Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

mike65 · 05-12-2011 11:29PM

Carroll out. For whatever the club can get for him. Its not working now and it won't work in the future, he doesn't fit. Liverpool need another will-o the whisp not a carthorse.

K-9 · 05-12-2011 11:30PM

doc_17 wrote: »

8 points behind Spurs who also have a game in hand on us.

In fairness, the way Spurs are playing, favourites for 3rd and outside title challengers.

It wasn't a bad performance, just unlucky. Carroll isn't a striker who hovers 3 or 4 yards from goal, some of the balls going in are based on that. I'd play Kuyt up front if that's the way the team is going to play.

It's very early days to be writing of 4th, but its going to be very difficult. Unless Spurs collapse, Chelsea and Arsenal are the main rivals.

Turtyturd · 05-12-2011 11:32PM

mike65 wrote: »

Carroll out. For whatever the club can get for him. Its not working now and it won't work in the future, he doesn't fit. Liverpool need another will-o the whisp not a carthorse.

Agree with this...I was all for giving him time to try and find his feet but it's taking the piss at this stage.

05-12-2011 11:34PM

I actually thought we played alright, very attacking at times.

Henderson put in a good shift imo. He's impressing me more and more with every game.

Thought the red card was maybe harsh but when your feet are high the risk is always there to see a red card. 3 game ban now for Spearing.

The result is very disappointing but the way we are playing and the style of play is quality at times.

Carroll did ok, holding up the ball etc. Only thing lacking is goals from him.

Tusky · 05-12-2011 11:34PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Firstly, we're not half way at 14 games through season.....wait till we're at 19 games for that.

That was a typo. Should have said 'almost' half way.

Secondly, do you really expect Liverpool to win every game? We've had a good run and there is no need to over-react after one away defeat when the game could have gone either way.

No, of course I dont expect us to win every game. And I'm not reacting to just today's result, but rather to all of the poor results this season against much weaker opposition. Theres absolutely no benefit in playing out of your skin against Man City, Chelsea etc and then lowering your game against the likes of Fulham and their ilk. Theres no excuse for it either.

I think Kenny sends teams out to win every time but people have to realise how poor they were when he took over and how much development he has to do.

I don't think the team (in terms of the squad) was all that poor when Kenny took over and in a sense, he showed that when got the team playing good stuff for most of the remainder of the season. We were in a false position when he took over. My problem is that we havent really pushed on since then.

Look at the stats for our attackers this season (all comps) - it makes for really poor reading.

Suarez: 16 appearances / 7 goals
Carroll: 15 / 3
Rodriguez: (?) / 3
Bellamy: 10 / 2
Kuyt: 15 / 1
Henderson: 17 / 1
Downing: 14 / 0 (and 0 goals in a further 9 games for England)

Couldnt find accurate ones for Maxi. Where are the goals going to come from? We basically need Carroll to find his feet immediately or the race for 4th will be over painfully early.

TheTownie · 05-12-2011 11:35PM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Jesusss lads, get a grip.
You are rebuilding, same as Chelsea, its going to take time and Kenny isnt finished yet. Like Chelsea, you have a few good players who are worth rebuilding around, Johnson, Suarez, Enrique etc, some new ones still finding their feet. You've just lost Lucas, which is like Chelsea losing Mata or City losing Silva.
I'm sure Kenny knows that Suarez just needs a good partner and will go shopping in Jan.
You could still easily finish 4th
Long way to go yet

While its still early and a lot can change the one certainty this season is, there is nothing easy about finishing in the top 4 !

No complaints with the rest of what you said....

Blatter · 05-12-2011 11:36PM

K-9 wrote: »

In fairness, the way Spurs are playing, favourites for 3rd and outside title challengers.

The bookies would have Chelsea favorites ahead of Spurs to finish in the top 4 tbh. Spurs have been very very lucky with regards getting little or no injuries to their first choice starting 11.(which is a very good first 11)

I would be very surprised to see them continue in their current form for the rest of the season, I think they'll slide but should get top 4 as they've put themselves in an excellent position.

