Diarmuid Martin, lapsed Catholics should have the maturity to leave the church.

the culture of deference · 10-12-2011 02:15PM #1

Todays delusional message from the fools of the one true church.

Correct me if I am wrong but you can never leave the church once they get you.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/archbishop-urges-lapsed-catholics-to-leave-the-faith-2959884.html

The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has urged the country's lapsed Catholics to have the maturity to leave the church.

Over the past two decades, rising numbers of 'a la carte' Catholics simply turn up at the altar for the sacraments like baptism, communion and marriage.

But in a new documentary on the future of the church, priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from their flock in the future. It shows how church pews swell to almost full capacity for celebratory sacraments, while Sunday services have dwindling numbers.

Archbishop Martin urged non-believers to walk away from the church.
He said: "It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it'."

Fr Michael Drumm, from the Catholic Schools Partnership, said the church would be getting firmer with parents looking to have their children baptised as a Catholic.

Archbishop Martin also said the church was anxious to start parting ways from some of its Catholic schools.

"It can't be done overnight. There is still a very strong demand for Catholic education."

My name is URL · 10-12-2011 02:21PM

Was he referring to officially leaving the catholic church or just about not partaking in & attending special services like communion, confirmation, weddings etc?

tayto lover · 10-12-2011 02:23PM

He should put his own house in order first.
What about all the priests and even the Cardinal who broke their vows to God?
Are they also being asked to leave?

ToddyDoody · 10-12-2011 02:24PM

Three words. Pay. Us. Off.

MrMatisse · 10-12-2011 02:24PM

For those looking to do as there told:

http://www.countmeout.ie/

There you go.

Print off the form, send it in and your out:cool:

O h hang on, they blocked that so we cannot leave!

How do we do it so Diarmuid?

Skid · 10-12-2011 02:26PM

MrMatisse wrote: »

For those looking to do as there told:

http://www.countmeout.ie/

There you go.

Print off the form, send it in and your out:cool:

That process is suspended.

Despite what dopey Diarmuid claims, once they get you, you have no way to leave unless they excommunicate you.

My name is URL · 10-12-2011 02:27PM

"It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it'."

I really don't see the problem with what he is saying there.. which amounts to if you don't believe in God, then don't engage with the church at any level.

People are simply looking for something to be pissed off about here.

St.Spodo · 10-12-2011 02:27PM

Tried leaving it months ago, they changed canon law and now you can't. Once a catholic, always a catholic!

Biggins · 10-12-2011 02:28PM

Can't leave if they wanted to - the cnuts cancelled the process.

I wish someone would give their legal services for free, I will sign up in a flash to challenge their revoking of ways to leave.

Cnuts have you in their corrupt org, they REFUSE to let you out officially.

Biggins · 10-12-2011 02:29PM

Skid wrote: »

...Despite what dopey Diarmuid claims, once they get you, you have no way to leave unless they excommunicate you.

What does it take to get excommunicated then? I'll fcuking do it!

philologos · 10-12-2011 02:29PM

the culture of deference wrote: »

Todays delusional message from the fools of the one true church.

Correct me if I am wrong but you can never leave the church once they get you.

That's not delusional.

As a non-Catholic I admire Diarmuid Martin, he's been one of the more vocally critical figure of what has gone on in the RCC.

This is good sense. If you don't hold to the principles of Roman Catholicism why would you go to a Roman Catholic church? Statements like this are good for encouraging people to probe into their belief systems and decide for themselves whether or not they want to follow them, or reject them.

As a Christian, I long for other people to discover who Jesus is and what He has achieved for mankind for themselves rather than following mere tradition, and as a result I wholeheartedly support what he's said.

slavetothegrind · 10-12-2011 02:31PM

the arrogance of the man to equate attendance to his criminal church institution with belief and faith in god.

Skid · 10-12-2011 02:33PM

Biggins wrote: »

What does it take to get excommunicated then? I'll fcuking do it!

http://atheism.about.com/od/ideasforatheistactivism/a/Excommunication.htm

A few ideas here!

Biggins · 10-12-2011 02:33PM

philologos wrote: »

...I wholeheartedly support what he's said.

He's a stupid bollox!
He says this schite and either (a) he KNOWS people can't officially leave or (b) he don't know people can't leave - and if he is that uninformed, what in gods name is he doing in such a technical position as his, if he is that stupid!

