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Ravens found to use "hand" gestures to communicate

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  • 30-11-2011 12:37pm
    #1
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,142 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭


    Some pretty remarkable findings about ravens have surfaced. Probably our most intelligent native bird (if not animal ful stop) here in Ireland. If you're ever out hilwalking you're nearly garaunteed to spot some.

    raven1.jpg

    I was aware corvids were generally extremely intelligent, they've been recorded using basic tools in the wild and in controlled laboratory tests. THere's videos on youtube of them shaping pieces of wire into hooks to get food out of containers and the like. What makes this discovery so interesting is it was behaviour apparently unique to primates!
    Ravens use their beaks and wings much like humans rely on our hands to make gestures, such as for pointing to an object, scientists now find.

    This is the first time researchers have seen gestures used in this way in the wild by animals other than primates.

    From the age of 9 to 12 months, human infants often use gestures to direct the attention of adults to objects, or to hold up items so that others can take them. These gestures, produced before children speak their first words, are seen as milestones in the development of human speech.

    Dogs and other animals are known to point out items using gestures, but humans trained these animals, and scientists had suggested the natural development of these gestures was normally confined only to primates, said researcher Simone Pika, a biologist at the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Seewiesen, Germany. Even then, comparable gestures are rarely seen in the wild in our closest living relatives, the great apes — for instance, chimpanzees in the Kibale National Park in Uganda employ so-called directed scratches to indicate distinct spots on their bodies they want groomed.

    Still, ravens and their relatives such as crows and magpies have been found to be remarkably intelligent over the years, surpassing most other birds in terms of smarts and even rivaling great apes on some tests.

    "[What] I noticed when I encountered ravens for the first time is that they are, contrary to my main focus of research, chimpanzees, a very object-oriented species," Pika said. "It reminded me of my childhood, when my twin brother and I were still little and one of us suddenly regained a favorite toy, which existence both of us had forgotten for a little while. This toy suddenly became the center of interest, fun and competition. Similar things happen, when ravens play with each other and regain objects."


    Click here for the full article: http://www.livescience.com/17213-ravens-gestures-animal-communication.html


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    Its really is amazing how intelligent corvids can be.
    Ive always wondered how they could be so clever and have a fairly small brain. They must have very efficient decision making parts of their brains, maybe they dont have good memory or lack something else as a result?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Its really is amazing how intelligent corvids can be.
    Ive always wondered how they could be so clever and have a fairly small brain. They must have very efficient decision making parts of their brains, maybe they dont have good memory or lack something else as a result?
    They do have a very good memory. Experiments have been done where people have interfered with corvids' nests and not only did the birds remember who had tampered with their nests and mob them, but they taught their family and friends to do it too. Corvids hold grudges for generations :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    I knew a guy who shot and killed a magpie once, only to be pestered and harrassed by (he claims) nearly 30 magpies. He said they all seemed to be able to communicate with each other to say point out that he was to blame for the death of the other magpie.
    It seems like they have good communication, since magpies normally pay little attention to humans and they must have been signalled to follow him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭aidoh


    Good find Mickeroo.
    I've a two rooks in my garden who always fly over when I'm near the bird feeder. I guess they associate me with peanuts. It's cool though, because all the other birds disappear but the rooks seem to know I'm not going to eat them.
    ...yet


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Just been looking up on wikipedia, turns out I've been calling my local rooks, crows for years :o
    Been mixing up crows with jackdaws too...


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  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,142 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Just been looking up on wikipedia, turns out I've been calling my local rooks, crows for years :o
    Been mixing up crows with jackdaws too...

    Crow is just a general term for the genus Corvus afaik, so you're not wrong to call them that at all!


  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭aidoh


    Ah sure you could call a magpie a crow the same as you could call a tiger a cat. They're the same family and all. But I used to also think rooks were just called crows and always mixed up jackdaws with hooded crows.
    I'm actually not sure I've ever seen a raven.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    A few weeks ago my train was stopped at cellbridge train station and this is no exaggeration but I saw probably 1000 of them in the sky. It was a curious sight, Ive know about their intelligence for a while. Newbridge town gets taken over by them in the small hours of the night.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Adam Khor


    We have several species here but, they are rather shy around humans... they prefer to live in the forest/mountains away from cities. Amazingly, you see more vultures than ravens around here! :D

    Not surprised at all by this "discovery", though. Most animals are so much smarter than we give them credit for, and ravens are already famous for their wits.


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