A lot will depend on injuries and that's the same with Arsenal. I do think Chelsea have too much to finish outside the top 4.

donfers · 05-12-2011 11:36PM

a goalkeeping error for their goal

our usual battering of the woodwork

a goal ruled off for offside

dempsey gets a yellow for sticking his head into bellamy twice, goes on to score

spearing gets a red for playing the ball

we get awarded a free kick and senderos gets a yellow for a challenge that may have been in the box and was possibly a red and senderos went on to commit more fouls

some of those issues were debateable but they all went against us...every single one so we didn't have the rub of the green BUT as usual we aren't good enough to make a dodgy ref redundant

we create chances, we pile the pressure on and we look decent defensively so we are 80% of the way there BUT we lack bigtime in the most important area, having the composure to take your chances

Downing remains on 0 goals and 0 assists (he looked good tonight when he came on but overall has been disappointing)

Carroll was poor and is looking like more and more of a disasterous flop of a transfer with each passing game, he badly needs to stop the rot but I can't see it and he affects our style of play, it's looking like an awful kneejerk decision by comolli/dalglish to sign the guy when he was flavour of the month, I rememeber being disgusted on the day that we paid about twice what I thought he was worth and although I want him to come good and want to give him a chance, so far he is doing a great job of proving the doubters right, signed a year ago and still failing to deliver

Henderson is winning me over in recent games, working his socks off in the middle, neat and tidy on the ball and fair play to him for "doing a Lucas" and responding to early criticism by putting in huge effort and workrate and a fair bit of quality too

we won't get CL unless we sign a top striker and defensive midfielder minimum and possibly a right winger too

yes, we have been unluck with decisions and goalkeepers and woodwork but we make those issues important by not being good enough to make them unimportant - we have a good team but we're not quite good enough at the moment, fix it in January Kenny or we'll be without CL for another year

05-12-2011 11:42PM

Carroll hate is out again, I thought he did ok again tonight.

J. Marston · 05-12-2011 11:43PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I actually thought we played alright, very attacking at times.

Henderson put in a good shift imo. He's impressing me more and more with every game.

Thought the red card was maybe harsh but when your feet are high the risk is always there to see a red card. 3 game ban now for Spearing.

The result is very disappointing but the way we are playing and the style of play is quality at times.

Carroll did ok, holding up the ball etc. Only thing lacking is goals from him.

What exactly is ''etc'' though? Holding up the ball and....?

Crazy Horse 6 · 05-12-2011 11:43PM

We need a finisher. Also Carroll is not a terrible player he just could'nt be arsed. His heart is'nt in it the way it was at Newcastle and unless he shapes up by the end of the season we are gonna have to get rid. I do wonder whats going on with Maxi behind the scenes.

Crazy Horse 6 · 05-12-2011 11:45PM

Cataleya Calm Sorcerer wrote: »

Carroll hate is out again, I thought he did ok again tonight.

Don't think it's hate he's just a better player than he's showing at present. Needs to knuckle down get a haircut and stop fcking around.

Blatter · 05-12-2011 11:45PM

Cataleya Calm Sorcerer wrote: »

Carroll hate is out again, I thought he did ok again tonight.

You thought he did ok tonight? By what standards, a Sunday league player?

Seriously, he was awful tonight in comparison to the other Liverpool attackers. He wasn't even close to the wavelengths of Suarez, Bellamy, Adam, Henderson and Downing when he came on.

05-12-2011 11:48PM

J. Marston wrote: »

What exactly is ''etc'' though? Holding up the ball and....?

Holding up the ball, laying it off and linking up well.

He's becoming a scapegoat when Liverpool don't win, despite not even playing badly

.

Reminiscent of the Lucas days..

mike65 · 05-12-2011 11:51PM

Blatter wrote: »

Seriously, he was awful tonight in comparison to the other Liverpool attackers. He wasn't even close to the wavelengths of Suarez, Bellamy, Adam, Henderson and Downing when he came on.