Bannasidhe · 10-12-2011 02:34PM

Biggins wrote: »

What does it take to get excommunicated then? I'll fcuking do it!

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/articles/easy-steps-excommunication

As of 1983 there are nine canons under which excommunication can take place. Five of them only apply to priests or bishops. One of the others is physically attacking the pope, and criminal acts can hardly be recommended. Another is 'violation of sacred species', normally called desecrating a consecrated host. It is hard to imagine doing this without committing a criminal act; and it would certainly deeply offend almost everybody. Next to last is 'procuring of abortion'. Excommunication for this is supposed to be automatic, but it only applies to the doctor and the woman involved. I am told the church does not seek out such cases. In any case one would hardly choose an abortion solely for the sake of excommunication. It may pay to mention any active work you have done on behalf of making access to abortion safe and legal, and any work you have done help women procure abortions. Recently, the church mentioned that it does consider such work to be and excommunicatable offence, but that it will not seek offenders out. Thus, by contributing a small amount to an organization, like Planned Parenthood, or Global Population Concern, or helping out at any women's medical clinic which offers contraceptive and abortion services, you can easily make yourself eligible for excommunication. Otherwise, there is canon 1364, Â©1 Apostasy, heresy, or schism. This involves automatic excommunication, if you can convince the church that it applies to you. The most common usage of this canon is when a former Catholic embraces another religion. Obviously, if you are now a Muslim, a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, you are automatically no longer a Catholic. It is your task to convince the church that you, as an atheistic secular humanist, (or whatever) are in the same 'non-Catholic' category as a Muslim or Buddhist. In your favor is a nineteenth century ruling which stated that ":those who make a public renunciation of all religion may be subsumed under this category [apostates]." You will need to write a letter to your current parish. It should include the necessary information to meet all of the criteria for deserving to be excommunicated. You may also present this to your birth parish, if this is convenient.

dceire · 10-12-2011 02:34PM

MrMatisse wrote: »

For those looking to do as there told:

http://www.countmeout.ie/

There you go.

Print off the form, send it in and your out:cool:

O h hang on, they blocked that so we cannot leave!

How do we do it so Diarmuid?

I managed to do this just in time then, I even got a letter from my Bishop explaining the consequences; marriage, funerals, etc.

What have they changed that means it's no longer possible?

the culture of deference · 10-12-2011 02:36PM

philologos wrote: »

That's not delusional.

This is good sense. If you don't hold to the principles of Roman Catholicism why would you go to a Roman Catholic church? Statements like this are good for encouraging people to probe into their belief systems and decide for themselves whether or not they want to follow them, or reject them..

This is exactly what I was thinking when at the age of 3 weeks old I decided that the RCC was the one for me.

I CAN NEVER LEAVE

Mike 1972 · 10-12-2011 02:37PM

If there were still a suitable exit process in place he might have had a point but........

Skid wrote: »

Despite what dopey Diarmuid claims, once they get you, you have no way to leave unless they excommunicate you.

Isint apostasy supposed one of the grounds for excommunication ?

In that case isint it time they got their fingers out of their altar boys @r$€;s and get busy dealing with the considerable backlog of excommunicating which needs to be done ?

But in a new documentary on the future of the church, priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from their flock in the future.

Giving that weddings in particular rank among their more profitable rackets theyd be pretty stupid to rock the boat too much on this one (even if their failure to do so makes the hypocricy pretty much double-sided) In all probability the most theyll do is a half @r$€;d comprimise requiring four weeks of church attendance prior to "the big day" as is the practice in parts of England, Poland and elsewhere.

slavetothegrind · 10-12-2011 02:43PM

The sooner their influence, and religeous education is outlawed from state funded schools the better.
Then you wouldn't have so many lapsed catholics forced to baptise their children in order that they are not made to feel different in school come communion time.

Then you have a true congregation of believers and you win too Diarmud!!!!

googsy · 10-12-2011 02:44PM

Where do excommunicated people get buried ?

If there was a way of leaving that didn't require me to do something like walk into a church full of mass goers and rock a piss on the statue of jesus for desecration reasons I'd love to leave...

Jimoslimos · 10-12-2011 02:45PM

Biggins wrote: »

What does it take to get excommunicated then? I'll fcuking do it!

Not a lot, summarised pretty well by Dara.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVNZFylTdo

orourkeda · 10-12-2011 02:46PM

Biggins wrote: »

Can't leave if they wanted to - the cnuts cancelled the process.

