Apparently, one quarter of us live in deprivation, but...

conorhal · 01-12-2011 02:25PM

Well, we've replaced poverty with the rather subjective concept of 'relative poverty'. The question as the OP rightly asks is, "relative to what?"

I've heard a few odd whinges lately.

Whinge 1:
A single mother of 3 on RTE complaining about the proposed cut of 10 euro in children’s allowance claimed that she now couldn't put shoes on her teenage sons feet if this cut is implemented. When pressed regarding how much she spends on his shoes, she informs the reporter that her football loving son goes through a pair of trainers about once a month and they cost about 70 euro to replace...
What? Tell the little fecker to be more careful with his bloody trainers. My money doesn't grow on trees.

Whinge 2:
Paddy O' Gorman was interviewing people outside one of the few pawn brokers still operating in Dublin. He interviewed two people, both pawning mobile phones, both on the dole. One laughs and says that it's for holiday money, the other tells him it's to pay for a birthday party for his six yr old son. Now you can practically see Paddy go 'JACKPOT!' if I can't rip the viewers hearts out with this story then I'll eat my dog. So he presses the guy for details, Paddy asks him, "you need the money to buy him a present?". No the bloke replies, I got him a PSP for a present, I just need the cash to pay for the party until my dole comes in.
Paddy O' Gorman is forced to eat his mangey dog.....

Whinge 3: (OK this was in the UK, but I think the point is applicable) Edwina Curry apparently made some crass statement about 'relative poverty' and was invited by the One show to go and talk to a woman and her family who were getting a parcel of food once a week from a local food-bank charity.
Anyway Edwina arrives at a very nice house, leather sofas, 40'' plasma TV on the wall, kids sat in front of it gaming on a PS3 and as soon as she walks in the door she's leapt upon by two bloody huge dogs that looked a bit like Great Danes.
After tolerating the poor mouthing from this woman who claims that her children would go hungry but for charity, Edwina gives her a withering look and asks her "how much a week do you spend feeding those two giant dogs?". The woman starts spluttering about how they are part of the family etc and all you can think is, “I suppose the PS3 and sky package part of the family too?”. The only conclusion that the viewer and certainly Edwina came to is that the woman must have no shame, she’d rather take food charity then make any minor sacrifice to her clearly comfortable lifestyle. Edwina walks out feeling justified and I shake my head and think to myself that, it seems that the only difference between many peoples situation and relative poverty appears to be the ability to prioritize and budget sensibly, and the poverty industry's mission is no longer to provide a safety net for the needy but instead to plug the gap between the middle classes and the middle class tastes of the working class.

amacachi · 01-12-2011 02:29PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno, maybe it's me, but we seem to have redefined "deprived" over the last few decades.

Worn out furniture? Unless the springs are sticking up through the seat of a chair how worn out are we talking about? Just old furniture? Shít I have a chest of drawers that's knocking on 300 years old. Still works(and was cheaper than a new modern knockoff in harvey normans and the like). Actually auctions are good places to pick up solid furniture for fcuk all by comparison to "made in a sweatshop in China and the doors don't close properly, but we've antiqued it up" overpriced tat you find on the high street.

New clothes? I know plenty of people who buy second hand clothes. A few well off ones too. And you have outlet places like tkmaxx if you want new without the daft markup of the labels.

Like you I agree on the home heating and food front and yea if you've a hole in your shoe, literally "down to your uppers" then yes you're deprived alright. Not being able to socialise once a month etc, yea you're not doing well that's for sure, but I find it hard to equate that notion of poverty compared to a guy or gal sleeping rough on the streets of our major cities. Never mind that outside the west half the world will go to bed(if they have one) hungry tonight.

As I said elsewhere, there's only a small number of people in specific scenarios who are what could be called deprived or properly broke in this country. Reform of bankruptcy laws and less than a fraction of a percent of people would be "deprived" other than by choice.

stovelid · 01-12-2011 02:29PM

syklops wrote: »

Its the accent spoken by a northsider.

A northsider of town.

