mater, the filum terminale, extends from the apex of the conus, and inserts on the coccyx.
    [edit] Structure

    The coccyx is usually formed of four rudimentary vertebrae (sometimes five or three). It articulates superiorly with the sacrum. In each of the first three segments may be traced a rudimentary body and articular and transverse processes; the last piece (sometimes the third) is a mere nodule of bone. The transverse processes are most prominent and noticeable on the first coccygeal segment. All the segments are destitute of pedicles, laminae and spinous processes. The first is the largest; it resembles the lowest sacral vertebra, and often exists as a separate piece; the last three diminish in size from above downward.

    Most anatomy books wrongly state that the coccyx is normally fused in adults. In fact it has been shown[8][9] that the coccyx may consist of up to five separate bony segments, the most common configuration being two or three segments.
    [edit] Surfaces

    The anterior surface is slightly concave and marked with three transverse grooves that indicate the junctions of the different segments. It gives attachment to the anterior sacrococcygeal ligament and the Levatores ani and supports part of the rectum.The posterior surface is convex marked by transverse grooves similar to those on the anterior surface, and presents on either side a linear row of tubercles, the rudimentary articular processes of the coccygeal vertebrae. Of these, the superior pair are large, and are called the coccygeal cornua; they project upward, and articulate with the cornua of the sacrum, and on either side complete the foramen for the transmission of the posterior division of the fifth sacral nerve.
    [edit] Borders

    The lateral borders are thin and exhibit a series of small eminences, which represent the transverse processes of the coccygeal vertebrae. Of these, the first is the largest; it is flattened from before backward, and often ascends to join the lower part of the thin lateral edge of the sacrum, thus completing the foramen for the transmission of the anterior division of the fifth sacral nerve; the others diminish in size from above downward, and are often wanting. The borders of the coccyx are narrow, and give attachment on either side to the sacrotuberous and sacrospinous ligaments, to the coccygeus in front of the ligaments, and to the gluteus maximus behind them.
    [edit] Apex

    The apex is rounded, and has attached to it the tendon of the Sphincter ani externus. It may be bifid.
    [edit] Sacrococcygeal and intercoccygeal joints

    The joints are variable and may be: (1) synovial joints; (2) thin discs of fibrocartilage; (3) intermediate between these two; (4) ossified.[10][11]
    [edit] Pathology

    Injuring the coccyx can give rise to a condition called coccydynia.[12] [13] A number of tumors are known to involve the coccyx; of these, the most common is sacrococcygeal teratoma. Both coccydynia and coccygeal tumors may require surgical removal of the coccyx (coccygectomy). One complication of cocygectomy is a coccygeal hernia.[14] Fortunately, most cases of coccyx pain respond well to nonsurgical treatment, such as medications given by local injection (often done under fluoroscopic guidance).

    Goosebumps

    Goose bumps, also called goose flesh, goose pimples, chill bumps, chicken skin, funky spots, Dasler Bumps, chicken bumps or the medical term cutis anserina, are the bumps on a person's skin at the base of body hairs which may involuntarily develop when a person is cold or experiences strong emotions such as fear, nostalgia, pleasure, awe, admiration or sexual arousal.[1]

    The reflex of producing goose bumps is known as horripilation, piloerection, or the pilomotor reflex. It occurs in many mammals besides humans; a prominent example is porcupines, which raise their quills when threatened, or sea otters when they encounter sharks or other predators.

    Etiology

    The "goose bumps" (also "gooseflesh", "goosepimples" or "chicken skin") effect gets its name from geese. Goose feathers grow from stores in the epidermis which resemble human follicles. When a goose's feathers are plucked, its skin has protrusions where the feathers were, and it is these bumps which the human phenomenon resembles. The term "goose bumps" is misleading because the bumps on a goose's skin do not qualify as piloerection, though birds do have the same reflex of extending their feathers out, a function that keeps them warm.

    It is not clear why in English the particular fowl goose was chosen, as most other birds have this same anatomical feature. Some authors have applied "goose bumps" to the symptoms of sexually-transmitted diseases.[2] Certainly being "bitten by a Winchester goose" was a common euphemism for syphilis[3] in the 16th century.[4] "Winchester geese" was the nickname for the prostitutes of South London,[5] licenced by the Bishop of Winchester in the area around his London palace.

    However, this seductive etymology does not explain why other languages use the same bird as English. "Goose skin" is used in German (Gänsehaut), Italian (pelle d'oca), Russian (гусиная кожа), Polish (gęsia skórka), Czech (husí kůže), Danish (gåsehud) and Hungarian (libabőr). In other languages, however, the "goose" may be replaced by other kinds of poultry. For instance, "hen" is used in Spanish (piel de gallina), Portuguese (pele de galinha), Romanian (piele de găină) and French (chair de poule). "Chicken" is used in Dutch (kippenvel), Chinese (雞皮疙瘩, lit. lumps on chicken skin), Finnish (kananliha), Afrikaans (hoendervleis) and Korean (닭살, daksal). In Hindi/Urdu it is called rongtey khade ho jaana. The equivalent Japanese term, 鳥肌, torihada, translates literally as "bird skin". In Arabic, it is called kash'arirah, in Hebrew it is called simply "duck skin" (עור ברווז).