This is the nub of the matter for the club, its not something that can be taught in my opinion, all players have their own instincts and Carrrolls simply won't dovetail with the above players, no matter how many hours are spent in training working on it. Come the game the dynamic changes and either you are on the same wavelength or your ain't and Carroll ain't.

The financial hit would be substantial but a one off event, the cost of persisting looks like being rather higher.

Tusky · 05-12-2011 11:56PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Holding up the ball, laying it off and linking up well.

He's becoming a scapegoat when Liverpool don't win, despite not even playing badly .

Reminiscent of the Lucas days..

Not really. Lucas was a 19 year old teenager signed on the cheap and asked to play in an unfamiliar position in a new country and new league.

I'm not making a scapegoat of Carroll. I pointed to problems in other parts of the team as well.

The fact is: Liverpool are not scoring goals and it is costing us points. Andy Carroll is not scoring goals. The two problems are linked and its impossible to talk about the situation the team is in without mentioning him. People should be able to discuss the problems in the team without being accused of 'scapegoating'.

Turtyturd · 05-12-2011 11:59PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Holding up the ball, laying it off and linking up well.

He's becoming a scapegoat when Liverpool don't win, despite not even playing badly .

Reminiscent of the Lucas days..

While he is not playing badly, he is not playing well either. and he lacks any sort of interest or urgency, tonight a ball was played in perfectly to the back post for him to attack but instead he barely left the ground and spun around in mid air before falling to the ground instead of busting a gut to get his head on it.

Dont be at yourself · 06-12-2011 12:08AM

We were unlucky today. We played well but too many things went against us.

Henderson played well, and I thought the 3 man midfield worked well.

Up front is a different story. Carroll isn't doing the business, and it's costing us. Suarez was unlucky with the disallowed goal, but he seems really isolated at times. He seems to work best with Bellamy, Maxi or Kuyt, so I'd start him alongside two of those.

Carroll is wrecking my head. Looks increasingly like a mistake. Still, very little to be gained by selling him, certainly not in January. I think the fans need to write him off as our star striker or a £35 million pound player. For the moment, he's a useful squad player.

I hope something is done about our lack of goals in January. Anelka will be on the cheap, but we need a proper out-and-out goalscorer.

SlickRic · 06-12-2011 12:19AM

that was as infuriating a match as we've had this season.

firstly, before the sending off, i thought we just about edged it; not by much, but certainly thought we shaded it. after that, it was uphill, and we lost all control of the game, but more on that in a bit.

i thought we started well, and particularly Carroll i thought was very good in his link-up play. we should have scored in that first little spell, and it let Fulham back into it.

we saw today why Lucas is going to be a big miss, and why we need a DM better than Spearing if we have any aspirations of Europe, and even, the Champions League if that were at all possible. Dempsey and Dembele were having far too much fun in that space that Lucas has dominated for months. that's where our problems in defence lay. also, when we had the ball, Spearing offered little. Henderson did quite well, and Adam was either very good, or poor. it was a weird game for our midfield.

we also didn't get Bellamy and Suarez on the ball enough in good areas. they kept picking it up in their own half - a sign that our midfield just wasn't forceful enough in getting forward with the ball.

also, i hate doing this, but we really didn't get any of the borderline decisions. the Suarez disallowed goal that should have stood (so so close), Bellamy with a ridiculous booking, Dempsey over the course of the game probably deserving to be sent off, and the Spearing challenge which easily could've just been yellow. it wasn't mailcious, it was just a bit overzealous. again, just a borderline decision that could've gone our way. the crowd didn't ask for the red, neither did the players, the fúcking ref just decided to make his mark. that ruined our balance, but i'd have expected us to do a better job of holding out.

also, was it me, but did an ungodly amount of ricochets in the middle of the park put us in bad situations? it really was one of those nights.