I see.

woodoo · 01-12-2011 02:33PM

Deprivation in ireland = no sky+ with sports package, no sun holiday and anything less than an 08 car in the driveway.

woodoo · 01-12-2011 02:37PM

conorhal wrote: »

it seems that the only difference between many peoples situation and relative poverty appears to be the ability to prioritize and budget sensibly.

If boards had awards for statement of the month you would deserve it for that one.

It seems to be beyond some people though.

Fbjm · 01-12-2011 02:42PM

Actually I completely agree with this article. If you honestly can't afford two of these things, them you're pretty bad off. I know no one in this situation.

amacachi · 01-12-2011 02:42PM

Also anyone who refuses food and will only accept cash from places like SVP are not living in deprivation.

woodoo · 01-12-2011 02:44PM

amacachi wrote: »

Also anyone who refuses food and will only accept cash from places like SVP are not living in deprivation.

I know a girl who used to go begging to these charity outfits at christmas and then would go on the lash.

number10a · 01-12-2011 02:44PM

syklops wrote: »

Anyone else read this in a north sider accent?

Yes but in a Cork northside accent. I don't know what people from the northside of Brno sound like strangely enough.

amacachi · 01-12-2011 02:47PM

woodoo wrote: »

I know a girl who used to go begging to these charity outfits at christmas and then would go on the lash.

I know people who got stuff a few times in the early to mid-nineties. Towards the end they got more each time as so many others wouldn't accept food.

number10a · 01-12-2011 02:51PM

I understand someone wanting to choose their own food rather than being handed a load of food that they mightn't like. But handing cash out isn't the answer either. I used to work in a supermarket when I was in secondary school and the SVP used to put money behind the counter for certain families, but we were strictly instructed by both the SVP and store management that it was not to be used for drink or fags. This would be the best method to follow IMO.

moco · 01-12-2011 02:57PM

number10a wrote: »

I understand someone wanting to choose their own food rather than being handed a load of food that they mightn't like. But handing cash out isn't the answer either. I used to work in a supermarket when I was in secondary school and the SVP used to put money behind the counter for certain families, but we were strictly instructed by both the SVP and store management that it was not to be used for drink or fags. This would be the best method to follow IMO.

Yea, or if there were shopping vouchers that could only be spent on food.

starbelgrade · 01-12-2011 02:59PM

Wibbs wrote: »

And you have outlet places like tkmaxx if you want new without the daft markup of the labels.

I went to TKMaxx once. It was very confusing. It felt like I was shopping in someone else's wardrobe.

amacachi · 01-12-2011 03:03PM

number10a wrote: »

I understand someone wanting to choose their own food rather than being handed a load of food that they mightn't like. But handing cash out isn't the answer either. I used to work in a supermarket when I was in secondary school and the SVP used to put money behind the counter for certain families, but we were strictly instructed by both the SVP and store management that it was not to be used for drink or fags. This would be the best method to follow IMO.

I can understand it too, but when people are getting ****faced or shooting up then crying about their kids starving then food should be good enough. An important thing to remember is that back then there were less bills. Lot of people had no phone and the only bills were electricity and coal/peat in the winter and minimal rent on a council house.
Most of the usual suspects would sell on a voucher for 50-70% of face value to someone sensible enough to buy them.
What does annoy me is that SVP don't seem to do any checks on people's income and spending. I know a single person living alone who is on incapacity benefit. Lives in a house rent-free, gets some free electricity etc. SVP didn't do a lot of checking before filling his oil tank a coupla winters ago.

baddebt · 01-12-2011 03:28PM

number10a wrote: »

I understand someone wanting to choose their own food rather than being handed a load of food that they mightn't like. But handing cash out isn't the answer either. I used to work in a supermarket when I was in secondary school and the SVP used to put money behind the counter for certain families, but we were strictly instructed by both the SVP and store management that it was not to be used for drink or fags. This would be the best method to follow IMO.

food vouchers would be the way to go .......with ability to spend them in any supermarket on non-alcoholic items

moco · 01-12-2011 03:31PM

baddebt wrote: »

food vouchers would be the way to go .......with ability to spend them in any supermarket on non-alcoholic items

Possibly put their name on it and have them produce photo ID to prevent them selling them and keeping the money.

conorhal · 01-12-2011 03:39PM

number10a wrote: »

I understand someone wanting to choose their own food rather than being handed a load of food that they mightn't like. But handing cash out isn't the answer either. I used to work in a supermarket when I was in secondary school and the SVP used to put money behind the counter for certain families, but we were strictly instructed by both the SVP and store management that it was not to be used for drink or fags. This would be the best method to follow IMO.

