Take to The Streets?

MrStuffins · 28-11-2011 12:43AM

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the irish to me are the irish working class, they arent to blame for this mess. the people that caused this are traitors to the irish republic,imo.

Well the people in charge are the people we, the Irish working class, put in power using our democratic rights.

gbee · 28-11-2011 12:44AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well the people in charge are the people we, the Irish working class, put in power using our LIMITED democratic rights.

See, I fixed that for you.

Zebra3 · 28-11-2011 12:45AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Do you realise how tiny 200k a year is when you put it beside the country's annual budget?

Of course I do, what sort of a stupid question is that to ask?

wonderfulname wrote: »

It's even more insignificant beside the national debit, the ridiculous levels of wastage in the public sector and social welfare on the other hand makes up a sizeable amount of money when you're talking on this scale.

Let the pain start at the top. I'm sick of seeing that slimeball Sutherland being given airtime on RTE to demand that poor people suffer cutbacks. Just shows how corrupt the system is. :mad:

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 12:45AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well the people in charge are the people we, the Irish working class, put in power using our democratic rights.

Careful now, nobody likes when you point out that FF weren't heading up a dictatorship.

MrStuffins · 28-11-2011 12:54AM

gbee wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well the people in charge are the people we, the Irish working class, put in power using our [COLOR="Red"]LIMITED [/COLOR]democratic rights.

See, I fixed that for you.

I'm sorry, did someone stop you voting?

Chuck Stone · 28-11-2011 01:00AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well the people in charge are the people we, the Irish working class, put in power using our democratic rights.

We weren't asked if we wanted the banks bailed out.

How many people do you think would have voted yes to a bank bailout if it had went to a referendum?

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 01:02AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We weren't asked if we wanted the banks bailed out.

How many people do you think would have voted yes to a bank bailout if it had went to a referendum?

Did you speak to your local representative about the bail out? Encourage others to? How did they vote?

Zebra3 · 28-11-2011 01:02AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We didn't ask, nor were we asked, if we wanted the banks bailed out.

How many people do you think would have voted yes to a bank bailout if it had went to a referendum?

You'd still probably get 30-35% of the moronic public to do so because "the politicans know best/told us to".

Just look at the turn around on Lisbon. "I'm voting for Lisbon for jobs". That worked out well, didnt it? :rolleyes:

W77 · 28-11-2011 01:03AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I am a sheep. Bah.

Fixed it even more.

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 01:07AM

W77 wrote: »

Fixed it even more.

You you guys have a new version of democracy where you're always right and you ridicule anyone who disagrees with you regardless of what they have to say or what they know on the subject? We already have a name for that kind of system and it doesn't fall into the category of democracy.

So what was the problem with your vote anyway?

Or do you have nothing to add, rather just dislike what some people are saying?

coonecb1 · 28-11-2011 01:09AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

What are you protesting exactly?

These people are cutting back because there's f*ck all money at the moment. What exactly are you hoping will happen if you protest?

Budgets are nothing new my friend!

Maybe you should be asking WHY there's f*ck all money.

The answer is that our Government threw our economic sovereignty under the bus in order to rescue private sector bank bondholders.

The debts incurred from that have bankrupted the country, and the Government are now coming to the most vulnerable in our society, and sticking them with the tab.

You don't get a sense of injustice in that?

dxhound2005 · 28-11-2011 01:12AM

Ally Dick wrote: »

Cuts need to be made but there needs to be fair play around who gets cut. The public service are getting off scott free again with the government's cowardly Croke Park deal. The banksters have gotten off as well. People wouldn't mind cuts if they felt that the politicians, public sector and banksters have taken the hit as well. The old bullsh!t in this country where certain people are protected from the pain, needs to be addressed

Scot is an old word for tax or levy. So public service workers did not get off scot free.

Herb Powell · 28-11-2011 01:13AM

People have taken to the streets worldwide.
But sure they're only dirty, unemployed, weed-smoking hippies.

W77 · 28-11-2011 01:14AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

You you guys have a new version of democracy where you're always right and you ridicule anyone who disagrees with you regardless of what they have to say or what they know on the subject? We already have a name for that kind of system and it doesn't fall into the category of democracy.

So what was the problem with your vote anyway?

Or do you have nothing to add, rather just dislike what some people are saying?

Whomever the political candidates may be, it does not matter. They are all different branches of the same Zionist tree. The outcome of this financial crisis was decided years ago. But telling you people this is just wasting time. You're all sheep beyond belief. So now I just use this site as a means to acknowledge how hopeless we truly are.

MrStuffins · 28-11-2011 01:16AM

W77 wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

I am a sheep. Bah.

Fixed it even more.

Jaysus :rolleyes:

Herb Powell · 28-11-2011 01:16AM

W77 wrote: »

Whomever the political candidates may be, it does not matter. They are all different branches of the same Zionist tree. The outcome of this financial crisis was decided years ago. But telling you people this is just wasting time. You're all sheep beyond belief. So now I just use this site as a means to acknowledge how hopeless we truly are.