    The same effect is manifested in the root word "horror" in English, which is derived from Latin horrere, which means "to bristle", and "be horrified", because of the accompanying hair reaction.
    [edit] Anatomy and biology

    Goose bumps are created when tiny muscles at the base of each hair, known as arrectores pilorum, contract and pull the hair erect. The reflex is started by the sympathetic nervous system, which is responsible for many fight-or-flight responses.

    As a response to cold: in animals covered with fur or hair, the erect hairs trap air to create a layer of insulation. Goose bumps can also be a response to anger or fear: the erect hairs make the animal appear larger, in order to intimidate enemies. This can be observed in the intimidation displays of chimpanzees,[6] in stressed mice[7] and rats, and in frightened cats. In humans, it can even extend to piloerection as a reaction to hearing nails scratch on a chalkboard, listening to awe-inspiring music,[8] or feeling or remembering strong and positive emotions (e.g., after winning a sports event).[9] Some people have learned to will goose bumps at any time they please.[10]

    Piloerection as a response to cold or emotion is vestigial in humans. As we retain only very little body hair, the reflex now provides no known benefit.

    In humans, goose bumps are strongest on the forearms, but also occur on the legs, neck, and other areas of the skin that have hair. In some people, they even occur in the face or on the head.

    In humans, the areolas of the breasts of females typically show piloerection because of hormonal distribution, for example, when aroused or inside the maternity cycle.[citation needed]

    Piloerection is also a classic symptom of some diseases, such as temporal lobe epilepsy, some brain tumors, and autonomic hyperreflexia. Goose bumps can also be caused by withdrawal from opiates such as heroin. A skin condition that mimics goose bumps in appearance is keratosis pilaris.
    [edit] Cause
    [edit] Extreme temperatures

    Goosebumps can be experienced in the presence of cold temperatures. The stimulus of cold surroundings causes the tiny muscles attached to each hair follicle to contract. This contraction causes the hair strands to literally "stand on end." At the same time, the tiny muscles that are contracting are causing a "bunching" of the skin surrounding the hairs, which results in the "bumps" in goosebumps.

    In winter, when people get cold outside, they can experience goosebumps. This is the body's way of preserving its own heat by causing the hairs on the skin to stand up, thus reducing heat loss. Goosebumps are often seen in conjunction with shivering in these instances.

    Ironically, people also get goosebumps when they are hot, or in the presence of extreme heat. The main reason for this is sweat. As the perspiration accumulates on the skin, it naturally evaporates. As the sweat evaporates, it cools down the skin surface. As this process occurs, a dramatic temperature difference occurs and the body responds to the "chill" of the evaporation of the sweat and the "goosebump response" kicks in.
    [edit] Intense Emotion

    People often say they feel their "hair standing on end" when they are frightened or in awe. Another intense emotional situation that can cause goosebumps is the "fight or flight" response the body can employ in an extremely stressful situation. As the body prepares itself for either fighting or running, it floods the system with adrenalin, the chemical that speeds up heart rate and metabolism in the presence of extreme stress.[11]

    The fight-or-flight response pulls the physiological trigger. When sensing danger, the sympathetic nervous system floods the blood with epinephrine, a hormone that raises the body temperature and primes it for a physical fight. “The sympathetic nervous system also causes a reflex called piloerection, which makes the muscles attached to the base of each hair follicle contract and force the hair up,” says Horatio Wildman, MD, an assistant professor of dermatology at Cornell University. Goose bumps cause the hairs to stand up – just as porcupines raise their quills when threatened. When piloerection occurred in our hairy ancestors, it made them appear larger to enemies and kept them warm. Over the millennia, we lost the fur but not that reflex. Goose bumps do not make hair grow.
    [edit] Music

    Canadian researchers have suggested that when we are moved by music our brains behave as if reacting to delicious food, psychoactive drugs, or money.

    The pleasure experience is driven by the chemical dopamine, which has been linked to addiction. It produces physical effects known as "chills" that cause changes in the skin's electrical conductance, heart rate, breathing and temperature. The responses correlate with the degree to which people rate the "pleasurability" of music.

    The new research has shown that dopamine release was greatest when listeners had a strong emotional response to music. "If music-induced emotional states can lead to dopamine release, as our findings indicate, it may begin to explain why musical experiences are so valued,” wrote the scientists.[12]

    There you go, I can't believe I typed all that out in 57 seconds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    You can milk just about anything with nipples...... I have nipples Greg, Can you milk me??


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Can you milk me??
    Ah, but can the De'Longhi Pump EC152 Espresso Coffee Machine use your milk to make cappucino?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    robindch wrote: »
    Ah, but can the De'Longhi Pump EC152 Espresso Coffee Machine use your milk to make cappucino?

    I dont know, I've never been milked, let alone someone try use milk from my nipples for a savory caffeine drink....


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