Agger, Skrtel, Enrique and Suarez were all good again. Skrtel in particular looks a new man, and all of a sudden is dominating that front post area. the fact we saw nothing of Zamora tells you a lot about how our CBs are doing. Johnson was pretty poor defensively today, i hate the way he just seems to swicth off every so often.

anyway, all in all, nothing to panic about, but we desperately need a CM in January. also, we need goals. Carroll was unlucky, Suarez should've had a goal, and the woodwork continues to screw us over badly. but that's no excuse. part of the problem is we desperately need pace on the wings. or we just need to get the ball there sooner, and in better situations. it's too laboured getting there at times.

Suarez hasn't scored in far too long now as well, he needs to get going (as does Carroll obviously if he's getting decent game time).

anyway, i'm not overly worried, but just very very frustrated. it was one of those games, the ref was a bit of a homer too, and we just didn't have the rub of the green. meh, it happens. but we do need to start taking these games away so that "luck" and "bad decisions" can't be an excuse.

come on Kenny, sort it

slingerz · 06-12-2011 12:27AM

Hoilet and Anelka would be good signings in January. Anelka for the short term

We need goals and they don't seem to be coming from Carroll, Suarez, Bellamy or Kuyt

Hoilet can play as a wide attacking forward and Anelka through the middle. Would give plenty of options to the squad.

If we want to see the best of Carroll then we need to see Downing getting crosses in but it hasn't happened for either of them

Daemonic · 06-12-2011 12:30AM

I thought Carroll started well, as he has done in a few games but if the first chance or 2 don't go in he seems to fade.

NabyLadistheman · 06-12-2011 12:30AM

Small margins here fellas. Linesman seemed to take an age to put the flag up as well

Crazy Horse 6 · 06-12-2011 12:32AM

slingerz wrote: »

Hoilet and Anelka would be good signings in January. Anelka for the short term

We need goals and they don't seem to be coming from Carroll, Suarez, Bellamy or Kuyt

Hoilet can play as a wide attacking forward and Anelka through the middle. Would give plenty of options to the squad.

If we want to see the best of Carroll then we need to see Downing getting crosses in but it hasn't happened for either of them

Good call if Anelka would come but i doubt he would. We really need someone in January so badly up front it hurts. I'd even take Micheal Owen back. >>>>>> Ducks <<<<<<<

Daemonic · 06-12-2011 12:37AM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Good call if Anelka would come but i doubt he would. We really need someone in January so badly up front it hurts. I'd even take Micheal Owen back. >>>>>> Ducks <<<<<<<

Owen is a crock, he'd bump into Aurelio in training and they'd both be out for months. Anelka however could be a decent short term signing.

rossie1977 · 06-12-2011 12:40AM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Good call if Anelka would come but i doubt he would. We really need someone in January so badly up front it hurts. I'd even take Micheal Owen back. >>>>>> Ducks <<<<<<<

adam morgan couldn't be any worse than carroll at this stage

YouTookMyName · 06-12-2011 12:43AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

adam morgan couldn't be any worse than carroll at this stage

This. Deserves a chance.

Macker1 · 06-12-2011 12:44AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Holding up the ball, laying it off and linking up well.

He's becoming a scapegoat when Liverpool don't win, despite not even playing badly .

Reminiscent of the Lucas days..

All I can say is £35 million should get you a lot more. It was a real Celtic Tiger economy buy. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

argosy2006 · 06-12-2011 12:46AM

If someone was crazy enough to offer 15 million for carroll in jan, would we take it ,Everton or Stoke might like him

Jayob10 · 06-12-2011 12:46AM

YouTookMyName wrote: »

This. Deserves a chance.

Adam Morgan has been excellent for the Under 18s but has not been as effective at reserve level to be brutally honest.

Not writing him off, just saying he is far from ready for the first team. If he took his form to reserve level then he would be worth a shot. But he hasn't, not yet anyway

bookie basher · 06-12-2011 12:47AM

i think darren bent is the obvious player to sign, good finisher & his pace & heading ability is good too

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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