LAWL DATWORD AGAIN

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 01:20AM

coonecb1 wrote: »

Maybe you should be asking WHY there's f*ck all money.

The answer is that our Government threw our economic sovereignty under the bus in order to rescue private sector bank bondholders.

The debts incurred from that have bankrupted the country, and the Government are now coming to the most vulnerable in our society, and sticking them with the tab.

You don't get a sense of injustice in that?

Our country is not bankrupt. As a young person my sense of injustice comes from knowing a huge portion of the older generation lived outside of their means and repeatedly and blindly voted for the party that offered the lowest tax rate and best hikes in social welfare, without this ridiculous behaviour we would not be in the same mess we are in now, there is nothing major wrong with our political system, just how the people utilised it.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Scot is an old word for tax or levy. So public service workers did not get off scot free.

And gay is an old word for happy, funnily enough that's not what people think I mean when I use the word. "scot free" in current usage means without punishment or injury, whilst I agree they took a minor hit and "scot free" might not be an entirely accurate assessment the public sector is still sitting pretty in pre-recession Ireland.

coonecb1 · 28-11-2011 01:29AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Our country is not bankrupt. As a young person my sense of injustice comes from knowing a huge portion of the older generation lived outside of their means and repeatedly and blindly voted for the party that offered the lowest tax rate and best hikes in social welfare, without this ridiculous behaviour we would not be in the same mess we are in now, there is nothing major wrong with our political system, just how the people utilised it.

1. Our country is not bankrupt? Would you mind telling that to the IMF/ECB, since if I'm not mistaken we were bailed out by them last November due to being shut out of the bond markets? If that's not bankrupt, what is?

2. You don't see any injustice in taxpayers picking up the debts of private, bankrupt banks? So am I to take it that you approve of the "Privatise the profits, socialise the losses" school of finance?

3. Our current fiscal mess was not caused by "Low tax, high spending". It was caused by the government stepping in to bail out the banking system.

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 01:39AM

coonecb1 wrote: »

1. Our country is not bankrupt? Would you mind telling that to the IMF/ECB, since if I'm not mistaken we were bailed out by them last November due to being shut out of the bond markets? If that's not bankrupt, what is?

You could probably do with looking up the definition of bankrupt

coonecb1 wrote: »

2. You don't see any injustice in taxpayers picking up the debts of private, bankrupt banks? So am I to take it that you approve of the "Privatise the profits, socialise the losses" school of finance?

We had to do something at the time or our economy would be in a lot worse a state than it is now, I agree that a blanket bail out was not the best thing to do, but unless you have a time machine there is sweet shag all we can do about it now.

coonecb1 wrote: »

3. Our current fiscal mess was not caused by "Low tax, high spending". It was caused by the government stepping in to bail out the banking system.

You honestly believe we'd still be living the high life had we not bailed out the banks? Do you perchance remember why we bailed out the banks?

gbee · 28-11-2011 01:43AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

there is nothing major wrong with our political system, just how the people utilised it..

Spoken by someone who, in this post, demonstrates to everyone else, how little is known by the poster of the system the post is referring to.

In short we never had a democracy and we never had a low tax economy and we never had a celtic tiger.

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 01:45AM

gbee wrote: »

Spoken by someone who, in this post, demonstrates to everyone else, how little is known by the poster of the system the post is referring to.

In short we never had a democracy and we never had a low tax economy and we never had a celtic tiger.

Would you care to tell me how I'm wrong instead of just claiming as such with nothing to back you up?

Einhard · 28-11-2011 01:48AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We weren't asked if we wanted the banks bailed out.

How many people do you think would have voted yes to a bank bailout if it had went to a referendum?

If I remember correctly, SF, the ULA, and numerous smaller parties/independents ran on a platform last Spring to repudiate the bank bailout, and renege on the subsequent commitments. So yeah, we did get a democratic choice. How can people so easily ignore reality when it doesn't suit their purposes?

coonecb1 wrote: »

Maybe you should be asking WHY there's f*ck all money.

The answer is that our Government threw our economic sovereignty under the bus in order to rescue private sector bank bondholders.

The debts incurred from that have bankrupted the country, and the Government are now coming to the most vulnerable in our society, and sticking them with the tab.

You don't get a sense of injustice in that?

Actually, the fact that we have spent approx €20 billion a year more than we raised in taxes over the past few years has contributed significantly to our financial woes. Indeed, the cost of the bank guarantee is quite a deal less than the cost of our fiscal profligacy.

coonecb1 · 28-11-2011 01:55AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

You could probably do with looking up the definition of bankruptWe had to do something at the time or our economy would be in a lot worse a state than it is now, I agree that a blanket bail out was not the best thing to do, but unless you have a time machine there is sweet shag all we can do about it now.You honestly believe we'd still be living the high life had we not bailed out the banks? Do you perchance remember why we bailed out the banks?