I wish someone would give their legal services for free, I will sign up in a flash to challenge their revoking of ways to leave.

Cnuts have you in their corrupt org, they REFUSE to let you out officially.

That more unlikely than leaving the church smoothly

Biggins · 10-12-2011 02:46PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/articles/easy-steps-excommunication

:mad:

The Act of Apostasy allows someone to declare themselves an apostate to the faith, i.e. one who rejects Christian teachings. Canon Law stipulates that an apostate to the faith automatically incurs a latae senteniae excommunication. In response to the 16 Acts of Apostasy which were sent to the Archdiocese of Dublin in June 2011, a spokesperson stated that they would not be accepted. Furthermore, it was stated that excommunication does not mean that somebody is no longer a member of the church."

So the reality is the church is much like "The Hotel California", you can try check out anytime you want, but you never ever get to leave!

From a post someone else says after the news item.

TheZohanS · 10-12-2011 02:46PM

The Catholic Church: Believe or GTFO!

The Catholic Church: Jesus welcomes Everybody Regardless of Faith; But We Think You're A Cnut!

slavetothegrind · 10-12-2011 02:47PM

googsy there is this boghole near me and it is legendary for not giving up it's dead.....

i'll do you a special rate;)

the culture of deference · 10-12-2011 02:47PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I really don't see the problem with what he is saying there.. which amounts to if you don't believe in God, then don't engage with the church at any level.

People are simply looking for something to be pissed off about here.

yeah, but you are still counted as a catholic in their annual membership figures.

philologos · 10-12-2011 02:48PM

Biggins wrote: »

He's a stupid bollox!
He says this schite and either (a) he KNOWS people can't officially leave or (b) he don't know people can't leave - and if he is that uninformed, what in gods name is he doing in such a technical position as his, if he is that stupid!

I don't see what this has to do with Diarmuid Martin. Call him whatever you like.

His statement is good. The RCC's position on people leaving is daft. It means that one can campaign vigorously against Roman Catholicism while simultaneously being a Roman Catholic. That's a paradox. I think Diarmuid Martin probably appreciates this much too, but he'd have to be asked about it.

He's one of the people in the RCC heirarchy that I admire.

the culture of deference wrote: »

This is exactly what I was thinking when at the age of 3 weeks old I decided that the RCC was the one for me.

I CAN NEVER LEAVE

You can't leave according to the RCC's teaching. Why do you care about the RCC's teaching if you weren't a Roman Catholic?

For all intents and purposes if you don't go to church, and if you reject Roman Catholicism and go to another faith, or reject faith entirely it is clear to anyone that you are not a Roman Catholic.

Hearing what some of the RC's on the Christianity forum say about alacarte Roman Catholics I would probably say that they believe that people can leave the RCC even if the Vatican has something else to say on the matter.

I don't see why I should have a negative opinion of Diarmuid Martin because the Vatican happens to think one thing and he clearly another as far as I see it.

There are a number of things in the RCC that I disagree with, and I can't envision myself ever formally being involved in the RCC, but that doesn't mean that I have to have a negative opinion of everything that is in it, or every person that happens to be involved in it.

If you're wondering if I were to put my own colours to the mast it would be the Evangelical / Reformed perspective of Christianity.

John Doe1 · 10-12-2011 02:49PM

How about all catholics are rounded up and given their own island of the coast of greenland

slavetothegrind · 10-12-2011 02:51PM

careful now....or it'll be off to the christianity forum with this thread...

Biggins · 10-12-2011 02:51PM

philologos wrote: »

I don't see what this has to do with Diarmuid Martin. Call him whatever you like.

His statement is good. The RCC's position on people leaving is daft. It means that one can campaign vigorously against Roman Catholicism while simultaneously being a Roman Catholic. That's a paradox. I think Diarmuid Martin probably appreciates this much too, but he'd have to be asked about it.

He's one of the people in the RCC heirarchy that I admire.

His statement is full of holes given that people can't leave!
With the crap he's once again coming out which CLEARLY conflicts with actual reality, it show once again just what an out of touch tool he is!

As one other poster to the paper said:

What an arrogant bastard! Not believing in this church does not make one a non-believer in God.

My name is URL · 10-12-2011 02:52PM

Some amount of stupidity in this thread, it has to be said.

Diarmuid Martin, lapsed Catholics should have the maturity to leave the church.

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