I'd agree. I read a very dispiriting article last Christmas from a reporter that went out with the SVP to deliver 'Christmas hampers', of course the hamper is not what you would traditionally associate with your notion of a 'hamper', it's just an envelope of cash. apparently nobody wants a food hamper any longer, they can't give them away, literally.
Anyway, with each delivery the reporter arrived on the doorstep to find a house full of people that hardly seemed deprived to him, being that they were sat there in front of their 60 inch LCD TV's watching Sky Sports (the reporter was told not to judge these people for that as such TV's were a status symbol in the area and they would feel shamed if they couldn't have a TV as large as their neighbors, so a giant TV was not reflective of whether or not they were poor) and not one, not one, actually thanked the person from the SVP for their ‘hamper’ they simply snatched it and closed the door, well actually there was one exception, an elderly lady in a threadbare nightie who seemed equal parts ashamed and grateful to the SVP for the money and invited them in for a cup of tea.

There are people in genuine need, like that elderly lady, but there are just as many that view the SVP as just another scam.

Geuze · 01-12-2011 04:18PM

Here is a link to the CSO report on income inequality and poverty

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2010/prelimsilc_2010.pdf

Geuze · 01-12-2011 04:19PM

Table A Summary of main results

2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Income € € € € €

Equivalised disposable income
(per individual) 21,229 23,610 24,380 23,326 22,168

At risk of poverty threshold
(60% of median income) 10,566 11,890 12,455 12,064 10,831

Poverty & deprivation rates % % % % %

At risk of poverty rate 17.0 16.5 14.4 14.1 15.8
Deprivation rate1 13.8 11.8 13.8 17.1 22.5

Consistent poverty rate 6.5 5.1 4.2 5.5 6.2

Ray Palmer · 01-12-2011 04:40PM

There is actually a social pressure in the areas of "poverty" where they actually prioritise certain consumer items over sensible items. I have never subscribed to the living up with the Jones concept but I am amazed at the people who do.

Next time you see a junkie look at his runners, the chances are they are some designer shoes. The junkies actually rate how low a junkie you are based on your shoes! A social worker friend told me this and I didn't beleive her untill I started paying attention.

Iremeber kids from poor families would have tons of Star Wars stuff and I barely had any as my Mam said they were too expensive. My family were a lot better off than their families (I know that now) but part of it was my parents would never waste money in the same way these people did. Weird to be called posh when these people were wearing more expensive clothes and had more toys.

There is no way a quarter of the people are in poverty a lot of it is lies told to the CSO because people are claiming the dole and working.

SteoL · 01-12-2011 04:41PM

syklops wrote: »

stovelid wrote: »

WUT ABT PLASSMA TV, FORIN HOLIDAYS AND NEW CARS ON DOLE.

I WUS BROUGH UP ON BRENNANS BREAD N SUGAR SAMBOS AND WE WER ALWAYS HAPPY

ROFL

**STOVE***

Anyone else read this in a north sider accent?

Yeah but I'm a northsider

hooradiation · 01-12-2011 04:41PM

syklops wrote: »

Im fuppin awesome. Will need pics before I believe the other.

Well spotted and played.

johncdub · 17-04-2012 06:43PM

Hi Guys

I'm currently on a disability payment which has been reduced to E80 per week. The fuel allowance has just ended.

I have no other income, and I'm unable to pay bills. Having had Cancer 2 years ago, I seem to be extremely sensitive to the cold. I've contacted the SV de P. First time in my life. I need to heat my house, as I've been without heat for 2 months. I'm freezing. I've asked for assistance, and I've told them I'll pay them back when back on my feet.

I wondered if anyone else has ever received assistance from SVP? I'm mortified asking for help, but I have no choice. Do they visit your home, ask for proof of bills, bank account?

PM me if you wish.

Thanks

Apparently, one quarter of us live in deprivation, but...

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