1. What is Ireland if it's not bankrupt? What exactly is bankrupt country in your view?

2. I'm not saying we shouldn't have bailed out the banks. What I'm saying is that the cause of the crisis wasn't fiscal deficits, it was the banking bailout. You said the mess was caused by low taxes / high social spending. That's just incorrect.

3. NAMA and the bailout of bank bondholders (including 10-20 billion worth of subordinate bondholders) is the biggest transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the private sector in the history of the country. The whole world finds it remarkable how unjust this is. You don't seem to see anything wrong with it at all. Business as usual.

It boggles the mind how someone can be so accepting of what's gone on, and not see anything wrong with it

coonecb1 · 28-11-2011 01:59AM

Einhard wrote: »

Actually, the fact that we have spent approx €20 billion a year more than we raised in taxes over the past few years has contributed significantly to our financial woes. Indeed, the cost of the bank guarantee is quite a deal less than the cost of our fiscal profligacy.

What was the reason for the extra spending over the last few years? It was because of the banking mess! Not exactly run of the mill fiscal irresponsibility. We are not Greece.

starbelgrade · 28-11-2011 02:00AM

Has anyone who has ever started a thread stating how "lazy" we Irish are at protesting ever done anything else beyond complaining about how lazy everyone else is?

Einhard · 28-11-2011 02:05AM

coonecb1 wrote: »

What was the reason for the extra spending over the last few years? It was because of the banking mess! Not exactly run of the mill fiscal irresponsibility. We are not Greece.

Yes it was because of run of the mill fiscal irresponsibility. If one discounts entirely the cost of the bank bailouts, we would still have spent tens of billions more over the past few years than we brought in. FF ran us into the ground fiscally. We're not Greece alright, but that's like saying that someone isn't crazy because they're not as crazy as the craziest person in the asylum!

Fromthetrees · 28-11-2011 02:08AM

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

You'll notice 'our' debt is the highest in the world because we're bailing out banks in other countries who are by multiples bigger than us, it's more than unfair, it's ****ing repugnant. :mad:

wonderfulname · 28-11-2011 02:09AM

coonecb1 wrote: »

1. What is Ireland if it's not bankrupt? What exactly is bankrupt country in your view?

It's not "in my opinion", bankruptcy is an accepted term with an accepted definition, we are still paying our bills therefore we are not bankrupt, you sound like someone who likes to throw about the term "default", to default is to declare bankruptcy.

coonecb1 wrote: »

2. I'm not saying we shouldn't have bailed out the banks. What I'm saying is that the cause of the crisis wasn't fiscal deficits, it was the banking bailout. You said the mess was caused by low taxes / high social spending. That's just incorrect.

Our current situation is due to gross mismanagement of finances by individuals, this state, and others, the bailout would not have come about had it not been for these, and it is not the cause of all our woes.

coonecb1 wrote: »

3. NAMA and the bailout of bank bondholders (including 10-20 billion worth of subordinate bondholders) is the biggest transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the private sector in the history of the country. The whole world finds it remarkable how unjust this is.

This country is tiny and young, the banking sector was large and laxly regulated, as grand as your statement sounds it doesn't actually say much. Show me where the rest of the world is shaking their fists at how unjustly we are being treated.

Stinicker · 28-11-2011 02:23AM

What good will protesting the government doing, they are the fallboy patsys for the mess Fianna Fail left to them, I don't blame the current FG/LAB government for the way the country is and if Fianna Fail were still in power we'd probably be on our 3rd bailout by now.

If people want to protest then fine but make sure it is against the Fianna Fail scumbags you are doing the protesting because they sank the country and people who are giving out about the country now, what the hell did they think? that Enda Kenny had a spare €200billion from his communion money in the credit union to fix the mess? Fianna Fail created this mess and now they have the cheek to blame this government for it. If it wasn't so important to boot them out I'd almost have rather they stayed sellotape their eyelids open and force them to watch this mess and have to take the unpopular decisions that people don't like.

Back in the late seventies and 80's Fianna Fail effectively broke Ireland also, FG came in to clean up the mess and make the unpopular decisions, their thanks? election defeat and like a battered wife the dumb electorate ran back to the crooks in Fianna Fail again after the seeds of recovery planted by FG were starting to sprout.

So if there is a protest, remember who caused this mess committed treason and broke the country.

coonecb1 · 28-11-2011 02:31AM

Einhard wrote: »

Yes it was because of run of the mill fiscal irresponsibility. If one discounts entirely the cost of the bank bailouts, we would still have spent tens of billions more over the past few years than we brought in. FF ran us into the ground fiscally. We're not Greece alright, but that's like saying that someone isn't crazy because they're not as crazy as the craziest person in the asylum!

Sorry, but our national debt didn't really change much in the 10 years to 2007. In fact, we were routinely running budget surpluses up until the banking crisis.

So, your assertions are incorrect.

Take to The Streets?

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